Hardware Would dual analog make a difference?

[doeo]

Two analog controllers are quintessential in not only console FPS gaming but gaming in general. The inclusion of a second analog stick should be but a rudimentary introduction to the 3DS controls.

And using the touch screen for FPS, like Metroid Prime, just strained my right hand.

I agree...

So if there was this awesome new 3D game e.g Super Mario Galaxy 3DS, (I know that's never gonna happen -- just an example.) then you'd probably be having more fun running around with the left analog and changing the camera view with the right analog.

 

[Arm73]

You don't really need a second analog slider.
In fact there is a lot of motion sensor and gyroscope technology incorporated to make up for the loss of the second analog and open up even more gameplay experience.
Between motion sensors, and touch screen, do we really need a second analog slider ?
I don't think so.
Besides, having an original control scheme, means developers will have to put some effort in their games and provide us with original content, I'd hate to see PS2 games cheaply ported to the 3DS...............
You either don't play first person shooters, or don't realize how this would benefit gameplay. I guess you'd rather use a thumb stylus to navigate the camera (via touch-screen) on the next Metroid Prime game for 3DS, rather than have a proper control scheme. The true gamer in me beckons for a second analog slider, and I imagine most will agree.

Yeah, just 'cause there's room on the face doesn't mean there's room for it IN the shell

I thought Metroid prime hunters on DS controlled really well, and that didn't even have one analogue stick... So I don't think it's too necessary. The touch screen can act like a mouse, so FPS will still have plenty of control.

It would be cool though.

QUOTE(dhjohn @ Jul 4 2010, 01:07 AM)

I don't see the need, though I'm not big on fps's, so that could be coloring my view.
I will say this though, Metroid Prime 1 and 2 handed great on the gamecube, and they only used one of the sticks for movement.

Look, I play lots of FPS shooters..................on the PC, with a keyboard and mouse.
There is just no other valid alternative to play an FPS.
One that gets close enough would be the pointer abilities of the Wii remote ( but you loose speed and accuracy ) and the other one, even better , is the NINTENDO DS TOUCH SCREEN.
Yes, it might give you cramps and might be uncomfortable to some, but it's undeniably the next best thing after a keyboard and mouse for FPS.
You just get an unprecedented accuracy and speed with the touch screen
Why would I want to sacrifice that for a second analog stick ?
FPS where never meant to be seriously played on a console.
Goldeneye on the N64 was and still is a breakthrough on the genre because had FPS controls tailor made for the uniqueness of the controller.
After that we sort of saw EVERY other FPS on a home console using a dual analog setup, but even games like Metroid Prime , proved that the second analog doesn't really make for a better experience. It is actually awful to control an FPS like this , and it becomes nearly impossible to do so without auto-aiming.
Let me tell you something: Auto-aiming sucks ! ( now go and argue with it, non hardcore FPS player ..).

Also, as I stated before, conveniently having a second analog on the 3DS, would open up the possibility for developers to lazily port games from the PS2 era, no doubt about it.
And it wouldn't be done right anyway.
I'll explain: Most of us have two thumbs

, now if both thumbs are on the analog sliders ( if like you say they should put a second one in it ), then the only other fingers free to perform actions would be the index fingers on both hands.
That might work fine on a Dual Shock like controller with 4 shoulder buttons (L1 L2, R1 R2 ), because you could map basic actions like shooting, duck, jump and weapon selection or secondary fire to it, but on and handled, 4 shoulder buttons are unheard of and at the least very difficult to implement given the nature of the small proportions, therefore you would be left with an half-assed control scheme ported from the days of PS2 with cumbersome combination of thumb, index fingers and touch screen controls to even perform the most basic actions.

My other point is also that ever since the days of the original GB, the difference in screen resolution or control scheme, always forced developers to create new content for Nintendo handled to fully take advantage of the hardware.
And that has been a key in the success of Nintendo and put it currently and more then ever on top of the handled kingdom.
Other contenders where available at the time, like the atari lynx and sega gamegear , but they all failed because they were to ambitious ( besides they were suckers for battery life but that's a different story ) and had such high graphic capabilities ( again compared to the GB ) that developers were simply porting games from home consoles, and that was a huge failure ( even to this days, that's what happens to most PSP games, and that's how the DS is so popular and highly regarded for it's diverse library of original titles not found anywhere else.

So ,these are the facts that lead me to believe that Nintendo are once again on the right track and the 3DS will be even bigger ( in terms of sales and popularity ) then the mighty DS, even without a second analog stick ( and again, for the solely purpose of camera adjusting the motion sensors would make up for it quite egregiously ).

 

[ProtoKun7]

While the E3 design may not be totally final, I think now may be too late to include any relatively drastic changes, such as changes/additions to controls, and changes now may only be to the current controls and their positions, and some design changes.

I'm not saying they definitely won't, but it seems unlikely. Also, the games currently in development stages would need last minute changes to accommodate the extra stick.

 

[Anakir]

I'd prefer a second analog stick. The touch screen doesn't count as a second analog stick to me no matter how you can use it. I physically need the joystick feel to it in order for it to feel legitimate to me. Besides, what if a game uses sensitive inputs and touch screen can only provide digital inputs? It doesn't work out as well. They'll probably be able to program that in the touch screen part but I'd still like the physical feeling of a second analog stick.

 

[AaronUzumaki]

You don't really need a second analog slider.
In fact there is a lot of motion sensor and gyroscope technology incorporated to make up for the loss of the second analog and open up even more gameplay experience.
Between motion sensors, and touch screen, do we really need a second analog slider ?
I don't think so.
Besides, having an original control scheme, means developers will have to put some effort in their games and provide us with original content, I'd hate to see PS2 games cheaply ported to the 3DS...............
You either don't play first person shooters, or don't realize how this would benefit gameplay. I guess you'd rather use a thumb stylus to navigate the camera (via touch-screen) on the next Metroid Prime game for 3DS, rather than have a proper control scheme. The true gamer in me beckons for a second analog slider, and I imagine most will agree.

Yeah, just 'cause there's room on the face doesn't mean there's room for it IN the shell

I thought Metroid prime hunters on DS controlled really well, and that didn't even have one analogue stick... So I don't think it's too necessary. The touch screen can act like a mouse, so FPS will still have plenty of control.

It would be cool though.

QUOTE(dhjohn @ Jul 4 2010, 01:07 AM)

I don't see the need, though I'm not big on fps's, so that could be coloring my view.
I will say this though, Metroid Prime 1 and 2 handed great on the gamecube, and they only used one of the sticks for movement.

Look, I play lots of FPS shooters..................on the PC, with a keyboard and mouse.
There is just no other valid alternative to play an FPS.
One that gets close enough would be the pointer abilities of the Wii remote ( but you loose speed and accuracy ) and the other one, even better , is the NINTENDO DS TOUCH SCREEN.
Yes, it might give you cramps and might be uncomfortable to some, but it's undeniably the next best thing after a keyboard and mouse for FPS.
You just get an unprecedented accuracy and speed with the touch screen
Why would I want to sacrifice that for a second analog stick ?
FPS where never meant to be seriously played on a console.
Goldeneye on the N64 was and still is a breakthrough on the genre because had FPS controls tailor made for the uniqueness of the controller.
After that we sort of saw EVERY other FPS on a home console using a dual analog setup, but even games like Metroid Prime , proved that the second analog doesn't really make for a better experience. It is actually awful to control an FPS like this , and it becomes nearly impossible to do so without auto-aiming.
Let me tell you something: Auto-aiming sucks ! ( now go and argue with it, non hardcore FPS player ..).

Also, as I stated before, conveniently having a second analog on the 3DS, would open up the possibility for developers to lazily port games from the PS2 era, no doubt about it.
And it wouldn't be done right anyway.
I'll explain: Most of us have two thumbs

, now if both thumbs are on the analog sliders ( if like you say they should put a second one in it ), then the only other fingers free to perform actions would be the index fingers on both hands.
That might work fine on a Dual Shock like controller with 4 shoulder buttons (L1 L2, R1 R2 ), because you could map basic actions like shooting, duck, jump and weapon selection or secondary fire to it, but on and handled, 4 shoulder buttons are unheard of and at the least very difficult to implement given the nature of the small proportions, therefore you would be left with an half-assed control scheme ported from the days of PS2 with cumbersome combination of thumb, index fingers and touch screen controls to even perform the most basic actions.

My other point is also that ever since the days of the original GB, the difference in screen resolution or control scheme, always forced developers to create new content for Nintendo handled to fully take advantage of the hardware.
And that has been a key in the success of Nintendo and put it currently and more then ever on top of the handled kingdom.
Other contenders where available at the time, like the atari lynx and sega gamegear , but they all failed because they were to ambitious ( besides they were suckers for battery life but that's a different story ) and had such high graphic capabilities ( again compared to the GB ) that developers were simply porting games from home consoles, and that was a huge failure ( even to this days, that's what happens to most PSP games, and that's how the DS is so popular and highly regarded for it's diverse library of original titles not found anywhere else.

So ,these are the facts that lead me to believe that Nintendo are once again on the right track and the 3DS will be even bigger ( in terms of sales and popularity ) then the mighty DS, even without a second analog stick ( and again, for the solely purpose of camera adjusting the motion sensors would make up for it quite egregiously ).

That's wierd, I always found the Wiimote far quicker and accurate than the analog and slightly more than a mouse+keyboard...

On topic: If they do incorporate a second stick, I hope they place the power button elsewhere, based on your photoshop (which is excellent I must say), I can already see hours of precious gameplay going straight down the hole...

 

[_Chaz_]

Look, I play lots of FPS shooters..................on the PC, with a keyboard and mouse.
There is just no other valid alternative to play an FPS.
One that gets close enough would be the pointer abilities of the Wii remote ( but you loose speed and accuracy ) and the other one, even better , is the NINTENDO DS TOUCH SCREEN.
Yes, it might give you cramps and might be uncomfortable to some, but it's undeniably the next best thing after a keyboard and mouse for FPS.
You just get an unprecedented accuracy and speed with the touch screen
Why would I want to sacrifice that for a second analog stick ?
FPS where never meant to be seriously played on a console.
Goldeneye on the N64 was and still is a breakthrough on the genre because had FPS controls tailor made for the uniqueness of the controller.
After that we sort of saw EVERY other FPS on a home console using a dual analog setup, but even games like Metroid Prime , proved that the second analog doesn't really make for a better experience. It is actually awful to control an FPS like this , and it becomes nearly impossible to do so without auto-aiming.
Let me tell you something: Auto-aiming sucks ! ( now go and argue with it, non hardcore FPS player ..).

Also, as I stated before, conveniently having a second analog on the 3DS, would open up the possibility for developers to lazily port games from the PS2 era, no doubt about it.
And it wouldn't be done right anyway.
I'll explain: Most of us have two thumbs

, now if both thumbs are on the analog sliders ( if like you say they should put a second one in it ), then the only other fingers free to perform actions would be the index fingers on both hands.
That might work fine on a Dual Shock like controller with 4 shoulder buttons (L1 L2, R1 R2 ), because you could map basic actions like shooting, duck, jump and weapon selection or secondary fire to it, but on and handled, 4 shoulder buttons are unheard of and at the least very difficult to implement given the nature of the small proportions, therefore you would be left with an half-assed control scheme ported from the days of PS2 with cumbersome combination of thumb, index fingers and touch screen controls to even perform the most basic actions.

My other point is also that ever since the days of the original GB, the difference in screen resolution or control scheme, always forced developers to create new content for Nintendo handled to fully take advantage of the hardware.
And that has been a key in the success of Nintendo and put it currently and more then ever on top of the handled kingdom.
Other contenders where available at the time, like the atari lynx and sega gamegear , but they all failed because they were to ambitious ( besides they were suckers for battery life but that's a different story ) and had such high graphic capabilities ( again compared to the GB ) that developers were simply porting games from home consoles, and that was a huge failure ( even to this days, that's what happens to most PSP games, and that's how the DS is so popular and highly regarded for it's diverse library of original titles not found anywhere else.

So ,these are the facts that lead me to believe that Nintendo are once again on the right track and the 3DS will be even bigger ( in terms of sales and popularity ) then the mighty DS, even without a second analog stick ( and again, for the solely purpose of camera adjusting the motion sensors would make up for it quite egregiously ).

While I agree that the PC is the most accurate and effective way to play FPSs, I highly disagree that the DS touch screen is better than dual analog sticks.
Dual analog sticks add a more "PC" feel, walk/strafe with one and look around with the other (much like WASD and mouse).
Using the touch screen for camera control means that both hands are used and this limits the amount of features that can be included using the buttons (Fire, Secondary Fire, Grenade, Melee Attack, Scope Zoom, etc.).
A stylus means that, rather than just one thumb, one must use their whole hand to hold it and steer the camera. Good luck pressing other buttons with that hand.


I heard a lot (and I mean A LOT) of opinions in this post rather than facts, and very little to back them up. And it sounds like you're trying to make people mad rather than have a good argument.


Plus, I love how you addressed that it's nearly "impossible" to play a console FPS with two analog sticks without auto-aim, calling people not "hardcore" for arguing. I agree that auto-aiming sucks, but if you can't play with two analog sticks without it, than you yourself are not even close to "hardcore".

 

[DiscostewSM]

The only way I can see them adding a 2nd analog slider is if within the next few months, they are able to shrink the size of the hardware under the hood, enough to a point where they can move stuff away from that lower-right corner for the slider to go into.

 

[pizzahutmaster]

Actually, I agree with Arm73
The DS touch screen is extremely great for FPS.
If you say its not, you probably have not played extensive FPS on the DS.
Going from PC to DS I can hold my own playing say Metroid Prime Hunters, but going from PC to the Xbox personally, I just can't handle the dual analog sticks, they are so inaccurate and never go where you want them to.
So personally, the second joy stick will not be a miss for me, and no use wining about it now, we all know that the 3DS doesn't have one. Sucks for the ones who wanted it, but really it is useless.

 

[DiscostewSM]

Two analog controllers are quintessential in not only console FPS gaming but gaming in general. The inclusion of a second analog stick should be but a rudimentary introduction to the 3DS controls.

And using the touch screen for FPS, like Metroid Prime, just strained my right hand.

I agree...

So if there was this awesome new 3D game e.g Super Mario Galaxy 3DS, (I know that's never gonna happen -- just an example.) then you'd probably be having more fun running around with the left analog and changing the camera view with the right analog.

Mario games modeled in 3D environments have never needed precision-controlled camera rotating, and when they did, it was only when the perspective changed to a close 1st person view when Mario wasn't moving.

And Goldeneye on the N64 was superb even without the need of a 2nd analog stick.

 

[dragon574444]

That looks awful close to the power button...

 

[Deleted User]

Yes it would unless Nintendo includes multi-touch Technology in their touch screen.

 

[_Chaz_]

Actually, I agree with Arm73
The DS touch screen is extremely great for FPS.
If you say its not, you probably have not played extensive FPS on the DS.
Going from PC to DS I can hold my own playing say Metroid Prime Hunters, but going from PC to the Xbox personally, I just can't handle the dual analog sticks, they are so inaccurate and never go where you want them to.
So personally, the second joy stick will not be a miss for me, and no use wining about it now, we all know that the 3DS doesn't have one. Sucks for the ones who wanted it, but really it is useless.

There aren't extensive FPS on the DS...
You're high. Dual analog sticks are extremely easy to maneuver if you have even the slightest sense of what you're doing.
The point of this thread was to ask if it would make a difference, not if it would have one and who should or should not be whining.

 

[BigBadBoss]

Holy crap that is some awesome photoshop work dude. Anyway, like what others said, I think it has something to do with the cost. The more they add to it, the more we will complain paying $300 for an awesome 3DS that we can't afford.

 

[Njrg]

Heres a question... Would we really need Dual analog if you move the analog to the right side?

 

[dsfanatic5]

Heres a question... Would we really need Dual analog if you move the analog to the right side?

If you're suggesting a control setup where the D-pad would be used exclusively on the left side, then I'd rather stick with the current design. Using the D-Pad to control 3D games such as Super Mario 64 is imprecise, and clunky. Overall I'm happy that Nintendo included the analog slider at all, so there isn't much room to complain. I imagine the only real change(s) we'll see in the 3DS design are the aesthetics. I still remember the first DS showing at E3, and how different the final design looked on the exterior. I really can't wait to own one.

 

[DunkrWunkah]

Heres a question... Would we really need Dual analog if you move the analog to the right side?

If you're suggesting a control setup where the D-pad would be used exclusively on the left side, then I'd rather stick with the current design. Using the D-Pad to control 3D games such as Super Mario 64 is imprecise, and clunky. Overall I'm happy that Nintendo included the analog slider at all, so there isn't much room to complain. I imagine the only real change(s) we'll see in the 3DS design are the aesthetics. I still remember the first DS showing at E3, and how different the final design looked on the exterior. I really can't wait to own one.

You got it spot on.

If Microsoft ever makes a handheld gaming console, it will be the first to feature dual-analog joysticks. Most of the good games on Xbox 360 are shooters, and that's what Microsoft's game consoles are known for. Also, they would probably sell an assload of consoles were that the case.

Nintendo is not too worried about shooters I think.

 

[DiscostewSM]

I find that the touch screen is a decent substitute for an analog stick/slider, and is a closer approximation to a PC/MAC mouse too, which also have shooters.

EDIT:

And since the 3DS will already come with one analog slider, it can act much like a dual analog stick/slider setup. While it would lose the R button in many cases because of the way it would be held while using the touch screen, the screen itself will provide buttons like how it has already. Not making a comparison with using the right-side buttons alongside a possible right analog slider because you can't use both with only one thumb that is over one or the other.

 

[dhjohn]

I find that the touch screen is a decent substitute for an analog stick/slider, and is a closer approximation to a PC/MAC mouse too, which also have shooters.

EDIT:

And since the 3DS will already come with one analog slider, it can act much like a dual analog stick/slider setup. While it would lose the R button in many cases because of the way it would be held while using the touch screen, the screen itself will provide buttons like how it has already. Not making a comparison with using the right-side buttons alongside a possible right analog slider because you can't use both with only one thumb that is over one or the other.

As a lefty, I take issue with that. For me, the analog slider would be lost rather than the buttons. (Mind you, I am not pushing for a second stick, just pointing out a issue with using the touch screen as a second stick.)

 

[weebwobb]

Here's a Top 5 article on why 3DS needs dual sticks.
1. Two sticks are the BEST way to navigate 3D
2. Gamers already know how to navigate 3D worlds with dual sticks
3. Adding it now is easy. Adding it later splits the market.
4. Give some love to the Lefties
5. Some games aren’t fun without them
6. Why not add two sticks?
7. Dual Sticks are Uptown

 

[spotanjo3]

Remember, 3DS portable isn't finalize at all. They might redesign it.