The benefits of Brexit - the future of the United Kingdom

[Deleted User]

But ignored him about anything else.

You can ignore the facts all you want, but the matter of the fact is that people who had money in banks have been robbed by the very same people they trusted their money with.

The politicians aren't any better either.

I'm Portuguese too, but I just don't see Portugal as a country with a future for me. Those in control of it have failed my beloved country and I'd rather be in U.K. or anywhere else at this point.

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Brexit is now leaving Europe for sure thanks to STUPID Trump's friend in UK does that. I said Uk make a big mistake. Disappointment!

Uh, what? Leaving Europe? No.

Brexit was made that so U.K. would leave the EU. Learn the difference, my dude.

 

[spotanjo3]

You can ignore the facts all you want, but the matter of the fact is that people who had money in banks have been robbed by the very same people they trusted their money with.

The politicians aren't any better either.

I'm Portuguese too, but I just don't see Portugal as a country with a future for me. Those in control of it have failed my beloved country and I'd rather be in U.K. or anywhere else at this point.

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Uh, what? Leaving Europe? No.

Brexit was made that so U.K. would leave the EU. Learn the difference, my dude.

That's your opinion about Portugal but I am Portuguese from San Miguel, Azores. I would glad visit Portugal easy from my island.

Okay, I got what you mean. I cannot care about Brexit. I just want UK to stay in the EU.

 

[Deleted User]

so open borders suit us just fine.

Right, just like allowing anyone in from China without being checked if he/she has the virus.

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I would glad visit Portugal easy from my island.

You seem to despise U.S. so why don't you return back to Açores?

. I just want UK to stay in the EU.

Thank God they've left.

 

[spotanjo3]

You seem to despise U.S. so why don't you return back to Açores?
.

No, I don't hate it. I just don't feel I belong to it. I thank my parents for the experienced I had been living in America for a long time. I thank America for that. Enough is enough for me.

Yes, that's what I am going to do. I came to America with my parents and been here for overt 40 years. Not happy here. America is insane expensive due to higher cost of living, health care sucks, and crime here, oh my gosh, shooting almost everyday on news. Miss my country. Been there every years.

 

[eyeliner]

Right, just like allowing anyone in from China without being checked if he/she has the virus.

You are sorrowly mistaken, amigo. Open EUROPEAN BORDERS.

If my schooling did me any favours, China isn't part of Europe. But hey, I'm from Portugal, am I right? I know jack squat. But you do, so the pesky chinese will cross your borders happily without showing Visas, Passports and having a thermometer pointed to their forehead.

And so you know, they only leave China AFTER CLEARANCE. But again,you know better that the European Chinese, am I right? I mean, you know they are part of Europe so they can enter freely, yes?

Legitimate question, but are you a xenophobe or just sound like one?

Edit:I just read you are portuguese as well. Good riddance. Have a good life away from your "beloved" country.

 

[notimp]

Sorry, forgot the most obvious reply.

So free trade is still in.

Which means, that boats, and trucks and transporters can still illegally carry migrants - without being searcht, right? The same who already went through 4-6 countries illegally before they reach the UK, right?

So what was the Brexit good for again?

But thanks for posting black people jump onto the shore in Spain videos from RT. No really, thanks a bunch.

 

[notimp]

Wait, wait. Let me get this straight

This is how stupid the people on the right are.

- You tell them, why their "migrants be invading the UK" story makes no sense, three times. (Why it never made sense, and why the high onset at the implementation of Schengen (2004) was their own fault. (UK politicians own decision.))
- You show them the Dominic Cummings video (campaign architect of Leave), where he basically tells people, yeah, we used the racist bigots, had nothing for them really made them vote against their interests, couldnt have done it without them.
- You then get 'soft brexit' with free trade and movement of workers still being in place ( https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/29/brexit-britain-hard-line-immigration-openness )

And then the same jolly group of users still posts their "THA MEDIA ISNT TELLING YOU THAT A BOAT ARRIVED IN SPAIN - AND BLACK PEOPLE JUMPED OUT" bullshit - uses that as a premise for "so glad that we left the EU - so we can now attend to our own borders again", which you won't do.

And have the same three people like each others racist postings, just for the fun of it.

Thats how stupid the far right is.

They dont even realize whats happening, after it happened, and you shouted it into their ears three times already.

They are so fact resistant - they cant even deal with whats happening anymore, at the same time, they are still convinced, that they have "won" though. What exactly they dont know themselves, but they have this feeling... And this russian video with black people jumbing from boats in spain, they want to share.

Huh.

But now they can refuse work permits to EU citizens, selectively.

But they still post videos of BLACK PEOPLE JUMPING FROM BOATS, which arent EU citizens. Because -- why? And like each other postings. thinking they'd get fewer international migrants, while in reality they are set up to get more (even more illegal ones), but - they insist - less legal ones from the EU.

Thats worldcup class stupidity.

So the people in here basically dont like polish dudes, but post russian made videos to instill fear of illegal black immigrants, which they just voted to get more of - because they will be liberalizing their economy in the lower wage sectors and EU migrants will not be interested anymore to fill those jobs at the same level. They ignore that their campaign leads basically openly tell them - yeah, we just manipulated you emotionally, you voted against your own interests - and still are hooked on propaganda, to shout against "tha mainstream media" - after they have won the election (thanks to low voter turnout) and social media campaigns.

Wow. Thats an achievement. I mean a real one. Thats max reality distortion.

You practically don't live on this planet anymore.

How is mars?

Still listening to the strict hirarchy of people that tell you what to do? You know, the ones you idolized, but that dont do stuff in your interest? Oh, they have such great suits. And the gift of the gab. You love it. Are they still telling you to post FUD?

Do you have any rational justification for your believes, that now that you can issue work permits out to EU citizens, stuff will get better again in any way? I even take feelings at this point. Just something the would throw any light on your logic structure.

Besides posting the same old, same old 2015 selection of racist memes.

I mean lets savor this for a moment. A fucking russian video of a boat landing on the spanish shore is your logic gate for "this is why we have to leave EU" - but still allow free trade (so migrants can get in illegally on ships, vans and trollies - while we'll even build more jobs for their career level.).

What a beauty.

When do you come to the realization, that all that you are peddling is FUD with - with very simple - but entirely wrong proposed 'solution' proposals, that were only designed so people like you would fall for them? Next christmas?

Would you like a graze period until then? Maybe next christmas you start using your intellect and we can talk?

 

[notimp]

Found it. This is what right wingers believe -

now with Britain out of the EU, Britain can finally stop dangerous criminals (terrorists), gettin in to Britain, with easily fakeable EU ID cards. (Nevermind that you cant work in Britain with just an ID card, or get a flat, (you could get a bank account), so terrorists it is - that you are now safeguarding against.

https://www.ft.com/content/1464c62c-1449-11ea-9ee4-11f260415385
accessible via google news referral from:
https://www.google.com/search?q=conservatives+pledge+tighter+border&source=lnms&tbm=nws

Horray! You went out of the EU to be safer from terrorists. Thats what it was!

According to that article UK border force will get a budget rise by £20 mio. Thats off of a base budget of £2.17 billion. Wow. That will show those illigal migrants and terrorists. That will stop them dead! (Next general election conservatives plan to play the 'security card'. )

 

[JoeBloggs777]

Found it. This is what right wingers believe -

now with Britain out of the EU, Britain can finally stop dangerous criminals (terrorists), gettin in to Britain, with easily fakeable EU ID cards. (Nevermind that you cant work in Britain with just an ID card, or get a flat, (you could get a bank account), so terrorists it is - that you are now safeguarding against.

https://www.ft.com/content/1464c62c-1449-11ea-9ee4-11f260415385
accessible via google news referral from:
https://www.google.com/search?q=conservatives+pledge+tighter+border&source=lnms&tbm=nws

Horray! You went out of the EU to be safer from terrorists. Thats what it was!

I think there are lots of reasons why people voted to leave.. some might be because of


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/726436/Child-benefit-UK-taxpayers-eastern-Europe


or

 

[notimp]

Kings College Fellow in the FT
https://www.ft.com/content/af7ac1d8-441a-11ea-9a2a-98980971c1ff

Opinion Brexit

We still don’t know what Brexit means

As it leaves the EU, the UK’s final destination is still wreathed in uncertainty

ANAND MENON

That’s it, we’re out. But in terms of the UK’s relationship with our former fellow EU members, Brexit means Brexit remains as opaque an explanation as ever. Sajid Javid’s recent interview with the Financial Times was notable for a number of reasons. Not least, the chancellor’s claim that businesses now had certainty and could start preparing for life outside the EU, while refusing to specify which European regulations the government was proposing to ditch. This week, cabinet minister Michael Gove reiterated that while aiming to minimise trade friction, “some regulations” would “differ” and this would introduce “some bureaucratic processes”. Like his colleague, he was unspecific. This matters, because businesses are in desperate need of genuine certainty, which is in short supply, not least because Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s withdrawal deal deprives them of it. Uncertainty was not an inevitable element of the Brexit process. Far from it. By way of proof, compare Mr Johnson’s deal, easily passed after he secured a majority in the December general election, and his predecessor Theresa May’s deal, which failed to get through the House of Commons. The all-UK backstop in the May withdrawal agreement — hated in the Conservative party, but a hard-won concession from EU negotiators — included, crucially, a de facto customs union. This provided a guaranteed minimum relationship that would kick in should no free trade agreement capable of resolving the Irish border issue be agreed. The prime minister has left open the possibility of a no-deal Brexit at the end of this year. It also addressed other political concerns about the future. Areas such as workers’ rights and environmental standards, on which the EU is now concerned to prevent the UK diverging so as to maintain a level playing field, were guaranteed by international treaty. This provided some certainty for companies, which could work on the assumption that the customs and regulatory arrangements foreseen by the backstop could not be undercut. For many on the European side, the all-UK backstop was a hard pill to swallow. Why? Because it offered a large and geographically proximate competitor significant market access without alignment with all EU rules, and secured more or less by domestic, rather than European Court of Justice, oversight and enforcement. That relationship was embedded in the withdrawal agreement and hence a legal obligation rather than simply a set of ambitions in a political declaration. Several member states had to be persuaded — not least by the tireless efforts of the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier’s second-in-command, Sabine Weyand — to accept what they saw as a huge win for London. So Mrs May’s deal implied far less uncertainty than we now face. Not least, it rendered impossible the no-deal Brexit on World Trade Organization terms that many in business now fear for December 2020, at the end of the transition period that started this week. In contrast, Mr Johnson’s withdrawal agreement has nothing to say about the rest of the UK’s future relationship with the EU, though it does lock in such a relationship for Northern Ireland. Consequently, the prime minister has left open the possibility of a no-deal Brexit at the end of the year. Indeed, by insisting that he will not extend transition, he has conceivably made such an outcome far more likely. Meanwhile, the government continues to prevaricate, obfuscate and give every indication that it does not understand the issues at stake. One day, the chancellor tells the FT: “There will not be alignment, we will not be a rule taker.” The next, he tries to placate business — telling an audience in Davos, for example, that “we won’t diverge for the sake of it”. The problem here was not that these two statements are contradictory. Britain could easily refuse to follow EU rules while remaining aligned. That is a question, as the Leave campaign’s slogan dictates, of “taking back control”. The issue with Mr Javid trying to reassure businesses about the UK’s relationship with the EU is that, as Sam Lowe of the Centre for European Reform has pointed out, flexibility does not come for free. By reserving the right to diverge from EU rules — even if we do not exercise it — the UK will face significant costs, loss of market access and burdens for business. This continued uncertainty has several implications. On a macro level, it makes it difficult to envisage the Brexit boom or business investment that Mr Johnson might be hoping for to provide the economic mood music for trade talks over the next 12 months. Second, while businesses can probably assume that, even if a deal with the EU is struck, checks will be imposed on UK-EU trade — indeed Mr Gove last week warned business groups to expect friction — they still do not know for certain what kind of checks these will be, to whom they will apply and whether tariffs might apply. Finally, it’s worth remembering that one of the crucial rationales for this transition period was removing the need for repeated adjustments to shifting terms of trade. Providing a bridge from membership to a new relationship was intended to make life easier for business. Yet we have entered a new era facing the prospect of either another cliff edge or a limited deal by end of this year, followed by continued negotiations in sectors not covered by the initial agreement, leading to the need to adjust all over again if and when a deal is struck. Mr Johnson may have got Brexit done. But even now we don’t know what, precisely, Brexit means.

Great. So hard Brexit after the transition phase is still not off the table.
But people in here celebrated the public event right.

What they were celebrating, they apparently didn't know... Because even at this moment, no one knows.

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I think there are lots of reasons why people voted to leave.. some might be because of


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/726436/Child-benefit-UK-taxpayers-eastern-Europe


or

That is still talked about as a far right talking point within the EU as well.

You cant fix child benefits for EU migrants to the levels of their birth states. European courts of law have ruled several times, that this is illegal.

Even if they have -- omg FIVE children.

The thing is, we - and you as well I'm certain, are importing those workers for medical or retirement care jobs, pulling them away from their children, and then would not even pay them our own levels of child support which - yes, is worth more in their economies.

Those are new levels of low I wont even sink down to, to argue for - why they would be needed.

Those kind of incentives (wages, and benefits higher in richer countries), always were factored in as an incentive for free movement. But when people actually want to cash them in - all of a sudden, they can only work here - but not have the same rights (social payment levels)? Seems odd. No - seems illegal, according to high court legislation.

But yes indeed, this is something that britain for sure will not continue past the end of this year.

So more black and asian care personal then? (Thats the thing. You still have to fill those jobs, and your economy will get more liberal (so lower low level jobs), but you want less people from within the EU. So more migration from countries outisde the EU to fill them, right? With you knew trade deal relationships, this seems like a given. But the racist folks wont like. Because they think they voted for less migration.

First article I linked to worded it this way:

"Maybe they will be happy with more 'selective' migration, but also more of it.

Meaning:

"Lower class of workers more or less confirmed for Britain." But as long as they get lowest social status and less benefits than EU citizens, racist will be fine with that, or what? Thats the logic, right? )

 

[eyeliner]

@notimp Who are you replaying in your first post on this page?
Apologies, but couldn't understand from your text. Regards.

 

[mightymuffy]

notimp, I do wonder, how many people on here do you think read more than about 5% of, well, whatever that is you like to post, when you yourself can't even properly read a reply with only a couple of sentences in?? I'll bold up the part you 'missed' in his post for you...

I think there are lots of reasons why people voted to leave.. some might be because of


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/726436/Child-benefit-UK-taxpayers-eastern-Europe


or

Especially note the section 'some', and 'might be'

 

[notimp]

Dont care. As long a people cant post black people jumping off of boats in spain memes, and get away with that unconfronted, I'm doing my job here.

@eyeliner: To the typical racist poster on gbatemp. A fictive figure I'm projecting attributes onto.

Racists in this thread will only ever post memes, and then scram - never offering more attack surface than necessary - so I have to lay out their logic models for them first, to then be able to confront them on just how insane they are.

Otherwise, stuff like "tha media isn't telling us, that black people jump off of boat in spain, so we had to get through with brexit" can stand here to garner ideological pull from the less informed and children.

Thats why people are posting that stuff in here in the first place.

its not by chance - that before every election wer get the paid facebok advertising messaging in here with the same people liking each others threads no matter how insane the logic behind what they are posting is.
-

What really gets me though is - that even after you lay out why an argument ("We did Brexit to get less (illegal or legal) migration, because the Eu would force us to do too little for our folks") is utterly false - three times in the same thread -

- another right wing sock puppet can still walz in, post a russian agit prop video, say "this be why" - and then scram.

Again - you have children reading this stuff as well. if you want to feed them propaganda unfiltered and without any context - please at least use the same accounts over time.

 

[JoeBloggs777]

Even if they have -- omg FIVE children.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so, any EU nationals working in the UK have the same rights ( in fact I'll go as far as in some cases they have more rights than British citizens in the UK regarding immigration) as British citizens, even thou they may have worked for a short time compared to a British citizen who has worked for years paying taxes.

I think the benefits in Britain are more generous than most other EU countries and some people from other EU countries know the rules and how to take advantage of them. (yes I realise some Brits do to)

The free movement in the EU doesn't work, look at the Baltic states something like 1/3 of the population have left looking for jobs in other EU states and not forgetting the 1M Poles who came to the UK. why don't they do something to bring work to these states and tax incentives for companies to build factories in these countries to stop the mass exodus of people and increasing over crowding in the big cities.

 

[notimp]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so, any EU nationals working in the UK have the same rights ( in fact I'll go as far as in some cases they have more rights than British citizens in the UK regarding immigration) as British citizens, even thou they may have worked for a short time compared to a British citizen who has worked for years paying taxes.

No.

Simple as that.

Job markets arent fair. So they might get a better job than you and me.

But in terms of social benefits, they are only entitled to the same ones your country provides to all your citizens.

"They get more and an iPhone on top of it" is dark PR.

They don't. They maybe get a language course on top of it, and some attention by a NGO, or the church, and maybe a bigger subsidized flat - but thats then only because of the number of their children.

In the five children example above, a EU citizen from a country with lower wages would take up work in lets say the EU and then also apply for child benefits, for their children that werent living with them in the EU (but usually with their grandparents in the countries of origin). Those child benefits would then be worth more, than the living expenses / care expenses would be for those children in their countries, meaning, that there is extra money for those families in the origin country to live on - compaired to their national benefit regimes. But thats also, why those mothers can be motivated to take on these care jobs in our countries in the first place. Its not because they pay so well (from our perspective).

Aging countries in Europe have a problem with financing people at old age. So this 'solution' is a win/win for richer countries (those workers are likely to go back into their countries of origin, once the demographic bump went away - so they are literally workers that you'll only use for part of their lives, and then dont have to care for later on - when they retire in their home countries). So yes, you are overpaying - but then also not paying for retirement at rich countries costs, and you are getting something you wouldnt get otherwise. Women willing to work in the care sector out of their countries, while leaving their children.

 

[carizard]

The only reasons people voted for brexit is as follows, they are retarded, they are racists, they have something to gain look at Nigel and Boris

 

[JoeBloggs777]

No.

Simple as that.

err no to what part ? please explain

 

[carizard]

 

[notimp]

err no to what part ? please explain

I implied social security rights. As in "they get more benefits".

No, in terms of social spending they should get UK rates, not more.

If there are more work security related rights (as in you cant boot them out of their jobs as quickly) that surely wasn't the cause for Brexit and UK citizens being very unhappy, was it?

Those laws might be in place, because resettling with your family adds on additional financial cost, that an entrepreneur you cant just disregard. While society looks away.

But I'm swimming here - maybe you can name the "additional benefits only EU citizens got within the UK"?

The ones that arent just fluff to agitate people that go through the roof, when they hear stuff like that.

Also UK citizens also were EU citizens in their own rights, so they could have moved to Germany and France just as well, enjoying the same rights.

 

[JoeBloggs777]

Also UK citizens also were EU citizens in their own rights, so they could have moved to Germany and France just as well, enjoying the same rights.

you mention that EU nationals shouldn't get more than British citizens in benefits and we've heard EU officials saying they want a equal playing field in the negotiations for a deal. pity this doesn't apply in all cases.

I think you know that you cannot exercise your treaty rights in the country you were born in. so being a British citizen if I married someone from outside the EU I would have to apply for a spouse visa, and earn at least the minimum income threshold, provide evidence the relationship is genuine, pay £1,500 fee, wait weeks and even months for the result

yet a EU citizen can exercise their treaty rights in the UK and if they marry someone from outside the EU they can apply for a EU Settlement scheme family permit. which is FREE, the British Embassy has to treat this application as a priority over other (British ) applications and unlike the British citizen they don't have to meet the minimum income threshold or prove their relationship is genuine and they virtually have a legal right to this visa.

so why don't we have the same rights as EU citizens in this case ? oh sure if I go to another EU country but should people have to?

and yes a British citizen could try and use the Surinder Singh route to bring their partner to the UK. but really again should they have to !