Hacking Why are devmenu and bbm "illegal"?

[jrebey]

I keep seeing people refer to these apps as illegal while also talking about piracy so I've grown confused.

Why exactly are these apps illegal?

 

[michyprima]

devmenu is part of the nintendo official sdk, which requires a license to be used.

 

[jrebey]

Okay, that was easy and makes sense.

 

[ninjanick999]

It really doesn't make much sense at all the way we treat certain stuff as illegal.
Here's a quote from the Nintendo 3DS EULA (http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/info/en_na/docs.jsp):

"You may not publish, copy, modify, reverse engineer, lease, rent, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the Software, or bypass, modify, defeat, tamper with, or circumvent any of the functions or protections of your Nintendo 3DS, unless otherwise permitted by law."

This means that all homebrew and exploits are illegal. By running homebrew you are circumventing the protections of your Nintendo 3DS.
We can't only say what we want is illegal, The truth is that any 3DS hacking is illegal.
Is using devmenu any more illegal than running Homebrew?

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Breaking a EULA ≠ Violating Copyright.

It's a bit more complicated than that since you also have provisions of the DMCA to contend with, but suffice to say, yes, there's a big difference.

 

[Gamemaster1379]

It really doesn't make much sense at all the way we treat certain stuff as illegal.
Here's a quote from the Nintendo 3DS EULA (http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/info/en_na/docs.jsp):

"You may not publish, copy, modify, reverse engineer, lease, rent, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the Software, or bypass, modify, defeat, tamper with, or circumvent any of the functions or protections of your Nintendo 3DS, unless otherwise permitted by law."

This means that all homebrew and exploits are illegal. By running homebrew you are circumventing the protections of your Nintendo 3DS.
We can't only say what we want is illegal, The truth is that any 3DS hacking is illegal.
Is using devmenu any more illegal than running Homebrew?

Doesn't explicitly state those actions as illegal. It just says not to do them, which is a terms of service. Means Nintendo can deny repair and support, but doesn't mean you are breaking the law.

As far as the devmenu goes, that's copyrighted material being distributed. That is not a freely distributed "public access" app. They own the code behind it and did not allow it under free licensing.

Same idea as illegally downloading movies or music, ultimately.

 

[Foxi4]

Breaking a EULA ≠ Violating Copyright. It's a bit more complicated than that since you also have provisions of the DMCA to contend with, but suffice to say, yes, there's a big difference.

DMCA doesn't apply to the entire world, so that point is moot. Anywho, installing devMenu (and its derivatives) breaks copyright simply because you as a user don't have the license for the software to begin with. If you have it in your possession then chances are that you obtained it illegally (unless you have a legal devkit in which case there are certain sanctions regarding the installation, for instance the number of units it can be installed on, all of which have to be dev units, not retail units).

Doesn't explicitly state those actions as illegal. It just says not to do them, which is a terms of service. Means Nintendo can deny repair and support, but doesn't mean you are breaking the law.

Not true, software is a good, not a service. Illegal reproduction of software is a breach of copyright law.

 

[williamcesar2]

It really doesn't make much sense at all the way we treat certain stuff as illegal.
Here's a quote from the Nintendo 3DS EULA (http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/info/en_na/docs.jsp):

"You may not publish, copy, modify, reverse engineer, lease, rent, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the Software, or bypass, modify, defeat, tamper with, or circumvent any of the functions or protections of your Nintendo 3DS, unless otherwise permitted by law."

This means that all homebrew and exploits are illegal. By running homebrew you are circumventing the protections of your Nintendo 3DS.
We can't only say what we want is illegal, The truth is that any 3DS hacking is illegal.
Is using devmenu any more illegal than running Homebrew?

have you ever heard the word ''Hypocrisy'' ? Then... that's all

 

[dubbz82]

You can break nintendo's terms of service all day and all night long. Just don't expect support from them after you do it. Violating terms of service isn't violating the law, it's just basically breaking your agreement with them, that if something was to go awry that they'd repair/replace the device for you, more or less. It gives them the right to deny service outright (which they usually don't do, but from my understanding, they have been known in the past to charge a premium on repairs for modified systems), without legal recourse from you for doing so.

 

[ninjanick999]

You can break nintendo's terms of service all day and all night long. Just don't expect support from them after you do it. Violating terms of service isn't violating the law, it's just basically breaking your agreement with them, that if something was to go awry that they'd repair/replace the device for you, more or less. It gives them the right to deny service outright (which they usually don't do, but from my understanding, they have been known in the past to charge a premium on repairs for modified systems), without legal recourse from you for doing so.

Nintendo claims in the EULA that they will render your 3DS "permanently unplayable" if you use unauthorized hardware/software. I know this scared many early owners of 3DS systems that used NDS flash carts, but they never did anything.
I don't know if they have any future plans, but I think that they say that just to scare users out of piracy.

 

[dubbz82]

Nintendo claims in the EULA that they will render your 3DS "permanently unplayable" if you use unauthorized hardware/software. I know this scared many early owners of 3DS systems that used NDS flash carts, but they never did anything.
I don't know if they have any future plans, but I think that they say that just to scare users out of piracy.

Not just piracy either, any sort of unofficial software use (including but not limited to the cheat devices that are readily available on ebay/amazon/whatever else). I believe the reason the bricking clause was thrown in, was to cover their asses, in case anyone did brick from it (see the old gateway bricks for example...)

 

[TheShadowRunner]

Speaking of which, what is the difference between BBM & Devmenu?
Also what is that "ExData" column?

 

[plasma]

Speaking of which, what is the difference between BBM & Devmenu?
Also what is that "ExData" column?

Iirc, BBM is just devmenu, modified to be more stable.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Nintendo claims in the EULA that they will render your 3DS "permanently unplayable" if you use unauthorized hardware/software. I know this scared many early owners of 3DS systems that used NDS flash carts, but they never did anything.
I don't know if they have any future plans, but I think that they say that just to scare users out of piracy.

It doesn't say that they will brick your device, it's just a disclaimer that it may happen (of your own fault) and that you are SOL if it does.
They can't legally brick your device, they can take away services like online though. But they can't legally take away your ability to use a product you own.

 

[dubbz82]

It doesn't say that they will brick your device, it's just a disclaimer that it may happen (of your own fault) and that you are SOL if it does.
They can't legally brick your device, they can take away services like online though. But they can't legally take away your ability to use a product you own.

This probably depends on where you live, but generally speaking, they won't. Gateway on the other hand...

 

[Nemmay]

It really doesn't make much sense at all the way we treat certain stuff as illegal.
Here's a quote from the Nintendo 3DS EULA (http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/info/en_na/docs.jsp):

"You may not publish, copy, modify, reverse engineer, lease, rent, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the Software, or bypass, modify, defeat, tamper with, or circumvent any of the functions or protections of your Nintendo 3DS, unless otherwise permitted by law."

This means that all homebrew and exploits are illegal. By running homebrew you are circumventing the protections of your Nintendo 3DS.
We can't only say what we want is illegal, The truth is that any 3DS hacking is illegal.
Is using devmenu any more illegal than running Homebrew?

EULAs are not laws.. Although, some corporations would love it if they actually were.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

This probably depends on where you live, but generally speaking, they won't. Gateway on the other hand...

It's illegal in US at the very least, probably in EU too. No idea about other places.
And true that (even though it's a non-issue nowadays), although what GW are doing is not exactly legitimate either way

 

[gamesquest1]

Not just piracy either, any sort of unofficial software use (including but not limited to the cheat devices that are readily available on ebay/amazon/whatever else). I believe the reason the bricking clause was thrown in, was to cover their asses, in case anyone did brick from it (see the old gateway bricks for example...)

that warning has been on consumer good since the begging of time, it was on the nes/snes/n64/GC & wii.....its just there to cover their arse if you decide to shove a piece of soggy bread in your console.....i.e if you use any third party good we are not responsible if they mess up your console

basically someone who had only seen it for the first time on the 3Ds decided to spread some BS that nintendo where going to brick everyone if they used a flashcard, it never meant anything like that, its just a waiver so if you mess up your console with unofficial accessories they don't have any obligation to fix it for you (and so thy shouldn't really)

OFC some companies abuse these kinds of T&C clauses so for example you send your phone in for repair as the battery isn't holding a charge and they can turn around and say "tut tut tut this is not an official scambrand screen protector, this is probably the source of the fault, your warranty is now gone", but generally nintendo are pretty good for honoring warranty's

 

[dubbz82]

that warning has been on consumer good since the begging of time, it was on the nes/snes/n64/GC & wii.....its just there to cover their arse if you decide to shove a piece of soggy bread in your console.....i.e if you use any third party good we are not responsible if they mess up your console

basically someone who had only seen it for the first time on the 3Ds decided to spread some BS that nintendo where going to brick everyone if they used a flashcard, it never meant anything like that, its just a waiver so if you mess up your console with unofficial accessories they don't have any obligation to fix it for you (and so thy shouldn't really)

I believe they still did offer to though, from what i recall, at basically their "normal" rates of what they would charge someone outside of warranty, just as good business practice (and of course, a way to net them a few more bucks). Honestly though, one should know that their warranty is pretty much null and void the second they attempt to run any sort of exploit on their device (be it a phone, a 3ds, a ps3, a tv even...)

 

[gamesquest1]

I believe they still did offer to though, from what i recall, at basically their "normal" rates of what they would charge someone outside of warranty, just as good business practice (and of course, a way to net them a few more bucks). Honestly though, one should know that their warranty is pretty much null and void the second they attempt to run any sort of exploit on their device (be it a phone, a 3ds, a ps3, a tv even...)

oh yeah i think nearly all companies will offer to still fix it, but at a full on price, which is often a lot more expensive than just going to a local repair shop or buying a whole new system.....but thats the out of warranty way