The EDL got a spanking in Amsterdam!

[TrolleyDave]

So today was the day the English Defence League were due to hold their demonstration in the Dam in support of Geert Wilders. The thought of a bunch of racist fascists turning up there and running riot like they've been doing for the last year in England didn't sit too well with the residents and the EDL were greeted with some pretty heavy resistance. From what I can gather a quite sizable amount of people turned up to greet them at the train station and give them a "warm" welcome. The EDL got a bit of a spanking from hardcore Ajax supporters, Dutch Antifa and just plain old regular residents and were sent home with their tails between their legs. Nice one Amsterdam!

 

[Pliskron]

This is good but those same people should show up when violent islamists call for the deaths of artists ans writers. I don't agree with the tactics but there's no doubt that Islam will drag Europe into a 3rd world hell hole compleat with sharia law and honor killings if those new immigrants aren't assimilated. The edl is a result of failed assimilation and immigration policy.

 

[scrtmstr]

little Dutch video
they got their asses kicked, that's for sure. Glad they didn't get any chance to demonstrate

 

[TrolleyDave]

This is good but those same people should show up when violent islamists call for the deaths of artists ans writers.

Believe it or not I actually agree with that statement. People should protest against those that seek to install an Islamic government and the Sharia judicial/penal system. Hell, show me a group in the UK that even stands the slightest chance of doing it successfully and I'll lead the resistance movement. Luckily I know our political system enough to know that without a full-scale invasion of our country it's nigh on impossible for it to happen. And no, even if you were to believe the Christian right-wing's idiotic "invasion by breeding" propaganda, in this country it's still impossible.

I don't agree with the tactics but there's no doubt that Islam will drag Europe into a 3rd world hell hole compleat with sharia law and honor killings if those new immigrants aren't assimilated.

The implementation of the Sharia judicial/penal system is impossible in this country. And honour killings permitted in a secular country with laws based of the European Human Rights declaration? Just not gonna happen. Don't be fooled by emotionally blackmailing propaganda.

QUOTE

The edl is a result of failed assimilation and immigration policy.

I'll half-way agree with you. The success of the EDL amognst regular Britons is down to a few problems with multi-culturalism, but the EDL is not a result of it. The EDL is a rebranding of the BNP made more palatable for the average man on the streets. For some of the people at the bottom it really is about protesting against radicals, sharia and all the rest. For those at the top it's about the propagation of the BNP agenda and race. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[TLSS_N]

first of all, i think some people here are drinking a little to much into the socialist cool aid, Geert Wilders is a damned athiest! he has no religion and that is his own choice! Mr. Wilders simply wishes to protect the country that he loves, and not have it over run with people who say "yea, I am here illegally, screw you! i want to be taken care of by others, and i do not want to work to make the country better, learn the language/culture" they simply wish to force there culturalism down the throats of any and all who protest. take a look at what Angela Merkel recently said. that Multiculti feelgoodism does not work! they need to contribute or GTFO.

otherwise, eroupe as a whole is going to turn into the next Greece.

 

[ThatDudeWithTheFood]

Idk what this EDL is so can someone explain?

 

[SonicRax]

Idk what this EDL is so can someone explain?

The EDL = The English Defence League, a far-right group based in the U.K. (or England >_>). Search for it on Wiki.

 

[BlueStar]

Idk what this EDL is so can someone explain?

Video:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/28/e...n-investigation

 

[TLSS_N]

Idk what this EDL is so can someone explain?

You can pretty much read about it here.

It basically counteracts people like al-Muhajiroun, who has said in the past.

QUOTEthis country is rife with social and economic problems and only Islam has the answer. Muslims are multiplying at a rate eight times faster than the kaffir [infidel]," he said in a speech to al-Muhajiroun's members. "In a couple of generations this will be a Muslim country, inshallah [if Allah wills it]. We will dominate this country, my brothers, and implement the beauty and perfection of Islam.

now, I am just quoting that to show what the group is trying to prevent, NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE LIKE THAT!

 

[TrolleyDave]

first of all, i think some people here are drinking a little to much into the socialist cool aid.

Anybody who loves his country and his fellow countrymen should fully embrace certain elements of socialism for it.

Geert Wilders is a damned athiest! he has no religion and that is his own choice! Mr. Wilders simply wishes to protect the country that he loves, and not have it over run with people who say "yea, I am here illegally, screw you! i want to be taken care of by others, and i do not want to work to make the country better, learn the language/culture" they simply wish to force there culturalism down the throats of any and all who protest. take a look at what Angela Merkel recently said. that Multiculti feelgoodism does not work! they need to contribute or GTFO.

otherwise, eroupe as a whole is going to turn into the next Greece.

There's nothing wrong with having nationalist leanings. I believe a country should adopt a certain amount of nationalism. However, loving your country and culture doesn't mean you have to hate or ban others. Multi-culturalism as it is at the moment does have it's failings, but it's relatively young and needs fine tuning. I totally disagree that that people moving here should assimilate or leave. They should adapt I agree, but assimilate no. Full multi-culturalism will never be a workable practice, but hosting other cultures is a workable practice. In most cases the children, grandchildren etc. do adopt the British way of life while still preserving their parents, grandparents etc. culture at home. There are of course those that don't, but that's true of any culture. English people are well known for moving to another country and turning parts of it into Little England. I'm guilty of not assimilating, I've adapted but I've never adopted.

Idk what this EDL is so can someone explain?

You can pretty much read about it here.

It basically counteracts people like al-Muhajiroun, who has said in the past.

QUOTE

this country is rife with social and economic problems and only Islam has the answer. Muslims are multiplying at a rate eight times faster than the kaffir [infidel]," he said in a speech to al-Muhajiroun's members. "In a couple of generations this will be a Muslim country, inshallah [if Allah wills it]. We will dominate this country, my brothers, and implement the beauty and perfection of Islam.

now, I am just quoting that to show what the group is trying to prevent, NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE LIKE THAT!

That's what the spin says. If you look deeper into the EDL it's a completely different story. And that "Muslim birth rates" thing is a terrible bit of propaganda from both sides. It relies on every single Muslim in each generation having 6-8 children and every single non-Muslim in each generation have 1-2 children. Anybody who lives in the real world in Britain knows that most British people have 2-4 kids.

If the British culture is at threat from any other culture it's the American one. We'll be called the United Kingdom of America long before there's any chance of anyone turning us into a Caliph.

 

[TLSS_N]

Anybody who loves his country and his fellow countrymen should fully embrace certain elements of socialism for it.

I would have to disagree with that, anyone who loves there country and fellow citizens legal or illegal should not embrace any type of economic system, that is a dangerous road, even if it is just parts of any particular system.

for example, why should it be on my dime to support someone who just so happens to be addicted to drugs, is it my fault that they have a weak constitution? why should i have to pay for there dental care and health care? do you really that people such as this deserve pitty, do you? let me take it a step farther.. do they deserve to get world class medical care, three meals a day, get to watch television, socialize with others and have the many comforts of a modest life while they serve there time in prison? i really doubt that's exactly fair for the other families.

There's nothing wrong with having nationalist leanings. I believe a country should adopt a certain amount of nationalism. However, loving your country and culture doesn't mean you have to hate or ban others. Multi-culturalism as it is at the moment does have it's failings, but it's relatively young and needs fine tuning. I totally disagree that that people moving here should assimilate or leave. They should adapt I agree, but assimilate no. Full multi-culturalism will never be a workable practice, but hosting other cultures is a workable practice. In most cases the children, grandchildren etc. do adopt the British way of life while still preserving their parents, grandparents etc. culture at home. There are of course those that don't, but that's true of any culture. English people are well known for moving to another country and turning parts of it into Little England. I'm guilty of not assimilating, I've adapted but I've never adopted.

I would like to choose illegal imigration for this particular matter, for 50+ years residents of mexico, most if not all south american countries, chinese and many, many other countries have illegally entered the united states. they to, have a since of nationalism, but the problem is they have had and still have plenty of time to learn the national language, adapt to the culture, and assimilate to work for a better tomorrow. not sit around and collect welfare checks to send back to there families or god knows what else. it's like flying a mexican flag at a teaball/baseball game. it just isn't done. it's spittting in the face of what this nation stands for, Borders Language and Culture.

QUOTE

That's what the spin says. If you look deeper into the EDL it's a completely different story. And that "Muslim birth rates" thing is a terrible bit of propaganda from both sides. It relies on every single Muslim in each generation having 6-8 children and every single non-Muslim in each generation have 1-2 children. Anybody who lives in the real world in Britain knows that most British people have 2-4 kids.

If the British culture is at threat from any other culture it's the American one. We'll be called the United Kingdom of America long before there's any chance of anyone turning us into a Caliph.

it's not just a problem in Britain, it's a world wide problem. take Italy for example, the birthrate there is in the can, lower than dirt. there are literally more children born of Immigrants , legal and illegal. that there are of those whose parents and great grandparents etc, who where born there.

I really doubt that a cultural-ism change can be blamed on America, I mean after all, we do not have this, this or this going on at all, yet you guys do? that's like saying disgraced former home secretary Jacqui Smith did a great job, I think we all know how that all turned out.

now, David IF I may call you that, I have nothing against you personally, it's just the state of politics in the world in which we live today. If I may suggest a movie for you to watch, I think you might enjoy it, it's a great story and it is true. It has several different creeds and Political affiliations. Unfortunately it isn't that well known. I am only suggesting it so that I can be a friendly individual, but be forewarned it's quite violent. not for children, the film in question can be reviewed here.

 

[Vulpes Abnocto]

I love Amsterdam a little more each and every day.

 

[_Chaz_]

WOOOOOOOO

 

[mameks]

EDL=Idiots, imo. Their actions are formed from ignorant, irrational opinions.
Go Amsterdam!

WOOOOOOOO

Spammer

I'd say the same of Vulpes, but he'd probably ban me, saying "You didn't see anything"

 

[TrolleyDave]

<!--quoteo(post=3235829:date=Oct 31 2010, 03:52 AM:name=The Living Shadow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Living Shadow @ Oct 31 2010, 03:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3235829"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would have to disagree with that, anyone who loves there country and fellow citizens legal or illegal should not embrace any type of economic system, that is a dangerous road, even if it is just parts of any particular system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Wait what? Of course they should embrace parts or whole of an economic system if they believe that it's best for their country. How else is a country to survive and flourish if it doesn't have direction. You do realise that the extreme capitalism ideology that the US runs on is still an economic system don't you?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->for example, why should it be on my dime to support someone who just so happens to be addicted to drugs, is it my fault that they have a weak constitution? why should i have to pay for there dental care and health care? do you really that people such as <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Russell_Williams" target="_blank">this</a> deserve pitty, do you? let me take it a step farther.. do they deserve to get world class medical care, three meals a day, get to watch television, socialize with others and have the many comforts of a modest life while they serve there time in prison? i really doubt that's exactly fair for the other families.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ok, let me throw in this example for you. What about the children of drug addicts. Those who are innocent but caught in a trap because their parents are more concerned with their next hit than whether their kids can get medical treatment. Should the children be punished and made to suffer because their parents are weak-willed? Let's take this a step further to when one of those children reaches an age when they can leave home and begin higher education. That child won't have the benefit of being able to turn to their parents for help with money. They need to take jobs that enable them to live and pay for tuition which fits around their education timetable. The child obviously wants to better themself, they want to become a productive member of society. Should that child have to make the choice between medical treatment or education? Why shouldn't he have every opportunity that a child from a better home has? The money also doesn't have to come just from the average tax-payer. Corporations who earn billions a year in profits should be made to funnel a chunk of that back into the country that allows them the privilege of earning it.

I really don't see the logic behind the prison simile though. I think you may be mistaking liberalism for socialism. Personally I believe prisoners should be entitled to enough food to stop them starving and provide nourishment, education/training and protection from violence committed by guards. Anything more is a privilege and not a right. I don't even believe pedophiles should be kept in protection wings. If you don't want to face the wrath of violent prisoners then don't molest children, simple as.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would like to choose illegal imigration for this particular matter, for 50+ years residents of mexico, most if not all south american countries, chinese and many, many other countries have illegally entered the united states. they to, have a since of nationalism, but the problem is they have had and still have plenty of time to learn the national language, adapt to the culture, and assimilate to work for a better tomorrow. not sit around and collect welfare checks to send back to there families or god knows what else. it's like flying a mexican flag at a teaball/baseball game. it just isn't done. it's spittting in the face of what this nation stands for, Borders Language and Culture.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If illegal immigrants can claim welfare then your welfare system needs overhauling. In this country an illegal can't claim social benefits. And I agree that people moving should to another country should learn to adapt, as I've already said. Assimilating though, no. Why should a Jew or Muslim denounce their faith when moving to country where the majority religion/lack of religion is Christianity/Catholicism/Atheism? Why shouldn't they be proud of both their heritage and the country they live in? I live in Wales at the moment yet I'm flying the St Georges Cross. Should I be made to take it down? And I don't quite get your logic with the flying flags at baseball games?

And a nation stands for much more than borders, language and culture. I think you're mistaking ethnicity for what a country stands for. A country is it's economic policies, the privileges it believes it's citizens deserve, it's education system, how it believes its workers should be treated, it's laws and much much more. The things you mentioned do contribute, but they're a small part.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's not just a problem in Britain, it's a world wide problem. take <a href="http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/mar/10032405.html" target="_blank">Italy</a> for example, the birthrate there is in the can, lower than dirt. there are literally more children born of Immigrants , legal and illegal. that there are of those whose parents and great grandparents etc, who where born there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I've seen several waves of immigration here in the UK during my lifetime. In the 70's there was immigration from the West Indies. It was around that time the National Front really came to prevalence. During that time they promoted propaganda that said that West Indians had 5x the amount of kids that British people had and that within 30 years we would be minorities in our country. That never happened. Then in the 80's we had a wave of immigration from India/Pakistan/Bangladesh. Once again the NF promoted the immigrant birthrates propaganda. By this year we were supposed to be minorities in our country. Unsurprisingly we're not. It's a cycle that continues with each new wave of immigration. The only difference is the branding of the ones promoting it. While yes I'll agree that immigrants on average have more children, there are many socio-economic reasons for it. Usually within a few generations the birthrates for those who are descended from immigrants have settled to the national average - at least here in the UK.

edit : Here's an article you should read. <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8189231.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8189231.stm</a>

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really doubt that a cultural-ism change can be blamed on America, I mean after all, we do not have <a href="http://www2.salvationarmy.org.uk/uki/www_uki.nsf/vw-sublinks/0CB0A2D62F6EC16A80257686005C58CA?openDocument" target="_blank">this</a>, <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222090/Reveller-pictured-knickers-ankles-shocking-scene-UKs-streets-shame.html" target="_blank">this</a> or <a href="http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23852435-2012-olympics-composer-beaten-up-by-teenage-gang.do" target="_blank">this</a> going on at all, yet you guys do? that's like saying disgraced former home secretary Jacqui Smith did a great job, I think we all know how that all <a href="http://www.vosizneias.com/32655/2009/06/02/london-partial-victory-for-michael-savage-home-secretary-jacqui-smith/" target="_blank">turned out</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You've lost me a little here. Are you saying you don't have prostitution in America? Or are you saying you don't have people who advertise prostitution in phone boxes? Or are you saying that you don't have people who love their community enough to want to go around cleaning it up?

Ladette culture is pretty terrible I'll admit, and I'll admit that's a British thing that we haven't imported from anywhere. However, you do have the same thing in America. It might not be so promoted so prevalently but it's there.

As for hoodie culture. That's a very American import. It's a mutation of American gang culture and is relatively new to our country along with kids running around with guns shooting each other over drug turf.

I really don't see the point you're making with the last statement though. Care to expand?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->now, David IF I may call you that, I have nothing against you personally, it's just the state of politics in the world in which we live today. If I may suggest a movie for you to watch, I think you might enjoy it, it's a great story and it is true. It has several different creeds and Political affiliations. Unfortunately it isn't that well known. I am only suggesting it so that I can be a friendly individual, but be forewarned it's quite violent. not for children, the film in question can be reviewed <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Defiance_%282008_film%29" target="_blank">here</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No offence but no, you can't call me David. Feel free to call me Dave, Trolley, TrolleyDave, TD, feel free to even call me Davs which is another one of my nicknames but the right to call me David is reserved for family members. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I agree that the state of politics in the world is disgraceful, but it's mostly caused by an attempt to install a global corporatocracy.

I've seen Defiance. It's an excellent film, and a shining example of why groups like the EDL should be humiliated and run out of any town they try to spread their White nationalist politics.

 

[ThatDudeWithTheFood]

That sounds really retarded governments should be secular any religion dominating a government is wrong.

 

[TLSS_N]

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait what? Of course they should embrace parts or whole of an economic system if they believe that it's best for their country. How else is a country to survive and flourish if it doesn't have direction. You do realise that the extreme capitalism ideology that the US runs on is still an economic system don't you?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I misspoke I was trying to do about a blue million other things while I was typing this up heh sry. What I meant was, that it is a dangerous road to hard line one economic system as a people, each individual should have the right to choose which economic system they prefer, but as a nation the majority of the popular opinion should win.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, let me throw in this example for you. What about the children of drug addicts. Those who are innocent but caught in a trap because their parents are more concerned with their next hit than whether their kids can get medical treatment. Should the children be punished and made to suffer because their parents are weak-willed? Let's take this a step further to when one of those children reaches an age when they can leave home and begin higher education. That child won't have the benefit of being able to turn to their parents for help with money. They need to take jobs that enable them to live and pay for tuition which fits around their education timetable. The child obviously wants to better themself, they want to become a productive member of society. Should that child have to make the choice between medical treatment or education? Why shouldn't he have every opportunity that a child from a better home has? The money also doesn't have to come just from the average tax-payer. Corporations who earn billions a year in profits should be made to funnel a chunk of that back into the country that allows them the privilege of earning it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Have the state take them up for adoption, not all families are physically able to have children, that way they can get the support they need, and if they wish they can still keep in contact with there mother/father. Let me tell you about a woman who was in this same situation in this general area, she lived in Kentucky and her father left her at a very young age. Her mother, a crack head had 4 other children after that. long story short, she left the children with her and just disappeared. do you know what that young 16 year old did? she took on a job, and quit school, joined a night school and worked during the day and went to school at night, making sure that those children had a good home, it was rough but she pulled it off. I heard this on the radio, specifically <a href="http://www.987newstalk.com/showdj.asp?DJID=40738" target="_blank">the Phil show</a> when it was on it's old WNOX station, it was a write in for local College support. Not only did she get college support for her, but the rest of her family! people should not have to be forced to take care of everyone, that's what a community is for! unfortunately, they do not have transcripts that i can locate otherwise, i would have linked the story itself.

a chunk eh? Obviously you have never heard about "these" <a href="http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/EscapeTheRatRace/millionaires-who-gave-it-away.aspx" target="_blank">types</a> of billionaires. Noone is stopping the average american from becoming filthy stinking rich, it's there own decision.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really don't see the logic behind the prison simile though. I think you may be mistaking liberalism for socialism. Personally I believe prisoners should be entitled to enough food to stop them starving and provide nourishment, education/training and protection from violence committed by guards. Anything more is a privilege and not a right. I don't even believe pedophiles should be kept in protection wings. If you don't want to face the wrath of violent prisoners then don't molest children, simple as.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No, I am not mistaking liberalism For socialism. I was talking specifically about the life style there allowed to live, and your right it is a privilage, but why should they be rewaded at all, they broke the law and they need to be punished.
what kind of compassion is it to let Lockerbie Bomber go free? it's not, it's <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6814939.ece" target="_blank">Oil,money and appeasement</a>. He should have been let out in the yard with all of the other inmates and had the guards go on a twenty minuet break, why should the families have to suffer while he can do whatever he wants.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If illegal immigrants can claim welfare then your welfare system needs overhauling. In this country an illegal can't claim social benefits. And I agree that people moving should to another country should learn to adapt, as I've already said. Assimilating though, no. Why should a Jew or Muslim denounce their faith when moving to country where the majority religion/lack of religion is Christianity/Catholicism/Atheism? Why shouldn't they be proud of both their heritage and the country they live in? I live in Wales at the moment yet I'm flying the St Georges Cross. Should I be made to take it down? And I don't quite get your logic with the flying flags at baseball games?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes, it should be reformed! but as a nation we have had a democratic hold for the last 50 years! obviously, there not going to go against there voting block, that is political suicide. I never said that they should renounce there religion, that's what the first amendment is for. and i think you misunderstand what I meant when it comes to them needing to assimilate, I mean that they need to learn the language, join in on a community and be friendly with others, not stay in one neighborhood away from others who just so happen to be different. interact, make friends work for a better tomorrow with everyone, not just people of there particular religion or original nationality. If they have a problem with something, speak up and let there voice be heard! don't sit in the shadows. When it comes to the base ball game analogy, what i meant was that this is america, not mexico, not venezuela, chile etc. this is our national past time, and to fly the flag of another nation is a disgrace to the game, to the nation and to the community.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And a nation stands for much more than borders, language and culture. I think you're mistaking ethnicity for what a country stands for. A country is it's economic policies, the privileges it believes it's citizens deserve, it's education system, how it believes its workers should be treated, it's laws and much much more. The things you mentioned do contribute, but they're a small part.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No, I have boiled them down to what I like to believe a country is. Borders,obviously the area that defines the nation. Language, again this comes back to assimilation, it's been tried before to you go out to the boonies around Quebec, good luck trying to find someone who speaks any english.


<hr><b><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Posts merged<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've seen several waves of immigration here in the UK during my lifetime. In the 70's there was immigration from the West Indies. It was around that time the National Front really came to prevalence. During that time they promoted propaganda that said that West Indians had 5x the amount of kids that British people had and that within 30 years we would be minorities in our country. That never happened. Then in the 80's we had a wave of immigration from India/Pakistan/Bangladesh. Once again the NF promoted the immigrant birthrates propaganda. By this year we were supposed to be minorities in our country. Unsurprisingly we're not. It's a cycle that continues with each new wave of immigration. The only difference is the branding of the ones promoting it. While yes I'll agree that immigrants on average have more children, there are many socio-economic reasons for it. Usually within a few generations the birthrates for those who are descended from immigrants have settled to the national average - at least here in the UK.

edit : Here's an article you should read. <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8189231.stm" target="_blank"><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8189231.stm" target="_blank"><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8189231.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8189231.stm</a></a></a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

idk about that, reading <a href="http://realbusiness.co.uk/employment/the_immigration_captrap" target="_blank">this</a> is pretty much the same thing that happens over here, the biggest and latest example is that of the gulf oil spill, where they hired <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-20/well-boss-kaluza-was-bp-temporary-replacement-on-rig-refuses-to-testify.html" target="_blank">temporary workers</a>. and reading <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-452815/Will-Britain-day-Muslim.html" target="_blank">this</a> article, it would seem that the masses would want to come in for more jobs, and a better population amongst themselves.

let me quote a little from the article.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Consider first at a few chilling statistics. Europeans are failing to reproduce. Just to keep the population steady, you need 2.1 live births per woman.

However, in 2005, the European average was 1.38. In Ireland it was 1.9, France 1.89, Germany 1.35 and Italy 1.23. Britain scored in the middle of this range with 1.6, but that was because - like France - we have a large Muslim population with a high birth rate. Indeed, Muslims are outbreeding non-Muslims throughout Europe.

"Just look at the development within Europe," said a triumphant Norwegian imam a few months ago, "where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children. Our way of thinking will prove more powerful than yours."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You've lost me a little here. Are you saying you don't have prostitution in America? Or are you saying you don't have people who advertise prostitution in phone boxes? Or are you saying that you don't have people who love their community enough to want to go around cleaning it up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Sry for loosing you, like i said i was in a rush when i replied to this.

what i meant was not only is prostitution open in such a way, it is also employing <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1155502/Suspicious-teacher-exposes-double-life-girl-15-earning-100-000-year-upmarket-prostitute.html" target="_blank">children</a>! yes, there are pedophiles out there everywhere, but it's no where near as bad as it is in the UK, what kind of people allow any member of society be exposed to such a vulgar practice, I admit it can't be controlled 100% but that doesn't mean that the general public needs to give up. keep fighting, push it back!

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ladette culture is pretty terrible I'll admit, and I'll admit that's a British thing that we haven't imported from anywhere. However, you do have the same thing in America. It might not be so promoted so prevalently but it's there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yes, people get drunk, people party, and people get a little to crazy, but it is nowhere ABSOLUTELY nowhere as bad as this, I have lived in a fairly large portion of the south eastern part of the united states, and I have never ever seen anything like that at all.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for hoodie culture. That's a very American import. It's a mutation of American gang culture and is relatively new to our country along with kids running around with guns shooting each other over drug turf.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Believe it or not, not all Americans run around with hoods shooting up properties and assaulting Great Musicians, that's mostly left wing violence on the west cost where kids have no structure, they get away with anything they want and have Not been told to cut the act, straighten up and act like a man! I thought that guns where banned in England?

the only example i can think of on the west cost that is similar to that of the musician, is <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/US/bronx-gang-members-beat-tortured-gay-recruit/story?id=11844460" target="_blank">this</a> case. I bet, if those punks had a real father figure, and some religion in there lives none of this disgusting event would have ever happened. but that's the left in this country, anti-religion, pro-sexual/drug use.


<hr><b><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Posts merged<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really don't see the point you're making with the last statement though. Care to expand?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

that was more a sting at the way the government is handling things, even though they say that Dr. Savage was provoking inter community violence, when in reality he was actually reacting to the glasgow bombing saying that if worse comes to worse, and they had a nuke, which would you prefer, for the terrorist to die, alongside those in the surrounding area, or for us to die? he ask's the tough questions that need to be asked. I really don't see anyone else talking about what could happen. I have a copy of his freedom of speech dvd, I am going to try to upload it by next response. not just for you to see, but anyone else who is interested, just to show he's not some nut like the illeberal liberals in the media try to pro tray him as. in the mean time, here is his reaction to being banned, take it for what you will.



<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No offence but no, you can't call me David. Feel free to call me Dave, Trolley, TrolleyDave, TD, feel free to even call me Davs which is another one of my nicknames but the right to call me David is reserved for family members. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I agree that the state of politics in the world is disgraceful, but it's mostly caused by an attempt to install a global corporatocracy.

I've seen Defiance. It's an excellent film, and a shining example of why groups like the EDL should be humiliated and run out of any town they try to spread their White nationalist politics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Dave is fine with me sry bout that xD, that's actually my fathers name, but he likes to be called david so it would just be easier. idk <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

I like to think of it as Glorbalism more than that :S and i guess we just interpreted it differently, i saw it more as fighting for there freedom to practice there religion, and to survive of there own free will, not white nationalist politics.

sry it took me so long to reply, it's been busy the last few days what with Halloween and all, I hope i can reply a little bit quicker next time.

 

[TrolleyDave]

<!--quoteo(post=3239662:date=Nov 2 2010, 06:26 AM:name=The Living Shadow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Living Shadow @ Nov 2 2010, 06:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3239662"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I misspoke I was trying to do about a blue million other things while I was typing this up heh sry. What I meant was, that it is a dangerous road to hard line one economic system as a people, each individual should have the right to choose which economic system they prefer, but as a nation the majority of the popular opinion should win.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No need to apologise, I've been in the same boat! Sometimes you want to answer something but don't have time. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I actually agree with that statement, but the problem is how many people are thinking for themselves and how many are thinking along the longs of propaganda pushed by those with their own agenda. There's a whole heap of social engineering going on in society today that most soak up without realising. A perfect example is the current catchphrase "Not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims". You'd be surprised how often that phrase is bandied about and people actually believe it, when in actual fact acts of terrorism committed by Muslims is relatively low comparatively.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have the state take them up for adoption, not all families are physically able to have children, that way they can get the support they need, and if they wish they can still keep in contact with there mother/father. Let me tell you about a woman who was in this same situation in this general area, she lived in Kentucky and her father left her at a very young age. Her mother, a crack head had 4 other children after that. long story short, she left the children with her and just disappeared. do you know what that young 16 year old did? she took on a job, and quit school, joined a night school and worked during the day and went to school at night, making sure that those children had a good home, it was rough but she pulled it off. I heard this on the radio, specifically <a href="http://www.987newstalk.com/showdj.asp?DJID=40738" target="_blank">the Phil show</a> when it was on it's old WNOX station, it was a write in for local College support. Not only did she get college support for her, but the rest of her family! people should not have to be forced to take care of everyone, that's what a community is for! unfortunately, they do not have transcripts that i can locate otherwise, i would have linked the story itself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I agree that that's a very heartwarming story, and that young girl is brave and in my opinion a hero like any other hero. Now what about people that don't have the privilege of living somewhere where that's possible? There's a reason that stories like that are rare. It's not simply because not everyone has the spirit and will to do it. Plus, isn't it just the right thing to do. Socialised medicine is just the right thing to do. Isn't the health of your nation worth a few of dollars? Or is your money more important to you than the health and welfare of other citizens? How much do you pay each month towards your health insurance?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->a chunk eh? Obviously you have never heard about "these" <a href="http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/EscapeTheRatRace/millionaires-who-gave-it-away.aspx" target="_blank">types</a> of billionaires. Noone is stopping the average american from becoming filthy stinking rich, it's there own decision.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Don't worry, I know all about philanthropists. They really are a rare breed though. Most stinking rich people aren't like that though, it's actually a very small portion. Most believe similar to you, why should their money go to help other people. My view is that they live in a country that allows them the privilege of earning that money so therefore they should be contributing back to that country. Does Bill Gates really need all that money? Does anyone really need a billion dollars? Think of your country as a giant house. It's up to each and every tenant to look after it. The more you have to contribute the more you should contribute. Yes I agree that no-one should stop anyone from becoming stinking rich. But once you become stinking rich you owe a debt to the society that helped you become that stinking rich. Think of what 10mil could do for society. Now would someone with a billion dollars really miss it?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, I am not mistaking liberalism For socialism. I was talking specifically about the life style there allowed to live, and your right it is a privilage, but why should they be rewaded at all, they broke the law and they need to be punished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You are mistaking liberalism for socialism. It's liberalism that believes that those in prisons should live comfortably. I agree with you that they should be punished. The penal system in the UK is a joke. Perfect example is the bloke who was banged up for trolling Facebook sites. He got more time than the average mugger. Which one is really more dangerous to soceity? One of them cause people to get their feelings hurt and one of them caused someone to be psychologically scarred. I know who deserves the tougher punishment.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what kind of compassion is it to let Lockerbie Bomber go free? it's not, it's <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6814939.ece" target="_blank">Oil,money and appeasement</a>. He should have been let out in the yard with all of the other inmates and had the guards go on a twenty minuet break, why should the families have to suffer while he can do whatever he wants.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Welcome to the Chicago School of Economics version of capitalism. Where people are commodities and profits are more valuable. Personally I believe that terrorists should be executed. Don't care what your religion, country of origin or politics is. You commit mass murder you pay with your life.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, it should be reformed! but as a nation we have had a democratic hold for the last 50 years! obviously, there not going to go against there voting block, that is political suicide. I never said that they should renounce there religion, that's what the first amendment is for. and i think you misunderstand what I meant when it comes to them needing to assimilate, I mean that they need to learn the language, join in on a community and be friendly with others, not stay in one neighborhood away from others who just so happen to be different. interact, make friends work for a better tomorrow with everyone, not just people of there particular religion or original nationality. If they have a problem with something, speak up and let there voice be heard! don't sit in the shadows. When it comes to the base ball game analogy, what i meant was that this is america, not mexico, not venezuela, chile etc. this is our national past time, and to fly the flag of another nation is a disgrace to the game, to the nation and to the community.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

In all honesty my opinion is that America is better off with the Democrats than the Republics. Both are pretty much the same as each other, both sides of the same coin if you get me, but the Republican route is a quicker road to Corprotism and Corprotism is something I oppose with every fibre of my being. Yep, I did totally misunderstand what you mean by assimilation. My apologies. What you're speaking of is adapting, and I'm fully behind that. That's one of the things with multi-culturalism that needs to be fine tuned. Although I don't agree with the baseball thing as to me that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't fly the St Georges cross at a Welsh national football game myself and don't really understand why anyone would except to annoy the host country. However, if you're English living in America and England play the US in an international football game I don't see the problem of supporting your country of origin if you live in the US.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, I have boiled them down to what I like to believe a country is. Borders,obviously the area that defines the nation. Language, again this comes back to assimilation, it's been tried before to you go out to the boonies around Quebec, good luck trying to find someone who speaks any english.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Like I say, for me a country is much much more than that. I do mostly support the idea. There's nothing really wrong with a bilingual nation if that's how the nation has evolved. Wales is a pretty good example of it. It was different back in the 80's, the English were hated with a passion. These days it's a very different story though. I can't speak Welsh and I get by perfectly fine. However I live here out of necessity rather than choice, my personal preference would be England. People choosing to live here however should learn the language as my opinion is that you should only move to a country because you admire their lifestyle, culture, politics and the like. When it comes to people choosing to move to England and make their life there then they should learn English and use that in their day to day life outside their home. There should be no communities where people can get by without learning the common language. And I know all about Quebec, I lived in Canada for 12 years. However that's a pretty poor example. There are many countries around the world where there are multiple languages spoken and there's still community cohesion.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->idk about that, reading <a href="http://realbusiness.co.uk/employment/the_immigration_captrap" target="_blank">this</a> is pretty much the same thing that happens over here, the biggest and latest example is that of the gulf oil spill, where they hired <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-20/well-boss-kaluza-was-bp-temporary-replacement-on-rig-refuses-to-testify.html" target="_blank">temporary workers</a>. and reading <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-452815/Will-Britain-day-Muslim.html" target="_blank">this</a> article, it would seem that the masses would want to come in for more jobs, and a better population amongst themselves.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Like I say, I disagree with multi-culturalism when it means that there are segregated communities. It's not something that should happen and it causes divides and festering animosity from the host culture. Both sides are usually at fault when it happens though. Look at it like this. If a Bangladeshi Muslim moved next door to you would you welcome him to the neighbourhood? Would you pop round and say hi, welcome, if you ever need any help or anything don't hesitate to give me a knock? Alot of people wouldn't. So people immigrating tend to gravitate towards areas where they do feel welcome and it then becomes a vicious circle. Both the host and guest culture is at fault in those regards.

Also, I'll let you know, you should stop using the Daily Mail to prove points. In this country it's looked at like a paper version of Fox News. It's a sensationalist paper usually referred to as The Daily Fail by most UK citizens. The only people who really read are the ones who use it to justify their own paranoia, fears and bigotry. They print as many retractions as they do news stories! lol Most Muslims in Britain do actually integrate into the community. The percentage that don't is actually quite small. The ones that don't are usually the fundamentalists, and are usually British born. It's a hard one to explain, but in the majority of cases you wouldn't even know you were speaking to a Muslim unless you actually outright asked them what their religion was. They generally hang out in their own communities because life and society has shepherded them into that.

And I'll fill you in on something that most people don't know. Mass immigration is actually an extreme capitalism tactic. The more people there are the harder it is to find work. The harder it is to find work the more scared people are of losing their job. The more scared people are of losing their job the less likely they are to ask for rights, better working conditions and pay rises. The less a company has to spend the more profits it makes. The more profits it makes the richer their shareholders become. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Consider first at a few chilling statistics. Europeans are failing to reproduce. Just to keep the population steady, you need 2.1 live births per woman.

However, in 2005, the European average was 1.38. In Ireland it was 1.9, France 1.89, Germany 1.35 and Italy 1.23. Britain scored in the middle of this range with 1.6, but that was because - like France - we have a large Muslim population with a high birth rate. Indeed, Muslims are outbreeding non-Muslims throughout Europe.

"Just look at the development within Europe," said a triumphant Norwegian imam a few months ago, "where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children. Our way of thinking will prove more powerful than yours."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah, that's what's generally known as a puff piece. It's propaganda pure and simple and has been debunked on several occasions. I know plenty of Muslims who only have 2 children, just as most of the "indigenous" British families living here actually have 2 or 3 kids. British families having 1.6 kids is a distortion of statistics. Have a read of the link I provided in my previous post.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sry for loosing you, like i said i was in a rush when i replied to this.

what i meant was not only is prostitution open in such a way, it is also employing <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1155502/Suspicious-teacher-exposes-double-life-girl-15-earning-100-000-year-upmarket-prostitute.html" target="_blank">children</a>! yes, there are pedophiles out there everywhere, but it's no where near as bad as it is in the UK, what kind of people allow any member of society be exposed to such a vulgar practice, I admit it can't be controlled 100% but that doesn't mean that the general public needs to give up. keep fighting, push it back!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This statement actually gave me one of the best laughs I've had in a very long time! Again, you've quoted the Daily Mail which really isn't a good start. Prostitution is no more prevalent here than it is in America. It's slightly less of a taboo here because British society isn't quite as puritan as it is in America, but it's still illegal here. If you think that story is a common practice here then you need to switch off Fox News and stop reading Daily Mail articles. Yes we have kiddy fiddlers here, but it's not acceptable. And if you think there's no child prostitution in America then you don't know your country very well!

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yes, people get drunk, people party, and people get a little to crazy, but it is nowhere ABSOLUTELY nowhere as bad as this, I have lived in a fairly large portion of the south eastern part of the united states, and I have never ever seen anything like that at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Again, this problem is nowhere near as bad as you think it is or have been led to believe. I used to go out pubbing and clubbing every night for near enough 15 years and it was actually rare to see this kind of thing. Most British women, while a little more liberated when it comes to sex, aren't just tarts. What you're referring to here is a sub-culture. Chavs (as they're more commonly referred to as) are becoming an epidemic, it's still a small proportion of our population. It's just that they're also the loudest, the dumbest and the easiest to pick on. Plus their stupidity makes for good humour. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Believe it or not, not all Americans run around with hoods shooting up properties and assaulting Great Musicians, that's mostly left wing violence on the west cost where kids have no structure, they get away with anything they want and have Not been told to cut the act, straighten up and act like a man! I thought that guns where banned in England?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Erm, left wing violence? The attack in that story had nothing to do with the left wing. Left wing violence is different, and is usually directed at very different people. In fact, the chances of the left wing in this country attacking someone like that is virtually nil. The right wing would, but not the left wing. This attack is just wannabe "gangstas" who've listened to too much 50 Cent and think it's cool to be a bellend thug. I agree that kids shouldn't be allowed to run riot and should be told to cut the shit. I've nearly lost jobs for smacking kids round the back of the head and telling them off when their parents have been to dumb to do it.

Yep, guns are banned in the UK. Recently though there's been a huge boom in their use. I blame the importation of American hip-hop "gangsta" culture. The "gangsta" hip-hop culture has legitimised criminal and gang behaviour. It's made it acceptable, because it can lead to a career in music. When I was a kid the only people that carried guns where the very serious criminals who rarely used them. Since the explosion of the drug market in the late nineties it's become more and more common, and in the last 5 or so years has become a plague. As I say, American culture has infected ours in some very negative ways. I know not everyone runs around dressed in gang colours shooting each other, but if you don't think it's an epidemic in the US then you really need to start learning more. Again, I blame the "gangsta" rap culture for legitimising it.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the only example i can think of on the west cost that is similar to that of the musician, is <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/US/bronx-gang-members-beat-tortured-gay-recruit/story?id=11844460" target="_blank">this</a> case. I bet, if those punks had a real father figure, and some religion in there lives none of this disgusting event would have ever happened. but that's the left in this country, anti-religion, pro-sexual/drug use.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

While I agree with the father figure part, I don't agree with the religion part. Nobody needs religion. Society as a whole would be much better off without religion, it actually retards its evolution. What's needed is a more philosophical and social based education, rather than an education that prepares you as a commodity for corporations and businesses.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that was more a sting at the way the government is handling things, even though they say that Dr. Savage was provoking inter community violence, when in reality he was actually reacting to the glasgow bombing saying that if worse comes to worse, and they had a nuke, which would you prefer, for the terrorist to die, alongside those in the surrounding area, or for us to die? he ask's the tough questions that need to be asked. I really don't see anyone else talking about what could happen. I have a copy of his freedom of speech dvd, I am going to try to upload it by next response. not just for you to see, but anyone else who is interested, just to show he's not some nut like the illeberal liberals in the media try to pro tray him as. in the mean time, here is his reaction to being banned, take it for what you will.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'd definitely be interested in seeing the DVD. Can't promise that I won't come back after watching it and rip it to bits, but I'll definitely watch it. I'm always interested in that kind of thing. To be honest I disagree with his banned. Just as I disagree with those who try to have Nick Griffin banned from public speaking. I may disagree with what they're saying with every ounce of decency I have in me but it's up to those who oppose him to protest and educate. There were a couple months where I agreed with the banning of Geert Wilders from the country, but not because of his views. The EDL used his words and his film Fitna to justify their hatred of anyone non-White. His words could have sparked riots all across the country. Since that time he has denounced the EDL and everything they stand for. He also made a public statement saying he didn't want their support. Since then I couldn't give a toss about him coming here and speaking. Again, it's up to those who oppose him to protest and educate.

I kind of get the feeling that you believe I'm in the extreme left wing camp. I'm not. I don't follow a particular dogma, I've studied alot of political and economic structures ranging from Stalinism to Islam. I don't pick a political or economic sphere. I believe in a mix of politics and economics. All that matters to me is whats best for the people of my country, the communities in my country and my country. I believe in a certain amount of liberalism, communism, socialism, capitalism and even certain aspects of fascism.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dave is fine with me sry bout that xD, that's actually my fathers name, but he likes to be called david so it would just be easier. idk <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No need to apologise! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> The only reason my family calls me David is because my Dads name is Dave as well. lol David just doesn't sit right with me outside of the family cos it sounds a little too posh!

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like to think of it as Glorbalism more than that :S and i guess we just interpreted it differently, i saw it more as fighting for there freedom to practice there religion, and to survive of there own free will, not white nationalist politics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Globalism is Corporatism under a different banner. It sounds more palatable and less like we're heading towards the kind of future portrayed in 1984 and Blade Runner. You're right, they are fighting for their freedom to practice religion. But they were in that position because of the deranged belief of a nation that their bloodline was the most superior on the planet and that certain other ethnic origins and religious practitioners were lower than human. This too is what the EDL believe. If you look deeper into them you'll see that the EDL are a modern version of the Nazi's. They believe that Muslims should be forced into ghettos, some of them even going as far as saying they should be put into concentration camps and gassed. Hell, I've even seen several say that Milosevic had "the right idea". They believe in ethnically cleansing the UK of all Muslims. Which really boils down to wanting to rid Britain of anyone who isn't White as for them ethnicity=religion. I've seen plenty of them call White Muslims "race traitors". Hence why the film is a perfect example of why organisations like the EDL should be chased out of any town they try to preach their hate in. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->sry it took me so long to reply, it's been busy the last few days what with Halloween and all, I hope i can reply a little bit quicker next time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Don't worry, sometimes I'm away for days at a time. I know how life can be. Hell, it's just taken me all day to reply to this simply cos so many people have been calling at the house! lol

 

[TLSS_N]

<!--quoteo(post=3240700:date=Nov 2 2010, 03:02 PM:name=TrolleyDave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TrolleyDave @ Nov 2 2010, 03:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3240700"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I actually agree with that statement, but the problem is how many people are thinking for themselves and how many are thinking along the longs of propaganda pushed by those with their own agenda. There's a whole heap of social engineering going on in society today that most soak up without realising. A perfect example is the current catchphrase "Not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims". You'd be surprised how often that phrase is bandied about and people actually believe it, when in actual fact acts of terrorism committed by Muslims is relatively low comparatively.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes, there is propaganda, but it's not a one way street. Take those <a href="http://www.debka.com/article/9105/" target="_blank">standing trial</a> in iran, there is no proof that they did such a thing. It's a show trial for the persian pimp Ahmadinejad. Basically, it's not a religious faction, it's a political movement, al-Qaida and the taliban not only attack those of western descent, but there fellow practitioners of Islam. I realize that almost all those who practice there faith are not radicals, but there is always the chance that a small amount will try to gain influence.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's a reason that stories like that are rare. It's not simply because not everyone has the spirit and will to do it. Plus, isn't it just the right thing to do. Socialised medicine is just the right thing to do. Isn't the health of your nation worth a few of dollars? Or is your money more important to you than the health and welfare of other citizens? How much do you pay each month towards your health insurance?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hospitals in the united states will help, if not outright pay for your bill if you can not pay the bill for your visit, take <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act" target="_blank">EMTALA</a> for example. Most of the time, the hospital can keep out of the red. But, on occasion one might fail. especially on the <a href="http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/050616_nd.htm" target="_blank">Mexican border</a>.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't worry, I know all about philanthropists. They really are a rare breed though. Most stinking rich people aren't like that though, it's actually a very small portion. Most believe similar to you, why should their money go to help other people. My view is that they live in a country that allows them the privilege of earning that money so therefore they should be contributing back to that country. Does Bill Gates really need all that money? Does anyone really need a billion dollars? Think of your country as a giant house. It's up to each and every tenant to look after it. The more you have to contribute the more you should contribute. Yes I agree that no-one should stop anyone from becoming stinking rich. But once you become stinking rich you owe a debt to the society that helped you become that stinking rich. Think of what 10mil could do for society. Now would someone with a billion dollars really miss it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

so, here are <a href="http://givingpledge.org/#enter" target="_blank">some more</a> philanthropists around 40, going to give away a majority if not all of there fortunes. is that not enough? <a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2010/0804/Billionaires-pledge-125-billion-to-Bill-Gates-charity-drive" target="_blank">allot</a> of money is given away to charity every year.

here is a little excerpt.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->According to the Merrill-Capgemini 2010 World Wealth Report, North America's wealthiest donate about $200 billion annually. <u><b>That figure comes from charitable contributions from people making $1 million or more.</b></u><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

those who still do not make that much still donate as much as possible.




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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are mistaking liberalism for socialism. It's liberalism that believes that those in prisons should live comfortably. I agree with you that they should be punished. The penal system in the UK is a joke. Perfect example is the bloke who was banged up for trolling Facebook sites. He got more time than the average mugger. Which one is really more dangerous to soceity? One of them cause people to get their feelings hurt and one of them caused someone to be psychologically scarred. I know who deserves the tougher punishment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

your right, that is outrageous. But is it not socialist to <u>force</u> others to <u>help</u> others? it should be a personal decision, not the governments decision. The government has no right to force you to do something, even if it is for a good cause. remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Welcome to the Chicago School of Economics version of capitalism. Where people are commodities and profits are more valuable. Personally I believe that terrorists should be executed. Don't care what your religion, country of origin or politics is. You commit mass murder you pay with your life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yes, he should be executed. I agree with you there. anyone who commits murder should be executed.


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In all honesty my opinion is that America is better off with the Democrats than the Republics. Both are pretty much the same as each other, both sides of the same coin if you get me, but the Republican route is a quicker road to Corprotism and Corprotism is something I oppose with every fibre of my being. Yep, I did totally misunderstand what you mean by assimilation. My apologies. What you're speaking of is adapting, and I'm fully behind that. That's one of the things with multi-culturalism that needs to be fine tuned. Although I don't agree with the baseball thing as to me that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't fly the St Georges cross at a Welsh national football game myself and don't really understand why anyone would except to annoy the host country.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

well, I guess you wouldn't like <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/03/republicans-capture-house-historic-wave-make-gains-senate/" target="_blank">this</a> story then <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> I agree, they are basically the same thing. But this is different, last night's election wasn't a vote for the GOP, it was a vote for the TEA party. Yes, it will push twords Globalization, but that will only happen when left wingers such as <a href="http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/10/10/facebook_founders_are_backers_of_legal_weed_in_california" target="_blank">these</a>, and morons such as george Soros.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However, if you're English living in America and England play the US in an international football game I don't see the problem of supporting your country of origin if you live in the US.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not like that, not at all.

look at it this way, you have someone from France, and you have someone from Deutschland. the German is a legal citizen in Deutschland, but the frenchmen illegally crossed the border and set up a new life, bought a new home and is not serious about assimilating. now imagine that there are 100's of thousands of illegal frenchmen who commit no crimes at all, to extremely graphic crimes. the world cup is coming up, and to make it even better, it's being held in your home town. Imagine the surprise that not only is it being held in your home town, which you are so proud of. that your neighbors and countrymen show up to the stadium, and your all excited.. you look up, and there is a 15' X 25' french flag flowing in the breeze. you go on up to the ticket booth and ask why that flag is flown above your flag, "remember, there's 100's of thousands of illegal frenchmen living in the country." the person tell's you that the owner of the station is an illegal french national and wishes to show support for his home country instead of Deutschland.

wouldn't that make your day sour, wouldn't that ruin the whole trip. to piss you off and prevent you from having a good time?


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like I say, for me a country is much much more than that. I do mostly support the idea. There's nothing really wrong with a bilingual nation if that's how the nation has evolved. Wales is a pretty good example of it. It was different back in the 80's, the English were hated with a passion. These days it's a very different story though. I can't speak Welsh and I get by perfectly fine. However I live here out of necessity rather than choice, my personal preference would be England. People choosing to live here however should learn the language as my opinion is that you should only move to a country because you admire their lifestyle, culture, politics and the like. When it comes to people choosing to move to England and make their life there then they should learn English and use that in their day to day life outside their home. There should be no communities where people can get by without learning the common language. And I know all about Quebec, I lived in Canada for 12 years. However that's a pretty poor example. There are many countries around the world where there are multiple languages spoken and there's still community cohesion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

One language allows us to work together, to pull in the same direction, and to communicate effectively with one another. Progress stops when people can't communicate with each other. Ever hear of the biblical account of the Tower of Babel? Go read it sometime (Gen. 11:1-9) and you'll see that anyone who insists several languages are better than one is wrong. In fact, every current study has shown that children who are immersed into the national language when they immigrate do better in school.





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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like I say, I disagree with multi-culturalism when it means that there are segregated communities. It's not something that should happen and it causes divides and festering animosity from the host culture. Both sides are usually at fault when it happens though. Look at it like this. If a Bangladeshi Muslim moved next door to you would you welcome him to the neighbourhood? Would you pop round and say hi, welcome, if you ever need any help or anything don't hesitate to give me a knock? Alot of people wouldn't. So people immigrating tend to gravitate towards areas where they do feel welcome and it then becomes a vicious circle. Both the host and guest culture is at fault in those regards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I have no problem with Legal Immigrants, I would do all that i could to help them if it is needed, but Illegal immigrants I do have a problem with, simply follow the laws like everyone else and LEGALLY IMMIGRATE. there is a reason we get so pissed off, it's not simply because we do not like you, that's not it at all. take <a href="http://bedbugregistry.com/" target="_blank">bedbugs</a> for example, from <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Bedbug" target="_blank">wikipedia</a>.


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the arrival of potent pesticides, famously DDT in the 1940s, bedbugs almost disappeared in western countries. However, <u>in recent years bedbug infestations have resurged the cause of which not clear, but complacency, increased resistance, and increased international travel being seen as contributing factors</u>. The current wave of bed bug infestations across America has spawned an industry for bed bug prevention, eradication and the reporting of infestations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, I'll let you know, you should stop using the Daily Mail to prove points. In this country it's looked at like a paper version of Fox News. It's a sensationalist paper usually referred to as The Daily Fail by most UK citizens. The only people who really read are the ones who use it to justify their own paranoia, fears and bigotry. They print as many retractions as they do news stories! lol Most Muslims in Britain do actually integrate into the community. The percentage that don't is actually quite small. The ones that don't are usually the fundamentalists, and are usually British born. It's a hard one to explain, but in the majority of cases you wouldn't even know you were speaking to a Muslim unless you actually outright asked them what their religion was. They generally hang out in their own communities because life and society has shepherded them into that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

that's funny, because the daily mail is the second largest in circulation, right behind the sun, a left leaning paper. It sounds like there might be some partisan dictations there, so I am not going into that, I will use the sources as I see fit, and I try to use them from as many different organizations as possible, to try not to outright push one group for sources.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And I'll fill you in on something that most people don't know. Mass immigration is actually an extreme capitalism tactic. The more people there are the harder it is to find work. The harder it is to find work the more scared people are of losing their job. The more scared people are of losing their job the less likely they are to ask for rights, better working conditions and pay rises. The less a company has to spend the more profits it makes. The more profits it makes the richer their shareholders become. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

o.0 and the horse you road in on.... wait, what? that's pure opinion, not to mention pretty much bullshit. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's the economy stupid!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> of course people are going to get fired, that's the way the system works, this shit would not have happened if there wasn't so many illegal immigrants!

break law/jump border-->get together with a group of twenty families and live in a one family home/with Illegal mortgage-->Ice Bust's them, and there all deported-->Mortgage fail's. Multiply that by about 100,000 and add in credit card debt's that do not get payed back, alongside the <u><b>FEDERAL GOVERNMENT</b></u> intervening on behalf of the illegal aliens "for the votes." to force banks to give risky loans they know will not get payed back!




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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, that's what's generally known as a puff piece. It's propaganda pure and simple and has been debunked on several occasions. I know plenty of Muslims who only have 2 children, just as most of the "indigenous" British families living here actually have 2 or 3 kids. British families having 1.6 kids is a distortion of statistics. Have a read of the link I provided in my previous post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You believe what you want, me? I am going with Angela Merkel on this one.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Germany is a society of eighty million people, with more than seven million foreignborn. No other nation in Europe has as many foreigners.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->About 75 percent of the Turks in the world who live outside Turkey are in Germany.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

idk about you, but i think Deutschland had enough of Gerhard Schroeder's lies and voted her in for some real change.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This statement actually gave me one of the best laughs I've had in a very long time! Again, you've quoted the Daily Mail which really isn't a good start. Prostitution is no more prevalent here than it is in America. It's slightly less of a taboo here because British society isn't quite as puritan as it is in America, but it's still illegal here. If you think that story is a common practice here then you need to switch off Fox News and stop reading Daily Mail articles. Yes we have kiddy fiddlers here, but it's not acceptable. And if you think there's no child prostitution in America then you don't know your country very well!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Like I heard that on FIX news network, FOX is the cnn of the past, and will be the msnbc of the future. There is no true news network, just left wingers working behind the scenes. I am glad you got a laugh out of that, I am sure that you will get a good laugh out of <a href="http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/uk.htm" target="_blank">this</a>. what about this, is this normal? sure it seems out of the norm, but hey the mother say it's <i>normal</i> to have children that age. but then again, let's open the floodgates to all immigrant's, sex at 9 sure sounds like a good time to all the freaks out there, now doesn't it?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Again, this problem is nowhere near as bad as you think it is or have been led to believe. I used to go out pubbing and clubbing every night for near enough 15 years and it was actually rare to see this kind of thing. Most British women, while a little more liberated when it comes to sex, aren't just tarts. What you're referring to here is a sub-culture. Chavs (as they're more commonly referred to as) are becoming an epidemic, it's still a small proportion of our population. It's just that they're also the loudest, the dumbest and the easiest to pick on. Plus their stupidity makes for good humour. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If they where raised properly, and where actually told NO! once or twice, they probably wouldn't act that way, now would they? instead they have everything handed to them like in greece... I think we know how that's turning out.


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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Erm, left wing violence? The attack in that story had nothing to do with the left wing. Left wing violence is different, and is usually directed at very different people. In fact, the chances of the left wing in this country attacking someone like that is virtually nil. The right wing would, but not the left wing. This attack is just wannabe "gangstas" who've listened to too much 50 Cent and think it's cool to be a bellend thug. I agree that kids shouldn't be allowed to run riot and should be told to cut the shit. I've nearly lost jobs for smacking kids round the back of the head and telling them off when their parents have been to dumb to do it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I wasn't talking about that story in particular anymore, I was talking about the scum over here.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yep, guns are banned in the UK. Recently though there's been a huge boom in their use. I blame the importation of American hip-hop "gangsta" culture. The "gangsta" hip-hop culture has legitimised criminal and gang behaviour. It's made it acceptable, because it can lead to a career in music. When I was a kid the only people that carried guns where the very serious criminals who rarely used them. Since the explosion of the drug market in the late nineties it's become more and more common, and in the last 5 or so years has become a plague. As I say, American culture has infected ours in some very negative ways. I know not everyone runs around dressed in gang colours shooting each other, but if you don't think it's an epidemic in the US then you really need to start learning more. Again, I blame the "gangsta" rap culture for legitimising it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I agree, Gangsterism is pushed by the rap culture a democratic strong hold, who get a pass whenever they say anything offensive, unlike the other side of the spectrum where if someone says anything conservative, and it's offensive to some, there dogged for months, if not years.

take Ludacris's rap song "Politics"

here is an excerpt


<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't stop what's bout to happen, we bout to make history
<b>The first black president is destined and it's meant to be
The threats ain't fazing us, the nooses or the jokes
So get off your ass, black people, it's time to get out and vote!</b>
<u>Paint the White House black and I'm sure that's got 'em terrified
McCain don't belong in any chair unless he's paralyzed
Yeah I said it cause Bush is mentally handicapped</u>
Ball up all of his speeches and I throw 'em like candy wrap
'cause what you talking I hear nothing even relevant
and you the worst of all 43 presidents<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

is the bold not offensive to some, and the underlined.. if anyone with conservative leanings would say something like that, they would be so banished, they would have to change there name and start a new life in another country.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While I agree with the father figure part, I don't agree with the religion part. Nobody needs religion. Society as a whole would be much better off without religion, it actually retards its evolution. What's needed is a more philosophical and social based education, rather than an education that prepares you as a commodity for corporations and businesses.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's fine, you do not have to agree on religion at all, I am just simply stating my opinion. Religion is more of a guide for the human race, If you boil all of them down, it comes to one single thing, treat other's as you would like to be treated, that's all the education you need!

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd definitely be interested in seeing the DVD. Can't promise that I won't come back after watching it and rip it to bits, but I'll definitely watch it. I'm always interested in that kind of thing. To be honest I disagree with his banned. Just as I disagree with those who try to have Nick Griffin banned from public speaking. I may disagree with what they're saying with every ounce of decency I have in me but it's up to those who oppose him to protest and educate. There were a couple months where I agreed with the banning of Geert Wilders from the country, but not because of his views. The EDL used his words and his film Fitna to justify their hatred of anyone non-White. His words could have sparked riots all across the country. Since that time he has denounced the EDL and everything they stand for. He also made a public statement saying he didn't want their support. Since then I couldn't give a toss about him coming here and speaking. Again, it's up to those who oppose him to protest and educate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Anyone who is in denial of the Holocaust is obviously a little out there, Nick Griffin has the right to say what he want's, it doesn't mean he's right or smart. or wrong or stupid, it's him just being him. I do have a personal question for you though Dave, Have you actually ever been to an EDL rally? I am not talking to support them, I am just saying been there, I have been the the Glenn Beck tea party rally, and I have to say, the media is so wrong on it, it's not even funny! You have to experience some of these things for yourself, you cant rely on others to tell the truth 100% of the time.




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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I kind of get the feeling that you believe I'm in the extreme left wing camp. I'm not. I don't follow a particular dogma, I've studied alot of political and economic structures ranging from Stalinism to Islam. I don't pick a political or economic sphere. I believe in a mix of politics and economics. All that matters to me is whats best for the people of my country, the communities in my country and my country. I believe in a certain amount of liberalism, communism, socialism, capitalism and even certain aspects of fascism.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's all well and good, like I said, I am not trying to push you in any one direction, it's your opinion, and I am not going to try to force the issue.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No need to apologise! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> The only reason my family calls me David is because my Dads name is Dave as well. lol David just doesn't sit right with me outside of the family cos it sounds a little too posh!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I hate being called andy to be honest, I remember back in kindergarten that's all they would call me and i was sent to the principles office, GOOD TIMES!! lol

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Globalism is Corporatism under a different banner. It sounds more palatable and less like we're heading towards the kind of future portrayed in 1984 and Blade Runner. You're right, they are fighting for their freedom to practice religion. But they were in that position because of the deranged belief of a nation that their bloodline was the most superior on the planet and that certain other ethnic origins and religious practitioners were lower than human. This too is what the EDL believe. If you look deeper into them you'll see that the EDL are a modern version of the Nazi's. They believe that Muslims should be forced into ghettos, some of them even going as far as saying they should be put into concentration camps and gassed. Hell, I've even seen several say that Milosevic had "the right idea". They believe in ethnically cleansing the UK of all Muslims. Which really boils down to wanting to rid Britain of anyone who isn't White as for them ethnicity=religion. I've seen plenty of them call White Muslims "race traitors". Hence why the film is a perfect example of why organisations like the EDL should be chased out of any town they try to preach their hate in. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I am going to take your word for that, as I don't actually live there, never have and probably never will. If that's true, it's a dispicable act, and they should be jailed or worse.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't worry, sometimes I'm away for days at a time. I know how life can be. Hell, it's just taken me all day to reply to this simply cos so many people have been calling at the house! lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


well, got stuck watching the elections and then stayed up till 4:30 for results. then found our dog on the side of the highway dead today so It has been pretty rough, it's 12:30 AM here, so I am going to bed, i'll probably respond within the next two days, <a href="http://www.megavideo.com/?d=AZBXB46V" target="_blank">here</a> is the freedom of speech rip, enjoy.

btw, prop 19 failed *celebrates* <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

it took 6 tabs open in ff to post this reply, stupid quote limit LOL.


...seriously.... your reading all this ?_?

 

[TrolleyDave]

<!--quoteo(post=3243638:date=Nov 4 2010, 06:04 AM:name=The Living Shadow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Living Shadow @ Nov 4 2010, 06:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3243638"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, there is propaganda, but it's not a one way street. Take those <a href="http://www.debka.com/article/9105/" target="_blank">standing trial</a> in iran, there is no proof that they did such a thing. It's a show trial for the persian pimp Ahmadinejad. Basically, it's not a religious faction, it's a political movement, al-Qaida and the taliban not only attack those of western descent, but there fellow practitioners of Islam. I realize that almost all those who practice there faith are not radicals, but there is always the chance that a small amount will try to gain influence.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Don't worry, I know all about the propaganda on all sides. I've been studying it for over a decade now. The propaganda that comes out of Iran is terrible I agree. I know Islam is a political movement and not just a religion. The Qu'ran lays down an entire political and social structure as well as faith. Yesh, the Taliban and the cells known collectively as Al-Qaeda attack their own people but anyone who's ever read the Qu'ran or the Hadiths knows that this really does go against Islamic teachings. A Muslm may never in any circumstances harm another Muslim. The people that make up the Taliban, Al-Qaeuda and Mullahs of Iran are greedy power hungry corrupt politicians no different to any other. The only real difference is they have a very cult of personality like religion aiding them. I think you've kind of missed the point of the original statement though. The statement, made by somebody on news TV in the US, says that ALL terrorists are Muslim. And like I said, in the global scheme of things terrorists that are Muslim are relatively low and actual Islamic terrorism is even lower.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hospitals in the united states will help, if not outright pay for your bill if you can not pay the bill for your visit, take <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act" target="_blank">EMTALA</a> for example. Most of the time, the hospital can keep out of the red. But, on occasion one might fail. especially on the <a href="http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/050616_nd.htm" target="_blank">Mexican border</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ok that's fair enough. But would a poor person be able to go to one a hospital and get all the treatment he needs for say cancer? The problem with privatised health care like the one in America is that they put profits before people. They have the right to refuse treatment to people who've been paying their insurance.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so, here are <a href="http://givingpledge.org/#enter" target="_blank">some more</a> philanthropists around 40, going to give away a majority if not all of there fortunes. is that not enough? <a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2010/0804/Billionaires-pledge-125-billion-to-Bill-Gates-charity-drive" target="_blank">allot</a> of money is given away to charity every year.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's fair enough, but you need to separate the individual from the corporation. What I'm saying is that corporations who make billions a year in profit should be made to contribute back to the society they earn their billions from. They should be hit with large fines for every infraction of the law they commit. Look at the BP oil spill. If instead of removing the regulations that allowed this to happen stricter regulations had been put in place with the threat of a massive fine (and therefore a huge dent in profits) do you think it would have happened? If you charged them a fee every year to ensure that there would be enough inspectors and government regulators to keep a careful watch on companies like them do you think this would have happened? Also charge them a small amount (compared to their income) to create an emergency fund to repair any damage to the environment that may happen if something genuinely goes wrong, how quick do you think the environment would have got cleaned up then. Instead time was spent bickering over who would get this contract or that contract. Big business and profits once again came before any responsibility to the country, no corporation should ever have more power than the country hosting them.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->your right, that is outrageous. But is it not socialist to <u>force</u> others to <u>help</u> others? it should be a personal decision, not the governments decision. The government has no right to force you to do something, even if it is for a good cause. remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That depends on the interpretation and moderation of socialism. Like any other political movement there are those that seek to control and those that seek to unite. The trick is to sift through it all, find those looking to unite rather than control and learn from what they have to teach. At it's core a true Socialist government is actually more democratic than what we call Democracy as before that government can change any important policies they have to get the vote of the people. Look at France and Sweden at the moment for example. Both are examples of countries built on socialism. Would you say they are dictatorships, or countries that force their citizens to help each other out?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yes, he should be executed. I agree with you there. anyone who commits murder should be executed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I wouldn't go that far. But certainly anyone who commits multiple or mass murder should be.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->well, I guess you wouldn't like <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/03/republicans-capture-house-historic-wave-make-gains-senate/" target="_blank">this</a> story then <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> I agree, they are basically the same thing. But this is different, last night's election wasn't a vote for the GOP, it was a vote for the TEA party. Yes, it will push twords Globalization, but that will only happen when left wingers such as <a href="http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/10/10/facebook_founders_are_backers_of_legal_weed_in_california" target="_blank">these</a>, and morons such as george Soros.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

In all honesty I could care whether it's the Republicans or Democrats as like I said they're both the same coin. The only real difference is one is more honest it's support of the corporations and it's shafting of the people. Modern American politics reminds of Chicago in the 30's with big business replacing the Italian/Irish mafias. Globalisation is both a left wing and right wing policy, just for different ends. It's only really the extreme and far right that are against globalisation, and that's mostly because they're paranoid, delusional and most of all White nationalists.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->look at it this way, you have someone from France, and you have someone from Deutschland. the German is a legal citizen in Deutschland, but the frenchmen illegally crossed the border and set up a new life, bought a new home and is not serious about assimilating. now imagine that there are 100's of thousands of illegal frenchmen who commit no crimes at all, to extremely graphic crimes. the world cup is coming up, and to make it even better, it's being held in your home town. Imagine the surprise that not only is it being held in your home town, which you are so proud of. that your neighbors and countrymen show up to the stadium, and your all excited.. you look up, and there is a 15' X 25' french flag flowing in the breeze. you go on up to the ticket booth and ask why that flag is flown above your flag, "remember, there's 100's of thousands of illegal frenchmen living in the country." the person tell's you that the owner of the station is an illegal french national and wishes to show support for his home country instead of Deutschland.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

In that hypothetical situation I'd say the Frenchman was bang out of order and should be forced to swap the order of the flags around. But I have nationalistic tendencies over certain things so that plays a big hand in that. I know plenty of people who just wouldn't care.

wouldn't that make your day sour, wouldn't that ruin the whole trip. to piss you off and prevent you from having a good time?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One language allows us to work together, to pull in the same direction, and to communicate effectively with one another. Progress stops when people can't communicate with each other. Ever hear of the biblical account of the Tower of Babel? Go read it sometime (Gen. 11:1-9) and you'll see that anyone who insists several languages are better than one is wrong. In fact, every current study has shown that children who are immersed into the national language when they immigrate do better in school.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I totally agree with that. I'm not against adult learner classes funded by the government to help immigrants learn the national language as quickly as possible, but I do believe in a one or two national language based idea. One or two depending on the culture of the country and how it's evolved obviously. That's one of the things I believe all immigrants should adapt to.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have no problem with Legal Immigrants, I would do all that i could to help them if it is needed, but Illegal immigrants I do have a problem with, simply follow the laws like everyone else and LEGALLY IMMIGRATE. there is a reason we get so pissed off, it's not simply because we do not like you, that's not it at all. take <a href="http://bedbugregistry.com/" target="_blank">bedbugs</a> for example, from <a href="https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Bedbug" target="_blank">wikipedia</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

There's nothing wrong with being against illegal immigration, I am. But I also understand why it happens and know that if the situation was reversed I'd probably try the same thing if I couldn't legally emigrate. If the life you live as an illegal immigrant in a country like the UK is better than your life at home then it must have been pretty bad.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that's funny, because the daily mail is the second largest in circulation, right behind the sun, a left leaning paper. It sounds like there might be some partisan dictations there, so I am not going into that, I will use the sources as I see fit, and I try to use them from as many different organizations as possible, to try not to outright push one group for sources.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Circulation doesn't necessarily mean better news. You're welcome to use the paper all you like, all I'm saying is that it hurts the credibility of what you say. And neither paper is left leaning, nor are they right leaning. They're simply sensationalist papers, they print their news according to how many papers it would sell. If you read on a daily basis you'd see it. It doesn't really come across when using it as a source on the net because you only see the stories you're searching for if you get me.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->o.0 and the horse you road in on.... wait, what? that's pure opinion, not to mention pretty much bullshit. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's the economy stupid!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> of course people are going to get fired, that's the way the system works, this shit would not have happened if there wasn't so many illegal immigrants!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I wasn't talking about illegal immigration, I was talking about legal mass immigration. That's why borders are opened in waves and to giant numbers. It's not just my opinion. Read up on disaster capitalism and economic hitmen.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->break law/jump border-->get together with a group of twenty families and live in a one family home/with Illegal mortgage-->Ice Bust's them, and there all deported-->Mortgage fail's. Multiply that by about 100,000 and add in credit card debt's that do not get payed back, alongside the <u><b>FEDERAL GOVERNMENT</b></u> intervening on behalf of the illegal aliens "for the votes." to force banks to give risky loans they know will not get payed back!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Illegal immigrants can vote in America?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You believe what you want, me? I am going with Angela Merkel on this one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's entirely up to you. I'm telling you from the experience of living in this country that UK women have more than 1.6 children. Hell, these days there's a fair chunk of teenage girls who have that many before they've even hit 18. I know very little about Germany's immigration policy, I'll look into it further.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like I heard that on FIX news network, FOX is the cnn of the past, and will be the msnbc of the future. There is no true news network, just left wingers working behind the scenes. I am glad you got a laugh out of that, I am sure that you will get a good laugh out of <a href="http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/uk.htm" target="_blank">this</a>. what about this, is this normal? sure it seems out of the norm, but hey the mother say it's <i>normal</i> to have children that age. but then again, let's open the floodgates to all immigrant's, sex at 9 sure sounds like a good time to all the freaks out there, now doesn't it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

FOX News are one of the worst news channels on the planet, probably the worst of all Murdoch owned news channels. How could you ever trust the word of news station that went to court to fight for the right to lie? What kind of news channel fights for the right to lie under the guise of freedom of speech? If you think Murdoch is a left winger then you're solely and wholly mistaken. Fox News mainly leans to the right, but it doesn't really care as long as it gets people foaming at the mouth and viewing their channel.

Yes we have child prostitution in this country but it's not the problem you obviously perceive it as. The States suffers a far worse problem with paedophillia than we do.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If they where raised properly, and where actually told NO! once or twice, they probably wouldn't act that way, now would they? instead they have everything handed to them like in greece... I think we know how that's turning out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's exactly how we're turning out. I hate it. There's far too many people out there who believe that any negative emotion will damage a child's emotional growth, but sometimes a kid needs to be told off. I don't agree with beating them obviously, but a short sharp shock in the form of a slap is fine in my opinion.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wasn't talking about that story in particular anymore, I was talking about the scum over here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ah right, my apologies. I misread what you were trying to say.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree, Gangsterism is pushed by the rap culture a democratic strong hold, who get a pass whenever they say anything offensive, unlike the other side of the spectrum where if someone says anything conservative, and it's offensive to some, there dogged for months, if not years.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Gangsterism and the Gangsta rap culture is pure capitalism. It's making as much money as possible without any responsibility.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->is the bold not offensive to some, and the underlined.. if anyone with conservative leanings would say something like that, they would be so banished, they would have to change there name and start a new life in another country.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I agree there's an imbalance, and in all honesty I don't agree with it. I understand the reasoning and logic behind why it's like that, I just don't agree with it. As long as the person singing the lyrics isn't promoting the ideals of someone like David Duke then there should be nothing wrong with it.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's fine, you do not have to agree on religion at all, I am just simply stating my opinion. Religion is more of a guide for the human race, If you boil all of them down, it comes to one single thing, treat other's as you would like to be treated, that's all the education you need!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Philosophy is a guide for the human race as well, and much better as the right philosophy doesn't teach you to be good in order to be rewarded in an after-life - it teaches you to be good because that's the best way to advance society.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone who is in denial of the Holocaust is obviously a little out there, Nick Griffin has the right to say what he want's, it doesn't mean he's right or smart. or wrong or stupid, it's him just being him. I do have a personal question for you though Dave, Have you actually ever been to an EDL rally? I am not talking to support them, I am just saying been there, I have been the the Glenn Beck tea party rally, and I have to say, the media is so wrong on it, it's not even funny! You have to experience some of these things for yourself, you cant rely on others to tell the truth 100% of the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't agree that he should have the right to promote lies as the truth in order to push forward his agenda. I'll fight for hist rights to push his politics, but I won't fight for anyones right to push forward negative stereotypes based on false information. No I've never been to an EDL rally. I'm far too old and unfit these days to be caught up among 500 drunken blokes looking for a scrap. Have you ever seen an EDL demo? They're nothing like the Tea Party rallies, I know they get compared but they're not really that much alike. Plus I speak to individual members of the EDL rather than looking at the organisation and I look at how it's leaders behave, the propaganda they use and the kind of cult of personality setup they've got going on. I get my view of the ED from all over.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hate being called andy to be honest, I remember back in kindergarten that's all they would call me and i was sent to the principles office, GOOD TIMES!! lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

lol I know that feeling very very well!

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am going to take your word for that, as I don't actually live there, never have and probably never will. If that's true, it's a dispicable act, and they should be jailed or worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm not saying that every member of the EDL but alot of this does go on and rarely gets oppose, so long as it's directed against Muslims. I agree it's despicable, that's why I say they should be chased out of town. All of them may not hold that opinion but they certainly don't oppose it as is held true by the fact that these people belong to the organisation if you get me.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't worry, sometimes I'm away for days at a time. I know how life can be. Hell, it's just taken me all day to reply to this simply cos so many people have been calling at the house! lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->well, got stuck watching the elections and then stayed up till 4:30 for results. then found our dog on the side of the highway dead today so It has been pretty rough, it's 12:30 AM here, so I am going to bed, i'll probably respond within the next two days, <a href="http://www.megavideo.com/?d=AZBXB46V" target="_blank">here</a> is the freedom of speech rip, enjoy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Nightmare. Sorry to hear about my dog, my sympathies to you. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/frown.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="frown.gif" /> Take your time responding. I'll try and watch that video later and let you know what I think.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->btw, prop 19 failed *celebrates* <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

*shakes head*

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it took 6 tabs open in ff to post this reply, stupid quote limit LOL.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

heh The bonus of being a mod is I don't suffer from that!

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...seriously.... your reading all this ?_?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Of course I am! I'm actually enjoying the discussion. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />