Starting from February 12th through February 25th, Sony is dropping the prices of select PS4 Slim bundles in the US to $249. You can get the Uncharted 4 and Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare bundles with the updated Dualshock 4 and 500GB HDD at that price. No info so far on a price reduction in Europe.

The Nintendo Switch launches on March 3rd in the US for a suggested retail price of $299.

Source

 

[Deleted User]

I don't think you understand what i'm saying so let me break it down for you.

Smart phones weren't a thing when the GBC/GBA/DS/PSP were around so a large amount of the "CASUAL" base bought and played on those because what else are they going to play on? now phones are a thing so portables have lost that crowd but the foundation the actual "gamers" are still around. 70 mil sales is fantastic any way you cut it, i understand your trying to compare it to the DS phenomenon but like i just explained that comparison makes no sense.

Nintendo is about the release the strongest portable ever.

when the 3ds was released the smartphones weren't a thing as they are now. so some casuals still bought it back then.
i'm comparing it also to gba and gb/c. that's a serious drop.
the switch isn't the most powerful gaming tablet (yes, gaming tablet). you can just search a little to find more tablets that are made for gaming, and are more powerful then the switch. also the switch doesn't have a lot of launch-day titles (or first year titles) that's why not that much people, even Nintendo fanboyz, are going to buy it at launch. and it isn't as powerful as ps4/pc/xb1 so not that much of the gamers will buy it, and I don't see it appealing to casuals...

 

[Bonestorm]

when the 3ds was released the smartphones weren't a thing as they are now. so some casuals still bought it back then.
i'm comparing it also to gba and gb/c. that's a serious drop.
the switch isn't the most powerful gaming tablet (yes, gaming tablet). you can just search a little to find more tablets that are made for gaming, and are more powerful then the switch. also the switch doesn't have a lot of launch-day titles (or first year titles) that's why not that much people, even Nintendo fanboyz, are going to buy it at launch. and it isn't as powerful as ps4/pc/xb1 so not that much of the gamers will buy it, and I don't see it appealing to casuals...

smart phones were VERY MUCH a thing in 2011... also no one even remembers how bad the 3ds did in the first year because of how expensive it was with no great launch games

anyway i made my point, which refutes all of the ones you brought up

The Switch is a Nintendo portable console with TV OUT capability's not a tablet. Being shaped like a square or having a touch screen doesn't make it a tablet. I don't think the Switch will do well because it's too expensive and the launch titles are lacking but "power" has nothing to do with it. History has shown time and time again the weaker consoles consistently win console wars sales wise exception being this gen with the PS4. All Nintendo has to do is stay competitive "power" wise so we'll see.

 

[Pacheko17]

This is pretty good, I feel like grabbing a PS4 now.

 

[Foxi4]

- tegra software on non tegra hardware.
Im not a specialist, but if they make a conventional processor/gpu, then people will find out how to run it on non-nintendo devices. also out of interest- about the android software, does it run directly on hardware and different architectures just cant run the games or on a software layer? if the first is true then how do normal android games run on tegra deevices, and if the second is true- then why the performance isnt so bad?

also clamshell/slider designs arent popular nowdays, and arent as convenient as the "one-block" design (idk the real name). that will make them a lot more thick or make the controllers less convenient (yes the 3ds thumb stick aint that great)...

Not all features are available on non-Tegra GPU's, it depends on the implementation of the technology. Besides, these are still Android binaries, that's not what we were talking about. As for physical design, there is nothing comfortable or convenient about modern phones which are 90% screen and 100% useless - they're a triumph of style over substance. They're far too thin for comfort, introducing a slider would not make them much thicker and would make them a hell of a lot more comfortable to hold.

Several ways tactile controls are an issue:
Putting them in requires room & also adds weight to do it reliably. You either make the screen(s) smaller to fit them in (3DS) for a certain size of device or you have to make a sliding mechanism (PSP Go). Both are less than ideal and both aren't used by 99.99% of phone/tablet users today (let alone desired). A design like this is not ideal for both gaming and practical phone usage - it's a mish-mash of compromises as we can tell from the 3DS analogue sticks and the PSP Go's control design. Plus they are both thicker. A clamshell design and sliding design all adds to thickness of an equivalently-sized phone or tablet.

Size, shape and weight all influence convenience and whether or not something is slipped into your pocket (or not) versus another device that's just more practical (even if it has all the phone and communication apps, any gaming console with tactile controls loses out on convenience). It may not be an issue for some enthusiasts, but I think it's an issue for most of the population.

It's not a compromise, it's a different form factor. There's no unwritten rule saying that all phones necessarily need to be thin, buttonless slabs - that's not appealing to the target customer *or* fit for purpose. You're saying that this is an "issue" when it could be better-described as a niche. Long story short, it's entirely possible to merge the two devices, and very easily at that. A "gamer phone" could shake things up in the industry.

 

[DarthDub]

$250 would be amazing...If it was the Pro.

 

[LinksAsleeping]

Well. I picked it up from Walmart.

Give them a call, you have nothing to lose, and $50 to gain.

 

[foob]

A "gamer phone" could shake things up in the industry.

Tactile controls have no place on a phone in today's market though. So we disagree. I think acceptance will be extremely low (much lower than a dedicated device). Niche is right. Very small niche. There are too many compromises with both phone design and gaming design when converging the two, in my opinion. Plus it's been attempted by various companies, NOKIA included. Not to mention price. People want more than a rudimentary camera in their phones, for instance. Particularly when paying top-dollar. So the Vita and DSi/3DS approach to cameras (ie. cheap) would have to be changed too. I'd hate to see the cost of the device & I know that I'd hate to use it.

I think if it were that simple to converge the two, it would have been done already - successfully. Instead we have a string of failures. A dedicated device would do much better (and has so far).

 

[Foxi4]

Tactile controls have no place on a phone in today's market though. So we disagree. I think acceptance will be extremely low (much lower than a dedicated device). Niche is right. Very small niche. There are too many compromises with both phone design and gaming design when converging the two, in my opinion. Plus it's been attempted by various companies, NOKIA included. Not to mention price. People want more than a rudimentary camera in their phones, for instance. Particularly when paying top-dollar. So the Vita and DSi/3DS approach to cameras (ie. cheap) would have to be changed too. I'd hate to see the cost of the device & I know that I'd hate to use it.

I think if it were that simple to converge the two, it would have been done already - successfully. Instead we have a string of failures. A dedicated device would do much better (and has so far).

Tactile controls have no place on a phone today? The number one, primary complaint of every single person who's ever gamed on a phone is the *lack of tactile controls*. The issue is so big that it spawned an industry in and out of itself - the industry of detachable USB/Bluetooth controllers and keyboards for phones. The supposed "additional cost" is next to zero - pre-existing phone hardware is more than sufficient to support gaming, it's merely lacking buttons, which cost pennies. It works both ways - a portable console has everything it needs to support average smartphone functionality *except* a GSM module, which costs a buck if you buy them in bulk. You are correct, it has been tried before, however the technology wasn't quite there yet. Just because a certain design failed doesn't mean that the concept was bad - it might've just been a bad design. I sincerely don't understand what your issue is here - all that separates a contemporary smartphone from a gaming console is software support and buttons, the latter can be added at very little expense in terms of unit thickness thanks to tactile domes.

 

[foob]

Tactile controls have no place on a phone today? The number one, primary complaint of every single person who's ever gamed on a phone is the *lack of tactile controls*.

Let me clarify.

Of course gamers want tactile controls. It's just that designing them in & attracting *the masses* to them in a phone is - I think - a heavily compromised situation that will not gain any *mass market* acceptance - let alone be profitable for any company that attempts this. It's convergence gone too far, basically. That's what I meant by tactile controls have no place on a phone today: not for the masses & not for the companies who make them. In other words, they don't sell. And won't.

Think about this: you want a decent gaming device but you also want a decent camera (not an afterthought camera like we currently see in dedicated portables). A dedicated camera is one of several things people want at x price today. And you want a decent, convenient size yet that has a large enough screen (which today is pretty easy to get) but also want very ergonomic controls for long hours of gaming without pain. Speaking of hours of gaming, how is that battery life? And you want a decent all-round phone that doesn't make you look like a dork or make you feel like one, nor compromise with size/ weight/ camera specs / responsiveness, etc.

A device with tactile controls add to manufacturing complexity & servicing costs. And probably adds a lot more risk to the company regarding patents too.

Not only do you have more design challenges, you have serious pricing challenges - assuming you want to attract the masses and be profitable. What price point do you want to hit? And who will be buying your machine? Will they buy a competitor product instead (which already has heaps of games?). What about games pricing? If you want to make your own games (not do the typical Android/iOS thing) then you have to attract third parties too. Lots have tried and failed. I think it's one of the hardest things to do - converging gaming and phone and being successful at it. I'm not talking about add-ons, I'm talking about all-in-one devices that are both convenient and functional phones while being convenient and functional & comfortable gaming devices with good battery life & other specs. Without sticking out like a sore thumb or being harder to pocket. And yet being affordable.

I don't think it's easy to pull off at all. There are way too many challenges. I'd much rather be using a dedicated device selling for a reasonable sum & not trying to be all things to everybody.

 

[Foxi4]

Let me clarify.

Of course gamers want tactile controls. It's just that designing them in & attracting *the masses* to them in a phone is - I think - a heavily compromised situation that will not gain any *mass market* acceptance - let alone be profitable for any company that attempts this. It's convergence gone too far, basically. That's what I meant by tactile controls have no place on a phone today: not for the masses & not for the companies who make them. In other words, they don't sell. And won't.

Think about this: you want a decent gaming device but you also want a decent camera (not an afterthought camera like we currently see in dedicated portables). A dedicated camera is one of several things people want at x price today. And you want a decent, convenient size yet that has a large enough screen (which today is pretty easy to get) but also want very ergonomic controls for long hours of gaming without pain. Speaking of hours of gaming, how is that battery life? And you want a decent all-round phone that doesn't make you look like a dork or make you feel like one, nor compromise with size/ weight/ camera specs / responsiveness, etc.

A device with tactile controls add to manufacturing complexity & servicing costs. And probably adds a lot more risk to the company regarding patents too.

Not only do you have more design challenges, you have serious pricing challenges - assuming you want to attract the masses and be profitable. What price point do you want to hit? And who will be buying your machine? Will they buy a competitor product instead (which already has heaps of games?). What about games pricing? If you want to make your own games (not do the typical Android/iOS thing) then you have to attract third parties too. Lots have tried and failed. I think it's one of the hardest things to do - converging gaming and phone and being successful at it. I'm not talking about add-ons, I'm talking about all-in-one devices that are both convenient and functional phones while being convenient and functional & comfortable gaming devices with good battery life & other specs. Without sticking out like a sore thumb or being harder to pocket. And yet being affordable.

I don't think it's easy to pull off at all. There are way too many challenges. I'd much rather be using a dedicated device selling for a reasonable sum & not trying to be all things to everybody.

That's not how the phone market works - it's not a spaghetti factory. The only phone designed to appeal to the mass market is the iPhone, and even Apple has distanced itself from the "one size fits all" approach by introducing the C and Plus ranges. Phones are designed for demographics, not mass appeal - "spec phones" are for hardware geeks, budget phones are for mums who don't care, Blackberries are for business etc. - gamers are a viable demographic that could be marketed to effectively. It doesn't take much to figure that out either - the PS4 is on track to be selling as well or better than the PS2, the demand for dedicated gaming platforms is there. If you could take that experience on the go through 4G connectivity with an adequate control scheme and add exclusive games to boot, I'd be first in line to pick a handset like that. The current trend in smartphones is detrimental to users - the race to the thinnest slab is a race to the bottom, as the size restraints are reflected by low battery life and underperformed SoC's due to poor cooling. Making phones just a little bit thicker would improve functionality tremendously, it just takes one brave designer to actually go through with an idea like that.

 

[foob]

That's not how the phone market works - it's not a spaghetti factory. The only phone designed to appeal to the mass market is the iPhone,

To me it's a niche. It just happened to introduce some finger-friendly technologies years before anyone else and also happened to benefit from coming off the back of the iPods. So it gained tremendous success. Other phones are mass-market much more than this boutique range of phones.

and even Apple has distanced itself from the "one size fits all" approach by introducing the C and Plus ranges.

They had to; sales are down & the competition is up. Plus those billions in offshore profits that are never repatriated to avoid the tax man & those tax havens must be doing some good some of the time.

Phones are designed for demographics, not mass appeal - "spec phones" are for hardware geeks, budget phones are for mums who don't care, Blackberries are for business etc.

Phones have become so commoditized today. That 'this phone is for business users, this is for entertianment-centric people, this is for email'..etc)...that fake segmentation stuff was old back when NOKIA were doing it - trying to segment users by the pre-installed apps on the phone. Sony Ericsson and the rest were at it too with their Walkman branded phones, camera-centric phones, etc. It's forced segmentation & it was rubbish back then & thank god we see less of this fakery now. Blackberry are fighting for survival, so I don't know what 'business' they are in today if they don't get more mainstream success. Less and less people are seeing their 'business' interests taken care of with Blackberries.

- gamers are a viable demographic that could be marketed to effectively. It doesn't take much to figure that out either - the PS4 is on track to be selling as well or better than the PS2, the demand for dedicated gaming platforms is there.

Of course it's there. But the PS4 is a home console. Not a phone.

If you could take that experience on the go through 4G connectivity with an adequate control scheme and add exclusive games to boot, I'd be first in line to pick a handset like that.

I'd love to see 1) what form it takes 2) what price it sells for 3) what battery life it has 4) whether or not enough people have this 'enthusiast' type of thinking to make the product profitable. The track record so far is filled with various attemps full of failure. I think we'd have at least one popular gaming phone now if this were viable.

The current trend in smartphones is detrimental to users - the race to the thinnest slab is a race to the bottom, as the size restraints are reflected by low battery life and underperformed SoC's due to poor cooling. Making phones just a little bit thicker would improve functionality tremendously, it just takes one brave designer to actually go through with an idea like that.

Agree (to some extent). Though thinnest is not really my point. My point is that once users are used to thin they often don't go fat. Unless they have a specific reason to. Most uses are actually satisfied, I would say. The market has matured and tech has improved a fair bit. Gaming controls make just about every device less appealing to hold and use as a phone - from budget devices to higher-end designs. I think designing half-decent tactical controls makes the phone experience worse. And having a half-decent phone experience makes the gaming side worse. In my opinion these two should never meet because they work against each other. And I think the market has proven it so far. Though it would be interesting to see if someone has the guts to do it again.

 

[Foxi4]

To me it's a niche. It just happened to introduce some finger-friendly technologies years before anyone else and also happened to benefit from coming off the back of the iPods. So it gained tremendous success. Other phones are mass-market much more than this boutique range of phones.

They had to; sales are down & the competition is up. Plus those billions in offshore profits that are never repatriated to avoid the tax man & those tax havens must be doing some good some of the time.

Phones have become so commoditized today. That 'this phone is for business users, this is for entertianment-centric people, this is for email'..etc)...that fake segmentation stuff was old back when NOKIA were doing it - trying to segment users by the pre-installed apps on the phone. Sony Ericsson and the rest were at it too with their Walkman branded phones. It's forced segmentation & it was rubbish back then & thank god we see less of this fakery now. Blackberry are fighting for survival, so I don't know what 'business' they are in today if they don't get more mainstream success. Less and less people are seeing their 'business' interests taken care of with Blackberries.

Of course it's there. But the PS4 is a home console. Not a phone.

I'd love to see 1) what form it takes 2) what price it sells for 3) what battery life it has 4) whether or not enough people have this 'enthusiast' type of thinking to make the product profitable. The track record so far is filled with various attemps full of failure. I think we'd have at least one popular gaming model now if this were viable.

Agree (to some extent). Though thinnest is not really my point. My point is that once users are used to thin they often don't go fat. Unless they have a specific reason to. Most uses are actually satisfied, I would say. The market has matured and tech has improved a fair bit. Gaming controls make just about every device less appealing to hold and use as a phone - from budget devices to higher-end designs. I think designing in tacticle controls makes the phone experience worse. And having a half-decent phone experience makes the gaming side worse. In my opinion these two should never meet. And I think the market has proven it so far. Though it would be interesting to see if someone has the guts to do it again.

Gamers are gamers - you provide them with games and they'll pick up your platform. They go outside too, and many would like to take their gaming with them. As I said before, past performance is not indicative of future results - previous attempts failed because of poor execution, not because the idea is bad. In fact, gaming on smartphones is inevitable - people want all-in-one devices. Phones already consumed PDA's, PNA's, media players and, to a large extent, cameras for amateur use - portable consoles are next. They're powerful portable computers that could be used for gaming and are currently underutilised. We'll have to agree to disagree on this so that we don't detract from the conversation at hand, we're straying really off-topic here.

 

[XDel]

Can I take it with me?

 

[foob]

In fact, gaming on smartphones is inevitable - people want all-in-one devices. Phones already consumed PDA's, PNA's, media players and, to a large extent, cameras for amateur use - portable consoles are next. They're powerful portable computers that could be used for gaming and are currently underutilised. We'll have to agree to disagree on this so that we don't detract from the conversation at hand, we're straying really off-topic here.

I agree we all want it. I just wonder what form that would take. Because I can't even imagine one being good without making the other side bad. And vice versa. With cameras, often the typical tactile controls and dials are not integrated into phones and tablets - for obvious reasons. Here we are asking tactile controls to be integrated. So that's why I'm negative on this sort of convergence. Doing so takes away from the other tasks. It doesn't always, but it does here, I think.

Anyway, Sony massages PS4 prices. This is good

 

[Foxi4]

I agree we all want it. I just wonder what form that would take. Because I can't even imagine one being good without making the other side bad. And vice versa. With cameras, often the typical tactile controls and dials are not integrated into phones and tablets - for obvious reasons. Here we are asking tactile controls to be integrated. So that's why I'm negative on this sort of convergence. Doing so takes away from the other tasks. It doesn't always, but it does here, I think.

Anyway, Sony massages PS4 prices. This is good

My point was that the controls can be hidden. Hell, even detachable - look at the Switch. I'm sure it could be done in a smart way. Phones adapted to the functionality they took over, they would change once more once they reach the next point of convergence, at least that's what I believe. The phones we use now look nothing like phones from 10 years ago, and in another 10 years future phones will look nothing like the ones we use now.

Speaking of phones from a decade ago, I was always partial towards the Sidekick form factor - it was very functional. It'd work for a console, and if the exposed buttons would bother users, just hide them under the screen just like the keyboard - there's plenty of space there.

 

[Deleted User]

smart phones were VERY MUCH a thing in 2011... also no one even remembers how bad the 3ds did in the first year because of how expensive it was with no great launch games

anyway i made my point, which refutes all of the ones you brought up

The Switch is a Nintendo portable console with TV OUT capability's not a tablet. Being shaped like a square or having a touch screen doesn't make it a tablet. I don't think the Switch will do well because it's too expensive and the launch titles are lacking but "power" has nothing to do with it. History has shown time and time again the weaker consoles consistently win console wars sales wise exception being this gen with the PS4. All Nintendo has to do is stay competitive "power" wise so we'll see.

"My" galaxy tab ISNT A TABLET, but a touch screen-enabled square- shaped portable console with TV-Out capabilities. How silly does it sound to you? When you add a bt controller to it, some of which look and act like the switch's joy-cons the only diffrence from the switch is the price and game library. And as I see it, the tab takes it as of right now, because- look at the 3 games that the switch got- and compare with the MILIONS that the tab has. Dont say "android games are shitttt"- even if only 0.1% of them are good AAA games its still more then 1000 games, and I suspect there are far more then that. And I dont even talk about the nvidia shield tablet. I didnt only talk about the power of the hardware- but also about the software. What the switch has to offer (from what were shown right now, in the first year)? Zelda, mario oddysey and a milking simulator? And a few indie multiplats? Also times change, now the devs prefer a good hardware to work with and gamers - good graphics. Of course, not more then the fun factor, but its not a small thing. there are lots of devs (indies especially) who use lots of computing power for their games and dont want to optimize it for every platform (see minecraft, no mans sky etc... ) so they just wont port it to weaker console instead of optimizing it.

The portable consoles will die if they wont merge with the smartphones or do something.

I say that the switch is a tablet with hdmi and not home consike with portable capabilities because its leans more toward the smartphones and tablets then toward console/pc power-wise. Its comparable to ps3 which was long ago beaten by smartphone processors. You cant make a true portable with the processing power of a stationary device- you either make it hot, heavy (for battery) or short battery life. The switch isnt an exception.

 

[BullyWiiPlaza]

Bye bye Switch. Honestly, just get the superior PS4 device with still better hardware than the pathetic Nintendo 2017 console. Nintendo is literally dead after the Wii U failure and the Switch being on par if not worse than the Wii U (less 3rd party support, less launch titles, paid online, crappy multiplayer by default, no innovative games, barely multiplayer games, cumbersome friend list system, more expensive accessoires, etc.). Inform yourself before you ride the "The Switch is going to save Nintendo" train

 

[DeslotlCL]

Bye bye Switch. Honestly, just get the superior PS4 device with still better hardware than the pathetic Nintendo 2017 console. Nintendo is literally dead after the Wii U failure and the Switch being on par if not worse than the Wii U (less 3rd party support, less launch titles, paid online, crappy multiplayer by default, no innovative games, barely multiplayer games, cumbersome friend list system, more expensive accessoires, etc.). Inform yourself before you ride the "The Switch is going to save Nintendo" train

This. Just this.

 

[Bonestorm]

Bye bye Switch. Honestly, just get the superior PS4 device with still better hardware than the pathetic Nintendo 2017 console. Nintendo is literally dead after the Wii U failure and the Switch being on par if not worse than the Wii U (less 3rd party support, less launch titles, paid online, crappy multiplayer by default, no innovative games, barely multiplayer games, cumbersome friend list system, more expensive accessoires, etc.). Inform yourself before you ride the "The Switch is going to save Nintendo" train

Why do people just make stuff up and past it as fact?

 

[Saiyan Lusitano]

and two HD rumble dildos with extra- smooth vibrations

Soft-core/hentai-like games with the glorious HD Rumble of the Joy-Cons would bring most of Vita's customers to the Switch.

Grab that, Nintendo!