Religion. The Last Debate

[zeromac]

Here is my view on this whole God matter

God is real and he isn't at the same time.
God is real in the sense that God is the hope that mankind believes in
God isnt real in the sense that he is not a physical being nor can you see or touch him

So to sum it all up, God is the hope that there is some higher power controlling your being. It's just that mankind has given a physical form to god (ie. body face white beard..)
Happy now?

 

[em2241992]

Can't say there is or isn't. I'm not arrogant or mind numbingly blind enough to think solidly there is or isn't as there's no proof solidly either way.

I agree with this. I want God to exist, it would give me hope and reason for being here, but if he doesn't than so be it. I have no concrete proof of God's existence, and I am pretty sure no one else really does. All we can do is wait and find out when we die, will we go to an after life, a heaven or hell, or nothing. We don't know, how can we? Because of a book that is proclaimed to be written by God, wheres proof that it was not written by other so called profits that wanted attention and power

 

[BobTheJoeBob]

Lucifer is God's "fallen angel," the devil.

Weren't we as well? I'm pretty sure that's exactly what we're here for, otherwise we wouldn't even have religion. Main difference between humans and "angels": angels don't have a choice to believe in God because they have proof. However, they can rebel. It's happened before, assuming the holy books aren't story books.

Wrong. Something that is imperfect cannot come from a perfect being. It is illogical.

EDIT: Can God build a wall it cannot break down?

Have you ever read Genesis? It clearly states that our flaws are a result of our rebellion against God.

It's incredibly easy to argue that rebellion doesn't bring imperfection to a perfect entity. Whatever that entity does is perfect. If this applies to God, then it applies to us as well. God DID command the genocide of the Canaanites, you know. Numbers, 33:50-52

Angels cannot rebel. In th Qur'an the devil is not an angel but a gin (Google) but was such a good gin he was considered an angel. Humans are also not angels, we were a creation of god with the right of free will. And when I say god can do anything, I mean anything, that include creating an imperfect being, it's not illogical.

I honestly do not know if God exists, but if God did exist, then why are we here?(nihilism) What is our purpose for being here, simple amusement? If God created us he must have created us for a purpose. So far science explains everything about our existence, such as the environment is stable to suit us, we have all the elements to make human DNA which is the base of our existence.
As we live our life, we grow and die, and for what? At least in the scientific explanation, we came into existence by chance and conditions providing. Because of this we technically have no true purpose, and the only reason we know we exist is we developed a conscience, we recognize that we exist. If we didn't then none of this would even be questioned or explored. The universe is full observed because of the way we perceive it(anthropic principle). It is also possible that only I exist and everything else is nothing more than my mind at work(solipsism).
Also I read in earlier posts about God preventing evil. What is evil, it is a concept based on certain morals laid down by humans and religious concepts. But who wrote that religious context, prove it was God. Humans deem things evil, but it is all based on morals. All things good and evil are definition based on human definition and characteristics.
With all of these possibilities and many more which I don't know, how can we possibly prove if a deity or deities exist?

The purpose of life is quite a vast subject so I'll tell you some that I know of.
First, god wanted a creation that had free will and chose to love god out of free will. Also life is a test, the test to see whether all the good we have done in our lives outweighs the bad's. He also wants us to explore this world he created.
Those are a few reasons, there's probably more. I suggest google.

QUOTE(Zetta_x @ Sep 13 2010, 02:10 AM)

Before I continue, I wanted to post that we are assuming there is a god for if there is not a god, then my posts below would not be relevant.

----

Why do most religions that idolize a god always make the god almost human like as gender and body as if it was walking on earth. Study material of religious activities normally have a humanistic point of view as if it were derived from a human. That being said, all religious activities take place on Earth. This would be consistent with a perspective that thought Earth was the only place in existence which is coincidentally around the same time as most religions originated. We must have the Earth versions of every religion.



How can a place that is perfect exist? Perfection to some extent is always in relation to some variable. These variables can be defined by opinions. Opinions can differ from person to person. So perfection in the form of a transcendental being or place would not have an intersection to a specific object.

Islam gives no gender to god. They address him as he/him because saying it, sounds disrespectful. There is also no picture him of him. Type in allah into google images and you only get the arabic writing of allah, no pictures of god.

OK, when you say a place that's perfect, I assume your referring to heaven. Well heaven is a place where you want something you get it and you have a feeling of being content. Sounds perfect to me.

 

[em2241992]

Based on every counter argument you are bringing, you are indirectly making the claim that Islam is the truth to religion. I fail to see how that is even remotely true, considering it has the same evidence as every other religion, nothing tangible other than a piece of writing that cannot be proven. Up until now, only scientific claims have been proven, and even some of those have not been proven. The Qur'an, the Bible and any other holy literature, may have some "answer," that explains our reason for living, and how we got here, but they hold no decisive evidence to prove it. Until then it is a subjective piece of evidence and provides no true answer.

 

[BobTheJoeBob]

So instead of replying to the argument at hand, you start blabbering about how religion is indefinitely wrong and using the Qur'an as a reference is wrong.

 

[em2241992]

Not exactly. I am putting holes in your arguement, showing that you cannot be certain on your claims. I am not saying that religion is wrong or that the Qur'an is wrong, I am saying that there is no solid evidence to back either of them up, therefore they have no real foundation for claims.

 

[BobTheJoeBob]

Not exactly. I am putting holes in your arguement, showing that you cannot be certain on your claims. I am not saying that religion is wrong or that the Qur'an is wrong, I am saying that there is no solid evidence to back either of them up, therefore they have no real foundation for claims.

You said that most religions idolise a god as a human figure I replied by saying the Qur'an does not do that.
You said, how can a perfect place exist? I showed you how it can exist. That has nothing to do with how reliable the Qur'an is. And thus, you put no holes in my argument.

 

[em2241992]

I never humanized God, I said God is an existence, referring to God as a "he" is just my way of doing so, for lack of a better choice of words. I never questioned a perfect place at all. I know it is remotely possible that a perfect place can exist, just as of right now it does not. I doubt the Qur'an since is has no real proof other than writing, which has to proof of the source.

 

[Magmorph]

A perfect place cannot exist because it is subjective. No two people have the same idea of perfect.

 

[Demonstryde]

we are just one ball of dust floating through an expanding vastness of emptiness. there are other planets harboring life.. this is most probable taking in the amount of galaxies in our universe(3,000 visible with old technologies) with roughly 100 billion individual stars surrounding those...what are the chances that just a few of those earth like planets orbiting just a few of those stars harbor some sort of intelligent life.. now lets say god made them all.. what is the probability that he is able to listen to everyone's needs.. for this fact religion seems greedy , like if someone were to say" i asked god and he told me blah blah blah.. ect." no its prob just you talking to yourself in your head or making your own decisions subconsciously .... God is a word for something we know absolutely nothing about.. we are so infinitely small that the probability that god created us is just as likely that we are growing inside of a quark particle inside of an atom growing on his fingernail and he created us but knows not of our complex problems as much as an ant realizes our existence.....nuff said.

To all religious peeps.. don't hate me for what i say.. as i can only speculate on the things i can observe, but who really knows?

here is what i like to think about..
the elements that make up your body and the surrounding environment all came for the hearts of exploding stars.... after eons they form into dna via your parents.. and make your brain which is able to look back to the expanding universe and acknowledge what it was before it was human...

 

[BobTheJoeBob]

A perfect place cannot exist because it is subjective. No two people have the same idea of perfect.
In heaven, as I said before, you get what you want, when you want. You can have anything in heaven. So yeah, heaven is a perfect place.


QUOTE(Demonstryde @ Sep 13 2010, 05:25 PM) we are just one ball of dust floating through an expanding vastness of emptiness. there are other planets harboring life.. this is most probable taking in the amount of galaxies in our universe(3,000 visible with old technologies) with roughly 100 billion individual stars surrounding those...what are the chances that just a few of those earth like planets orbiting just a few of those stars harbor some sort of intelligent life.. now lets say god made them all.. what is the probability that he is able to listen to everyone's needs.. for this fact religion seems greedy , like if someone were to say" i asked god and he told me blah blah blah.. ect." no its prob just you talking to yourself in your head or making your own decisions subconsciously .... God is a word for something we know absolutely nothing about.. we are so infinitely small that the probability that god created us is just as likely that we are growing inside of a quark particle inside of an atom growing on his fingernail and he created us but knows not of our complex problems as much as an ant realizes our existence.....nuff said.

To all religious peeps.. don't hate me for what i say.. as i can only speculate on the things i can observe, but who really knows?

here is what i like to think about..
the elements that make up your body and the surrounding environment all came for the hearts of exploding stars.... after eons they form into dna via your parents.. and make your brain which is able to look back to the expanding universe and acknowledge what it was before it was human...

Where did the exploding star come from? God is all knowing, he sees, and knows everything. Including all of our needs.

 

[mightymuffy]

We're either some old experiment long forgotten by a higher/alien species, or 'God' really exists..... but nobody can be sure of that....
Religion though.... if there really is a God I'm telling you now the Christians aren't the right ones. Or the Muslims, or any other religion imo...... 'God' has many different faces for the many different cultures, and to find a devout christian slagging off a devout muslim is ridiculous, and I'm sure he wouldn't condone burning 'misguided witchcraft' users at the stake, nor jumping into a room full of jews or christians with a bomb strapped round your waist. Religion is one of the biggest evils of this world make no mistake!

 

[Tanas]

A perfect place cannot exist because it is subjective. No two people have the same idea of perfect.
In heaven, as I said before, you get what you want, when you want. You can have anything in heaven. So yeah, heaven is a perfect place.


QUOTE(Demonstryde @ Sep 13 2010, 05:25 PM) we are just one ball of dust floating through an expanding vastness of emptiness. there are other planets harboring life.. this is most probable taking in the amount of galaxies in our universe(3,000 visible with old technologies) with roughly 100 billion individual stars surrounding those...what are the chances that just a few of those earth like planets orbiting just a few of those stars harbor some sort of intelligent life.. now lets say god made them all.. what is the probability that he is able to listen to everyone's needs.. for this fact religion seems greedy , like if someone were to say" i asked god and he told me blah blah blah.. ect." no its prob just you talking to yourself in your head or making your own decisions subconsciously .... God is a word for something we know absolutely nothing about.. we are so infinitely small that the probability that god created us is just as likely that we are growing inside of a quark particle inside of an atom growing on his fingernail and he created us but knows not of our complex problems as much as an ant realizes our existence.....nuff said.

To all religious peeps.. don't hate me for what i say.. as i can only speculate on the things i can observe, but who really knows?

here is what i like to think about..
the elements that make up your body and the surrounding environment all came for the hearts of exploding stars.... after eons they form into dna via your parents.. and make your brain which is able to look back to the expanding universe and acknowledge what it was before it was human...

Where did the exploding star come from? God is all knowing, he sees, and knows everything. Including all of our needs.

Where did your god come from? and if God is all knowing and he sees and knows everything including our needs, why does he just turn a blind eye to them all?

 

[BobTheJoeBob]

We're either some old experiment long forgotten by a higher/alien species, or 'God' really exists..... but nobody can be sure of that....
Religion though.... if there really is a God I'm telling you now the Christians aren't the right ones. Or the Muslims, or any other religion imo...... 'God' has many different faces for the many different cultures, and to find a devout christian slagging off a devout muslim is ridiculous, and I'm sure he wouldn't condone burning 'misguided witchcraft' users at the stake, nor jumping into a room full of jews or christians with a bomb strapped round your waist. Religion is one of the biggest evils of this world make no mistake!

Your one of those people who stereotype all muslims as terrosists, yeah, don't like people like you. Politicians are also one the biggest evils in this world, don't see anyone trying to get rid of them.

 

[NeSchn]

Oh boy, heres a controversial subject.

Yes, I believe there is some sort of higher power. Do I think we need to argue/debate about it? No, just believe what you want and move on with your life.

 

[Tanas]

@BobTheJoeBob, did my who made your god question frighten you because like a typical Christian you avoided answering the question.

You cant simply try and discredit the the big bang theory by asking a question like where did the exploding star come from that caused it , when you yourself like all other Christians cant or are unwilling to answer the question, where did your god come from, so I'll ask it again... Who made your god?

 

[Blood Fetish]

The Christian belief is that no one made "god", rather he has always existed. If you attempt to argue that something has to start at some point they will simply say that god can do whatever he wants.

 

[Zetta_x]

As I previously said, you can't disapprove from something unless you know a little about it. It's easier to just blindly approve something. Religion in general is so obtrusive in our everyday surroundings I don't know one person over the age of 18 who has not heard of a religion. Which makes them have this controversial debate whether to approve of it or disapprove of it. I argue that religion in general is so obtrusive to anyone's life because approving or disapproving religion causes so much unneeded stress and wasted resources.

 

[Deleted User]

Religion is why I quit porn.

 

[Law]

Religion is why I quit porn.

It doesn't look like it did a very good job, considering your other thread.