Hacking Debate - Grabbing files from Nintendo's servers illegal?

[DeadlyFoez]

I purchased my Wii 2006 and at that point of time there were no IOS60, IOS70, IOS80 etc. Those IOS have been provided by Nintendo for an optional update.

That is just a load of bull. If your Wii isnt modded you have to update before most games even boots. if you dont - they wont boot.

It's still an option to buy a game or not. You are given the chance to shut off the wii before a disc does an update, and you can refuse the online update during the connection test, so indeed, the updates are optional.

 

[PizzaPino]

How would it be illegal to download files from a publicly accessible server that has no security measure on it?

what if someone's kidnapping your kid in the middle of the park? it is still stealing/kidnapping/raping whatever and illegal.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

what if someone's kidnapping your kid in the middle of the park? it is still stealing/kidnapping/raping whatever and illegal.

Your analogy and the car analogy are fucking stupid when talking about files. There is a big difference between stealing a physical item (in which the original is gone) and copying a file (in which the original is still at the same place).

How would you feel if someone merely just copied your child or your car and you still had the original? I know I would not give a damn at that point. But steal me car or child and I'd be all over you like flies on shit.

Now, this is not me saying that it is OK to download the files from Nintendo's servers, this is me just pointing out that those analogies suck.

 

[WiiUBricker]

Thanks DeadlyFoez, I was just going to tell people to stop with those stupid analogies.

 

[leic7]

I would say that it is certainly unethical. But no hacking of any sort is required to download the files from nus, so I don't see how it could be illegal to download from it.

I know everyone has their own ethics, but I'm just curious to know why you'd consider it unethical?

 

[mike333]

Funny part is that Nintendo pull plug from Wii update servers someday making legitime users very sad.
I guess that will be sooner than latter.

So mirror while You can or figure out how to extract content from update partition on Wii disc.

 

[JoostinOnline]

Funny part is that Nintendo pull plug from Wii update servers someday making legitime users very sad.
I guest that will be sooner than latter.

So mirror while You can or figure out how to extract content from update partition on Wii disc.

You could use WiiXplorer or WUFE to do it.

 

[XFlak]

both of those have already been done for awhile now (edit, beat by Joostin )

I got a question for everyone, do you think it is better, worse, or equally bad to download files from NUS (ie. nus downloader) compared to downloading it from some mirror (ie. the other stickied guide that hosts nintendo files on mediafire or w/e). Personally I think NUS is the lesser of the two "evils".

 

[obcd]

+1
I have more trust in the files on NUS than those on a mirror. (Unless it's modmii downloading them and checking their hash)

 

[DeadlyFoez]

To get around the whole "is it legal" crap, someone could just do an official update, then use wad creator or bluedump to dump the wad files and then use those to make the cios's. Of course, people with korean region changed wii's would get bricked by that move, but just ask me why should I care about them anyways.

Nintendo has had the chance "to pull the plug" on older IOS's, but they are still hosted on the servers for some odd reason. I don't see any need for Nintendo to continue to host outdated files, but they do.

 

[SifJar]

+1
I have more trust in the files on NUS than those on a mirror. (Unless it's modmii downloading them and checking their hash)

ModMii downloads from NUS, not a mirror.

 

[obcd]

I know. It doesn't mean it couldn't change in the future. Why would xflak otherwise post his question?
He probably isn't in a hurry to change those things. Can't blame him for that.

 

[WiiUBricker]

I know. It doesn't mean it couldn't change in the future. Why would xflak otherwise post his question?
He probably isn't in a hurry to change those things. Can't blame him for that.

I don't think Xflak would ever make ModMii download copyrighted Nintendo files from mirrors. When NUS someday die, then ModMii dies too.

 

[XFlak]

I never intend to change from downloading from NUS to some other server. As I said, I think downloading from NUS is definitely the lesser of the two evils (assuming they are "evils" to begin with). I wouldn't even consider it unless NUS stops working and even then I'd be very reluctant to host\download mirrors of ninty files.

I only posed the question because according to the "rules" when I joined gbatemp, it was okay to download files from NUS (or explain how to do so), but not okay to mirror them (or post links to mirrors). With that in mind I wrote ModMii so people could get the files they need without downloading it from some shady\untrusted source.

edit:

I don't think Xflak would ever make ModMii download copyrighted Nintendo files from mirrors. When NUS someday die, then ModMii dies too.

not true, I already have all the files ModMii will ever need saved to my ModMii installation's "temp" folder. So even when I use ModMii now, I don't even need the internet let alone NUS. And I'm sure if NUS dies, one of ModMii's many users will end up sharing a complete ModMii "temp" folder in some form or another (many people already mirror modmii against my wishes, so whether or not I agree with sharing a ModMii "temp" folder I'm sure it will eventually happen if it hasn't already)

 

[WiiUBricker]

Of course. What I was saying is that when NUS die, ModMii can only be (legally) used the complicated way by those who haven't used ModMii in the past. You would have to extract all needed files from discs, but this is not really noob friendly and ModMii is intended to be noob friendly, right? Personally I wouldn't use temp folders of others since the files could have been altered for whatever reason.

Edit: But if those files pass the hash check, then it's something else. So yeah, you are as always right XFlak.

 

[kuwanger]

Nothing like a good debate about copyright...

As pointed out, there's the general point of fair use that exists to download anything on the internet that's not otherwised protected by some sort of authorization scheme--and a EULA or boilerplate web site policy that I never agreed with doesn't count, precisely because it's trivial to invoke conventions like a username/password to sort that out. To wit, Nintendo built a car without locks while the convention is that a car without locks is for public use; A car with a lock with the key glued in would offer greater legal protection for the existence of the lock.

Reverse engineering and modification of a copyrighted work is a-okay, so long as it's done "for personal use". And then you can redistribute those changes as patch files, scripts, etc as a point because anyone who wants to use the patch still has to obtain the copyrighted works first through some legal mean (see above and below). That's why it's okay to distribute new library files for Windows, as an example.

As for mirroring software, that's a no-go because as much as it's a free-for-all to download from Nintendo, it's still Nintendo who has to host the content--the exception being if this "mirroring software" is merely generic caching of all web content, which allows for things like caching proxies and the web archive. Hence, the copyright holder still is the one who is controlling the right to copy because they can pull down their servers at any time or add new restrictions of authorization whenever they wish. They choose to provide the service to everyone by how they configure their hardware. If I choose to run an extension cable from an outside outlet to the sidewalk and make it look like a generic, public outlet, that's my choice and I get to the suffer all the possible negative consequences.

Well, that's all for my armchair legalism, worth a grain of salt and all.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

In the end, why the fuck has no one actually gone and built an IOS from scratch like they did with channels? If someone took the time to do so then that would take anyway anything about using Nintendos code illegally.

Actually, it's kind of shocking that nothing better has been done yet since TT opened up about AHB_PROT.

 

[megazig]

MINI

edit:
and most of the modules I've written have been for things other than to play games and run system software. so they're not going to be a replacement as much as an add-on

 

[DeadlyFoez]

I honestly wish that the wii's potential was opened up even more. It's a shame that the focus is piracy.

If only the more intelligent people would share what they know, and the end users would not take advantage of it.......... but BTW, we live in a selfish world... (until I blow it up and kill everyone )

 

[mike333]

http://www.dailymoti...-interview_news
Kim Dotcom’s first TV interview.

Watch now.

Long story short: Nintendo or any big corporation are doing legal things always, no matter what. You on the other side have right to pay only.