1. eyeliner

    OP eyeliner Has an itch needing to be scratched.
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    Hi guys.

    I have two Wii's and want to make them dedicated system machines, one for GameCube, other for Wii games.
    Thing is, most games are duplicates from multiple regions, and I'd like to know if there's a "best picture quality" region in Gamecube games.
    That progressive scan setting is something I am yet to fully understand, and for what I gather, it's only in PAL games? What does it improve, really?

    Are the NTSC games better in any way (except some significant improvement between releases) or is PAL preferred?

    Is any game in the Gamecube/Wii different between regions, as far as you are aware?

    I thank you.
     
  2. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
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    I think it's mostly ntsc games that support progressive.

    It mostly means that your tv won't have to waste time de-interlacing & movement will be slightly smoother.

    To be honest the massively expensive digital progressive cable you need is a waste of money.

    A wii with a standard component cable will let you do pretty much the same thing for much less money.

    I don't believe the cheap analogue gamecube component cables allow you to use progressive.
     
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  3. Draxikor

    Draxikor GBAtemp Regular
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    The progressive mode are exclusive to NTSC games, in the other hand PAL games have a bit more video quality in composite video. For video quality use always NTSC games and never use widescreen on GC games even on Wii ones they are 4:3 native and using the anamorphic widescreen just affect the pixel quality making the image worse, now the progressive is only usable trought component cables any one you could get for the wii is ok but if you want one that is really well made look for HD retrovision wii component is no that cheap but way more affordable than the original one for GC, now speaking of progressive and component cable, you need to have realistic expectations the 480p quality is really low against FHD and 4K you wont notice a biggest graphic update unless you compare it vs composite, still is a must to play with component cables when using digital displays against the compressed image quality from composite video.
     
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  4. Ryccardo

    Ryccardo and his tropane alkaloids
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    I don't know any Animal Crossing first and foremost but there are going to be some - tcrf.net is probably the most comprehensive site (but not the only one) for looking up these differences!

    It's NTSC ones indeed (because of historical reasons having mostly to do with movie DVDs resulting in insufficient potential audience chicken and egg problems); PAL games generally have a 50Hz or 60Hz option (refresh rate vs resolution that may or may not be taken advantage of tradeoff) while NTSC ones have interlaced or progressive (not only all lines of a frame are sent in order as the name implies, but for the same resolution twice as many lines are sent in the same unit of time - 60 half frames per second vs 60 frames per second)

    Progressive is generally better for non-photorealistic content (especially windows and text), which one will look better on your system (composed of a video-generating device, a cable, a display, and a human or otherwise viewer) is something you'll have to try :)

    Correct... because they don't exist :P
     
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  5. MaeseJesus

    MaeseJesus GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    I have no idea why would you want two machines to do two things when you can use only one for everything and not lose anything, but whatever floats your boat in that matter, it's your choice!

    About NTSC VS PAL, it is in your best interests to go for the NTSC version first in most situations.

    Why? Because the vast, vast majority of PAL games of old played in 50Hz, meaning, they would play slower (around 16%) and could look stretched or squashed, depending on the system. So if a game ran at 30 FPS originally, it would be at 24 FPS in PAL, and if it was at 60 FPS originally, it would be lowered to 50 FPS.

    It was only after the Sixth generation where in PAL territories we could start seeing PAL games with 60Hz option starting with the Dreamcast, that would make those games run at the intended speed and resolution they were designed to be.

    This means that, yes, GameCube games could be PAL with 60Hz support option. The Problem is, not every game does, and sometimes they're very inconsistent with which games had it and which not, even from the same developers or even series. PS2 had it much worse than GC, though.

    The funny thing is that if a PAL game has a 60Hz option, and it works well, then it's kinda superior to the NTSC because PAL also includes more languages and often it's a more updated version of the game (for example, it may have some bugs fixed that could happen on the NTSC version).

    And if you play these games with Nintendont, you can force Progressive Scan on PAL games working at 60Hz so you can get the complete package. Progressive Scan has already been mentioned, but in practical effects it makes the picture better all around (at least on the screens I've tried it on, it always gave me a better picture, more clear, which is good for text). You'll need your Wiis with component cables and 480P option enabled.

    So the core of this matter is simple.
    IGNORE EVERY PAL VERSION OF A GAME AND GO WITH THE NTSC UNLESS:

    They have a 60Hz support option.
    The can be forced or patched to play in 60Hz (like several games I made patches for).
    They're the only version in a language you can understand (Like Doshin The Giant).
    The PAL version has something different and of value (Like Luigi's Mansion).
    You don't care you're playing an worse performing version.

    I personally see no value in playing a game on my language (Spanish) If I'm going to have a miserable time playing at a lower speed, so I'd take a game in English and correct speed any day of the year.

    Check if the game you want has 60Hz Support on the PAL release. If it has, then you can try that one for whatever reason you have. If it does not have it, you go for the NTSC version, which will play at its intended speed and resolution.

    You can look for lists of games that have 60Hz Support, and you can go visit Romhacking.Net to look for the patches I made to transform PAL 50Hz games into 60Hz if you want.


    About games with noticeable differences between regions, Luigi's Mansion is one of the biggest ones, but also know that Dragon Ball Z Budokai 2 PAL had both English and Japanese voice acting plus some costumes exclusive to it. The Viewtiful Joe games have subtitles in the PAL releases while the NTSC ones do not. Donkey Konga 1 and 2 also have different soundtracks between regions (and also including Japan, not just America and Europe).

    The Legend of Zelda: Collector's Edition also has some good difference between regions; Majora's Mask has all the languages found in the original PAL Release, but every single game in that collection works in 60Hz instead of 50Hz. In fact, to this day if I remember right, the only legal way to play the original Ocarina of Time, Master Quest and Majora's Mask at their intended speed in PAL territories is through that (and the Wind Waker's Bonus) disc. Quite sad to think about.

    Edit: I also remember that there a handful games in which the NTSC version is just the best one. Two of those games are Billy Hatcher and Sonic Heroes, they have native Progressive Scan support, all the languages of the PAL, and their frame rate is better than the PAL versions, at least, on my own experience.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  6. Draxikor

    Draxikor GBAtemp Regular
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    @MaeseJesus Do you know a page whith all those games that have regional differences?
     
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  7. MaeseJesus

    MaeseJesus GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    Sorry, but what I know is from experience. You may have some luck visiting The Cutting Room Floor and check the games researched with the "Regional Differences" label. I don't know if there's a way to just look for GC games with that, though.

    Here's a Link.

    I also remembered, Tales of Symphonia has different fonts for text for NTSC and PAL releases too.
     
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  8. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
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  9. Ryccardo

    Ryccardo and his tropane alkaloids
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    They didn't, apparently: https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Component-Playstation-PS2-GC-XBOX/dp/B000RNAGEK/ :D - looks like some not very smart designer assumed Nintendo products of the time worked like the PS2 (where component/rgb is a manual selection) or Xbox (haven't looked into it but probably has dedicated pins in that huge connector)

    The original GC component cables are expensive because the console doesn't have such an output so it has to include a video converter in the cable - they could have added a S-video to component decoder (missing out on the point but at least working as advertised) but they didn't do that either!
     
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  10. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
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    There was another manufacturer that made them as well, so it does seem strange if it didn't work.
    RGB to component could be included in an analogue cable relatively easily.
     
  11. eyeliner

    OP eyeliner Has an itch needing to be scratched.
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    Well, I have one of them set up in the living room, with all the peripherals, mat and wheel. The other one is in the office, where it's connected to a monitor, and it's not very practical to have the blasted sensor bar in there, and being close to the monitor, the WiiMote doesn't register that well.

    My daughter likes the WiiMote, but doesn't really get the hang of the GameCube's gamepad, and she mostly plays in the living room.
    It's just a matter of practicality. And because I have two Wiis. :P

    Also, your post is great, thanks!
     
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