Homebrew RetroArch - A new multi-system emulator

[vigi_lante]

OK. I tested the newest build. It works as it should for a lot of games that have a correspondent resolution in the emu settings. For example, SNES games looks perfect using 512x224 and Genesis 640x224.

But maybe it could be better functioning as the Wii version of Mednafen, which works correctly with whatever resolution you throw at it – automatically selecting the best video mode.

The way Retroarch works right now can be problematic for systems that use multiple resolutions, like Genesis. If you configure it to 640x224, it will work correctly for most games (since most use 320x224), but the few that use 256x224 will not (so you need to change the resolution to 512x224). There is also games that use 320x224 and 256x224 for some parts.

It could also be a huge problem with Final Burn, since the resolutions we already have don’t cover all games and you need to know beforehand the specific resolution of the game in order to select the correct video mode.

Like I said before, I have the impression that Wii-Mednafen just double the original horizontal resolution of the game (with GX) and use the video interface to stretch the picture to 640. So it will automatically work with all games.

Unfortunately there isn’t a video mode suitable for GBA games.

But overall everything is very well done. Congratulations to everyone involved.

 

[Hielkenator]

@ Toadking:

Look at other emulators.
Retroarch does not pass the low res signal to your tv it should.
If you out put a low res signal, real snes for instance, you will get the natural artifact of scanlining.
The TV does this and nothing can be done about this naturally.
This is because of the fact a snes outputs 240p.

Any signal higer than 240/ 244 p will eliminate these artifacts.
These artifact called scanline are a result of the crt technology leaving out some line/ Ideally half of them.
These thin lines are becoming black.

A signal of 480p will draw all lines, resulting in no scanlines.
A signal lower than 480p but fed into retroarch, wich then sends the upscaled of 480p to your tv will result in flicker, and no scanlines.
ONCE AGAIN, these resolution changes do not matter on a lcd tv. An lcd tv is natively progressive and will deinterlace no matter what.
LCD will effectively double those lines to make up for any interlaced signal.

The beauty of 240p is that your crt tv only shows even or odd lines resulting in a flicker free ( 240p = 240 line is half the screen but stretched by the crt technology naturally ) pin sharp picture, due to the naturall scanline artifacting. Purely because crt's are not meant to display progressive. They will only display the signal you feed, wich is half the native resolution of 480. The tv just leaves the other half out. Those lines between are skipped and are darker/ black. These are scanlines. These come naturally if you feed the right signal.
This is only of use for people using crt's.

RETROARCH is feeding the wrong signal from your wii.
It will have to sent the proper resolution to your tv to get authentic pictures.

You should really read up on this, ALL other emulators can do this now.
If you never seen scanlines, you are either to young, or have never played on a crt the way these games should be played.
These games were developed with these artifacts in mind.
Scanlines will give a more difined picture and will add depth to all those lovely sprite graphics

Retroarch just has to put out the raw resolution and you'll be fine.
right now retroarch makes up for the missing lines in those low res signals.
On a lcd tv this will not be noticable. YOU NEED A CRT TO TEST.
Remember crt's are analog devices, after the signal hits the tv the tv will handle this naturally.
Some tv's will get overscan. this is also something natural for a crt tv. It's just the way these things work.
If your tv gets a 240p signal or similar scanlines will happen.
The picture you'll get will be Exactly the same as on a real console.
So it will not be "like"or""close to", it will exactly the same.
This way of feeding signal to crt those consoles did back in the day, signified that era.

In short, a crt tv needs the pure low res signal ( original consoles native resolution ) to have the best picture possible.
An lcd will upscale and deinterlace no matter what, so these low res settings are of no use for lcd users ( though these might clear the picture up, depending of your lcd's deinterlacing processor. Some resolution are scaled better on different tv's, so it might be a nice option to have.)

Sorry to be repetitive, but it's hard to explain when english is not my mother tongue.
Please try to understand I am trying to help.

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

 

[vigi_lante]

@ Hielkenato


Are you sure that you are actually changing the resolution to 224p or 240p?

I consider myself obsessive about this subject and, like I said, overall it works as it should for the systems that have a correspondent resolution in the emu settings, with beautiful low-res and progressive picture – displaying scanlines just like the others emulators for Wii.
There is definitely something wrong in your end if you are not getting the same results as me, since I’m using the same build that you sent to me.

My Wii is NTSC, btw.

 

[Hielkenator]

@ Hielkenato


Are you sure that you are actually changing the resolution to 224p or 240p?

I consider myself obsessive about this subject and, like I said, overall it works as it should for the systems that have a correspondent resolution in the emu settings, with beautiful low-res and progressive picture – displaying scanlines just like the others emulators for Wii.
There is definitely something wrong in your end if you are not getting the same results as me, since I’m using the same build that you sent to me.

My Wii is NTSC, btw.

Hmm, that might be possible....

Are you using rgb scart?Not composite?...Also I'm on PAL Wii set to 480i
I have no trouble with any of the other emus...could it be a PAL-NTSC problem?
If this is the case, we've found a bug I think...
but i still do not how this could happen as the roms are ntsc...

 

[sunypraystation]

thanks for all your help guys, my games were slowed down because i did not have the wii in 60hz which made it buggy for somereason.

 

[helyblackstorm]

OK. I tested the newest build. It works as it should for a lot of games that have a correspondent resolution in the emu settings. For example, SNES games looks perfect using 512x224 and Genesis 640x224.

But maybe it could be better functioning as the Wii version of Mednafen, which works correctly with whatever resolution you throw at it – automatically selecting the best video mode.

The way Retroarch works right now can be problematic for systems that use multiple resolutions, like Genesis. If you configure it to 640x224, it will work correctly for most games (since most use 320x224), but the few that use 256x224 will not (so you need to change the resolution to 512x224). There is also games that use 320x224 and 256x224 for some parts.

It could also be a huge problem with Final Burn, since the resolutions we already have don’t cover all games and you need to know beforehand the specific resolution of the game in order to select the correct video mode.

Like I said before, I have the impression that Wii-Mednafen just double the original horizontal resolution of the game (with GX) and use the video interface to stretch the picture to 640. So it will automatically work with all games.

Unfortunately there isn’t a video mode suitable for GBA games.

But overall everything is very well done. Congratulations to everyone involved.

Hi

Where do you download the new build? I search in begining topic and don't find...

You can send me link?

The Final Burn games(especially CPS1 e CPS2 games) works in 240p if use the right(native) resolution?

Thanks!

PS: Você é brasileiro? Se puder me mandar o link da nova versão ficarei muito grato...

Vlws!

 

[groose]

Hi there,

I made some quick and dirty comparison shots. Snes9x-Next, Yoshi's Island, Point Filtering.

640x480i vs. 512x224p

NTSC monitor, Japanese Wii, component cables (YPBPR), progressive scan turned off in the Wii settings.

If need be, I can also take a shot of the same scene running off an FC Dual plugged in S-Video on the same monitor. But except for the extra sharpness and color correction of component, I can assure you it's virtually the same as 512x224 RetroArch =)

 

[Hielkenator]

Hi there,

I made some quick and dirty comparison shots. Snes9x-Next, Yoshi's Island, Point Filtering.

640x480i vs. 512x224p

NTSC monitor, Japanese Wii, component cables (YPBPR), progressive scan turned off in the Wii settings.

If need be, I can also take a shot of the same scene running off an FC Dual plugged in S-Video on the same monitor. But except for the extra sharpness and color correction of component, I can assure you it's virtually the same as 512x224 RetroArch =)

And you do not notice the flicker?
Compare it to snesgx and you'll see what i mean
And yest again I mention I connect through RGB scart. on a rgb scart input on normal PAL tv.
i get LOTS of flicker. I do not get flicker in other emus.
I guess it's a pal isseu.

also your monitor must be a dual sync monitor, is it capable to display a 15Khz signal?
TV and computer/ arcade monitors are different things.

I can clearly tell retroarch is de-interlacing the signal. No doubt. It's showing both even and odd lines in conjuntion resulting in annoying flicker.
240p is named 240 p for a reason. Right now it's just 640x240i

 

[groose]

also your monitor must be a dual sync monitor, is it capable to display a 15Khz signal?
TV and computer/ arcade monitors are different things.

I have a Sony PVM-14M4 which used to be a decent monitor used in broadcasting and professional video editing.

You'll find its specifications/manual etc here: http://www.broadcast...il.cfm?id=15997

EDIT: WTF at the prices on this site!? I got mine for 3500 Yen (35 euros)on Yahoo! Auctions. Crazy!

 

[Hielkenator]

Please compare the output of other emu using the option "original" or "double strike".
you will see the picture is flicker free compared to retroarch gx, this will result in a smoother framerate also...
Only 240 lines in one pass. righ now retroarch tries to get both even and odd lines in one pass effectively adding stress to performance and flicker.
In other words it doing de-interlacing a low res signal to match the wii native resolution. at least it looks like it.

 

[groose]

Please compare the output of other emu using the option "original" or "double strike".
you will see the picture is flicker free compared to retroarch gx, this will result in a smoother framerate also...

I'm sorry, I can't seem to replicate any of the issues you are having. I've got a perfectly stable, flicker-free image.
As for framerate, I can't discern any noticeable difference. Have you turned frameskip off in Fceu-GX and WiiMednafen before comparing?

Could more people with a PAL set up share their findings?

 

[Hielkenator]

Hmm, shame for me. Hopefully there's a solution.
It does not matter if it is on my account.... I'd love to have retroarch giving those mint pictures you showed!

PS did you properly test the flicker?

Try viewing slightly of your monitors screen and compare both emulators.
it's a 60hz signal vs 15khz signal.

All snes roms for example drop 10 frames a sec.
no matter what region all revert to 50 frames a sec when changed resolutions.

There's something degrading performance , maybe it's a region configuration PAL/NTSC

Would it be a good idea to region change my wii to test?


@ Toadking :

Please look at video settings for PAL region
Just changed my wii to output NTSC signal ( with wiimod 3.0 ) and I'm getting perfect 240p ( and similar ) images with beautifull scanlines!
No flicker!

All in all it has something to do with PAL signal. ( 60hz/ 50hz-576i/ 480i ?)
All ntscu games run at 50 frames.....

 

[Dogway]

guys a question, how do you input custom resolutions? I only see custom ratio, but that doesn't seem to be it.

 

[ploggy]

Are you using the newest compiled build?

I'm having a problem with my gc arcade stick. L and R aren't working with any of the cores, I think it has something to do with Retroarch not being able to detect when the L/R triggers are not fully pressed?

Does Retroarch only see when the trigger is only partially pressed?


GX seems to pick up the buttons fine?

 

[Toad King]

Hmm, shame for me. Hopefully there's a solution.
It does not matter if it is on my account.... I'd love to have retroarch giving those mint pictures you showed!

PS did you properly test the flicker?

Try viewing slightly of your monitors screen and compare both emulators.
it's a 60hz signal vs 15khz signal.

All snes roms for example drop 10 frames a sec.
no matter what region all revert to 50 frames a sec when changed resolutions.

There's something degrading performance , maybe it's a region configuration PAL/NTSC

Would it be a good idea to region change my wii to test?


@ Toadking :

Please look at video settings for PAL region
Just changed my wii to output NTSC signal ( with wiimod 3.0 ) and I'm getting perfect 240p ( and similar ) images with beautifull scanlines!
No flicker!

All in all it has something to do with PAL signal. ( 60hz/ 50hz-576i/ 480i ?)
All ntscu games run at 50 frames.....

I think currently RetroArch's internals assume a 60hz refresh rate, even for PAL video. This can be fixed so PAL video modes can run at fullspeed (albeit with no video sync).

 

[Hielkenator]

Hmm, shame for me. Hopefully there's a solution.
It does not matter if it is on my account.... I'd love to have retroarch giving those mint pictures you showed!

PS did you properly test the flicker?

Try viewing slightly of your monitors screen and compare both emulators.
it's a 60hz signal vs 15khz signal.

All snes roms for example drop 10 frames a sec.
no matter what region all revert to 50 frames a sec when changed resolutions.

There's something degrading performance , maybe it's a region configuration PAL/NTSC

Would it be a good idea to region change my wii to test?


@ Toadking :

Please look at video settings for PAL region
Just changed my wii to output NTSC signal ( with wiimod 3.0 ) and I'm getting perfect 240p ( and similar ) images with beautifull scanlines!
No flicker!

All in all it has something to do with PAL signal. ( 60hz/ 50hz-576i/ 480i ?)
All ntscu games run at 50 frames.....

I think currently RetroArch's internals assume a 60hz refresh rate, even for PAL video. This can be fixed so PAL video modes can run at fullspeed (albeit with no video sync).

So does this mean screen juddering and flickering on all pal wii consoles? In order to play ntsc region roms?
Vsync can be set in the cfg file, it runs ntsc games on a pal system. Jittering and screen tearing, and still the flickering stays the same, so no scanlines...
Can't the ntsc video output be matched? Or is retroarch getting it's info from the wii itself?
Again snesgx does not have these problems with ntsc vs pal at all. It displays games fine in low res on my pal system.
Are you trying to tell retroarch gx has a totally different approach?
Hpefully this will be fixed upon release, I'll be happy to help testing.
I'll try to upload vid on filetrip, hopefully my camera pick up the scanlines. It should defenitely pickup the flicker.

EDIT: http://filetrip.net/view?692ODAOgnC

 

[Vague Rant]

Sorry for the feature request hustle, but are there any plans for a Neo Geo Pocket/Color core? The NeoPop-based Mednafen core is solid, and already running on Wii with WiiMednafen.

On a related note, would it be possible to allow mapping screen rotation to buttons? For most consoles this is pointless, but as handhelds, both the WonderSwan and NGP have games that use on-the fly rotation, e.g. Cool Cool Jam (NGP), where guitars are played upside down, while the sax is played in a vertical orientation:

Wasabi Produce: Street Dancer on WonderSwan is even worse, with three different orientations (one per style of music):

Returning to the UI to switch rotation on games like these kind of kills the mood. Obviously, this complicates controls in some ways, and would be a low priority if accepted, but a great boon to some games.

 

[Disorarara]

The full FBA core was not released with the Wii version due to it being so large it cannot load some larger ROMs. If you want to give it a try though, you can download it here: https://anonfiles.co...1e15056451c9182 (Extract it to apps/retroarch-wii, keeping the name CORE.dol. On load, it will rename it correctly.) Please note that ROMs will crash the emulator if they run out of memory. I've found most ROMs around 5-7 MB load fine, and 10 MB is probably the limit

Wouldn't ripping out Neo Geo, CPS1 and CPS2 (essentially redundant since there are separate cores) parts make the full FBA core much smaller and allow for more games to play?

 

[Toad King]

The full FBA core was not released with the Wii version due to it being so large it cannot load some larger ROMs. If you want to give it a try though, you can download it here: https://anonfiles.co...1e15056451c9182 (Extract it to apps/retroarch-wii, keeping the name CORE.dol. On load, it will rename it correctly.) Please note that ROMs will crash the emulator if they run out of memory. I've found most ROMs around 5-7 MB load fine, and 10 MB is probably the limit

Wouldn't ripping out Neo Geo, CPS1 and CPS2 (essentially redundant since there are separate cores) parts make the full FBA core much smaller and allow for more games to play?

It would be a lot of work to save maybe a megabyte of executable size, and that guess is very generous.

 

[XDel]

I would love to dig into this for PrBOOM if anything, but when ever I set the core to PrBOOM and select DOOM2.wad I get a Core Dump.

I also tried setting this to the SNES core, but loading roms also gives me a core dump. Sighh... What could I be missing? There are a few emulators and homebrews that do this to my Wii.