Super Mario Party to have limited online multiplayer mode



As revealed during Nintendo's Treehouse E3 event, the upcoming Super Mario Party for Switch will actually have online multiplayer, just in a very limited capacity. You won't be able to play full board game matches with others online, but you can choose a new feature called Online Mario-thon, where you get 5 randomly selected minigames to play to see who can win the most. Leaderboards were also briefly mentioned, with more details promised at a later date. This is a step towards this franchise incorporating online play for the first time, but it's been confirmed that Mario=thon will be the only online mode in the game. Super Mario Party launches on October 5.
 
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Should make it so you can play board mode online with friends only. With matchmaking there's bound to be people dropping out
 

xile6

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are you guys really that stupid or are you only trolling here?
people rarely manage to keep a full 4v4 game in splatoon for 3 minutes.
you really think you'd be able to finish a mario party board online?
people'll dc the moment they feel they lost or randomly cause things happen in 30 minutes.

this is so much more reasonable.
Maybe but there are tons of people that spend 6hrs gaming on destiny.
Also what if you want to play a game with friends that dont live close by.

Having full online is aways a good thing. It lets you connect with other.
I dont understand why nintendo doesnt like for people to meet new people and connect.
They have to grow out of these.
 

mr_switch

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Actually Mario party is a very fun game to play with friends and family so limited online connectivity does not affect the overall gameplay experience. The past mario party series all does not have online anyway.
 

Xzi

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If there is one game that should keep the focus on local multiplayer, it's Mario Party. Mario Kart and Mario Tennis? Online should be a focus, but that's because these games have short matches. Even the lowest turn count games in Mario Party take a lot of time, and they don't typically have a satisfying conclusion with so few turns, either. It's a valid point that most games would be too likely to end with only one or two human players left.

That said, not too interested in this game myself. Got a lot of other upcoming purchases for Switch anyway (Mario Tennis Aces, Octopath Traveler, MMX Legacy Collection).
 
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LittleFlame

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are you guys really that stupid or are you only trolling here?
people rarely manage to keep a full 4v4 game in splatoon for 3 minutes.
you really think you'd be able to finish a mario party board online?
people'll dc the moment they feel they lost or randomly cause things happen in 30 minutes.

this is so much more reasonable.
honey it's called playing with friends
 

FAST6191

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AI is not a suitable replacement for real players and would cause a noticeable change in the game. A really good AI can mitigate this, perhaps even greatly, but AI cannot react in the ways a human player can and does, and it can therefore be upsetting for the remaining human players.

Mid-match lobbying or some form of drop in/drop out would be even more horrendous on ruining game flow for existing players. Mario Party is not a kind of game where players can just be transferred in seamlessly. Are we to assume players choose to drop into an existing match? Who would choose to do that? Wouldn't all players wish to start a brand new game from scratch instead of inheriting someone else's progress?

Next, long-form games. There's multiple ways to approach a long-formed game. To see a good example, look at Battlefield. That game is very much drop in/drop out to little consequence with very long times per match. Mario Party is not designed to be drop in/drop out. Further, you seem to assume I'm somehow against long-formed games. Spoiler alert: I'm not. But long-formed games that are meant to be played online must be designed with that in mind. You cannot simply take the existing Mario Party formula and just throw it online, that would be patently bad game design. If they made appropriate changes to better fit the game for online play, now that's a different story.

I also don't see how you correlate saying the existing MP formula is not suited to online play with strangers with saying single player games are dead.

Not if done correctly. Also if fighting games and fps games can watch and imitate some of the things done by humans and overlay those/bias their routines I am sure they can do it for the mario party microgames. Indeed this is a trivial concern for me.

Mario party is also the exact sort of game I would expect people to fall in and out of AI positions seamlessly. The very same thing that makes it a great drunken party game where you can hand off the controller while you go for a piss is what will allow it here.

The inheriting progress thing was a wilder idea but one I will still stand behind, also it was not having random people pop in to late stage matches.
It would need massive refinement but as a starter approach
General idea of the game.
There is a track (in board game parlance it is a race, or if you prefer think ludo) wherein a random number generator forwards position, takes away position, ditto for score. Score is primarily obtained by playing minigames (if you ever played warioware or any kind of minigame collection on a Nintendo system then pretty much that) which are activated by people landing on certain tiles in the race. Some are co-operative, some are single player.
Typically about 4 players are in a game but it would be possible to go higher or lower.

The basic state of the game is easy enough to tell. You have scores, locations of players on the track (though I might break it down into quadrants).
Trivial data for a server to compare really. Might want to wind in some assessment of player skill, be it long form or current session.

Your server sees people playing the same board (or functionally the same board), similar scores, similar locations. Say 1 human and 3 ai each.
One game effectively becomes the host/desired state. One AI then gets boosted or held back to match the human from the other game, the other AIs similarly get boosted or held back to match the ones from the host game. None of this really matters for "fairness" purposes as it is still within the game logic and could have happened normally.
In three or four turns when the game states match up the human player gets transitioned in and then you are away.

Even without that though there is no real reason not to include an online mode that is just classic mario party. "if you don't like it then don't play it". Also from where I sit Nintendo is trying something very risky and controversial in charging for their online services. It can be done but everybody would say they have to bring it and bring it hard, half hearted things like this is not that.

Equally you say "appropriate changes" and I can't think of any that I would make, unless we are going for the inheriting thing and in that case I might add some "random" bonus elements for games just to make things able to sync up even quicker. Alternatively games in a match sort of thing might help (every 10 turns the leader gets to be a winner and then things reset). If the leaderboard is "hidden" between players it would make no sense to have comparing (say if I had been playing for 4 hours and someone else and his mate are just coming in then that match I would be on however many hundred points and they would be on one but I would see my AI they subbed in for get wins accordingly and they just see whatever I got since they joined).

Also was not correlating anything. I was saying it is a dangerous, or at least limiting, mindset to have.
 

pLaYeR^^

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Too bad, I'm missing an online multiplayer mode in Mario Party for a long time now. It would be great to get connected to random people and play full board game matches with them. One of the reasons why I don't play Mario Party games very often is because it's boring if you play them in singleplayer mode. For me it's only fun to play the game together with friends or family. However, I'm still happy that Super Mario Party will have any kind of online multiplayer. Since the game looks great so far, I'll probably buy it.
 

wodkamen420

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Makes no sense why they didn't add private lobby's at the very least for playing with friends. I can see random ppl not being fun as ppl will just quit if they are loosing but a lobby for you and your friends cmon son whats wrong with that
 
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Not if done correctly. Also if fighting games and fps games can watch and imitate some of the things done by humans and overlay those/bias their routines I am sure they can do it for the mario party microgames. Indeed this is a trivial concern for me.

Mario party is also the exact sort of game I would expect people to fall in and out of AI positions seamlessly. The very same thing that makes it a great drunken party game where you can hand off the controller while you go for a piss is what will allow it here.

The inheriting progress thing was a wilder idea but one I will still stand behind, also it was not having random people pop in to late stage matches.
It would need massive refinement but as a starter approach
General idea of the game.
There is a track (in board game parlance it is a race, or if you prefer think ludo) wherein a random number generator forwards position, takes away position, ditto for score. Score is primarily obtained by playing minigames (if you ever played warioware or any kind of minigame collection on a Nintendo system then pretty much that) which are activated by people landing on certain tiles in the race. Some are co-operative, some are single player.
Typically about 4 players are in a game but it would be possible to go higher or lower.

The basic state of the game is easy enough to tell. You have scores, locations of players on the track (though I might break it down into quadrants).
Trivial data for a server to compare really. Might want to wind in some assessment of player skill, be it long form or current session.

Your server sees people playing the same board (or functionally the same board), similar scores, similar locations. Say 1 human and 3 ai each.
One game effectively becomes the host/desired state. One AI then gets boosted or held back to match the human from the other game, the other AIs similarly get boosted or held back to match the ones from the host game. None of this really matters for "fairness" purposes as it is still within the game logic and could have happened normally.
In three or four turns when the game states match up the human player gets transitioned in and then you are away.

Even without that though there is no real reason not to include an online mode that is just classic mario party. "if you don't like it then don't play it". Also from where I sit Nintendo is trying something very risky and controversial in charging for their online services. It can be done but everybody would say they have to bring it and bring it hard, half hearted things like this is not that.

Equally you say "appropriate changes" and I can't think of any that I would make, unless we are going for the inheriting thing and in that case I might add some "random" bonus elements for games just to make things able to sync up even quicker. Alternatively games in a match sort of thing might help (every 10 turns the leader gets to be a winner and then things reset). If the leaderboard is "hidden" between players it would make no sense to have comparing (say if I had been playing for 4 hours and someone else and his mate are just coming in then that match I would be on however many hundred points and they would be on one but I would see my AI they subbed in for get wins accordingly and they just see whatever I got since they joined).

Also was not correlating anything. I was saying it is a dangerous, or at least limiting, mindset to have.
Truth be told, I have seen some impressive "seamless" AI, the most obvious example coming to mind being Forza Horizon 3, where an AI model is trained to ghost your racing style and mannerisms and act as a human player without informing the other human players it's an AI. It's still blatantly clear that the AI is not human, but at least the game remains fun. I still have reservations on how palatable this might be to a board game-style game, but I can agree that a really well-made AI might be alright. Let's say Nintendo can make an AI that can suitably replace a human player, that still doesn't address issues of players dropping in the first place. It's then still an issue, even if remaining players don't notice, as you have to ask "Why are players dropping?" and a designer's role there would be to mitigate match drop rates.

What reasons would you give for people actively wanting to drop in and out of player positions? I think that's a patently false assumption. Why would a player wanting to sit down for an online match wish to inherit another player's personal progress? It's like sitting down to play Monopoly and taking over someone's hand. Not everyone is playing this game in a drunken stupor. A game designer who believed the majority of players of a board game would wish to start in the middle would be laughed out of a meeting room immediately, as it's an asinine assumption. Exception given to games that actively include that as a unique mechanic, of course. As I mention later, players are likely to drop an online MP game if they're losing and don't feel like they could win. Players who drop in are then most likely to inherit losing game progress. That's not at all fair or fun for the player.

Further, once again your idea of an inherited progress system... There are simply too many variables to account for to make such a seamless transition possible while keeping the game fair. Once again, would you go around merging games of Candyland or Chutes n' Ladders? My thinking is that players would be very unhappy with such a system. Just as people wouldn't take kindly to merging board games in real life, they'd be irked by having board games merge digitally. Let's also talk about the logistics of making that possible. It would require very hard balancing and a lot of iteration to get that general idea into a state that's passable as a fair online experience. I can't see a development team getting together and deciding that this is the appropriate way forward when a re-design of the core MP experience to better suit online would be a much more sensible option, and one more likely to actually succeed on schedule.

"If you don't like it then don't play it" is not an excuse to put in a broken mode. I believe MP as it exists now would be a broken mode in online for the reasons I stated earlier. You and I both know how fickle gamers are. It's easy to say now, "Just make it online and whatevs!" but imagine they do just that, and it has the exact problems I mentioned. Would people not then complain again? What designer worth their salt would release a game without appropriately re-designing elements that need it?

Let's consider some of the changes they could make. For one, they would likely need to quicken the game pace. What if, like Smash Tour in Smash 4, every player got to move at the same time? Or at least rolled at once and pre-selected a path simultaneously? Other tweaks, cuts, and additions can be implemented to quicken the game. Next, they'd have to make balancing changes in order to keep the game interesting for players who aren't in the lead. For a long game, players who are behind and who don't believe they can catch up are most likely to drop. If you're losing in a Mario Kart match, the race is only about 3-4 minutes so losing players are more likely to stick 'till the end. For a longer (and slower) game like Mario Party, people are likely to drop more quickly. "It's just a random game with random people, who cares if I drop right now?" Why would a designer not re-design parts of MP in order to make sure the least amount of people drop? Tweaking mechanics and adding "carrots" to keep even losing players interested and incentivized to see a match through to the end would be best. Couple that with quicker gameplay, and the problems I mentioned are mostly mitigated. The game would be more suited for online player, and if done correctly, would still feel like Mario Party.

Designing an online experience is not as simple as throwing your existing single player mode there unchanged. Some games lend themselves to being an online experience more than others, but even games like Mario Kart had to make major behind-the-scenes changes in order to provide a fun multiplayer experience. Even more work is required to do the same with Mario Party, however the net outcome ideally is an redesigned online Mario Party experience that still feels like Mario Party.
 

DeslotlCL

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Why is it so hard for people to remember that fortune street did have online board play and it worked pretty well? I have enjoyed full online board sessions when it was still new. Even when one player left the match, the AI did pretty good overall (hell, even sometimes the AI was smarter and started buying every single property and raising its stocks to the sky, it even almost won a match...)
 
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RedBlueGreen

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Remember how some of the GameCube Mario Party games let you set how many turns you wanted? That's what they should do. Let people set online games to as few as 5 turns.
 

Hells Malice

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Glad they finally went back to the classic style. Looks really good. Don't even really care much about the lack of online. It sucks, but it's also Nintendo.
Definitely getting.
 

FAST6191

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Truth be told, I have seen some impressive "seamless" AI, the most obvious example coming to mind being Forza Horizon 3, where an AI model is trained to ghost your racing style and mannerisms and act as a human player without informing the other human players it's an AI. It's still blatantly clear that the AI is not human, but at least the game remains fun. I still have reservations on how palatable this might be to a board game-style game, but I can agree that a really well-made AI might be alright. Let's say Nintendo can make an AI that can suitably replace a human player, that still doesn't address issues of players dropping in the first place. It's then still an issue, even if remaining players don't notice, as you have to ask "Why are players dropping?" and a designer's role there would be to mitigate match drop rates.

What reasons would you give for people actively wanting to drop in and out of player positions? I think that's a patently false assumption. Why would a player wanting to sit down for an online match wish to inherit another player's personal progress? It's like sitting down to play Monopoly and taking over someone's hand. Not everyone is playing this game in a drunken stupor. A game designer who believed the majority of players of a board game would wish to start in the middle would be laughed out of a meeting room immediately, as it's an asinine assumption. Exception given to games that actively include that as a unique mechanic, of course. As I mention later, players are likely to drop an online MP game if they're losing and don't feel like they could win. Players who drop in are then most likely to inherit losing game progress. That's not at all fair or fun for the player.

Further, once again your idea of an inherited progress system... There are simply too many variables to account for to make such a seamless transition possible while keeping the game fair. Once again, would you go around merging games of Candyland or Chutes n' Ladders? My thinking is that players would be very unhappy with such a system. Just as people wouldn't take kindly to merging board games in real life, they'd be irked by having board games merge digitally. Let's also talk about the logistics of making that possible. It would require very hard balancing and a lot of iteration to get that general idea into a state that's passable as a fair online experience. I can't see a development team getting together and deciding that this is the appropriate way forward when a re-design of the core MP experience to better suit online would be a much more sensible option, and one more likely to actually succeed on schedule.

"If you don't like it then don't play it" is not an excuse to put in a broken mode. I believe MP as it exists now would be a broken mode in online for the reasons I stated earlier. You and I both know how fickle gamers are. It's easy to say now, "Just make it online and whatevs!" but imagine they do just that, and it has the exact problems I mentioned. Would people not then complain again? What designer worth their salt would release a game without appropriately re-designing elements that need it?

Let's consider some of the changes they could make. For one, they would likely need to quicken the game pace. What if, like Smash Tour in Smash 4, every player got to move at the same time? Or at least rolled at once and pre-selected a path simultaneously? Other tweaks, cuts, and additions can be implemented to quicken the game. Next, they'd have to make balancing changes in order to keep the game interesting for players who aren't in the lead. For a long game, players who are behind and who don't believe they can catch up are most likely to drop. If you're losing in a Mario Kart match, the race is only about 3-4 minutes so losing players are more likely to stick 'till the end. For a longer (and slower) game like Mario Party, people are likely to drop more quickly. "It's just a random game with random people, who cares if I drop right now?" Why would a designer not re-design parts of MP in order to make sure the least amount of people drop? Tweaking mechanics and adding "carrots" to keep even losing players interested and incentivized to see a match through to the end would be best. Couple that with quicker gameplay, and the problems I mentioned are mostly mitigated. The game would be more suited for online player, and if done correctly, would still feel like Mario Party.

Designing an online experience is not as simple as throwing your existing single player mode there unchanged. Some games lend themselves to being an online experience more than others, but even games like Mario Kart had to make major behind-the-scenes changes in order to provide a fun multiplayer experience. Even more work is required to do the same with Mario Party, however the net outcome ideally is an redesigned online Mario Party experience that still feels like Mario Party.

Unless your reason for the drop ins and drop outs is "because it is fun to troll people with it" (see various games where that would dump you back in matchmaking) then I would view that as something of a non issue and where that "if you don't like it" thing came in. Similarly with all this talk of AI I get the impression you view mario party as far more serious business than I, or indeed most, -- people still make smash brothers and pokemon into competitions despite both games being wildly unsuited to such a thing. It need not be some kind of game Turing test, just "good enough".

As far as AI problems go then Mario Party AI is perhaps not trivial but nothing I would expect any moderately competent AI team to be able to handle in normal game development timeframes. If you can make a passable collectible card game AI ( https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/duels-planeswalkers-all-about-ai-2014-02-13 ) then this is nothing compared to that. Outside of minigames (themselves no great shake for an AI) the number of variables and meaningful decisions in Mario Party is so low when all is said and done that it is no great issue. Go is a hard problem for board games, mario party board game section is not.

Other than disconnects/pauses then I am still not expecting players to drop into slots they in any way would perceive as inheriting someone else's position. It can work well in some games (people are more than happy to join companies in real life, and we already mentioned the likes of battlefield) but I agree it is less than ideal here. Equally it is still an optional and out there idea separate to the core concept I was heading towards.
With that said I might actually offer that as a quick play match option. Maybe throw in a catch up mechanic as well if it works (similar to double experience/rested player bonus in a mmo or something).

One might argue that snakes and ladders and candyland are not games (do you make any meaningful decisions in either, assuming we are talking about western snakes and ladders/chutes and ladders?) but that is a different discussion.
Variables wise I still reckon you could make it seamless. The chances of any two instances being in the same position at one point in time? Miniscule no doubt. You being able to pervert a couple of games in progress by holding or advancing AI players over the course of a few turns to reasonably match/sync and then merge? Far far more achievable. What is the spread of places you can move per turn? How many times have you seen a fairly radical redistribution of stars or whatever? Abuse that a bit and you can sync games no problem.
Is it fair in the traditional sense of the term? No, not even close. Keep it as something possible, possibly even plausible, in the game and would anybody likely perceive a problem? I would say no, see also mario kart rubber band AI.

"For a longer (and slower) game like Mario Party, people are likely to drop more quickly. "It's just a random game with random people, who cares if I drop right now?""
Not saying it is not a concept at play. I am saying who cares and that such a thing is an absolutely nonsense reason to not have what would technically be trivial internet play in a system crying out for such things and having to prove its worth at every turn.
Similarly some kind of karma system, possibly an invisible server side one, might be in play (it is fairly easy to tell disconnects vs poor internet if you do really care.

"players are likely to drop an online MP game if they're losing and don't feel like they could win"
I am familiar with the idea. Not sure it represents a game breaking issue here, indeed with instant replacement AI (possibly even instant replacement uber AI) it is even less of an issue than it is in real life games. I would possibly go a bit further and say it is the minigames that will keep people there -- one of the common solutions to said problem is to keep it such that the mechanics themselves provide the reward. If your minigames are not fun then there are bigger problems. Actually I might argue that the minigames are the reason for the game and the board section is an illusion of choice, some kind of cooldown/pacing mechanic, and a bit of light griefing. In which case the quick play inheriting option makes even more sense to me.

""If you don't like it then don't play it" is not an excuse to put in a broken mode. I believe MP as it exists now would be a broken mode in online for the reasons I stated earlier."
I am having trouble getting anywhere near it being so fundamentally broken as to make the exercise not worth it. It seems so obvious a move to put it online and the game seems so primed for it.

I imagine they could make a few changes to improve some aspects, such things are possible for any game out there, but I still see nothing that would fundamentally cause the experience to fail, not even close. To that end I find the resistance to the notion, and the criticism of the criticism of lacking it, to be utterly bizarre and incomprehensible. Even more so if they had friend code shared session play in it.
 

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Man, fuckers. Yes, local is always better, but local isn't always an option. Especially for us who grew up with the original Mario Parties, we're adults now, we've moved to study or work, and just can't always meet up for local play but would still love to play TOGETHER.
Guess we'll just go fuck ourselves since you don't want our money.
 

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