Why are devmenu and bbm "illegal"?

Discussion in '3DS - Flashcards & Custom Firmwares' started by jrebey, Apr 4, 2015.

  1. jrebey
    OP

    jrebey GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    116
    38
    Mar 12, 2015
    United States
    I keep seeing people refer to these apps as illegal while also talking about piracy so I've grown confused.

    Why exactly are these apps illegal?
     
    Margen67 likes this.


  2. michyprima

    michyprima GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    219
    114
    Feb 19, 2014
    Italy
    devmenu is part of the nintendo official sdk, which requires a license to be used.
     
    filfat, sup3rgh0st and jrebey like this.
  3. jrebey
    OP

    jrebey GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    116
    38
    Mar 12, 2015
    United States
    Okay, that was easy and makes sense.
     
  4. ninjanick999

    ninjanick999 Advanced Member

    Newcomer
    96
    51
    Dec 13, 2014
    United States
    It really doesn't make much sense at all the way we treat certain stuff as illegal.
    Here's a quote from the Nintendo 3DS EULA (http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/info/en_na/docs.jsp):

    "You may not publish, copy, modify, reverse engineer, lease, rent, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the Software, or bypass, modify, defeat, tamper with, or circumvent any of the functions or protections of your Nintendo 3DS, unless otherwise permitted by law."

    This means that all homebrew and exploits are illegal. By running homebrew you are circumventing the protections of your Nintendo 3DS.
    We can't only say what we want is illegal, The truth is that any 3DS hacking is illegal.
    Is using devmenu any more illegal than running Homebrew?
     
    kheldar and DarkFlare69 like this.
  5. Wowfunhappy

    Wowfunhappy GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    568
    158
    May 14, 2008
    United States
    Breaking a EULA ≠ Violating Copyright.

    It's a bit more complicated than that since you also have provisions of the DMCA to contend with, but suffice to say, yes, there's a big difference.
     
    Relf, WulfyStylez and Sicklyboy like this.
  6. Gamemaster1379

    Gamemaster1379 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    588
    82
    May 5, 2008
    United States
    United States
    Doesn't explicitly state those actions as illegal. It just says not to do them, which is a terms of service. Means Nintendo can deny repair and support, but doesn't mean you are breaking the law.

    As far as the devmenu goes, that's copyrighted material being distributed. That is not a freely distributed "public access" app. They own the code behind it and did not allow it under free licensing.

    Same idea as illegally downloading movies or music, ultimately.
     
  7. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

    pip Reporter
    23,529
    21,457
    Sep 13, 2009
    Poland
    Gaming Grotto
    DMCA doesn't apply to the entire world, so that point is moot. Anywho, installing devMenu (and its derivatives) breaks copyright simply because you as a user don't have the license for the software to begin with. If you have it in your possession then chances are that you obtained it illegally (unless you have a legal devkit in which case there are certain sanctions regarding the installation, for instance the number of units it can be installed on, all of which have to be dev units, not retail units).
    Not true, software is a good, not a service. Illegal reproduction of software is a breach of copyright law.
     
  8. williamcesar2

    williamcesar2 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    673
    328
    Jun 21, 2013
    United States
    New York City


    have you ever heard the word ''Hypocrisy'' ? Then... that's all
     
  9. dubbz82

    dubbz82 GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,494
    806
    Feb 2, 2014
    United States
    You can break nintendo's terms of service all day and all night long. Just don't expect support from them after you do it. Violating terms of service isn't violating the law, it's just basically breaking your agreement with them, that if something was to go awry that they'd repair/replace the device for you, more or less. It gives them the right to deny service outright (which they usually don't do, but from my understanding, they have been known in the past to charge a premium on repairs for modified systems), without legal recourse from you for doing so.
     
  10. ninjanick999

    ninjanick999 Advanced Member

    Newcomer
    96
    51
    Dec 13, 2014
    United States
    Nintendo claims in the EULA that they will render your 3DS "permanently unplayable" if you use unauthorized hardware/software. I know this scared many early owners of 3DS systems that used NDS flash carts, but they never did anything.
    I don't know if they have any future plans, but I think that they say that just to scare users out of piracy.
     
  11. dubbz82

    dubbz82 GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,494
    806
    Feb 2, 2014
    United States


    Not just piracy either, any sort of unofficial software use (including but not limited to the cheat devices that are readily available on ebay/amazon/whatever else). I believe the reason the bricking clause was thrown in, was to cover their asses, in case anyone did brick from it (see the old gateway bricks for example...)
     
  12. TheShadowRunner

    TheShadowRunner I'm like you, I have no name.

    Member
    666
    197
    Mar 14, 2009
    United States
    Speaking of which, what is the difference between BBM & Devmenu?
    Also what is that "ExData" column?
     
  13. Plasma Shadow

    Plasma Shadow GBAtemp's Artificial Lifeform

    Member
    1,549
    369
    May 15, 2009
    I have no fucking idea.
    Iirc, BBM is just devmenu, modified to be more stable.
     
    Margen67 likes this.
  14. The Real Jdbye

    The Real Jdbye Always Remember 30/07/08

    Member
    GBAtemp Patron
    The Real Jdbye is a Patron of GBAtemp and is helping us stay independent!

    Our Patreon
    11,468
    4,779
    Mar 17, 2010
    Norway
    Alola
    It doesn't say that they will brick your device, it's just a disclaimer that it may happen (of your own fault) and that you are SOL if it does.
    They can't legally brick your device, they can take away services like online though. But they can't legally take away your ability to use a product you own.
     
  15. dubbz82

    dubbz82 GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,494
    806
    Feb 2, 2014
    United States


    This probably depends on where you live, but generally speaking, they won't. Gateway on the other hand...
     
  16. Nemmay

    Nemmay Member

    Newcomer
    14
    0
    Jan 4, 2015
    United States
    EULAs are not laws.. Although, some corporations would love it if they actually were.
     
  17. The Real Jdbye

    The Real Jdbye Always Remember 30/07/08

    Member
    GBAtemp Patron
    The Real Jdbye is a Patron of GBAtemp and is helping us stay independent!

    Our Patreon
    11,468
    4,779
    Mar 17, 2010
    Norway
    Alola
    It's illegal in US at the very least, probably in EU too. No idea about other places.
    And true that (even though it's a non-issue nowadays), although what GW are doing is not exactly legitimate either way :P
     
  18. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

    Member
    14,100
    9,435
    Sep 23, 2013
    that warning has been on consumer good since the begging of time, it was on the nes/snes/n64/GC & wii.....its just there to cover their arse if you decide to shove a piece of soggy bread in your console.....i.e if you use any third party good we are not responsible if they mess up your console

    basically someone who had only seen it for the first time on the 3Ds decided to spread some BS that nintendo where going to brick everyone if they used a flashcard, it never meant anything like that, its just a waiver so if you mess up your console with unofficial accessories they don't have any obligation to fix it for you (and so thy shouldn't really)

    OFC some companies abuse these kinds of T&C clauses so for example you send your phone in for repair as the battery isn't holding a charge and they can turn around and say "tut tut tut this is not an official scambrand screen protector, this is probably the source of the fault, your warranty is now gone", but generally nintendo are pretty good for honoring warranty's
     
    DarkFlare69 likes this.
  19. dubbz82

    dubbz82 GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,494
    806
    Feb 2, 2014
    United States


    I believe they still did offer to though, from what i recall, at basically their "normal" rates of what they would charge someone outside of warranty, just as good business practice (and of course, a way to net them a few more bucks). Honestly though, one should know that their warranty is pretty much null and void the second they attempt to run any sort of exploit on their device (be it a phone, a 3ds, a ps3, a tv even...)
     
  20. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

    Member
    14,100
    9,435
    Sep 23, 2013
    oh yeah i think nearly all companies will offer to still fix it, but at a full on price, which is often a lot more expensive than just going to a local repair shop or buying a whole new system.....but thats the out of warranty way