Homebrew [WIP][Game] Bottomless Block Barrage - a Tetris Attack/Panel De Pon/Pokemon Puzzle League clone

[SRKTiberious]

Okay, so I've gotten around to trying the game (I love how there's a QR code to install from FBI with. Nice touch!), and here's where I get into the truthfulness with you.

Pros:
+ Game runs fluidly. I didn't run into any slowdown, even during the hectic times.
+ Game feels faithful. Other than a couple minor touch-ups, this feels right.

Cons:
(I note you've already said you plan to fit the block clear graphics issue, so that won't be listed)
- Renaming of established system. Combos are combos, chains are chains, and what's an established trend shouldn't be messed with. If you want to maybe call your new scoring opportunity a Sequence, I'd be okay with that, but leave chains alone.
- Block drop speed tweaks are needed. Too many times in my testing game did I try to do what I know works in TA/PPL, only to have the block switch back into the stack like I'm some TAS-level god.
- A lack of graphics for things like Combos and Chains tends to throw me off, especially without audio cues to know how big my chain has gotten.

Oddities:
? The stack tends to drop several pixels after raising the stack to the top and beginning to clear out blocks. This is jarring and should be addressed.
? I wonder why you decided to use the Versus mode top-out timing in a 1P mode. This threw me off at first until I realized what was going on.

If you're able to combine 8x16 pieces to create a 16x16 graphic, I could make combo/chain/sequence graphics as well. And since I've figured out a method to get better sizing, these will be much nicer.

Edit: I'm realizing that in order to keep the filesize on the images down, you may have to be able to do 8x16 and 4x16 sections. Is that going to be an issue?

Edit 2:

Here's my proposed layout for the bonus markers:

As you can see, I broke parts up into the smallest components I could to make every possible (and impossible, lulz) combination. I figure you're not gonna get past x99 (99 chain) or +99 (100 sequence) very often, so those "?" ones should cover things.

 

[TricksterGuy]

Okay, so I've gotten around to trying the game (I love how there's a QR code to install from FBI with. Nice touch!), and here's where I get into the truthfulness with you.

Pros:
+ Game runs fluidly. I didn't run into any slowdown, even during the hectic times.
+ Game feels faithful. Other than a couple minor touch-ups, this feels right.

Cons:
(I note you've already said you plan to fit the block clear graphics issue, so that won't be listed)
- Renaming of established system. Combos are combos, chains are chains, and what's an established trend shouldn't be messed with. If you want to maybe call your new scoring opportunity a Sequence, I'd be okay with that, but leave chains alone.
- Block drop speed tweaks are needed. Too many times in my testing game did I try to do what I know works in TA/PPL, only to have the block switch back into the stack like I'm some TAS-level god.
- A lack of graphics for things like Combos and Chains tends to throw me off, especially without audio cues to know how big my chain has gotten.

Oddities:
? The stack tends to drop several pixels after raising the stack to the top and beginning to clear out blocks. This is jarring and should be addressed.
? I wonder why you decided to use the Versus mode top-out timing in a 1P mode. This threw me off at first until I realized what was going on.



If you're able to combine 8x16 pieces to create a 16x16 graphic, I could make combo/chain/sequence graphics as well. And since I've figured out a method to get better sizing, these will be much nicer.

Edit: I'm realizing that in order to keep the filesize on the images down, you may have to be able to do 8x16 and 4x16 sections. Is that going to be an issue?

Alright I will address all of your cons.


1) Renaming
A little background, if in any of the games you make any matches while you are chaining then you get awarded the same amount of points for that match, so I would like to give this a proper name since it afaik its not mentioned or named, maybe its an unintended bug in the original and they turned it into a feature?

This said I'm open to changing it back, but only the new thing must start with C. (cluster, cycle, circuit, etc) I will revisit this again after more thought.
The new thing currently has no effect in the game all that's done is that I am determining how many "chains" you are doing right now.
And yeah my goal for this is to introduce a new play style and mechanics (what if the player can match sets of 3 in rapid succession, its pretty difficult to move that fast?); while keeping the classic gameplay everyone knows and loves.
Whatever new things I introduce will be a separate option in the final product. (new vs classic). So everyone's happy

2-3) Yep both are currently in my list of things for next release (or one after).


Oddity 1) I'll look into it.

Oddity 2) If I understand correctly you are asking about the amount of time you are given as a cool down when you make a chain or combo of 4 or more?
The time out values are based off 1 player endless mode in Tetris attack.

 

[SRKTiberious]

No, no, I mean that if you raise the stack to the top, you don't immediately top out, and get time enough to make your first clear.

Also, so show the stack dropping, I've uploaded a replay for you to look at. It's just a quick "get it to happen then top out" one, so don't expect a skills exhibition.

 

[TricksterGuy]

Ok small update since I am out of time for the day and really need to get to bed.

Version 0.1.1
New: Menu background based off TA.

Fixed: Weird behavior when board was filled.
Fixed: Attempt 2 of speed calibration, it is now a little bit more like TA.
Fixed: "Blink" and removed frames added. When a match is made the panels immediately show their "blink" frame and panels will get removed one by one.
Fixed: Removed the 2px spacing between panels, updated border and selector graphics.
Fixed: Panels now fall a little faster when a match was made below it, before there was some delay that shouldn't have been there.

Changed: Per feedback left Chains as Chains, A new concept of a chain-link (or clink) is when you match panels in rapid succession.



So yeah here's iteration 2 of trying to get the speed settings just right. let me know how it feels, overall it should feel a lot faster than my first version.

Also a warning all replay files are now invalidated they won't work in this version. If you found my secret feature of playing replay files (press L + R + START at title screen).

 

[GalladeGuy]

Ok small update since I am out of time for the day and really need to get to bed.

Version 0.1.1
New: Menu background based off TA.

Fixed: Weird behavior when board was filled.
Fixed: Attempt 2 of speed calibration, it is now a little bit more like TA.
Fixed: "Blink" and removed frames added. When a match is made the panels immediately show their "blink" frame and panels will get removed one by one.
Fixed: Removed the 2px spacing between panels, updated border and selector graphics.
Fixed: Panels now fall a little faster when a match was made below it, before there was some delay that shouldn't have been there.

Changed: Per feedback left Chains as Chains, A new concept of a chain-link (or clink) is when you match panels in rapid succession.



So yeah here's iteration 2 of trying to get the speed settings just right. let me know how it feels, overall it should feel a lot faster than my first version.

Also a warning all replay files are now invalidated they won't work in this version. If you found my secret feature of playing replay files (press L + R + START at title screen).

Are you supposed to be able to carry blocks in the air? I noticed that if you have near frame perfect timing while swapping a block of a ledge, you're able to swap it again midair. Theoretically, you should be able to repeat this process infinitely, although the most I could get was 3 before I messed up and the block fell.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Ok small update since I am out of time for the day and really need to get to bed.

Version 0.1.1
New: Menu background based off TA.

Fixed: Weird behavior when board was filled.
Fixed: Attempt 2 of speed calibration, it is now a little bit more like TA.
Fixed: "Blink" and removed frames added. When a match is made the panels immediately show their "blink" frame and panels will get removed one by one.
Fixed: Removed the 2px spacing between panels, updated border and selector graphics.
Fixed: Panels now fall a little faster when a match was made below it, before there was some delay that shouldn't have been there.

Changed: Per feedback left Chains as Chains, A new concept of a chain-link (or clink) is when you match panels in rapid succession.



So yeah here's iteration 2 of trying to get the speed settings just right. let me know how it feels, overall it should feel a lot faster than my first version.

Also a warning all replay files are now invalidated they won't work in this version. If you found my secret feature of playing replay files (press L + R + START at title screen).

Also, on the title screen, after holding R+L+Start for a few seconds, letting go of Start, and then holding all 3 of them down again, it sent me back to the home menu with "An unknown error has occurred. The system will now restart."

 

[Tjessx]

Also, on the title screen, after holding R+L+Start for a few seconds, letting go of Start, and then holding all 3 of them down again, it sent me back to the home menu with "An unknown error has occurred. The system will now restart."

How did you even find this? literally trying every combination?
EDIT: i gave you a wow

 

[GalladeGuy]

How did you even find this? literally trying every combination?
EDIT: i gave you a wow

Also a warning all replay files are now invalidated they won't work in this version. If you found my secret feature of playing replay files (press L + R + START at title screen).

 

[SRKTiberious]

It feels good, though maybe a little too fast now.... or maybe I'm just slower from being older. Who knows?

Anyway, a little more feedback.

I'm still seeing some jitteriness when clearing a lot of stuff out with a high stack. It's not so noticeable now, but it's still there. It's kinda like when a garbage block hits the field.

One other thing you may want to do is not act on the end of the top-out timer when swapping panels. I've had a couple games now where it's ended my game in the middle of a switch, which is very Panel de Pon, but was changed in Tetris Attack, likely to stop complaints of "But I was clearing something with that swap".

Finally, it appears I've been a bit mistaken when I composed my graphics for Chains and C-Links, but I'm not sure how I could remake those without essentially making one for each number from 1 to 99. Even though they're less accurate compared to the source, you might want to just use the layout provided above, even if it's more difficult to program in initially. It can scale much easier, and I'll probably make a pixel art set in the not-too-distant future that's more based on the original style. Then, since I have a flow down, I can also go back in and redo the '3d' panel artwork with the same kind of flow so elements look more accurate to source. My first set was essentially a 'freehand' version with a guess as to how it was done, and even though it turned out mostly okay, I wasn't too thrilled with the 'bouncing' animation, so I kinda want to update them anyway.

 

[Tjessx]

I'm not sure if it's a bug or a feature, since i never played any of the original games.
But when you move a block above an empty lane (or just so that the block should fall), if you're fast enough, you can move it multiple times, without it falling.

 

[chaoskagami]

I'm not sure if it's a bug or a feature, since i never played any of the original games.
But when you move a block above an empty lane (or just so that the block should fall), if you're fast enough, you can move it multiple times, without it falling.

Yeah, it's a little too quick for this. You can get away with this once in a frame-precise manner in the original.

All in all, I think this update is a definite improvement, but it's...hm. The speed is a little faster than the original on swaps, and the window for tricks is too loose. Getting much closer to perfect, though.

 

[GalladeGuy]

I'm not sure if it's a bug or a feature, since i never played any of the original games.
But when you move a block above an empty lane (or just so that the block should fall), if you're fast enough, you can move it multiple times, without it falling.

I noticed that too. You need almost frame perfect timing though, so I was only able to keep up a string of about 3.

 

[SRKTiberious]

So, I went back and redid my '3D' block set:

I think it looks better. What about you?

 

[TricksterGuy]

It feels good, though maybe a little too fast now.... or maybe I'm just slower from being older. Who knows?

Anyway, a little more feedback.

I'm still seeing some jitteriness when clearing a lot of stuff out with a high stack. It's not so noticeable now, but it's still there. It's kinda like when a garbage block hits the field.

One other thing you may want to do is not act on the end of the top-out timer when swapping panels. I've had a couple games now where it's ended my game in the middle of a switch, which is very Panel de Pon, but was changed in Tetris Attack, likely to stop complaints of "But I was clearing something with that swap".

Finally, it appears I've been a bit mistaken when I composed my graphics for Chains and C-Links, but I'm not sure how I could remake those without essentially making one for each number from 1 to 99. Even though they're less accurate compared to the source, you might want to just use the layout provided above, even if it's more difficult to program in initially. It can scale much easier, and I'll probably make a pixel art set in the not-too-distant future that's more based on the original style. Then, since I have a flow down, I can also go back in and redo the '3d' panel artwork with the same kind of flow so elements look more accurate to source. My first set was essentially a 'freehand' version with a guess as to how it was done, and even though it turned out mostly okay, I wasn't too thrilled with the 'bouncing' animation, so I kinda want to update them anyway.

For your first thing are you only seeing this when the stack hits the top AND you perform a four or more combo?

I see what you mean by top-out timer now, yeah easy fix I just need to disable the extra state I used, and another check to see if any panels are swapping/falling.

I will add in those graphics later.

And those panels look excellent!

I'm not sure if it's a bug or a feature, since i never played any of the original games.
But when you move a block above an empty lane (or just so that the block should fall), if you're fast enough, you can move it multiple times, without it falling.

Yeah small issue with how I am handling the panel states, I'll fix it for next time.

Yeah, it's a little too quick for this. You can get away with this once in a frame-precise manner in the original.

All in all, I think this update is a definite improvement, but it's...hm. The speed is a little faster than the original on swaps, and the window for tricks is too loose. Getting much closer to perfect, though.

How much slower do you feel it should be?
It feels like ~2 seconds in the original to just clear 3 panels

 

[chaoskagami]

How much slower do you feel it should be?
It feels like ~2 seconds in the original to just clear 3 panels

Quick testing in Pokemon Puzzle Challenge, don't quote me on this:
* The cursor can move slightly faster.
* Blocks flash for approximately 2 seconds and disappear at a rate of one per approximately 0.2 seconds when cleared.
* Gravity is delayed for a little more than half a second and the fall is near instantaneous.

 

[SRKTiberious]

Pretty much, yeah. Could the graphics for the top of the 'jump' be misaligned somehow?

Also, you could stand to turn the cursor repeat rate a little higher. It seems kinda slow.

Honestly, the best thing you could do at this point is just go into an SNES emulator and start frame-advancing movement speeds at various settings until you have the values down.

 

[TricksterGuy]

ok version 0.1.3 is out. I kinda messed up 0.1.2 so...

New: New panel set and panel set selection in Endless mode config (Credit: SRKTiberious)

Fixed: You could double swap a panel over a gap.
Fixed: More speed adjustments.
Fixed: Top-out board "jittered" when performing a combo or chain and was still topped out.
Fixed: Same as above but the panels immediately switched to normal when it should have the "up" frame.
Fixed: Gameover's should not occur when there is a pending falling panel or pending swapped panel.
Fixed: If you swapped a panel and it fell and while doing this you got a gameover the fallen panel wouldn't have the gameover frame.

Changed: Speed settings for cursor


Anyway I try to add one new UI thing and then a bunch of fixes.

Quick testing in Pokemon Puzzle Challenge, don't quote me on this:
* The cursor can move slightly faster.
* Blocks flash for approximately 2 seconds and disappear at a rate of one per approximately 0.2 seconds when cleared.
* Gravity is delayed for a little more than half a second and the fall is near instantaneous.

I increased the time by 50 milliseconds, and the time to quickly move by 25 milliseconds.

I updated the speed settings again. also just so you know there are three timings 1) flash 2) first removed 3) subsequent removals. It seems there is a longer delay to remove the first panel, which is expected.

Yeah I think I will need to redo the falling stuff. In TA it seems to fall by two rows at each update I recall every 2-4 frames it drops by 2 rows. I have been dropping by only 1 row every 4 frames.

Pretty much, yeah. Could the graphics for the top of the 'jump' be misaligned somehow?

Also, you could stand to turn the cursor repeat rate a little higher. It seems kinda slow.

Honestly, the best thing you could do at this point is just go into an SNES emulator and start frame-advancing movement speeds at various settings until you have the values down.

1) The jump is due to a state change the whole game board can be in one of these states at a given time (RISING, RISEN, STOPPED, CLOGGED, and GAMEOVER)

RISING is the normal state you will see the pending blocks slowly rise up to the next level
RISEN is the state in which the pending blocks become available to use and a new row of pending blocks is generated
STOPPED only occurs when you perform a combo chain
CLOGGED is the top-out state the pending blocks can't move up any longer
GAMEOVER is of course the game being over.

If you make a combo/chain when the current state is CLOGGED it transitions to state STOPPED. This is the problem, once its in STOPPED it doesn't know what state it was in beforehand, it chose the wrong one RISING and that's what caused the little graphics glitch.


2) Cursor speed was just increased in version 0.1.3

3) And that's what I have been doing However counting frames and inserting them into my code will not work due to a different processor speed (and possibly framerate).

The SNES's CPU is 1.79-3.58 MHz vs the 3DS's (old: 268MHz new: 804MHz)

Anyway there are three timings to matching 1) flash 2) first removed 3) subsequent removals.

doing a frame by frame analysis is what I did for 0.1.1, but I was a little stingy with my numbers.

the numbers I counted from Tetris attack are 1) 22 frames 2) 13 frames 3) 4 frames
in v0.1.1 I used these numbers for easy mode 1) 36 frames 2) 18 frames 3) 6 frames. And that was too fast.
so now I use these numbers for easy mode 1) 66 frames 2) 33 frames 3) 11 frames. If this is too slow then probably the normal mode settings would hit the nail on the head.

I should really switch from using frames to milliseconds here it might save some trouble. That will be one of the topics for tonight I guess.

 

[SRKTiberious]

Wow... I'm surprised at how good they actually look in-game. You don't really know how they'll turn out until you see them on the screen. Now I'm confident in how the combo/chain/c-link markers will look.

 

[TricksterGuy]

Fixed thanks, yeah it was 2:30 am was in a hurry to get to bed.

I'll see if I can integrate those sprites tonight. I get roughly 5 hours on weekdays to work on this.

EDIT done. I also applied a fading effect to it.

No release today this was the only thing I got done tonight.

Well time for bed now.

 

[SRKTiberious]

Ooh... that looks nice. Now I know I've gotta get the classic versions made soon. The classic set will complement your classic panels nicely. Although, I have to wonder what's going on with the x10 in your second screenshot... the way I laid them out in the PNG, the left half is meant to use the 8x16 section that's the left half of the marker and the 'x', while the right half is comprised of the 4x16s that have the necessary numbers.

I'm also studying the construction of the garbage blocks so that I can make that set in 3D for when they're necessary. Most of it is straightforward, but since they're 16x16 panels like the regular pieces, well, it's gonna be 'fun' trying to get them done without excessive repeats. It may be a little difficult to implement on your end, but garbage block construction is, well, kinda complex anyway.

 

[TricksterGuy]

This may be a little hard to explain but just so we're both on the same page.


So if I have a chain that's > 9 say 14 for example


piece1 = the [x from the image at the rectangle [x = 0, y = 0, width = 8, height = 16]
piece2 = the one at the rectangle [4, 16, 4, 16]
piece3 = the four at rectangle [64, 16, 4, 16]

once I have those locations
piece1 is drawn at [x = 0, y =0]
piece2 is drawn at [8, 0]
piece3 is drawn at [12, 0]

And an image to illustrate this

shaded regions are parts of the image that are grabbed and below is what would be drawn