When you think emulator frontends, there's a high chance that RetroArch comes to mind. Its simple design and ease of use have made it an incredibly popular application, for years and years. And now, you'll be able to officially use RetroArch from the comfort of Steam. In an attempt to legitimize and grow their brand, Libretro will be releasing RetroArch on Steam, at the end of the month. It'll launch on July 30th, for free, and on Windows only, initially, with a Linux and MacOS version to follow shortly after. There won't be any difference between the Steam build and the one you can get normally on Libretro's official site, but the team is looking into incorporating features from Steam's platform in the future. This feature follows a recent RetroArch update, which lets users directly dump their official game discs to their computer, allowing for easy backups. You'll also be able to take a Sega CD, Saturn, PlayStation 1, or 3D0 disc. put it in your PC's disc drive, and run it directly on RetroArch, with more consoles to be supported in the future.

There are also plans in the works for developers of older IPs to release their games on Steam, through using RetroArch, though no further details are known about that yet.

Source

 

[Pipistrele]

no no no no no NO NOOOOO!!
DRM platforms are NOT where ROMs belong! This is VERY bad news for software preservation.

1) It's just an emulator frontend, you bring you own roms.
2) Retroarch isn't the first nor the last open source application to appear on Steam; that doesn't mean it'll disappear from GitHub or something.
3) In most cases of open source stuff on Steam, you don't even need to actually launch Steam to run those apps, so preserving the thing is a matter of downloading and saving it somewhere.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

It better remain free and no microtransactions.

*Obligatory Epic Games exclusive joke :v*

 

[Bladexdsl]

in b4 nintendo try to dmca it because they claim it can run emulators

 

[Pipistrele]

in b4 nintendo try to dmca it because they claim it can run emulators

They would try to DMCA it long ago if they could. Legally, they can't even DMCA actual NES emulators, because those don't use any of Nintendo's assets. Sure, they can suffocate developers with frivolous lawsuits (like Sony did with Bleem a while ago), but that's not cost sufficient for Nintendo at this point.

 

[Xzi]

How are people so confused about the legality of this? Emulators are not illegal, and even if they were, RetroArch is not itself an emulator. ROMs aren't illegal either, at least not as backups for games you own in physical form. Putting RA on Steam is a win for developers, as they can sell ROMs digitally or encourage legal procurement of game discs.

no no no no no NO NOOOOO!!
DRM platforms are NOT where ROMs belong! This is VERY bad news for software preservation.

This makes zero sense. RetroArch on Steam will be free and function exactly the same as the GitHub version. It'll play ROMs downloaded/ripped from anywhere, and even if developers decide to sell ROMs, I seriously doubt they'll come with Steamworks or any form of DRM since they aren't being launched from Steam, but rather from an emulator inside of RetroArch's frontend.

If anything, Steam will increase awareness of RetroArch and cause a greater number of people to preserve their own ROM collections as a result.

 

[smf]

If anything, Steam will increase awareness of RetroArch

For better or worse.

and cause a greater number of people to preserve their own ROM collections as a result.

It won't. If you have managed to avoid all emulators ever, then you live in a cave without internet access & have no idea about steam.

 

[eriol33]

wow, if this this works, maybe we can buy roms legally from now on?

 

[Xzi]

For better or worse.

I don't see how it can possibly be for worse with nothing legally questionable about the frontend itself.

It won't. If you have managed to avoid all emulators ever, then you live in a cave without internet access & have no idea about steam.

Just because someone might have heard of certain individual emulators doesn't mean they've necessarily heard of Libretro or RetroArch.

 

[Jayro]

This is awesome. I do have to wonder, though, about how well this will play in the future. By that I mean, there are multiple Retroarch cores that are non-commercial. Yet with Retroarch in the Steam store, it'll be tempting for IP holders of NES/Genesis/Aracde games to start selling DLC associated with Retroarch. So, does cross the commercial threshold or not? Admittedly unlike SBC it's actually reasonable to use GPL cores so it could be a lot less of an issue. It does make me worry, though.

ninjistix is right, though. I can't imagine Nintendo (or Sony or Microsoft) like this. It'll greatly reduce the barrier for a lot of old IP holders to sell games cheaper without the big three getting a cut. Of course, Steam takes a pretty big cut of its own. One thing I'd like to see is a few more menu/frontends developed because there's a lot of people who find the current one lacking. I'd argue Valve should do it but while Big Picture mode might be nice for some, their standard client is pretty bad IMHO.

Well nobody is holding a gun to your head to make you purchase anything, but if devs sell things for RetroArch, who cares? Don't buy it, and it won't affect you.

 

[Asia81]

I never liked Retroarch, it's seriously a pain in the ass to just set-up to get everything working, with these cores, so many settings, a disgusting and non-friendly UI... Bruh.
I'm stick to VBA ou DEsmume, so much convenient.

 

[MetoMeto]

How is that legal? I mean RA it self is, but knowing what its used for how come steam people let it be?

The way i see it is (and im wrong perhaps) they sell you a gun but no bullets, because guns with bullets are illegal but guns alone aren't, so its ok, they will find bullets elswhere....

What am missing?

I mean its great haha, i iust tont understand how can ra be on steam anyway...

 

[kuwanger]

Well nobody is holding a gun to your head to make you purchase anything, but if devs sell things for RetroArch, who cares? Don't buy it, and it won't affect you.

Unfortunately, that's the sort of attitude that tends to poison the well of good will that are emulator writers. So, even if I don't contribute to questionable activities, other people who do can still indirectly effect the future progress of emulators which does effect me. There's already a lot of drama around Retroarch as its gained a lot of focus while the emulator writers themselves are ignored. And the funny part, of course, is that people complain about Retroarch over the same reason they avoid the source emulator--relatively terrible, in their opinion, frontends. :/

I think Retroarch is valuable. I think the emulator developers themselves make something valuable. And I think that something like Retroarch would be a good thing to have on Steam so IP holders could sell ROMs and end the quasi-blockade* that is "roms are piracy"--aka 'mp3s are piracy". It's not that any of this is not a doable thing. It's just that reasonably it's better to play nice and ask permission, even when it's not needed, because the point of Retroarch shouldn't have been to just be a technological platform--which it is, and why it's so legally gray area on some things--as much as a collaboration platform. Honestly, at least for the moment it sounds like some effort is going that way, and I do hope it continues.

The way i see it is (and im wrong perhaps) they sell you a gun but no bullets, because guns with bullets are illegal but guns alone aren't, so its ok, they will find bullets elswhere....

Or selling an mp3 player without songs.. Seriously, Retroarch is for playing content. Some right holders have, directly or indirectly, sold the content digitally. Others are starting to rip their own collections. It's a chicken and egg thing, much like how digital music sales went where there was a lot of back and forth about how it couldn't possibly be people with massive CD collections wanting to consolidate their music nor would they ever want to buy more. The better analogy is wandering around in a desert and someone is provided cheap/free canteens, and the owner of the well refuses to sell you water because of course you'll just pirate it.

* Some IP holders already have, either in walled garden (Nintendo), one off consoles (often crap quality or legally dubious), or in relatively open compilations (with still often crap quality or legally dubious). Imagine if all your digital music was sold as albums each with its own bundled PC program to play it. It'd be a mess. :/

 

[smf]

I don't see how it can possibly be for worse with nothing legally questionable about the frontend itself.

Some of their binary distributions violate licenses of the emulators they ship. They do a good job of silencing anyone who complains, whenever I had dealings with them it appeared to operate like a cult.

Just because someone might have heard of certain individual emulators doesn't mean they've necessarily heard of Libretro or RetroArch.

You need to try harder to convince me that hearing about RetroArch will persuade someone to dump their collection, when other emulators didn't.

 

[Xzi]

Some of their binary distributions violate licenses of the emulators they ship. They do a good job of silencing anyone who complains.

Hmm, do you have any specific examples? I imagine the main concerns would be profiting off of these emulators or not giving the developers credit, but RetroArch is free and it probably has a long scrolling credits screen you can access somewhere within it.

You need to try harder to convince me that hearing about RetroArch will persuade someone to dump their collection, when other emulators didn't.

What do you mean "dump" their collection? Any pre-existing ROM collection they have is already compatible with RetroArch. If you're referring to ripping ROMs from physical discs, that isn't even necessary if people don't want to do it. Per the OP, you'll be able to play a lot of games directly from discs without the need to rip them first. Of course, it is beneficial to have digital backups regardless, since physical media never lasts forever.

 

[smf]

Hmm, do you have any specific examples? I imagine the main concerns would be profiting off of these emulators or not giving the developers credit, but RetroArch is free and it probably has a long scrolling credits screen you can access somewhere within it.

For a start they ship emulators with non commercial clauses that end up linking to GPL code, which is prohibited by GPL. They tried to come up with a licensing workround in libretro, or at least they claim that in public. Thanks to leaked chats we know that privately they admit it doesn't work, but if you try to discuss it in public then you get trolled and bullied.

RetroArch may be free to download, but they are making money out of donations. Which also goes against the non commercial use clauses.

If they only shipped GPL based emulators then there wouldn't be any legal problems (until a lawyer figures out a good DMCA anti circumvention argument anyway).

What do you mean "dump" their collection?

I was referring to your claim "and cause a greater number of people to preserve their own ROM collections as a result."

If you don't mean "dumping" them (i.e dumping roms, ripping cd's etc) then what did you mean by "preserve"?

 

[Ryccardo]

How is that legal? I mean RA it self is, but knowing what its used for how come steam people let it be?

The way i see it is (and im wrong perhaps) they sell you a gun but no bullets, because guns with bullets are illegal but guns alone aren't, so its ok, they will find bullets elswhere....

What am missing?

It's more like a syringe - you can use it to inject legal drugs, illegal drugs, or take the third option (homebrew) and just refill your printer or squirt water on that bird that annoys you

Imagine if all your digital music was sold as albums each with its own bundled PC program to play it. It'd be a mess. :/

Ahhh, they tried that with a non-negligible amount of audio CDs (not just the 2005 sony scandal) and video DVDs, trust me
inb4 epic store joke

 

[Xzi]

For a start they ship emulators with non commercial clauses that end up linking to GPL code, which is prohibited by GPL. They tried to come up with a licensing workround in libretro, or at least they claim that in public. Thanks to leaked chats we know that privately they admit it doesn't work, but if you try to discuss it in public then you get trolled and bullied.

I'll have to look into that more, thanks for the info.

RetroArch may be free to download, but they are making money out of donations. Which also goes against the non commercial use clauses.

I don't see how, people are donating to support the frontend which RetroArch provides, they aren't necessarily donating because of the emulators which can be accessed through it. After all, RetroArch can also be used as a launcher for modern games, game engines, media players, and utility apps.

I was referring to your claim "and cause a greater number of people to preserve their own ROM collections as a result."

If you don't mean "dumping" them (i.e dumping roms, ripping cd's etc) then what did you mean by "preserve"?

I meant that more people will start collecting ROMs, whether legal or illegal, as a result of more exposure being given to an all-in-one emulation frontend like RetroArch. More distribution = more preservation.

 

[smf]

I don't see how, people are donating to support the frontend which RetroArch provides,

non commercial clause is to prevent anyone who makes money from having anything to do with your work. It's a binary choice, you accept donations or you distribute non commercial emulators.

The way you see it would make non commercial clauses completely useless, because people would say "you're not paying for non commercial stuff, you're paying for my value add". Non commercial clauses were to prevent even a value add.

They have burned a lot of bridges trying to argue loopholes.

I meant that more people will start collecting ROMs, whether legal or illegal, as a result of more exposure being given to an all-in-one emulation frontend like RetroArch. More distribution = more preservation.

More distribution doesn't increase preservation, we reached critical mass a long time ago. You can only increase preservation now by dumping rare, unreleased or prototype games.

 

[Xzi]

The way you see it would make non commercial clauses completely useless, because people would say "you're not paying for non commercial stuff, you're paying for my value add". Non commercial clauses were to prevent even a value add.

The reverse is true here though, emulators are the value add for RetroArch since they aren't a required or necessary part of using it. And voluntary donations are not the same thing as being asked to pay, you're basically gifting money to the developers independent of whatever project(s) they might be working on at the time.

More distribution doesn't increase preservation, we reached critical mass a long time ago. You can only increase preservation now by dumping rare, unreleased or prototype games.

I'd say "critical mass" is pretty hard to gauge. Some titles have been distributed a lot more than others, even without counting the rarest ones.

 

[gamesquest1]

urgh, people confuse me, what's with all the talk of drm and all that shit, even if this did branch into a drm ridden build of retro arch (which I'm pretty sure will never be the case) who cares, I doubt they would drop support for the normal builds, but from the sounds of it steam is simply lowering their guard a little to give things like retroarch a platform, let's face it emulators etc have been on google play store for years even paid for snes/gba emulators

steam has simply been a little too cautious in the past, it's a good thing for them to get on board with allowing emulators, and it's also good for retroarch to become a distribution platform for old IP holders to get their games out for sale with the minimum level of effort to allow people to legally buy old classics in a nice drm free rom format with no cost on their end short of uploading a rom to the steam as drm for retroarch

 

[DKB]

People getting upset at digital rights management is my new fetish.

OT: I say this is pretty cool.