Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[wiismodrome]

Okay... I'll distill it down to the basics.

Devolution has anti-piracy measures, presumably to prevent copyright infringement.
Circumventing copy protection to rip Gamecube discs is itself copyright infringement (for millions of potential users of the program in nations with laws against breaking digital locks).
Using Devolution requires copyright infringement (for those who live in such nations).

Is it not ironic that in order to use a program which ostensibly prevents copyright infringement, one must engage in copyright infringement?

No weight ought to be given to the opinions people who have no intention to use the program and only appear to post to derail discussion. Personal comments are irrelevant to the discussion. Perhaps a class in critical thinking is in order?

 

[retKHAAAN]

So your entire argument now is based on the presumption that the purpose of the AP is to prevent copyright infringment? So if tueidj were to come here and post "Hey guys, I start work at Nintendo next week! Devolution was my job application! Thanks for the good times!" all the time you've spent here bitching would be for null...

Maybe he did it simply to see if it would work...
Maybe it was part of a deal he cut with another dev in order to get help or access to something he needed...
Maybe he just wanted to piss off the people like you he knew would act as if their world turned upside-down...

A class in critical thinking? You ever think that maybe everyone here understands what you are talking about but they don't give a shit because none is being forced to use this program? That's entirely possible, innit?

 

[megazig]

his argument is also based in localities. not every place has the same laws. quite pointless to say that an app was made for this purpose or that purpose or for this country or that country. if these are your basis for arguments, it seems rather pointless. might be better to just go and learn something instead of trying to get a class together

 

[Rydian]

Man, I wish people would make a 49-page thread questioning my motives for putting on blue boxers this morning.

 

[megazig]

because it brings out your chick's eyes while she's down there

 

[WiiUBricker]

Here is the thing: Are GC/Wii discs really protected in the first place? If yes, why is it possible to rip them straight with some LG drives? Where is the protection?

 

[McHaggis]

In many countries it is legal to make backups (or rips) from one's own media, but illegal to download the game elsewhere.

I have a hard time believing that anyone would be worried about getting caught or even prosecuted for downloading a console game they already own, least of all the members of GBATemp who have hacked their Wii consoles (no offense, anyone). So, in summary, the choices are:

• Download the game and see if Devolution is able to verify anyway
• Repurchase the disc, it's probably going to be cheap if you can find it without the case and manual
• Repair the disc
• Borrow the game from someone you know who has it

IMO, there are very few instances where at least one of these methods isn't feasible, like having a seriously damaged copy of a rare game that nobody you know has and is expensive to buy even now. But I seriously doubt anybody would let something like that happen to a game they really liked. All in all, it just really seems like you're using a weak argument because you're mad that you can't pirate GC games.

 

[Maverick Lunar X]

I can't believe this thread is still here. Someone should sticky it in EoF or something.

Seriously, if you don't like the AP, A) crack it yourself, or B) make your own loader. Pretty sure Tueidj isn't making Devo work on voodoo magic, its just code.

 

[the_randomizer]

I say screw the DMCA and just rip the games you own to a hard drive. What's the government going to do, place cameras in your house to make sure you never backup your own media? If people are so paranoid when it comes to making personal backups, they shouldn't be allowed on the internet on the first place. Same goes with downloading games you own when the discs they came on are irreparably damaged, the government isn't going to come knocking on your door if you download a game you own. Is it legal under DMCA jurisdiction? No, it's not, but are they going to hunt you down for doing so? Not likely.

 

[PsyBlade]

Downloading an ISO (of a game you already own) is supposedly ethical, yet it is clearly illegal in most places. Breaking digital locks to rip games is supposedly ethical, yet it is clearly illegal for millions of users. Compelling arguments supporting these apparently contradictory positions have yet to be presented.

Those statements are not contradictory at all.
Law and moral values are ortogonal concepts, only in an ideal world they would coincide pervectly.

 

[smf]

Is it not ironic that in order to use a program which ostensibly prevents copyright infringement, one must engage in copyright infringement?

In the US and some european countries you are legally entitled to make a backup of your gamecube games, it has to meet specific conditions so you can't use it as an excuse for piracy. In the UK you aren't allowed to copy anything without permission, but a court would throw out a legitimate case of copying as a waste of time.

The DMCA & EUCD aren't copyright laws, they restrict what you can do with the copy. It's the software (devolution/DM/swiss etc) that violates these laws.

 

[lex luthor]

LOL this thread is beyond stupidity. I only read for entertainment. The only posts related to the title are the first 2 pages, the rest is nonsense deriving from nonsense. Topics discussed here were fallacies, Hdd corruption, Verification Failure and now Laws. A normal person would understand that this thread is going nowhere and arguing here is just a way to do something in your spare time. If this thread was to have a real cause the discussion should be between the N- AP and the author (like years ago when TT decided they wouldn't support cios and people begun ranting and Marcan jumped and explained why he did it and defended every point threw at him) If Tueidj doesn't come here defending his POV regarding the topic's title it clearly means he doesn't care what people think about his AP policies.

 

[Jacobeian]

Agreed. I also find fascinating to what extent some people are willing to go just to justify their opinions, even when their arguments are being crushed one after another. Now you are saying the fact AP prevents you from playing with scratched disc (which is again an assumption that might not always be true) is encouraging copyright infrigement ? You might as well say nintendo is supporting iso downloads because its console drive refuses to play with those scratched disc...

The price argument is also similarly ridiculous: this makes you sound as if playing video games was some kind of "human right" that devolution was somehow stealing you and that you should be able to play anything you want when you decide it doesn't hurt economy anymore (as if it would prevent you from pirating wii games). Reality check would not hurt sometimes...

And now the big fuss is about legality vs morality ? How original... never seen before on gbatemp. Really, there is no point trying to reason some people, better let this thread die like all the other useless threads.

Oh, and about that from our little "i cannot be wrong" friend.

Don't know who would make such a claim....
However, it is frustrating to see programs that are released which promise to fulfill certain desirable goals only to find they are difficult to use or unusable due to AP.

Do we really need to dig (again) for you the initial announcement post were he clearly said it will require original discs and won't be like other backup loaders to show you are (again) making things up ?

 

[Ericss]

If people want to use Devolution but have their games' discs too scratched, then they're being forced to download the games. Stop using strawman arguments such as semantics.

I'm not using strawman arguments. They aren't FORCED to download the games. They could repurchase them. Sure it sucks, but it's not like breaking the law is the only option, and using Devolution isn't necessary either.

Ok, then Devolution's AP forces Devo users that have scratched dics to either illegally download the games, or buy them again, even if they already dumped them previously (due to the app only accepting clean rips).
Happy now?

Definition of PUNISH



transitive verb

1
a : to impose a penalty on for a fault, offense, or violation
b : to inflict a penalty for the commission of (an offense) in retribution or retaliation


No one has been "punished" here, despite all the butthertedness claiming otherwise. Claiming that tueidj has somehow wronged anyone or prevented anyone from doing anything is like complaining that there's no sugar in Diet Pepsi... If you want sugar, drink regular Pepsi.

Oh, stop drama queening. No one said that tueidj is wronging anyone. The thing being discussed and criticized is the AP, not tueidj.

And people with scratched discs would be able to play their games using Devolution if the AP didn't exist. Ergo, the AP IS punishing people and IS preventing them from doing something..

1. Devolution is not preventing users from doing anything that they were able to do prior to it's release. It is not for everyone, nor was it ever advertised as such.
2. This entire thread has been a criticism of tueidj from its inception, starting with blatant namecalling nastiness early on, and continuing with bullshit talk of fallacies and straw men once a couple of people who are simply arguing for the sake of arguing jumped on board. Claiming that no one (don't know how you can state that you're speaking for everyone) says tueidj is wronging anyone and then pressing on with the argument that the AP he built into his program is "punishing" people seems a bit like...well...maybe you're just confused...
3. Analogies are only effective if they bear equal importance to that which they are describing. Children exaggerate, and I'm pretty sure comparing a dev releasing an application to someone threatening you at gunpoint...is an exaggeration.

1.No, but its AP is preventing some users from doing something that they would be able to do if it didn't exist.
2.I didn't see anyone namecalling or insulting tueidj in the recent pages.
3.Nope. Analogies are valid if the fallacy being pointed out applies in both cases, the importance of either situation has no relevance whatsoever.

Agreed. I also find fascinating to what extent some people are willing to go just to justify their opinions, even when their arguments are being crushed one after another. Now you are saying the fact AP prevents you from playing with scratched disc (which is again an assumption that might not always be true) is encouraging copyright infrigement ? You might as well say nintendo is supporting iso downloads because its console drive refuses to play with those scratched disc...

The point of Devolution making users illegally download games was brought up because people countered to the "People with scratched discs can't use Devolution to play their games" argument with "You can validate games using scratches discs". Which you can, but since you need clean rips (which can't be generated with scratched discs), that means that you have to download one.

 

[wiismodrome]

More ad hominems and straw men?

Somehow I think that I've failed at expressing my point...

If we take a look at the legality of what is required to use Devolution, it turns out that (in several countries) illegal acts are required to use the program.

I've been trying to show that the moral and legal issues are actually quite complex. Once that has been understood, then it can be seen that taking a dogmatic stance is rationally untenable. However, from what I gather, there are a lot of people here who either think that the underlying legal/ethical issues are either simple or irrelevant and would rather dismiss them and discussion all together and instead hurl ad hominems....

 

[Shano56]

the_randomizer likes to talk out of his ass

 

[JoostinOnline]

Somehow I think that I've failed at expressing my point...

You've failed at quite a few things in this thread, but expressing your point is not one of them.

 

[wiismodrome]

Somehow I think that I've failed at expressing my point...

You've failed at quite a few things in this thread, but expressing your point is not one of them.

Disagree.... but I see that some people still insist upon using ad hominem arguments....

Something I apparently failed at was making the assumption that people here could have a rational and civil discussion of anti-piracy measures. Some can... while others seem preoccupied with shutting down discussion and/or making personal attacks.

 

[Maxternal]

Just a thought, even in those countries where there's no legal way to obtain a copy of a GameCube game for personal use, is the actual USE of that copy in and of itself still illegal?
I think that [member='tueidj'] may have been very careful to let CleanRip do the illegal stuff so his app could fall through a loop hole (in countries where that applies, of course)
Many other loaders can also do the ripping themselves but his can't. I'm no lawyer but that just came to mind.

---

 

[retKHAAAN]

Something I apparently failed at was making the assumption that people here could have a rational and civil discussion of anti-piracy measures. Some can... while others seem preoccupied with shutting down discussion and/or making personal attacks.

Except this thread isn't a discussion of anti-piracy measures. This specifically asks "Why add AP to Devolution?". And the answer to that is "because the dev wanted to add AP to Devolution". The people who can't accept the dev's right to do whatever he pleases with his app, regardless of whether or not his decisions limit the functionality and/or usefulness of said app, are the only ones who think there is even a discussion to be had.

No one has to justify the AP to anyone.