What happened with AuroraWright's OTPless install?.

Discussion in '3DS - Homebrew Development and Emulators' started by JCCG1989, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. JCCG1989
    OP

    JCCG1989 GBAtemp Fan

    Member
    434
    188
    Jul 16, 2016
    Mexico
    This is actually a matter that concerns me too much. After Plailec decided to take out the OTPless install from his guide I've not seen any news about the OTPless. My opinion is that the community went totally unfair with AuroraWright in this matter, why? the OTPless install was a wonderful tool and everyone midly experimented in the N3DS matter know that the mass paranoid flow of noobs caused the downfall of this method. I totally understand Plailect taking down the method from his guide but I don't undertand how stupid de community is to abandon such a great tool. So, any news or data I missed about OTPless install?
     


  2. urherenow

    urherenow GBAtemp Addict

    Member
    2,915
    845
    Mar 8, 2009
    United States
    Japan
    If you wanted a direct answer, you probably should have tagged @Aurora Wright

    Since I tagged the user for you, I may as well ad a comment on :

    One doesn't simply "find" an exploit. One finds/discovers a vulnerability, and then figures out how to exploit it.
     
    Last edited by urherenow, Dec 21, 2016
    Zidapi likes this.
  3. wiiu more like pee u

    wiiu more like pee u GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    273
    106
    Jan 31, 2016
    United States
    I'm pretty sure there was a small chance of bricking with it which was not a user error, as it was reported a lot of times
     
    gnmmarechal and N7Kopper like this.
  4. JCCG1989
    OP

    JCCG1989 GBAtemp Fan

    Member
    434
    188
    Jul 16, 2016
    Mexico
    everything related to CFW has a slight chance of brick, and no one can prove it was not user side.
     
  5. Mikemk

    Mikemk GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,528
    535
    Mar 26, 2015
    United States
    It was randomly generating the wrong OTP, and they couldn't figure out why. Theories ranged from bad SD card to bad RAM, etc (All of which had checks added), and they couldn't ever find the bug. It was removed until someone figures out why it randomly doesn't work.
     
  6. squall14716

    squall14716 GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,162
    662
    May 16, 2011
    United States
  7. JCCG1989
    OP

    JCCG1989 GBAtemp Fan

    Member
    434
    188
    Jul 16, 2016
    Mexico
    I know every reason why it was retired if you readed the OP, what I mean if there is anydevelopment on that.
     
  8. squall14716

    squall14716 GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,162
    662
    May 16, 2011
    United States
    The development is that it causes bricks in some cases and nobody knows why.

    There can't really be improvements until somebody figures out why, and nobody has. I have no idea if it was given up on or still being looked at, but it only saves a small bit of time anyway.
     
  9. Mikemk

    Mikemk GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,528
    535
    Mar 26, 2015
    United States
    Looking at the source code, otpless appears to have been abandoned
     
  10. JCCG1989
    OP

    JCCG1989 GBAtemp Fan

    Member
    434
    188
    Jul 16, 2016
    Mexico
    That's very sad.
     
  11. shadowfocus603

    shadowfocus603 Advanced Member

    Newcomer
    69
    88
    Oct 10, 2016
    United States
    Just my opinion so take this with a grain of salt. I think the most conclusive proof for this whole thing being user side error is the fact that Aurora was never able to definitively nail down a cause or recreate the brick after various attempts. How many total bricks were ever reported? 10? 20? Out of how many installs? I have to agree with OP when he said everything in this scene has a risk associated with it. As time goes by, devs like Aurora do all they can to mitigate the risks but it's never eliminated completely.
     
  12. MadMageKefka

    MadMageKefka GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,447
    1,211
    Apr 28, 2016
    United States
    World of ruin
    There was tons of proof that it wasn't caused by user error. I personally walked a friend through it and he bricked. Checked all of his files and held his hand the entire way. I'm sure he did everything right. He bricked during the a9lh install itself, not during a downgrade. Several people posted here as well with similar stories. Some even showed us sd card contents so we could make sure everything was set up right.
     
    Last edited by MadMageKefka, Dec 22, 2016
  13. JCCG1989
    OP

    JCCG1989 GBAtemp Fan

    Member
    434
    188
    Jul 16, 2016
    Mexico
    Exactly, and that matter is not new in every method, as I described in another post, even I commited idiotic mistakes in the process, based on that I just can guess what impulsive recless kiddos did to brick their units. I'm really sad about the OTPless becase it was a peak in 3DS mod software and there is no proof the fault was in the code, add to it all te effor of Aurora to this community.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Can you please show us the TONS OF PROOF (note we use the word PROOF, not opinions or stories).
     
  14. BobDoleOwndU

    BobDoleOwndU GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,164
    344
    Dec 28, 2013
    Canada
    I heard from another user there were reports of bricks with the OTPless method were frequent enough that somebody would report it happening on IRC at least once per day. Reportedly, as others have stated, bricks were completely random, and a cause could not be found.

    Regardless, OTPless was deemed less safe for beginners (or users in general) than other methods, and since A9LH is generally a one-time procedure for most users, it was removed from the guide.
     
  15. dark_samus3

    dark_samus3 GBAtemp Addict

    Member
    2,314
    1,712
    May 30, 2015
    United States
    As already stated, it's unknown why this happens. However, there is still a chance that we could get something more reliable in the future... Basically, as it is now, the jump we use is out of range of the area FIRM is loaded at in memory. If we get one where this isn't the case (which is down to luck, unfortunately) then we could install OTPless with nothing but a hardmod or DSiwarehax directly from 11.2. However, keep in mind, we had about a 500kB window for the original OTPless, we have, at max, an 8 kB window to be within range of one that makes the new method viable, which is a much lower chance. However, with each new FIRM that the a9lh vuln isn't fixed, we have another chance at it (each chance includes one of 31 keys jumping somewhere for us) all hope isn't completely lost, but the current method is unreliable, it seems... we still have no clue why, though
     
    DrkBeam and RustInPeace like this.
  16. MadMageKefka

    MadMageKefka GBAtemp Maniac

    Member
    1,447
    1,211
    Apr 28, 2016
    United States
    World of ruin
    Plailect wouldn't have removed it if it was just a few idiots bricking from user error. Multiple issues were submitted and the conclusion was that no one could figure out what was causing the bricks. If you wanna see proof of people's stories, go sift throught the otpless brick threads here. I have personal experience with otpless bricks and I know what I'm doing, thats enough for me. If you wish to remain sceptical, that's your choice, but the fact remains that it was decided that it was unsafe, and removed from plailect's guide.
     
    satan89 likes this.
  17. JCCG1989
    OP

    JCCG1989 GBAtemp Fan

    Member
    434
    188
    Jul 16, 2016
    Mexico
    It was removed from the guide because many bricks were reported, period. It had nothing to do with the nature of the brick and the focus Plailect has in his guide is to be the most user-friendly as possible, again, those threads are not PROOF, since there are bricks in good number of CFW procedures, and OTPless brick were minimum compared with all the methods performer, again, can you please show me those "tons of proof"?
     
  18. dark_samus3

    dark_samus3 GBAtemp Addict

    Member
    2,314
    1,712
    May 30, 2015
    United States
    tbh, we've had it fail the arm9 jump before. There's literally no user interaction/error with this, it's all automated and built directly into the binary release. Something is off, and we have no clue what
     
    DrkBeam and RustInPeace like this.
  19. JCCG1989
    OP

    JCCG1989 GBAtemp Fan

    Member
    434
    188
    Jul 16, 2016
    Mexico
    I'm not saying it it impossible to have a faulty code, I was saying that such a great tool should be continued to be developed and community you show more support and even help to Aurora.
     
  20. zoogie

    zoogie simple pimp tool

    Member
    6,236
    7,893
    Nov 30, 2014
    United States
    It's kinda weird to think that just because otpless isn't in the plailect guide anymore, people think it has vanished from existence.
     
    gamesquest1, cravas, Ryccardo and 6 others like this.