<!--quoteo(post=3240700:date=Nov 2 2010, 03:02 PM:name=TrolleyDave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TrolleyDave @ Nov 2 2010, 03:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3240700"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I actually agree with that statement, but the problem is how many people are thinking for themselves and how many are thinking along the longs of propaganda pushed by those with their own agenda. There's a whole heap of social engineering going on in society today that most soak up without realising. A perfect example is the current catchphrase "Not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims". You'd be surprised how often that phrase is bandied about and people actually believe it, when in actual fact acts of terrorism committed by Muslims is relatively low comparatively.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, there is propaganda, but it's not a one way street. Take those <a href="http://www.debka.com/article/9105/" target="_blank">standing trial</a> in iran, there is no proof that they did such a thing. It's a show trial for the persian pimp Ahmadinejad. Basically, it's not a religious faction, it's a political movement, al-Qaida and the taliban not only attack those of western descent, but there fellow practitioners of Islam. I realize that almost all those who practice there faith are not radicals, but there is always the chance that a small amount will try to gain influence.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's a reason that stories like that are rare. It's not simply because not everyone has the spirit and will to do it. Plus, isn't it just the right thing to do. Socialised medicine is just the right thing to do. Isn't the health of your nation worth a few of dollars? Or is your money more important to you than the health and welfare of other citizens? How much do you pay each month towards your health insurance?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hospitals in the united states will help, if not outright pay for your bill if you can not pay the bill for your visit, take <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act" target="_blank">EMTALA</a> for example. Most of the time, the hospital can keep out of the red. But, on occasion one might fail. especially on the <a href="http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/050616_nd.htm" target="_blank">Mexican border</a>.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't worry, I know all about philanthropists. They really are a rare breed though. Most stinking rich people aren't like that though, it's actually a very small portion. Most believe similar to you, why should their money go to help other people. My view is that they live in a country that allows them the privilege of earning that money so therefore they should be contributing back to that country. Does Bill Gates really need all that money? Does anyone really need a billion dollars? Think of your country as a giant house. It's up to each and every tenant to look after it. The more you have to contribute the more you should contribute. Yes I agree that no-one should stop anyone from becoming stinking rich. But once you become stinking rich you owe a debt to the society that helped you become that stinking rich. Think of what 10mil could do for society. Now would someone with a billion dollars really miss it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so, here are <a href="http://givingpledge.org/#enter" target="_blank">some more</a> philanthropists around 40, going to give away a majority if not all of there fortunes. is that not enough? <a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2010/0804/Billionaires-pledge-125-billion-to-Bill-Gates-charity-drive" target="_blank">allot</a> of money is given away to charity every year.
here is a little excerpt.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->According to the Merrill-Capgemini 2010 World Wealth Report, North America's wealthiest donate about $200 billion annually. <u><b>That figure comes from charitable contributions from people making $1 million or more.</b></u><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
those who still do not make that much still donate as much as possible.
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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are mistaking liberalism for socialism. It's liberalism that believes that those in prisons should live comfortably. I agree with you that they should be punished. The penal system in the UK is a joke. Perfect example is the bloke who was banged up for trolling Facebook sites. He got more time than the average mugger. Which one is really more dangerous to soceity? One of them cause people to get their feelings hurt and one of them caused someone to be psychologically scarred. I know who deserves the tougher punishment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
your right, that is outrageous. But is it not socialist to <u>force</u> others to <u>help</u> others? it should be a personal decision, not the governments decision. The government has no right to force you to do something, even if it is for a good cause. remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Welcome to the Chicago School of Economics version of capitalism. Where people are commodities and profits are more valuable. Personally I believe that terrorists should be executed. Don't care what your religion, country of origin or politics is. You commit mass murder you pay with your life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, he should be executed. I agree with you there. anyone who commits murder should be executed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In all honesty my opinion is that America is better off with the Democrats than the Republics. Both are pretty much the same as each other, both sides of the same coin if you get me, but the Republican route is a quicker road to Corprotism and Corprotism is something I oppose with every fibre of my being. Yep, I did totally misunderstand what you mean by assimilation. My apologies. What you're speaking of is adapting, and I'm fully behind that. That's one of the things with multi-culturalism that needs to be fine tuned. Although I don't agree with the baseball thing as to me that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't fly the St Georges cross at a Welsh national football game myself and don't really understand why anyone would except to annoy the host country.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well, I guess you wouldn't like <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/03/republicans-capture-house-historic-wave-make-gains-senate/" target="_blank">this</a> story then <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> I agree, they are basically the same thing. But this is different, last night's election wasn't a vote for the GOP, it was a vote for the TEA party. Yes, it will push twords Globalization, but that will only happen when left wingers such as <a href="http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/10/10/facebook_founders_are_backers_of_legal_weed_in_california" target="_blank">these</a>, and morons such as george Soros.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However, if you're English living in America and England play the US in an international football game I don't see the problem of supporting your country of origin if you live in the US.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not like that, not at all.
look at it this way, you have someone from France, and you have someone from Deutschland. the German is a legal citizen in Deutschland, but the frenchmen illegally crossed the border and set up a new life, bought a new home and is not serious about assimilating. now imagine that there are 100's of thousands of illegal frenchmen who commit no crimes at all, to extremely graphic crimes. the world cup is coming up, and to make it even better, it's being held in your home town. Imagine the surprise that not only is it being held in your home town, which you are so proud of. that your neighbors and countrymen show up to the stadium, and your all excited.. you look up, and there is a 15' X 25' french flag flowing in the breeze. you go on up to the ticket booth and ask why that flag is flown above your flag, "remember, there's 100's of thousands of illegal frenchmen living in the country." the person tell's you that the owner of the station is an illegal french national and wishes to show support for his home country instead of Deutschland.
wouldn't that make your day sour, wouldn't that ruin the whole trip. to piss you off and prevent you from having a good time?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like I say, for me a country is much much more than that. I do mostly support the idea. There's nothing really wrong with a bilingual nation if that's how the nation has evolved. Wales is a pretty good example of it. It was different back in the 80's, the English were hated with a passion. These days it's a very different story though. I can't speak Welsh and I get by perfectly fine. However I live here out of necessity rather than choice, my personal preference would be England. People choosing to live here however should learn the language as my opinion is that you should only move to a country because you admire their lifestyle, culture, politics and the like. When it comes to people choosing to move to England and make their life there then they should learn English and use that in their day to day life outside their home. There should be no communities where people can get by without learning the common language. And I know all about Quebec, I lived in Canada for 12 years. However that's a pretty poor example. There are many countries around the world where there are multiple languages spoken and there's still community cohesion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One language allows us to work together, to pull in the same direction, and to communicate effectively with one another. Progress stops when people can't communicate with each other. Ever hear of the biblical account of the Tower of Babel? Go read it sometime (Gen. 11:1-9) and you'll see that anyone who insists several languages are better than one is wrong. In fact, every current study has shown that children who are immersed into the national language when they immigrate do better in school.
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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like I say, I disagree with multi-culturalism when it means that there are segregated communities. It's not something that should happen and it causes divides and festering animosity from the host culture. Both sides are usually at fault when it happens though. Look at it like this. If a Bangladeshi Muslim moved next door to you would you welcome him to the neighbourhood? Would you pop round and say hi, welcome, if you ever need any help or anything don't hesitate to give me a knock? Alot of people wouldn't. So people immigrating tend to gravitate towards areas where they do feel welcome and it then becomes a vicious circle. Both the host and guest culture is at fault in those regards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have no problem with Legal Immigrants, I would do all that i could to help them if it is needed, but Illegal immigrants I do have a problem with, simply follow the laws like everyone else and LEGALLY IMMIGRATE. there is a reason we get so pissed off, it's not simply because we do not like you, that's not it at all. take <a href="http://bedbugregistry.com/" target="_blank">bedbugs</a> for example, from <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Bedbug" target="_blank">wikipedia</a>.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the arrival of potent pesticides, famously DDT in the 1940s, bedbugs almost disappeared in western countries. However, <u>in recent years bedbug infestations have resurged the cause of which not clear, but complacency, increased resistance, and increased international travel being seen as contributing factors</u>. The current wave of bed bug infestations across America has spawned an industry for bed bug prevention, eradication and the reporting of infestations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, I'll let you know, you should stop using the Daily Mail to prove points. In this country it's looked at like a paper version of Fox News. It's a sensationalist paper usually referred to as The Daily Fail by most UK citizens. The only people who really read are the ones who use it to justify their own paranoia, fears and bigotry. They print as many retractions as they do news stories! lol Most Muslims in Britain do actually integrate into the community. The percentage that don't is actually quite small. The ones that don't are usually the fundamentalists, and are usually British born. It's a hard one to explain, but in the majority of cases you wouldn't even know you were speaking to a Muslim unless you actually outright asked them what their religion was. They generally hang out in their own communities because life and society has shepherded them into that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's funny, because the daily mail is the second largest in circulation, right behind the sun, a left leaning paper. It sounds like there might be some partisan dictations there, so I am not going into that, I will use the sources as I see fit, and I try to use them from as many different organizations as possible, to try not to outright push one group for sources.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And I'll fill you in on something that most people don't know. Mass immigration is actually an extreme capitalism tactic. The more people there are the harder it is to find work. The harder it is to find work the more scared people are of losing their job. The more scared people are of losing their job the less likely they are to ask for rights, better working conditions and pay rises. The less a company has to spend the more profits it makes. The more profits it makes the richer their shareholders become. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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o.0 and the horse you road in on.... wait, what? that's pure opinion, not to mention pretty much bullshit. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's the economy stupid!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> of course people are going to get fired, that's the way the system works, this shit would not have happened if there wasn't so many illegal immigrants!
break law/jump border-->get together with a group of twenty families and live in a one family home/with Illegal mortgage-->Ice Bust's them, and there all deported-->Mortgage fail's. Multiply that by about 100,000 and add in credit card debt's that do not get payed back, alongside the <u><b>FEDERAL GOVERNMENT</b></u> intervening on behalf of the illegal aliens "for the votes." to force banks to give risky loans they know will not get payed back!
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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, that's what's generally known as a puff piece. It's propaganda pure and simple and has been debunked on several occasions. I know plenty of Muslims who only have 2 children, just as most of the "indigenous" British families living here actually have 2 or 3 kids. British families having 1.6 kids is a distortion of statistics. Have a read of the link I provided in my previous post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You believe what you want, me? I am going with Angela Merkel on this one.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Germany is a society of eighty million people, with more than seven million foreignborn. No other nation in Europe has as many foreigners.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->About 75 percent of the Turks in the world who live outside Turkey are in Germany.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
idk about you, but i think Deutschland had enough of Gerhard Schroeder's lies and voted her in for some real change.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This statement actually gave me one of the best laughs I've had in a very long time! Again, you've quoted the Daily Mail which really isn't a good start. Prostitution is no more prevalent here than it is in America. It's slightly less of a taboo here because British society isn't quite as puritan as it is in America, but it's still illegal here. If you think that story is a common practice here then you need to switch off Fox News and stop reading Daily Mail articles. Yes we have kiddy fiddlers here, but it's not acceptable. And if you think there's no child prostitution in America then you don't know your country very well!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I heard that on FIX news network, FOX is the cnn of the past, and will be the msnbc of the future. There is no true news network, just left wingers working behind the scenes. I am glad you got a laugh out of that, I am sure that you will get a good laugh out of <a href="http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/uk.htm" target="_blank">this</a>. what about this, is this normal? sure it seems out of the norm, but hey the mother say it's <i>normal</i> to have children that age. but then again, let's open the floodgates to all immigrant's, sex at 9 sure sounds like a good time to all the freaks out there, now doesn't it?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Again, this problem is nowhere near as bad as you think it is or have been led to believe. I used to go out pubbing and clubbing every night for near enough 15 years and it was actually rare to see this kind of thing. Most British women, while a little more liberated when it comes to sex, aren't just tarts. What you're referring to here is a sub-culture. Chavs (as they're more commonly referred to as) are becoming an epidemic, it's still a small proportion of our population. It's just that they're also the loudest, the dumbest and the easiest to pick on. Plus their stupidity makes for good humour. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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If they where raised properly, and where actually told NO! once or twice, they probably wouldn't act that way, now would they? instead they have everything handed to them like in greece... I think we know how that's turning out.
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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Erm, left wing violence? The attack in that story had nothing to do with the left wing. Left wing violence is different, and is usually directed at very different people. In fact, the chances of the left wing in this country attacking someone like that is virtually nil. The right wing would, but not the left wing. This attack is just wannabe "gangstas" who've listened to too much 50 Cent and think it's cool to be a bellend thug. I agree that kids shouldn't be allowed to run riot and should be told to cut the shit. I've nearly lost jobs for smacking kids round the back of the head and telling them off when their parents have been to dumb to do it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't talking about that story in particular anymore, I was talking about the scum over here.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yep, guns are banned in the UK. Recently though there's been a huge boom in their use. I blame the importation of American hip-hop "gangsta" culture. The "gangsta" hip-hop culture has legitimised criminal and gang behaviour. It's made it acceptable, because it can lead to a career in music. When I was a kid the only people that carried guns where the very serious criminals who rarely used them. Since the explosion of the drug market in the late nineties it's become more and more common, and in the last 5 or so years has become a plague. As I say, American culture has infected ours in some very negative ways. I know not everyone runs around dressed in gang colours shooting each other, but if you don't think it's an epidemic in the US then you really need to start learning more. Again, I blame the "gangsta" rap culture for legitimising it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, Gangsterism is pushed by the rap culture a democratic strong hold, who get a pass whenever they say anything offensive, unlike the other side of the spectrum where if someone says anything conservative, and it's offensive to some, there dogged for months, if not years.
take Ludacris's rap song "Politics"
here is an excerpt
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't stop what's bout to happen, we bout to make history
<b>The first black president is destined and it's meant to be
The threats ain't fazing us, the nooses or the jokes
So get off your ass, black people, it's time to get out and vote!</b>
<u>Paint the White House black and I'm sure that's got 'em terrified
McCain don't belong in any chair unless he's paralyzed
Yeah I said it cause Bush is mentally handicapped</u>
Ball up all of his speeches and I throw 'em like candy wrap
'cause what you talking I hear nothing even relevant
and you the worst of all 43 presidents<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is the bold not offensive to some, and the underlined.. if anyone with conservative leanings would say something like that, they would be so banished, they would have to change there name and start a new life in another country.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While I agree with the father figure part, I don't agree with the religion part. Nobody needs religion. Society as a whole would be much better off without religion, it actually retards its evolution. What's needed is a more philosophical and social based education, rather than an education that prepares you as a commodity for corporations and businesses.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's fine, you do not have to agree on religion at all, I am just simply stating my opinion. Religion is more of a guide for the human race, If you boil all of them down, it comes to one single thing, treat other's as you would like to be treated, that's all the education you need!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd definitely be interested in seeing the DVD. Can't promise that I won't come back after watching it and rip it to bits, but I'll definitely watch it. I'm always interested in that kind of thing. To be honest I disagree with his banned. Just as I disagree with those who try to have Nick Griffin banned from public speaking. I may disagree with what they're saying with every ounce of decency I have in me but it's up to those who oppose him to protest and educate. There were a couple months where I agreed with the banning of Geert Wilders from the country, but not because of his views. The EDL used his words and his film Fitna to justify their hatred of anyone non-White. His words could have sparked riots all across the country. Since that time he has denounced the EDL and everything they stand for. He also made a public statement saying he didn't want their support. Since then I couldn't give a toss about him coming here and speaking. Again, it's up to those who oppose him to protest and educate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyone who is in denial of the Holocaust is obviously a little out there, Nick Griffin has the right to say what he want's, it doesn't mean he's right or smart. or wrong or stupid, it's him just being him. I do have a personal question for you though Dave, Have you actually ever been to an EDL rally? I am not talking to support them, I am just saying been there, I have been the the Glenn Beck tea party rally, and I have to say, the media is so wrong on it, it's not even funny! You have to experience some of these things for yourself, you cant rely on others to tell the truth 100% of the time.
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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I kind of get the feeling that you believe I'm in the extreme left wing camp. I'm not. I don't follow a particular dogma, I've studied alot of political and economic structures ranging from Stalinism to Islam. I don't pick a political or economic sphere. I believe in a mix of politics and economics. All that matters to me is whats best for the people of my country, the communities in my country and my country. I believe in a certain amount of liberalism, communism, socialism, capitalism and even certain aspects of fascism.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's all well and good, like I said, I am not trying to push you in any one direction, it's your opinion, and I am not going to try to force the issue.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No need to apologise! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> The only reason my family calls me David is because my Dads name is Dave as well. lol David just doesn't sit right with me outside of the family cos it sounds a little too posh!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hate being called andy to be honest, I remember back in kindergarten that's all they would call me and i was sent to the principles office, GOOD TIMES!! lol
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Globalism is Corporatism under a different banner. It sounds more palatable and less like we're heading towards the kind of future portrayed in 1984 and Blade Runner. You're right, they are fighting for their freedom to practice religion. But they were in that position because of the deranged belief of a nation that their bloodline was the most superior on the planet and that certain other ethnic origins and religious practitioners were lower than human. This too is what the EDL believe. If you look deeper into them you'll see that the EDL are a modern version of the Nazi's. They believe that Muslims should be forced into ghettos, some of them even going as far as saying they should be put into concentration camps and gassed. Hell, I've even seen several say that Milosevic had "the right idea". They believe in ethnically cleansing the UK of all Muslims. Which really boils down to wanting to rid Britain of anyone who isn't White as for them ethnicity=religion. I've seen plenty of them call White Muslims "race traitors". Hence why the film is a perfect example of why organisations like the EDL should be chased out of any town they try to preach their hate in. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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I am going to take your word for that, as I don't actually live there, never have and probably never will. If that's true, it's a dispicable act, and they should be jailed or worse.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't worry, sometimes I'm away for days at a time. I know how life can be. Hell, it's just taken me all day to reply to this simply cos so many people have been calling at the house! lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well, got stuck watching the elections and then stayed up till 4:30 for results. then found our dog on the side of the highway dead today so It has been pretty rough, it's 12:30 AM here, so I am going to bed, i'll probably respond within the next two days, <a href="http://www.megavideo.com/?d=AZBXB46V" target="_blank">here</a> is the freedom of speech rip, enjoy.
btw, prop 19 failed *celebrates* <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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it took 6 tabs open in ff to post this reply, stupid quote limit LOL.
...seriously.... your reading all this ?_?