Gaming Could Nintendo give us legal backups?

McHaggis

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Convenience of backup loaders has always been a long standing argument when it comes to games consoles; having all your games immediately at your disposal does make things easy for quickly switching and you don't have to worry about a faulty disc drive or disc. I think this argument applies more so to handheld consoles because there are additional downsides to the format that you can factor in:
  • your handheld can be used in any room of the house, so if you want to switch game it may not be as simple as just walking across the room to get a different game.
  • if you go anywhere you have to take your games with you, meaning you're carrying extra bulk.
  • cartridges are small, and much easier to misplace than discs.
These are the reasons I bought a Cyclo DS Evolution for my original DS, it's so much more convenient to have all the games on a single card and you never need to worry about removing the card from your DS.


Of course, there are even downsides to using those cards:
  • you're breaking the law in many countries.
  • incompatibilities can arise with certain games, or game devs can try and create ways to prevent the games from working with flash cards.
  • you can't immediately update your console's firmware in case Ninty have blocked your cart.
  • there's always the temptation of downloading games instead of buying them, even if you claim to be using the cart for games you own.
So this got me thinking, is there a way that Nintendo could allow us to legally back up our carts to SD? Many DVDs and Blu-Rays now come with a "Digital Copy" in a bid to combat piracy and reward loyal consumers for purchasing genuine products, why can't console manufacturers do the same for us?


There are a couple of seemingly plausible methods I came up with myself:-

Idea 1: Flipping a bit to temporarily disable the cartridge after copying it to the console
"Flipping a bit" is very much an oversimplification, but the theory behind this is that the console would back up the game to SD and encrypt it with (one of) your console's key(s). To stop you from just selling the cart on and keeping the backup, some limitations would be imposed. Specifically, you would choose a predetermined length of time to "arm" the backup, let's say you're going on holiday for 14 days so you choose 14 days. For those 14 days, the cartridge is locked to your 3DS and will not work in another 3DS. After the 14 days are up, the backup stops working and the cartridge starts working again. At any point during or after the locking period, you could insert your card and re-arm the backup without having to copy the whole game over again.

Advantages
  • Prevents abuse by just installing the game on your whole family's console.
  • Long periods of time (e.g. 30 days) could offer a lot of convenience.
Disadvantages
  • Not ideal for families who share games (although technically they're not losing anything, they just don't use the feature).
  • If your console breaks, you can't use the card until the locking period is over.
  • Could introduce retailer issues - imagine someone buying the game, locking it to their 3DS for a month and then declaring the game faulty at the retailer. It's like a free rental.


Idea 2: Free Digital Copy
Cartridge comes with a unique eShop code, very similar to how DVD/Blu-Ray digital copy works. In order to arm your backup, the 3DS connects to the eShop to download a small bootloader for the game. The code can only be used once.

Advantages
  • Could be linked with Club Nintendo accounts/points to work retro-actively with existing games.
  • Same level of convenience as flash carts, never need to mess around with cartridges.
  • Relies on the public-key part of the "master key" pair, meaning this method is less likely to be hacked.
Disadvantages
  • Nothing prevents the owner from selling the cartridge after acquiring the game.
  • Might impact sales for games that require more than cart for multi-player (ie, don't support download play).
To get around the first disadvantage, they could still require the cartridge to rearm the backup once every 30 days, as per idea 1. The only difference is that the cartridge would never lock.

Of course, I know the likelihood of Nintendo actually doing something like this are slim, but any implementation of legal backups would give them several benefits, such as:
  • Fewer people are tempted to break the law by buying flash carts for backups and downloading games as a side effect.
  • They'd reduce the number of hackers interested in creating a backup loader when the console is eventually hacked.
  • There'd be no legitimate reason for piracy software to exist, potentially clearing up grey areas and fully outlawing such software for their console.
So what do you guys think? Do you have any better ideas of how legal backups could be done?
 

indask8

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The second idea "Free Digital Copy" is the best and the most probable.

-Valve/Steam already do this (my PS3 copy of portal 2 came with a steam key to legally download the game on PC, not for the PS3 but still, you have a "backup").

-Some Blue rays come with a voucher to download the film.

But the main problem is... it's Nintendo..., they really don't like the word "free" (what happenned with 3DS is the exception, they were on their knee anyway) :sleep:
 

Cyan

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Your idea 1 has some flaws.

To "swap a bit" in the cartridge and lock it, you need a rewritable memory.
The current rewritable memory is used to store the savegame, and that memory can be reseted with tools like (3)DS card readers.

So, locking the cartridge is not free_renting-proof .



Though, I liked your idea to temporarily transfer the game to the SD.
It could be a limited time, for example a time set by the publisher or the developer.
You need the cartridge again to re-activate the backup's playable period.

You store games on your SD, they are valid for 1 week. either you play them or not is not a problem because you still have the original cartridge to expand that period by one more week.

If you sell the cartridge, then too bad for you, you can't reactivate it unless you buy/rent it again.
Renting/retracting the rent every week can be suspicious.


The downside : You can store one cartridge on many consoles at the same time, to all family and friends.
It could lead to piracy business :/

Another solution :
Activate the play period through eshop. Each cartridge could have a unique markup and eshop only can grant playability period.




The best idea would be to provide all the games on the eshop, cheaper than the cartridge (no plastic material, no booklet to print, etc.).
You buy them and download them at will.
We are on an online era, a lot of users can afford fast downloads.

If you can't afford the download, then buy the cartridge.
 

McHaggis

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Your idea 1 has some flaws.

To "swap a bit" in the cartridge and lock it, you need a rewritable memory.
The current rewritable memory is used to store the savegame, and that memory can be reseted with tools like (3)DS card readers.

So, locking the cartridge is not free_renting-proof .
That's true, and it did occur to me but I wondered if they could do something like lock write access during the time period.

The best idea would be to provide all the games on the eshop, cheaper than the cartridge (no plastic material, no booklet to print, etc.).
You buy them and download them at will.
We are on an online era, a lot of users can afford fast downloads.

If you can't afford the download, then buy the cartridge.
Yeah, I had thought of that, but I'd like both and would be torn between the two. With downloads you're definitely restricted to the game working on a single 3DS and there's no possibility of game sharing. Perhaps an alternative idea would be to allow consumers who buy the cartridge to buy the download version at a severely reduced rate.
 

spinal_cord

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I wouldn't mind it if most 3DS games were available through the eShop. However, I imagine they'd only be savable to the internal storage, meaning there'd be a limit on how many you could get.

Still though, Nintendo probably wont do anything like that, they like their carts and wont give them up easily.
 

jalaneme

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nope, because gaming companies want you to buy the game again and again for profit so they can make as much money as they possibly can from you, just look at the new wiis that can't play gamecube games? we all know the reason for nintendo doing it, so they can charge us again for play them with "HD graphics" and achievements OMG1!!
 

McHaggis

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nope, because gaming companies want you to buy the game again and again for profit so they can make as much money as they possibly can from you, just look at the new wiis that can't play gamecube games? we all know the reason for nintendo doing it, so they can charge us again for play them with "HD graphics" and achievements OMG1!!

Fixed.
 

Psionic Roshambo

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I like the idea of the game being linked to the system, would require some sort of on the cartridge encryption with writable memory... Hardware encryption that could be software written too, so that each carts encryption key is different from the next. The encryption would need to be RSA time based.... So if for instance some one decided to back up the encrypted data and think "Oh now that I have installed the game on my friends system its time to install it on mine from the restored copy!.... Why isn't it working...." due of course to the time stamps on the cart not matching. This would require the addition of a clock and battery in addition to the encryption chip and the flash RAM.

This would be super expensive but it would be pretty much 100% secure, at least I can't think of an easy way around it. Short of cracking the encryption?
 
D

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Locking the 3DS cartridges once the game has been registered to your 3DS?
Once someone makes a homebrew program that would unlock the cartridges, we'd be able to unlock them at will.
 

Janthran

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Locking the 3DS cartridges once the game has been registered to your 3DS?
Once someone makes a homebrew program that would unlock the cartridges, we'd be able to unlock them at will.
Which is why Nintendo take precautions to keep that from happening.
Something like disable that cartridge so that if you've ever connected to WiFi, it knows that specific cartridge shouldn't be run.
 
D

Deleted-236924

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Locking the 3DS cartridges once the game has been registered to your 3DS?
Once someone makes a homebrew program that would unlock the cartridges, we'd be able to unlock them at will.
Which is why Nintendo take precautions to keep that from happening.
Something like disable that cartridge so that if you've ever connected to WiFi, it knows that specific cartridge shouldn't be run.
If you've ever connected to Wi-Fi.
 

McHaggis

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That's why I suggested the idea of time-limited backups that needed re-arming. It would be harder to abuse, because you'd always need the cartridge to re-arm the backup.
 

Janthran

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Locking the 3DS cartridges once the game has been registered to your 3DS?
Once someone makes a homebrew program that would unlock the cartridges, we'd be able to unlock them at will.
Which is why Nintendo take precautions to keep that from happening.
Something like disable that cartridge so that if you've ever connected to WiFi, it knows that specific cartridge shouldn't be run.
If you've ever connected to Wi-Fi.
The 3DS is made for WiFi.
It can also lock the cartridge itself, so you'd have to not connect AND have a way to bypass the lock.
That'd be pretty unlikely.
 

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