The benefits of Brexit - the future of the United Kingdom

[notimp]

Why we are talking about economy in this thread I guess is, because the EU largely is an economic union. And britain especially didn't want any part in it becoming more of a political union at any cost.

(Also because of an economic argument.)

So in the end more often than you'd think its about the economy. ('stupid' - as the famous saying goes).

Especially if you get to an age where you deciding if you should get children, or get your wife over - which might cost you 6000 GBP in fees.

(I have a pretty good Idea, why that is in place and not footed by the society at large as well btw. but nothing to prove it.. (Its actually there to minimize opportunistic second stage work imigration - so, if you have "too many migrants", which are at a risk of not finding a job over longer periods of time being within your country - their families usually would be at risk also - so you raise fees, so getting your families over becomes more costly (to the point where people on social services might not be able to afford it. In case a company within the UK wanted them for a position, all of that usually goes away entirely.

Thats what you'd call 'managing expectations' - and thats something thats also very en vogue currently. (Because of 'mistakes' in planning.) Politics usually calls it nudging.)))

 

[FGFlann]

I mean, in a sane situation, the ire should turn to the lawmakers who half-assed the implementation and caused the weird situations.

Which in this case would be the Thatcher government if I'm not mistaken...?

Even if that were true, it doesn't address the core of the problem. Since we've had successive governments over the years who hypothetically continue to "half-ass" legislation, the problem has not resolved itself by electing these new governments. Meanwhile the EU continues to mandate new legislation that is ultimately unpopular. You can follow my logic from here. If pruning the tree doesn't work you have to take it out at the root.

 

[Ev1l0rd]

Even if that were true, it doesn't address the core of the problem. Since we've had successive governments over the years who hypothetically continue to "half-ass" legislation, the problem has not resolved itself by electing these new governments. Meanwhile the EU continues to mandate new legislation that is ultimately unpopular. You can follow my logic from here. If pruning the tree doesn't work you have to take it out at the root.

I mean, if you look at what the EU is proposing and how many countries are doing the implementations and are working to have the laws legislated, most of it is really beneign and admittedly very good, and by far the majority of those involved don't seem to complain the same way the British did.

It's the UK that always half-assed the implementation. Oh and I know why that occurs. It has to do with a mentality that you see pop up all the time on British TV: They still think they're an empire who stands on their own and doesn't need to collaborate. The EU is seen as this outside group of "meddlers" who tell them what to do, rather than what it actually is: A -primarily- economic (but also social) union between the countries of Europe, so that in the grand play of things they don't get overlooked or overtaken by one of the other major powers of the world (Russia, China, even the US is one such power).

The truth is... the UK only kept it's major place in the world because it joined the EU. The British empire doesn't exist anymore. Their colonies became independent, the only way they still had relevance and were a relevant world power was because they were a part of the EU.

Consider for a moment where they have to go now that they're out of the EU. Best case scenario, they strike a deal with the EU. The most likely result of that is that they still have to pay money to the EU and adopt most of it's laws, but have lost the ability to discuss and vote on what those laws would entail. That would pretty much mean that they have achieved exactly nothing aside from losing their voting position.

Worst case scenario, they have to make deals with the other world powers, the most likely being the US. And uh... the US is sorta like, infamous for making really shitty deals with it's trading partners (copyright I think was covered earlier, but another example is that the US has really low safety barriers, and most trade deals made with the US have clauses in them that prevent countries from blocking imports from the US because they don't follow the local safety checks). And at the same time, the UK doesn't really have much of a leg to stand on in the debating position. Ultimately, the UK is just an island with bad weather and not much in the way of essential natural resources or particularly strong economic businesses (most of those left due to Brexit).

 

[kumikochan]

I mean, if you look at what the EU is proposing and how many countries are doing the implementations and are working to have the laws legislated, most of it is really beneign and admittedly very good, and by far the majority of those involved don't seem to complain the same way the British did.

It's the UK that always half-assed the implementation. Oh and I know why that occurs. It has to do with a mentality that you see pop up all the time on British TV: They still think they're an empire who stands on their own and doesn't need to collaborate. The EU is seen as this outside group of "meddlers" who tell them what to do, rather than what it actually is: A -primarily- economic (but also social) union between the countries of Europe, so that in the grand play of things they don't get overlooked or overtaken by one of the other major powers of the world (Russia, China, even the US is one such power).

The truth is... the UK only kept it's major place in the world because it joined the EU. The British empire doesn't exist anymore. Their colonies became independent, the only way they still had relevance and were a relevant world power was because they were a part of the EU.

Consider for a moment where they have to go now that they're out of the EU. Best case scenario, they strike a deal with the EU. The most likely result of that is that they still have to pay money to the EU and adopt most of it's laws, but have lost the ability to discuss and vote on what those laws would entail. That would pretty much mean that they have achieved exactly nothing aside from losing their voting position.

Worst case scenario, they have to make deals with the other world powers, the most likely being the US. And uh... the US is sorta like, infamous for making really shitty deals with it's trading partners (copyright I think was covered earlier, but another example is that the US has really low safety barriers, and most trade deals made with the US have clauses in them that prevent countries from blocking imports from the US because they don't follow the local safety checks). And at the same time, the UK doesn't really have much of a leg to stand on in the debating position. Ultimately, the UK is just an island with bad weather and not much in the way of essential natural resources or particularly strong economic businesses (most of those left due to Brexit).

We've already seen examples of that like with Iran and other conflicts Europe decides on a different answer while Trump making threats to the UK that they better make the same decision as the US and they did follow what the US decided regarding those matters. It's only going to get worse for them during the upcoming years that instead of listening to Europe wich wasn't entirely true. They now have to listen even more to what the US does. In theory becoming an even bigger lapdog to another master

 

[FGFlann]

You are right. From the British perspective the EU does meddle. Excessively so. This is not to say that the EU is evil for the way it functions, it is just a product of the way European countries tend to function democratically. I would hope that in kind that Britain not be vilified for its choice to pursue a smaller government.

 

[Deleted User]

Tired of those right wing sickos catering to idiots.

Idiots, far rights, delusionnal, moron...

Yeah, very clever and constructive, I must admit.
I may waste time responding to someone insulting everyone, but I know you are more clever than that.




You certainly know that, along with UK and Germany, France is one of the few NET CONTRIBUTORS to the EU budget. It means that we give 21 000 millions per year and we recover 13 000 millions. The difference goes essentially to eastern europa.
EU costs us, A LOT.

Easy to understand.


Consequences ? We daily close schools, hospitals, post offices, police stations...To fund the Germany's Hinterland. As a side note, we also had to stop all our 4th generation power plants researches because we couldn't afford its budget of...75 millions per year !
Yeah, EU is great.



- Euro has destroyed our competitivity by blocking devaluations which unavoidable when salaries are inflating.
- The 3% deficit law, backed by absolutely no serious arguments, has destroyed our strategies and forced us to sell public goods.
- The ban of investments controls made us lose the vast majority of our industry in favor of foreign countries (starting with the Arcelor Mittal scandal).


The list goes on but I stop there.


There are two kind of people, those who defend EU and those who know how it works.


Have a nice day



Side notes:
Regarding the EU french bureaucrats, the vast majority of commission deciders are German, when taking into account the first hand counseillors, Germany owns 100% of the decision positions.
Just sayin'.

Regarding Total, it is owned by a majority of non french investors and pays almost no taxes in our country. So no, basically it is as french as I am buddist.

 

[kumikochan]

Idiots, far rights, delusionnal, moron...

Yeah, very clever and constructive, I must admit.
I may waste time responding to someone insulting everyone, but I know you are more clever than that.




You certainly know that, along with UK and Germany, France is one of the few NET CONTRIBUTORS to the EU budget. It means that we give 21 000 millions per year and we recover 13 000 millions. The difference goes essentially to eastern europa.
EU costs us, A LOT.

Easy to understand.


Consequences ? We daily close schools, hospitals, post offices, police stations...To fund the Germany's Hinterland. As a side note, we also had to stop all our 4th generation power plants researches because we couldn't afford its budget of...75 millions per year !
Yeah, EU is great.



- Euro has destroyed our competitivity by blocking devaluations which unavoidable when salaries are inflating.
- The 3% deficit law, backed by absolutely no serious arguments, has destroyed our strategies and forced us to sell public goods.
- The ban of investments controls made us lose the vast majority of our industry in favor of foreign countries (starting with the Arcelor Mittal scandal).


The list goes on but I stop there.


There are two kind of people, those who defend EU and those who know how it works.


Have a nice day



Side notes:
Regarding the EU french bureaucrats, the vast majority of commission deciders are German, when taking into account the first hand counseillors, Germany owns 100% of the decision positions.
Just sayin'.

Regarding Total, it is owned by a majority of non french investors and pays almost no taxes in our country. So no, basically it is as french as I am buddist.

You sound very familiar to a certain type of German pre war who also blamed France and others for the progress of Germany while riding on an extremely high horse. It's not even similar but 100 percent identical to that.

 

[notimp]

Idiots, far rights, delusionnal, moron...

Yeah, very clever and constructive, I must admit.
I may waste time responding to someone insulting everyone, but I know you are more clever than that.

I'm signaling. Nothing against you personally - but, the 'resort to the facts' idea, doesnt work in the face of pure, unaltered emotion. You didn't take the high road, when you pulled symbolic messaging only the far right would use ('UK showed us the way, thank you so much - we (france) spend so much money on the EU as well'). None of that was even remotely factual.You never took you time for even 15 minutes to check if your opinion was backed up by facts. You didn't post sources - but to post purely ideologic opinions on a gamer forum -- yes that was not beneath you.

So first I have to confront you emotionally - and then factually, otherwise your statement still has pull. I did adress your statement factually, thats just the part you chose to act like it wasnt there to act emotionally upset in your response.

Your argument is based in familiarity - on concepts that are not similar. Trying to put up messaging extreme right parties all over europe try to establish. And I am exactly doing what I am doing, so you cant claim to take the high road.

Have you ever seen a convention where Wilders, Le Pen and Gauland try to conjure up the idea of a unified right, that might or might not (they wont say) try to destroy the EU? The catering and signaling to racist ideology is everywhere. If you try to disseminate that massage amongst gamers - dont cry, because someone else didn't take the argumentative highroad in confronting you.

Dont even try.

It takes guts to try to spread the 'EU so expensive' argument to try to destroy it as a member of the country thats maybe most interested in binding other big players in a union. Simply because the union 'would be 'so expensive'. (Which from frances perspective - it most certainly is not.) After we have already layed out how manipulative the UKIPs 'bus tour' messaging was in that respect (/on that aspect).

While we are talking risk of recession for our economies, just because the UK is leaving tighter integration.

You are so ideologically driven, that you don't acknowledge any of that - but you still try to recruit naive individuals for your cause - which currently is purely spreading ideology thats coming from people that are shunned by society at large, because they wont reject racist tropes and resentments when trying to garner political majorities.

Show me your friends and I tell you who you are. Also, your friends, for some reason or another have you recruiting others on an ideological basis on the internet. ('First britain, then france then the EU is no more. Horray!') Which is odd.

In other news, 'Trump attacks 'bad', 'sick', 'dirty' and 'corrupt' acusators' (h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kussikUTdSw ) (that was in the last 24 hours) - thats the guy, that was lifted into power by the same polit PR people, hat you then shared with the UK to produce brexit, and then also visited france to share tactics ( https://www.france24.com/en/20190519-bannon-presence-raises-hackles-france-ahead-europe-polls ), shortly before the european elections. So I'm really just learning from a US president.

I'm still trying to be a little bit more civil though.

You told others that the UK would have shown you the way, before any specifics on the separation deal were even agreed on. So you were talking about how people managed to do this on the PR front, and thats how they did it right? So more of that, just not, when its pointed against you?

Thats the way you thanked the UK for showing to your country. We havent seen much else yet.

 

[Doran754]

I've just skimmed through the last 4 pages of this thread I've missed. Ahh how I've missed you gbatemp. "Far right, racist xenophobic retarded moron idiots"

Looks like the UK has left the EU but nothing has changed, same old lefty sound bites because they're incapable of winning elections with IDEAS. I genuinely love opening this thread and seeing nothing but insults flying around. I can't wait until December 31st 2020. If all you loser remainers are this delusional and whinging this much like a bitch already December 31st is going to be incredible. lol I actualy can't wait.

Anyway, I've just got back from Spain, nothing has changed though i think i shouldn't be paying tax on the stuff I've bought over there now? I've also got Portugal booked for June, we go every 4 years. I'm sure all the real racists who hate me because I didn't vote the way they'd like would prefer I didn't continue to visit Europe, unlucky.

 

[Taleweaver]

I've just skimmed through the last 4 pages of this thread I've missed. Ahh how I've missed you gbatemp. "Far right, racist xenophobic retarded moron idiots"

Looks like the UK has left the EU but nothing has changed, same old lefty sound bites because they're incapable of winning elections with IDEAS. I genuinely love opening this thread and seeing nothing but insults flying around. I can't wait until December 31st 2020.

Sorry, but it's a bit of an unfortunate timing for that remark. I know it's not the UK, but Sinn Féin won decisively in Ireland. So your only real neighbor massively shifts towards a united Ireland.

I'm sure all the real racists who hate me because I didn't vote the way they'd like would prefer I didn't continue to visit Europe, unlucky.

Can't speak of others, but to me you're as welcome as you ever were. This discussion is about government and leadership styles, not on its citizens.

Oh, and the demeaning term you're looking for would be "xenophobes". Unless y'all want different skin colors to match your leaving stance, the majority of the country still belongs to the same race as the ones in Europe.

You're welcome.

 

[notimp]

I've just skimmed through the last 4 pages of this thread I've missed. Ahh how I've missed you gbatemp. "Far right, racist xenophobic retarded moron idiots"

Looks like the UK has left the EU but nothing has changed, same old lefty sound bites because they're incapable of winning elections with IDEAS. I genuinely love opening this thread and seeing nothing but insults flying around.

Ah yeah, the old "I win, because my opponent lost his temper approach to public debating". At least carry the context. The remark was made, because some, i., x., r., tried for the third time to pin 'why we brexited' on "tha media didn't report on this viral clip of migrants jumping from a boat is spain", after we explained for the third time, what absolute BS that is in concept and in terms of realpolitcs (german loan word).

If you leave that part out, and fashion it being an attack on 'everything leave', be my guest, but in that case you are trying to win the argument through manipulation.

If you thought leaving the EU was necessary, because of the (now dealt with (ongoing process)) migration crisis, yes - you are an idiot. No way to pussyfoot around that, regardless from what perspective you look at it, that never is or was true. (Bojo on borders in ireland, anyone - I mean you dont have to be a genius here, you just dont have to not selectively ignore stuff, like the UK never having been part of Schengen.)

You've been manipulated using the oldest trick in the book, and now are effectively in denial - if you believe anything along those lines ('people jumping off the boat on spain, made us vote leave - for our country').

I've said in here multiple times, that I dont refute that there are valid political reasons for brexit, for the british. I even linked and liked Michael Portillos (former conservative MP) position on why 'he voted for brexit' (roughly - deeper integration not wanted).

I personally could do without you in this forum, as you never once produced anything of interest or meaning in any discussion I saw you parttake - you always went with known bullet point of you preferred political fraction and tried to ram them through without reflection. And then gloated, to signal victory where possible. Most of them victories in you not having understood the argument the other side was making.

I gain absolutely nothing out of you, core or another guy whos username just slipped participating in here.

Where I draw the line is not calling out racism for politeness sake. So I always will. In which case, be my guest and play the victim narrative all you want - if people dont see through that, I cant convince them rationally anyhow. Thats literally the first thing you learn. (Not falling or populist bait.)

Politics is a strange field, where anyone can claim to participate bringing in his own viewpoints and life experiences, Its even wanted, because the benefit is the outcome on an informed discussion. But if you only spread lies, fear and unfounded uncertainty, and doubt - you are not participating in the democratic process for reasons that are self evident. Main one - you never learned to differentiate between stuff thats out there to rile up people, and stuff thats real (an actual cause for something).

In an age where we can now hold a discussion, if democracy isn't needed anymore, because china learns to substitute the 'societal input' with big data, and is showing it to be successful, your model of elitism works without informed public debate, but with something like a reality show for the masses to substitute. Hint: The extreme right, never saw democracy as something necessary either.

Concept to think about - if all your talking points are fear mongering emotional fluff, trying to warn people, that the world is going to end, because your political fraction (racists) is still 'only around 10%' in polls (or someone is trying to move Trump out of office, different debate, same emotional reaction), chances are that you've been had, or that you are f*cking with peoples emotions.

And even if brexit was a racist victory, and a slip in rational thought (which it doesnt have to be, when you are writing your history books), the people that get off on that having worked - arent even your elites on the far right. Its not like they don't know how their stuff works.
-

One more thing. That 'tha left' (you meaning centrist political positions) had nothing better to 'advertise' at the past elections is entirely true. Concepts (Adam Curtis - The power of nightmares, or Colin Crouch - postdemocracy) why this is happening are well known as well.

 

[FGFlann]

Discussions would probably function much smoother if we didn't ascribe motivations and positions to people we know little to nothing about. Bonus benefit; it helps a thread stay on topic instead of devolving into finger-pointing.

 

[notimp]

But then I said, i. x. r. to make the point that its not ok to promote 'media is still not informing us correctly, because look at this viral video o people jumping off a boat in spain, I've found - and I havent seen it in me daily news -- we had to leave the EU based on that' is not ok, entirely idiotic, beside the point, ignores reality (please look at figures, not at an incidence that gives you the feels, to which you respond with "tha media is lying" - because you heard someone that made an impression on you telling simple, always slightly beside thee truth, truths), ignores standing law, ignores standing political practice, ignores proportionality (of what can cause what), ignores filtering processes in media ('a bicycle fell over in china - please report internationally'), ignores rationality and ignores good taste.

If thats the other side of the discussion, mixed in with - 'that guy called "something" idiotic and xenophobic, therefore we win' - giving the people on the other side more of an easily available platform is the least I'm concerned about.

I will not buckle and say that racism is not a taboo, and can be discussed in here as a valid position.

And yes I will call people racist, xenophobic idiots, to insure - that this line isn't crossed, and that this taboo stands. Nothing good comes from being a racist.

I don't want to allow the people holding those opinions, to spread something that has emotional pull. There is a line.

Thats called a societal taboo, everyone knows, that we dont have to deal with this sh*t. I've looked at the logic, there is none - only plain emotionality. (Ingroup good, outgroup bad.)

Same thing can be said about what caused the brexit vote - and in mass, not unjustly so. But as we are such polite people - we let that slip under the polite blanket of what later will be called history by someone.

But dont tell me, I have to accept the views of some racist folks, and sit idly by - while they spread their utter misinformation.

No - I will not take the 'everyone be more considerate with your words' statement to heart, not in this case. I used those words for very specific reasons.

If you naively post all that racist propaganda in here - and I've hurt your feelings by calling you a xenophobic idiot, too bad I guess. If that makes you follow racists more vigorously, please - use me as your excuse. You couldnt live on having been called an idiot, so you joined the alt right.

Sure. Story of a life,

Getting a slightly better education also would have helped.

We are using plain language in here so you dont have the excuse, that you dont know what all those ivory tower people talked about. But if you are still not taking to it. And still think that structural racism would be a great idea for society going forward - in my opinion you are lost.

At times you have ten people in here recruiting for the alt right. Please take their cards. See whats in store or you there. As someone thats guided mainly by an emotionality thats still one of the few thats shunned within society. I wouldnt want to trade places with you if all you can do every day is to think about how fearful and angry it makes you when you see people jumping off a boat. Illegally.

No consoling words from me to reel you back in, at that moment in your life. Just information, context and commentary, if you want it.

 

[FGFlann]

This is the problem. They posted a boat, therefore racism. Talk about emotional arguments. If it were that easy, anyone concerned about the effects of migration would be undeniably racist. Utter nonsense. It doesn't prove it either way, and jumping to that conclusion creates more undue animosity than it does to provide anything constructive. Do you think actual racists give a shit about being called racist? It accomplishes nothing in any conceivable case. Nobody's asking anyone to accept racism, but at the same time levelling the accusation, whether duly or unduly, is a waste of everyone's time.

 

[notimp]

Again - it wasnt just the idiot racist comment - it always was mixed in with context, actual arguments, sources. Its just people like shamzie, that try to isolate the 'emotional aspect' and surf on it trying to win the argument.

Purposefully, willingly, openly and intentionally letting the argument for why it is utterly unafir to just post emotionally stirring viral videos, as a fear uncertainty and doubt strategy in a web forum targeting kids, all by the wayside -

- and find that the only thing thats wrong in here - is tone.


At the same time, when dealing with mass mobilization, all that counts is emotionality and tone. So if you leave their emotionality unconfronted all the time - congratulations on your intellectual victory, but no one will care.

There has to be a balance. And if they get into talking 'we so poor mistreated for being called xenophobic idiots', hey at least thats not time they can use to spread racist ideology.

Thats how this works at an attention economy level. ('If you only quickly read over things.').

Its not my preffered thing to do, but hey better than letting racism fly. Hrm.

There is no basis for discussion, with people that promote a group ideology that you are born into, and never can attain otherwise. Thats not a society. Thats a problem.

And thats your primer on racism.

Concerning the 'fake media trope'.

Mass media is not 'taking over' mass media currently is on the verge of dying - because idiots dont pay, and advertising budgets end up with facebook, google, amazon, and microsoft - who promise advertisers to track you more better.

Be sceptical, read around, read crosssection. All good things.

Don't use social media to select your media products, you will be grouped in as 'xenophobic racist idiot' by an algo, and fed only the stuff you like, so you stay on the platform longer.

Dont believe anyone that tells you their alternative news platform will bring you "the truth" - far easier, than actually getting informed in any field, which always includes looking at it from multiple angles, and not following an influencer/commentator of some sorts.

If you still have a problem with people jumping out of boats, after seeing the numbers now vs. the migration crisis in 2015, ask yourself at what point can the media pull that from the front pages, without yourself calling them names.

Simple as that.

If you want to fall down onto whatsapp levels of what flies as a proper political opinion these days - boy you've picked the wrong thread.

And if the only thing you are concerned about is to make you, your side, your country, or your president look good, always and everytime, just because it gives you a good feel, that should always be reason for concern and not cheerfulness.

Because you just handed over your capacity to think critically about something to an ideology.

Left vs. right, never actually matters. In politcs, as in everything else in life its a competition for ideas. But not for good ones, but mostly for popular ones. (People then call them narratives.)

And the one with the bad people coming by boat, at one point has to receive its proper funeral and be buried once and for all.

That was my intention, and I did nothing more than that. What the heck would I care who is the moral winner on 'UK broke up with EU'. Every second word out of my mouth is 'don't treat this like a reality show'. My 'win' scenario is not EU has to be seen as the moral winner. Never was, never will be.

I'm not an - ups, shouldnt say that word.

 

[FGFlann]

To address the relevant part of your post: Nobody cares anyway. You're still wasting time by levelling the accusation, and now you're the shouting man and have ceded your credibility. You're not going to convince a person entrenched in dogma to the point of irrationality, or anyone else for that matter, that their position is wrong simply by giving them a label.

As for the rest of it, wouldn't you be better off putting that in the thread dealing with it?

 

[JoeBloggs777]

I gain absolutely nothing out of you, core or another guy whos username just slipped participating in here.

if you mean me, until Brexit I had voted Labour at every election for the last 30 years, my parents were not originally from the UK and my wife is Asian

 

[Doran754]

Again - it wasnt just the idiot racist comment - it always was mixed in with context, actual arguments, sources. Its just people like shamzie, that try to isolate the 'emotional aspect' and surf on it trying to win the argument.

As usual, I had to delete a vast amount of your reply because it was complete and utter trash. Seriously is anybody even reading these walls of texts? I'll reply to the only part of your post I actually bothered to read.

I don't need to try and isolate emotions to win an argument, I won the argument 4 years ago. I've moved on, you're still crying and riding a wave of " everybodys waycistttt " to try and justify why clearly the majority disagree with your warped world view.

 

[notimp]

What part? Otherwise you are saying most people are racist.

Or its proper to know nothing about what Schengen is, or how the Lisbon treaty was implemented by the UK.

You are such a majority pandering(/seeking), racist propaganda appologist...

Three things. One - if you think its true, that "media lying to us as boat lands on the spanish coast, and eight people jump out of it" was the reason you and your ilk had to vote for brexit, you are xenophobic, racist idiot.

Second - I dont play the rightwing games - of oh no - I'm not a racist biggot, I'm a cultural nativist, and think, that all people should best stay in the country they are born - or only enter legally, which Schengen does its darnest trying to prevent, and the EU actively pays nord african countries up to turkey to prevent as well.

I'll still call you a racist.

Third - the UK never had a problem with illegal migration, during the migration crisis 2015 that it didn't fully control legally. I could even take it if you would criticize germany for the messaging in the migration crisis, but to only blaim the EU without any logic or reason - is a bit rich.

But then you only want to catch people emotionally, right?

(If you have a problem with me stating EU finances authoritarian regimes to put migrants in interment camps in nord africa - those are not my words, but the ones of UN reporteurs on migration.)

edit: Algorithms on social media actually work without moving you into a racist subcategory. First they would find another more marketable listing name, then they go by 'people with similar interest also liked'... Because again, they are not targeting your getting unbiased stuff to further your education with, but simply to increase time spent on their platform. People like familiar stuff, thats what they tend to optimize for. In case that wasn't clear.

and finally -

To make an argument for why the EU was responsible for the UKs position during the migration crisis of 2015, you have to become highly creative, and would end up with a statement like 'well, european Id cards, which we have to accept as well, are notoriously easy to forge in comparison with passports - so while we did all the controls that we wanted - we still got more illegal migration, through EU channels than we wanted. Because we had to let EU citizens in without a passport.
(Argument not made by me, but some of the new UK administrations public communication geniuses, while trying to fashion them a law and order image in post brexit britain.)

And then have to explain, why you think many people would go through the hassle to forge a european ID card, instead of paying some goods transport to carry them as well. Because that part doesnt get stopped (free flow of wares), even after brexit, without a major hit to both economies (If you produce in economies that can source and produce by market demands, you save on booking storage and half of the work expenses).

So the argument, why those people hopping off of a boat in spain, are a reason for the UK leaving the EU is so confused to begin with - that you really should drop it upon closer inspection.

After explaining that three times, and still having geniuses in here that try to sell others breitbart and youtube influencers as the solution to the 'fake journalism problem' they 'feel' I started to call on of them - after the fact, and not in addressing them personally, as xenophobic idiots.

To which a social justice warrior replied, maybe we should consider other motivations for posting racist propaganda, and not react with implying intentions. Hey - maybe they werent racist. Maybe they were just confused, und unable to read this thread, in which we went over that stuff three times already. Lets talk it over with potential racists in here. Let everyone live a little.

To which I replied - lets not.

To which - the person trying to play the underdog replied: nobody likes you, and nobody reads what you write.

Still my point remains - lets not promote racism, or racist memes in here - ok? Find a way to talk about hot topics (or not so how, two years after) without posting the racist meme your uncle sent you in here. Thanks.

 

[Doran754]

You can call me whatever you like, I couldn't care less. You're the exact reason why nobody votes the same way you would like, you ARE the problem. You never learn, you'll never adapt. You'll just continue to swallow yourself and everybody else, you're doomed for failure, but hey, at least you managed to call somebody racist for the 1459837393028th time in this thread.

It's crazy how supporting:

-free speech
-civil discourse
-anti censorship
-individual liberty
-treating people TRULY equally
-tolerance of difference opinions

is now considered a 'far-right wing' position

Anyway, I believe you was making the argument about somebody being racist for the 1459837392029th time. keep up the good work buddy, your arguments and logic are truly breath taking, you're a shaper of minds, a once in a generation Adonis amongst men when it comes to debating.