Student faces three years in prison for modifying Xbox 360

Crass

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dib said:
That's why I love these topics. It's not "unlucky" when you're a profiteering asshat who decided he could make cash off other people's work. Then everybody starts flipping the fuck out because the government is gonna take away their pirated games.
Again, this isn't about piracy or selling games, he was selling a service. Just like when you take your car to a mechanic, you have to pay him to service your vehicle. There is absolutely nothing illegal with selling your time and services. What he is being charged with is DMCA violation, and if he does get convicted then this will create an incredible dangerous legal precedant against anyone who wants to modifiy for their systems, regardless of intent. I am sure ford and GM would love it if they could force their customers to only use their special certified mechanics, but I am sure you would agree that would be absolutely ludicrous. Imagine if all after market parts for cars were illegal, that would destory a massive industry overnight. ITS THE SAME FUCKING DEAL with Xbox 360s and Wiis.
 

Jamstruth

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The problem with 360 modding is that it is for piracy 90% of the time. There are very few emulators and homebrew games due to the Indie Games service. If its for piracy then the governemnt can't condone it...
 

dib

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Congratulations, you pass basic reading comprehension. But just because you ctrl+F on one article and fail to find the keyword "money" doesn't mean it didn't happen that way. Go Google it if you're really this dense.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!
He was modding them for money
 

Crass

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Jamstruth said:
The problem with 360 modding is that it is for piracy 90% of the time. There are very few emulators and homebrew games due to the Indie Games service. If its for piracy then the governemnt can't condone it...

Again, he isnt being charged with piracy or bootlegging, he is being charged with a DMCA violation for modifying the code on Xbox 360's dvd drive. If he is convicted, then this would open up the legal precedent to charge anyone who modified their Xbox 360 (and potentially other home video game systems like the PSP, PS3 or Wii) with up to 3 years in prison. Obviously its harder to go after people who privately modify their systems in their homes, as opposed to people try to make money by selling this service, but the precedent would still stand. I understand these are hard concepts to understand, but just because you THINK/FEEL something, doesn't mean thats how the real world actually works.
 

Zetta_x

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dib, all you have established is that it is possible that he did it for money.

You have not established anything about being in violation with DMCA because he did it for money.
 

dib

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Crass said:
dib said:
That's why I love these topics. It's not "unlucky" when you're a profiteering asshat who decided he could make cash off other people's work. Then everybody starts flipping the fuck out because the government is gonna take away their pirated games.
Again, this isn't about piracy or selling games, he was selling a service. Just like when you take your car to a mechanic, you have to pay him to service your vehicle. There is absolutely nothing illegal with selling your time and services. What he is being charged with is DMCA violation, and if he does get convicted then this will create an incredible dangerous legal precedant against anyone who wants to modifiy for their systems, regardless of intent. I am sure ford and GM would love it if they could force their customers to only use their special certified mechanics, but I am sure you would agree that would be absolutely ludicrous. Imagine if all after market parts for cars were illegal, that would destory a massive industry overnight. ITS THE SAME FUCKING DEAL with Xbox 360s and Wiis.
No, no no no no and no. There has not been any case that I have ever seen of a a company going after a mere _end user_ with the DMCA and I pay attention to these things. For filesharing, yes. For bootlegging such as what this asshat was doing--absolpositivefuckinglutely.

The DMCA is already law. It is already illegal to modify a console. No precedent needs to be set regarding this. If you circumvent a protection and are not covered under one of the few DMCA protections (such as the Library of Congress reserving the right to archive things) then you are willfully breaking the law.

Am I making this clear enough? Your car analogies are wrong and sad and wrong but more to the point completely and utterly irrelevant. There is something absolutely illegal about selling your time and services when the service is breaking the law. Nobody cares about your opinion of companies. The law isn't formed around your opinion. If you cannot wrap your head around this simple reality then I hope you contract ebola after being raped by wild monkeys.
 

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QUOTE said:
rjAOd.jpg
LOS ANGELES — Opening statements in the first-of-its kind Xbox 360 criminal hacking trial were delayed here Wednesday after a federal judge unleashed a 30-minute tirade at prosecutors in open court, saying he had “serious concerns about the government’s case.”

“I really don’t understand what we’re doing here,” U.S. District Judge Philip Gutierrez roared from the bench.

Gutierrez slammed the prosecution over everything from alleged unlawful behavior by government witnesses, to proposed jury instructions harmful to the defense. When the verbal assault finally subsided, federal prosecutors asked for a recess to determine whether they would offer the defendant a deal, dismiss or move forward with the case that was slated to become the first jury trial of its type. A jury was seated Tuesday.

Among the judge’s host of complaints against the government was his alarm that prosecutors would put on two witnesses who may have broken the law.

One is Entertainment Software Association investigator Tony Rosario, who secretly video-recorded defendant Matthew Crippen allegedly performing the Xbox mod in Crippen’s Los Angeles suburban house. The defense argues that making the recording violates California privacy law. The other witness is Microsoft security employee Ken McGrail, who analyzed the two consoles Crippen allegedly altered. McGrail admitted that he himself had modded Xboxes in college.

“Maybe two of the four government witnesses committed crimes,” the judge said from the bench. “I think it is relevant and the jury is going to hear about it –- both crimes.”

The government had fought to keep the witness conduct a secret from the jury.

Crippen is charged with two counts of violating the anti-circumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and faces a maximum five years for each count if convicted. The government maintains Crippen, a hotel car-parking manager, ran a small business from his Anaheim home modifying the firmware on Xbox 360 optical drives to make them capable of running pirated copies of games.

The judge on Wednesday even backtracked on an earlier ruling that had prohibited Crippen, 28, from raising a “fair use” defense at trial.

Crippen was hoping to argue to jurors that it was legal to hack the consoles because the modification had non-infringing purposes, like allowing the machines to run homebrew software, or permitting limited fair use of copyright material such as backup copies of video games.

While the judge ruled last week that such a defense was not permitted by the DMCA, he seemingly changed course during his speech.

“The only way to be able to play copied games is to circumvent the technology,” Gutierrez said. “How about backup games and the homebrewed?”

The fair-use issue came up as the judge berated prosecutor Allen Chiu’s proposed jury instructions, which included the assertion that the government need not prove that Crippen “willfully” breached the law, in what is known as “mens rea” in legal parlance. The judge noted that the government’s own intellectual property crimes manual concerning the 1998 DMCA says the defendant has to have some knowledge that he was breaking the law.

“The first prosecution 12 years later, and you’re suggesting a mens rea that is akin to exactly contrary to the IP manual: that ignorance of the law is no excuse?” the judge barked.

“You didn’t even propose a middle ground,” Gutierrez continued. “What’s getting me more riled, it seems to me I cannot communicate the severity to you of what’s going on here.”

As the judge worked through his laundry list of complaints over the prosecution, word of the unusual judicial rebuke spread through the courthouse, drawing a trickle of about a dozen prosecutors and defense attorneys into the courtroom to watch from the gallery.

“I apologize to the court,” Chiu said at the end.

Court is recessed until 1:30 p.m.
Source: Wired
Original Post Source:Wired Notice below what was left out.
QUOTEMatthew Crippen, 28, faces three years in prison on two allegations of violating the anti-circumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act for financial gain. Crippen, who’s from Anaheim, allegedly had a business modding Xbox 360s for between $60 and $80 a pop, allowing the consoles to run pirated games or unapproved homebrew software. He was indicted after allegedly performing the service for an undercover corporate security investigator with the Entertainment Software Association, then again for an undercover federal agent.
Post your sources right! As you can see you mislead many people!
 

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heartgold said:
oook, sorry dude, your bad luck. We can't alter an item what we payed for, so does that even make it our property?
closedeyes.gif
I beleive technicaly we have ownership of the hardware. the software we just agree to a license of usage when we purchase the product. same for games and pretty much any other hardware.
 

notmeanymore

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I know the article says it's just a DMCA violation and makes no reference to the money; it's not the money that makes it illegal. In my experience (3 1/2 years of MapleStory Private Servers, 2 years of watching those servers get shut down), I've seen that game companies only go after those who make money. Whether that profit comes from "donations" or literal payment matters not.

Further evidence toward my point: http://venturebeat.com/2009/11/06/how-inve...-2-cyber-thief/ Activision cracking down on someone selling leaked copies of MW2, and not taking down the free torrent leaks also mentioned in the article.
 

Crass

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dib said:
No, no no no no and no. There has not been any case that I have ever seen of a a company going after a mere _end user_ with the DMCA and I pay attention to these things. For filesharing, yes. For bootlegging such as what this asshat was doing--absolpositivefuckinglutely.

The DMCA is already law. It is already illegal to modify a console. No precedent needs to be set regarding this. If you circumvent a protection and are not covered under one of the few DMCA protections (such as the Library of Congress reserving the right to archive things) then you are willfully breaking the law.

Am I making this clear enough? Your car analogies are wrong and sad and wrong but more to the point completely and utterly irrelevant. There is something absolutely illegal about selling your time and services when the service is breaking the law. Nobody cares about your opinion of companies. The law isn't formed around your opinion. If you cannot wrap your head around this simple reality then I hope you contract ebola after being raped by wild monkeys.

QUOTEAuthorities arrested Crippen last year on accusations that he violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. He was ultimately charged with two counts of trying to circumvent anti-piracy measures. This trial marks the first time a federal prosecution for console-modding has reached a jury trial.

He isnt being charged for bootlegging as he did not create or sell backup copies, HE ONLY MODDED THE FIRMWARE. If whoever he modded it for went on to use it for piracy, then thats their own problem, not his. Notice the bit I Italicized, that's called a legal precedent. Look it up. The DMCA as it stands isn't clear on everything, and there's lot of loopholes (for instance, jail breaking an Iphone is acceptable) but if this had gone to trial (which it appears not to be, because this is clearly an abortion of fucking justice) then it would set the legal precedent to charge and convict anyone for console modding regardless of their intent (intent meaning they do it for fun, to learn, to use backups, to run homebrew, OR TO PIRATE, its all equally bad in their eyes, do you not understand this?) . This isn't a matter of my opinion. ITS FACT.
And my car analogy is valid, and its often used as an analogy when debating the DMCA. http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100720/01092010287.shtml
 

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Even if this trial goes through, and the defendant is found guilty, it wouldn't do much of anything to the pirating community as the main hackable consoles (Wii and PSP for example) are easily softmodded and the DS is modded through a cartridge not a copy protection bypass in the hardware, which could be seen as separate from the hard mods done to the 360. I could see certain methods like DARKCorp for the Wii may be illegal under DMCA as it bypasses the protection so as to let games boot through the Disc Channel.
 

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TehSkull said:
Even if this trial goes through, and the defendant is found guilty, it wouldn't do much of anything to the pirating community as the main hackable consoles (Wii and PSP for example) are easily softmodded and the DS is modded through a cartridge not a copy protection bypass in the hardware, which could be seen as separate from the hard mods done to the 360. I could see certain methods like DARKCorp for the Wii may be illegal under DMCA as it bypasses the protection so as to let games boot through the Disc Channel.
I am not saying its gonna destroy the community over night and cops are gonna bust down your doors if you flash your xbox, but thats not the point. Its the principal of the matter thats important. And yes, Wii softmods and hardmods circumvent the DRM put in place on the Wii, and technically could be considered a DMCA violation, if this goes to court and he is found guilty then it most certainly will just as modding your xbox dvd drive is currently in a legal-gray area (the whole point of this trial right? right???? I mean seriously this appears to be WHOOOSHING over some of your guys heads).

Think about, what he did currently isnt illegal (the whole point of this trial is to determine that). Its easy to make it look like hes a pirate and hes modding thousands of xboxs, and probably deserves to be charged with bootlegging, but he isnt being charged with bootlegging, hes being charged with a DMCA violation. all you idiots say he should be convicted, but all that does is open the door for law enforcement to go after anyone for violating the DMCA, even if they aren't pirating. Im probably doing a terrible job describing this, but its not tought to understand people!
 

notmeanymore

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Crass said:
TehSkull said:
Even if this trial goes through, and the defendant is found guilty, it wouldn't do much of anything to the pirating community as the main hackable consoles (Wii and PSP for example) are easily softmodded and the DS is modded through a cartridge not a copy protection bypass in the hardware, which could be seen as separate from the hard mods done to the 360. I could see certain methods like DARKCorp for the Wii may be illegal under DMCA as it bypasses the protection so as to let games boot through the Disc Channel.
I am not saying its gonna destroy the community over night and cops are gonna bust down your doors if you flash your xbox, but thats not the point. Its the principal of the matter thats important. And yes, Wii softmods and hardmods circumvent the DRM put in place on the Wii, and technically could be considered a DMCA violation, if this goes to court and he is found guilty then it most certainly will just as modding your xbox dvd drive is currently in a legal-gray area (the whole point of this trial right? right???? I mean seriously this appears to be WHOOOSHING over some of your guys heads).

Uh no. The Wii softmods don't count under the same legal territory as an Xbox hardmod. The Wii is using a external homebrew software (NeoGamma, USB Loader GX, etc) to boot the games and just putting the backup in your disk drive wouldn't boot the game.

To clarify: NeoGamma is just as illegal as an Xbox modchip, but The Homebrew Channel is not.
 

Crass

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TehSkull said:
Crass said:
TehSkull said:
Even if this trial goes through, and the defendant is found guilty, it wouldn't do much of anything to the pirating community as the main hackable consoles (Wii and PSP for example) are easily softmodded and the DS is modded through a cartridge not a copy protection bypass in the hardware, which could be seen as separate from the hard mods done to the 360. I could see certain methods like DARKCorp for the Wii may be illegal under DMCA as it bypasses the protection so as to let games boot through the Disc Channel.
I am not saying its gonna destroy the community over night and cops are gonna bust down your doors if you flash your xbox, but thats not the point. Its the principal of the matter thats important. And yes, Wii softmods and hardmods circumvent the DRM put in place on the Wii, and technically could be considered a DMCA violation, if this goes to court and he is found guilty then it most certainly will just as modding your xbox dvd drive is currently in a legal-gray area (the whole point of this trial right? right???? I mean seriously this appears to be WHOOOSHING over some of your guys heads).


Uh no. The Wii softmods don't count under the same legal territory as an Xbox hardmod. The Wii is using a external homebrew software (NeoGamma, USB Loader GX, etc) to boot the games and just putting the backup in your disk drive wouldn't boot the game.
Look up xbox drive flashing, I think your confused as to what it is exactly. Its technically not a hard mod, your simply modifying the firmware on the DVD player (kinda like modifying the firmware on your wii derp!) It violates your warranty opening the xbox 360's case (same with the wii), but its definitely not illegal to do so.

QUOTE
The Wii softmods don't count under the same legal territory as an Xbox hardmod.
To clarify: NeoGamma is just as illegal as an Xbox modchip, but The Homebrew Channel is not.

Says who?
 

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TehSkull said:
Uh no. The Wii softmods don't count under the same legal territory as an Xbox hardmod.Try reading the laws before you talk about them.

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap12.htmlQUOTECopyright Law of the United States of America
and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code
Circular 92
Chapter 12
Copyright Protection and Management Systems
§ 1201. Circumvention of copyright protection systems2

(a) Violations Regarding Circumvention of Technological Measures. — (1)(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. The prohibition contained in the preceding sentence shall take effect at the end of the 2-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this chapter.
The requirement of digital signing and enforcement of DRM are technological measures that protect access to a work. Modding a console in order to run homebrew (unsigned code) and backup copies (code with an incorrect signature and DRM bypasses) is circumventing those measures.

Doesn't matter the nature of the mod (hard or soft, drive of main firmware, bypass chip or otherwise), if it removes or lessens the protection systems in a way not sanctioned by the company enforcing them, the DMCA makes it illegal.

Yes, that means even backing up a commercial DVD to put it on your ipod is illegal (as you're breaking CSS encryption, which though trivial by today's standards, is still a protection under the law).

THAT'S WHY SHIT LIKE THIS IS IMPORTANT, an attempt to overturn how fucked up the laws are.
 

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Crass said:
Look up xbox drive flashing, I think your confused as to what it is exactly. Its technically not a hard mod, your simply modifying the firmware on the DVD player (kinda like modifying the firmware on your wii derp!) It violates your warranty opening the xbox 360's case (same with the wii), but its definitely not illegal to do so.

No that's exactly what's illegal under the DMCA. Don't get me wrong, I don't approve of the DMCA but it clearly states in Page 5, Section 103 (http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/hr2281.pdf) that
QUOTE said:
No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.
Which is exactly what you're doing by altering the DVD drive's software.

Rydian
The requirement of digital signing and enforcement of DRM are technological measures that protect access to a work. Modding a console in order to run homebrew (unsigned code) and backup copies (code with an incorrect signature and DRM bypasses) is circumventing those measures.

Doesn't matter the nature of the mod (hard or soft, drive of main firmware, bypass chip or otherwise), if it removes or lessens the protection systems in a way not sanctioned by the company enforcing them, the DMCA makes it illegal.

Yes, that means even backing up a commercial DVD to put it on your ipod is illegal (as you're breaking CSS encryption, which though trivial by today's standards, is still a protection under the law).
The Homebrew Channel's legality is debatable, especially considering Team Twiizers has gone out of their way to make piracy severely looked down upon. As for commercial DVDs, I recall that being ruled as fair use, recently. I could be wrong and I'll have to check my sources but I'm near positive I heard something along those lines.
 

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TehSkull said:
As for commercial DVDs, I recall that being ruled as fair use, recently. I could be wrong and I'll have to check my sources but I'm near positive I heard something along those lines.
When it is then the DMCA is disregarded, but it's not in all cases. That was a recent ruling and until then, it was illegal (thus the fall of DVDDecryptor).
 

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