(US-Election) So howsabout voting by mail?

[UltraSUPRA]

But you are raising the floor. So poor jobs get better.

And prices go higher.

The story? Sure. But what it stands for (if you work hard you can get a good life, because your earning 'upwards', in a growing economy) isnt active in american society anymore. Statistically. For most, it has changed to "The american dream of just getting by."

So you can't get promotions?

Viable. Dude has a business, hires another dude at low cost, scraps by. If that business doesnt produce 'living wage' for the other dude (lets say incl health insurance), if you raise minimum wage - those business either have to 'become better' or die out. In most cases, bosses cut a little less of the top to keep the business running, in some cases they will make the business leaner (but that leads to reliability problems), so eventually they end up innovating to get back on level (or get an even more viable business). And the ones that cant - die out.

There goes the donut shops. (Except for KK and DD, of course.)

Yes, looking at individual cases sucks. But remember - the idea is, that none of the promises of structural growth are working, service industry accounted for most of new jobs, automation is threatening even more good jobs down the road, and wage growth flatlined. So in the 'do nothing' model you end up with fewer and fewer people being employed, wages still not going up, everyone working taskrabbit and UBER jobs, and then falling out of the system, when a crisis like corona hits ("pseudo" self employed business models you chose between health and livelyhood).
So the idea is, that if you get fired, because you are working a business model that cant afford to pay higher minimum wage - you hopefully get picked up by investment projects that that tax money is supposed to go into. You get retrained. On the other side, you have to get retrained, because there are less 'low qualification' jobs around.

There arent any around (in quantity).

Eradicate the minimum wage, let more small businesses open up, and watch as society flourishes with multiple choices at high payments per hour because the lack of small businesses was likely out of fear that the owners wouldn't be able to sustain themselves.

Unless you dont get education, got sick, got stuck in a service sector job and all 'good jobs' are creating projects in foreign countries (where the growth is). This is not either or. You are correct also - I'm just showing you another scenario. Both are true at the same time. But again, the chances to get a 'good job' (stable, well paying, fullfilling, .. ) have become smaller.

There's always something somewhere.

What do you do with the money then?

Paying off the national debt.

- Some of the changes we are talking about are structural changes (universal health insurance), so if something like this would get esablished, that means sustained higher taxes, but getting something for it in return (better health insurance, or a more pleasant more stable society (f.e.)).

 

[Deleted User]

And prices go higher.

So you can't get promotions?

There goes the donut shops. (Except for KK and DD, of course.)

Eradicate the minimum wage, let more small businesses open up, and watch as society flourishes with multiple choices at high payments per hour because the lack of small businesses was likely out of fear that the owners wouldn't be able to sustain themselves.

There's always something somewhere.

Paying off the national debt.

And how does this relate to us elections?

Moving on, I'll debunk the things you said.
1. Prices won't go higher, redistribution of wealth in increasing the minimum wage does not equal inflation.
2. We are garbage compared to other countries in regards to economic mobility
https://reports.weforum.org/social-...ing_wp_cron=1597971670.0124709606170654296875
3. Eradicating the minimum wage would make things worse not better. Have fun with McDonalds paying you 6 dollars an hour or less. (not impossible, especially since all the big companies are in one group together for the most part. and would choke out any small bushiness)
4 if minimum wage was increased rather than decreased, it would redistribute wealth, meaning getting to the point to start your own business would become easier, not harder. You don't just start a business out of now where with no cash, you need money before hand to start off the right foot.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

Destroying your Credibility with Three Simple Words

redistribution of wealth

Okay, back to being serious.

1. Prices won't go higher, redistribution of wealth in increasing the minimum wage does not equal inflation.

Increased pricing would be the only thing small businesses could do to maintain a good amount of staff.

Eradicating the minimum wage would make things worse not better. Have fun with McDonalds paying you 6 dollars an hour or less. (not impossible, especially since all the big companies are in one group together for the most part. and would choke out any small bushiness)

Eradicating the minimum wage would, if anything, expose and weed out big, greedy businesses that would turn to sweatshop work if given the option. Small businesses would flourish, and you would make what you earn, encouraging people to work longer and harder for bigger, fatter paychecks.

if minimum wage was increased rather than decreased, it would redistribute wealth, meaning getting to the point to start your own business would become easier, not harder. You don't just start a business out of now where with no cash, you need money before hand to start off the right foot.

And then the money runs out.

 

[Deleted User]

Destroying your Credibility with Three Simple Words
"redistribution of wealth"

That's called social mobility Hun. Money doesn't get printed out of thin air. We already know the top 1% has nearly 95% of the wealth. bumping up wages, would make it less atrocious. really enjoying how hard your trying.

Okay, back to being serious.

Oh good I don't feel like I am dealing with a clown, don't tell me,
I'm about to experience the circus

Increased pricing would be the only thing small businesses could do to maintain a good amount of staff.

Nope, called raising the minimum wage.

Eradicating the minimum wage would, if anything, expose and weed out big, greedy businesses that would turn to sweatshop work if given the option. Small businesses would flourish, and you would make what you earn, encouraging people to work longer and harder for bigger, fatter paychecks.


And then the money runs out.

C L O W N
music

I just explained this one. Don't mind me just going to go quote myself. Also congrats on not refuting any of my arguments. It takes a lot to say nothing.

3. Eradicating the minimum wage would make things worse not better. Have fun with McDonalds paying you 6 dollars an hour or less. (not impossible, especially since all the big companies are in one group together for the most part. and would choke out any small bushiness)
4 if minimum wage was increased rather than decreased, it would redistribute wealth, meaning getting to the point to start your own business would become easier, not harder. You don't just start a business out of now where with no cash, you need money before hand to start off the right foot.

Do you really think in our country, as it is right now, removing the minimum wage would enable small business? when the big fish eat the small?
Your not just the clown, your the whole circus.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

That's called social mobility Hun. Money doesn't get printed out of thin air. We already know the top 1% has nearly 95% of the wealth. bumping up wages, would make it less atrocious. really enjoying how hard your trying.

The 1% got there because they worked hard. You should make what you earn. "Redistribution of wealth" is called communism, and it killed millions.

Nope, called raising the minimum wage.

But how are you going to maintain staff if nobody is coming to your business and you're losing money on your employees?

I just explained this one. Don't mind me just going to go quote myself. Also congrats on not refuting any of my arguments. It takes a lot to say nothing.

I was trying to say that without a minimum wage, people would quit Weyland-Yutani en-masse and find better-paying jobs at the local businesses. Companies can't stay open without workers, no matter how big.

Do you really think in our country, as it is right now, removing the minimum wage would enable small business? when the big fish eat the small?

That's capitalism. It ain't perfect, but it's the best there is.

 

[Deleted User]

The 1% got there because they worked hard. You should make what you earn. "Redistribution of wealth" is called communism, and it killed millions.

I lost it at here, your really a clown. Holy shit.
You know what is also a redistribution of wealth? taxes. You also want to know what is redistribution of wealth? Charity
I guess The states must be severely communist then with your logic.


Hell you must be a commie if you pay taxes 2head

 

[UltraSUPRA]

You know what is also a redistribution of wealth? taxes.

Theft.

You also want to know what is redistribution of wealth? Charity

A choice.

 

[Deleted User]

"You know what is also a redistribution of wealth? taxes."
Theft..

Ah I see, an anti education person. No need to educate anyone, you like dumb people right? Educators are just leeching off the poooor pooor rich people who make over 20x what a normal American will ever make. W-what's that? Needed program? For future? Ah nah capitalism will have the best human interest, just like climate change!


While we are at it, I guess I gotta unplug my veteran grandfather from the hospital, it will only cost his life

 

[UltraSUPRA]

Ah I see, an anti education person. No need to educate anyone, you like dumb people right? Educators are just leeching off the poooor pooor rich people who make over 20x what a normal American will ever make. W-what's that? Needed program? For future? Ah nah capitalism will have the best human interest, just like climate change!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

While we are at it, I guess I gotta unplug my veteran grandfather from the hospital, it will only cost his life

What does any of this have to do with taxation being theft?

 

[Deleted User]

What does any of this have to do with taxation being theft?

Hmm idk, that maybe just leaving this to corperations won't have people's best interest hence why we have taxes, why we have minimum wage. Oh and it's pretty hard to fund the government and regulations if there is no taxes. I mean idk about you, but uranium make up used to sell. Probably would of been introduced into food products and stay that way, since no one is around the go round up business and tell them not to do things.
companies want nothing but profit
If you honestly believe it's theft, that getting a little money taken from everyone to keep a society functioning with paved roads,with a actual functioning government and not axing a veteran who went to war... You need to reevaluate your life decisions if your that fucking petty. And even more petty to believe that, making the richer richer will solve anything, because it simply won't. Capitalism does only profit, it does not consider people. If left alone, business would be choked out, just like how apple had a strangle hold, and still does, over small third party businesses, simply due to apple choking them out.

In other words, I argue taxation isn't theft, it's a social agreement that changes over time, just like how we all agreed to live in a democracy (or supposed to. getting damn close to oligarchy and fascism)
If you don't like taxes, leave the states.

 

[KingVamp]

What does any of this have to do with taxation being theft?

Well, I hope you aren't using any "free" roads. We don't want to encourage thief, now do we?

 

[UltraSUPRA]

Hmm idk, that maybe just leaving this to corperations won't have people's best interest hence why we have taxes, why we have minimum wage. Oh and it's pretty hard to fund the government and regulations if there is no taxes. I mean idk about you, but uranium make up used to sell. Probably would of been introduced into food products and stay that way, since no one is around the go round up business and tell them not to do things.
companies want nothing but profit
If you honestly believe it's theft, that getting a little money taken from everyone to keep a society functioning with paved roads,with a actual functioning government and not axing a veteran who went to war... You need to reevaluate your life decisions if your that fucking petty. And even more petty to believe that, making the richer richer will solve anything, because it simply won't. Capitalism does only profit, it does not consider people. If left alone, business would be choked out, just like how apple had a strangle hold, and still does, over small third party businesses, simply due to apple choking them out.

Did you even read the rest of my post?

In other words, I argue taxation isn't theft, it's a social agreement that changes over time, just like how we all agreed to live in a democracy (or supposed to. getting damn close to oligarchy and fascism)
If you don't like taxes, leave the states.

Do you have any idea what fascism even is?

Well, I hope you aren't using any "free" roads. We don't want encourage thief, now do we?

Have you tried investing in an ATV?

 

[Deleted User]

Did you even read the rest of my post?

what the charity part? That had little to no substance of discussion? Since charity is choice? but still supports my point that redistribution of wealth means many things and it doesn't strictly mean communism?

Do you have any idea what fascism even is?

yes, now do you know the stages of it? Because I do.
https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2018/07/30/Fourteen-Steps-To-Fascism/
tell me that these don't sound very familiar. And what I just linked btw, was made in 1995.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

what the charity part? That had little to no substance of discussion? Since charity is choice? but still supports my point that redistribution of wealth means many things and it doesn't strictly mean communism?

No, the other post. The one where I said that redistribution of wealth is the basis of communism.

yes

 

[Deleted User]

No, the other post. The one where I said that redistribution of wealth is the basis of communism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinesh_D'Souza
huh
let me read this line
"Dinesh Joseph D'Souza (/dɪˈnɛʃ dəˈsuːzə/; born April 25, 1961) is an Indian-born American far-right political provocateur, author, filmmaker, and conspiracy theorist"
did you just piss yourself? or did you forget that PragU is very right leaning? Of course they would defend their own person. Conflict of interest? very.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

No, the other post. The one where I said that redistribution of wealth is the basis of communism.

Pretty sure you have communism conflated with socialism
https://www.thoughtco.com/difference-between-communism-and-socialism-195448
"Ownership of Economic Resources" (communism): All economic resources are publicly owned and controlled by the government. Individuals hold no personal property or assets."
That's not really redistributing wealth, since no one really owns wealth or really money.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinesh_D'Souza
huh
let me read this line
"Dinesh Joseph D'Souza (/dɪˈnɛʃ dəˈsuːzə/; born April 25, 1961) is an Indian-born American far-right political provocateur, author, filmmaker, and conspiracy theorist"
did you just piss yourself? or did you forget that PragU is very right leaning? Of course they would defend their own person. Conflict of interest? very.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Gentile

Pretty sure you have communism conflated with socialism
https://www.thoughtco.com/difference-between-communism-and-socialism-195448
"Ownership of Economic Resources" (communism): All economic resources are publicly owned and controlled by the government. Individuals hold no personal property or assets."
That's not really redistributing wealth, since no one really owns wealth or really money.

0:0 is still an equal ratio. It's still Marxism, regardless.

 

[Deleted User]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Gentile

Oh you thought I just linked a random person for no reason?
You do realize the person I linked, is the person in that video. Guess you weren't really fact checking.

0:0 is still an equal ratio.

That's one of hell of a stretch. I also guess you didn't read the thing I sent you. so here's the socialism part

"Ownership of Economic Resources (socialism): individuals own personal property but all industrial and production capacity is communally owned and managed by a democratically elected government."
Realize the significant difference, one is owned by government. the other is not. (to boil that down. each corperation head is democratically elected in socialism. Meaning that someone technically owns it. While in communism there is no such thing as business, the government is the business." There is no wealth to have in communism, you work harder you get the same. And it's not money, same food, same housing.
Now if you trying to put me into the "he's a commie" box. You would be sadly wrong. Since I am capitalist, and communism is the exact opposite to captalism

 

[UltraSUPRA]

Oh you thought I just linked a random person for no reason?
You do realize the person I linked, is the person in that video. Guess you weren't really fact checking.

No, I noticed. I posted my link because I wanted you to know that the video wasn't a conspiracy itself.
Giovanni Gentile created fascism, inspired by Karl Marx.

That's one of hell of a stretch. I also guess you didn't read the thing I sent you. so here's the socialism part

"Ownership of Economic Resources (socialism): individuals own personal property but all industrial and production capacity is communally owned and managed by a democratically elected government."

So all businesses are owned by the government. Meaning small businesses can't even exist.

 

[Deleted User]

No, I noticed. I posted my link because I wanted you to know that the video wasn't a conspiracy itself.
Giovanni Gentile created fascism, inspired by Karl Marx."

wasn't saying that fascism was a conspiracy, was bringing up the guy is a conspiracy theorist along with supporting the far-right. which destroys his overall credibility (why would I bring it up if it was a conspiracy, be pretty stupid)

So all businesses are owned by the government. Meaning small businesses can't even exist.

Let me just put them side by side.
"Ownership of Economic Resources (socialism): individuals own personal property but all industrial and production capacity is communally owned and managed by a democratically elected government."

"Ownership of Economic Resources" (communism): All economic resources are publicly owned and controlled by the government. Individuals hold no personal property or assets."

I don't know if you see the difference, so let me bold it for you.
Communism means you share with everyone.
Socialism means you have your own belongings. Second it also means that you don't exactly own the business, people have to elect you to own it.

How does this go back to distribution of wealth? Due to having belongings which hold value, that would be more a redistribution of wealth (socialism) since at any moment you can be booted from your position if your peers disagree. and implied money/income. While communism isn't that, since technically no one person has wealth since it's all in the public.

Now Let's go back to wages. And just explain how it doesn't fit.
In a capitalist society, you still own things. Already goes against communism. Second people at the top are still going to be at the top in capitalism. This does not change the social hierarchy. Only what a wage increase does is increase social mobility, or the chance to reach the top. Not topple the entire hierarchy.
As say, a full socialism and communism.

Therefore, (minimum) Wages are not communist.

 

[Sicklyboy]

Eradicating the minimum wage would, if anything, expose and weed out big, greedy businesses that would turn to sweatshop work if given the option. Small businesses would flourish, and you would make what you earn, encouraging people to work longer and harder for bigger, fatter paychecks.

Minimum wage is lowered to absolute peanuts/eliminated.
John Q Public has an even harder time gathering the capital through regular jobs to start his own business.
John Q Public wants to take out a loan to start his business but isn't approved because of how little he makes.
John Q Public keeps working his $4 an hour job because that's all MegaCorp is paying their employees and his best shot at saving up money to get his business started. He has an even harder time making ends meet now because he's making less than before yet the general market has not adjusted for the lower baseline wages that the majority of the workforce is making, so he can't save much money to get his business started anyway.

John Q Public's small business is not flourishing because it died before it was even born.