Hacking R4, Killing a DSL?

OzModChips

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Hey Guys,
Never heard this from a customer, but just got an email from a customer that bought 3 r4s , and 3 x 2gb Jap kingstons.
They said 1 R4 worked fine

The other, and i quote:

QUOTE said:
when I tried the 2nd chip in the 2nd NDS console it shut down the NDS
console completely and we cannot turn it on. This chip was done the same
way as the first so thinking maybe the console was the fault I tried this
chip in our third console and it, too, automatically shut down.Â

I wouldn't think this was possible, but 2 dead NDSL's is pretty convincing.
Has anyone had this happen to them?
wacko.gif
wacko.gif
wacko.gif
 

.::5pYd3r::.

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Thats impossible, unless they downloaded a dodgy loader that is actually that firmware bricker. Ask them where they got the loader from, what version it is and what happened exactly (e.g. First saw the health and warning screen then Loading.. in big writing then nothing)
 

OzModChips

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They said they did exactly the same as the first...which is working...so i doubt they got the DS_MENU.dat from anywhere else. R4 dont ship software CDs most of the time now, so they would have had to download it from somewhere

I will find out when they died.
 

thieves like us

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R4 dont ship software CDs most of the time now, so they would have had to download it from somewhere
?!? I've never not received a mini cd containing the software with my R4's (and I've ordered close to 20 of them over the past year now)

as long as they d/l'ed the software from the official site, they should have been ok. that is, if the R4's in question were legit and not some new form of copy (unlike the older ones which didn't even accept a micro SD chip)
 

azotyp

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QUOTE said:
2 dead NDSL's is pretty convincing.
maybe try to take off battery from ds lites and put them on, or try other batteries, I dont think that it could be possible to change ds firmware without short circuit in SL1 hole
smile.gif
, maybe bricking program is in rom memory that works only with battery energy supply. (pure theory).
 

Lacedolphin

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I possibly , may have an idea?? Did they make sure to do the "safely remove hardware" thing on the PC before removing the USB? If memory serves me correctly I think I've herd of a few people who did not and they either burnt the card or thier DS, but I can't rember which one. Is it possible if they forgot to, that they could've shorted out the card or corrupted the files?? Just an idea.
 
P

pasc

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Well, I heard replacing a blown fues (it's that safety contact if I'm not mistaken... correct me if I'm wrong) isn't that hard.

It should even be possilbe to solder a wire over, BUT its recommended to get a new fuse...
 

arctic_flame

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Well, I heard replacing a blown fues (it's that safety contact if I'm not mistaken... correct me if I'm wrong) isn't that hard.

It should even be possilbe to solder a wire over, BUT its recommended to get a new fuse...

It's easy to fix with a wire, but I'm not sure about finding replacement fuses.
 

Shelleeson

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i'd go for it being a rogue game my guess is he's pulling a fast one.
tell them you are sorry but once they put the games on you can't be held responsible for what happens to the ds's
yes i know this sounds really shitty but
1 how do you know they aren't trying to scrounge 2 ds's
2 how do you know it's not the files and you need to get them to tell you the source of the downloads and which files are different from the first ds that was ok.

tell them if the ds's are under guarantee they need to take the ds's back to the shop they got them from and get them swapped
smile.gif
 
P

pasc

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Or the Mr. Nice Guy Methode (which I would say, seems more customer friendly): Put a disclaimer on your webpage, replace those DS's and next time this happens just tell them to read the Disclaimer before asking such stuff.

OR:

(not sure about that, don't hit me):
say them to contact the manufacturer of the R4's. Perhaps they can get a refund from there ? (Ok... this is just stupid forget that one...)
 

Maikel Steneker

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coolbho3000

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QUOTE said:
2 dead NDSL's is pretty convincing.
I dont think that it could be possible to change ds firmware without short circuit in SL1 hole
smile.gif



It is possible.
Yeah. Well, not the whole firmware, but the most part. Otherwise, how would you be able to store settings on your DS?
He said it wouldn't be able to "change firmware," he didn't specify how much. Unless you've flashed your DS, the amount not protected by SL1 is enough to kill your DS.
 

arsehat

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I wouldn't think this was possible, but 2 dead NDSL's is pretty convincing.
Has anyone had this happen to them?
wacko.gif
 
wacko.gif
 
wacko.gif

I've never had it happen, but I'd be asking for them to send the two R4's they haven't used back for inspection - with the "killer" one clearly marked. I doubt there'd be an issue with the third cart, but it's better to play it safe.

On a DS cartridge, fingers 1, 7 and 17 are GND. 8 is VCC. 1, 8 and 17 extend further towards the edge than the others, or at least they do on original carts and every flashcart I've seen (so far - R4, DSTT, M3Real, EZ-V) - this is so the ground and supply connections are the made before the signal ones when the cartridge is inserted, and is a feature that any flashcart designer would probably be wise to copy.

FWIW, I suspect that there might be a short between VCC (pin 8) and GND on the board (e.g. a solder bridge across a surface mount cap) or a short inside one of the components. Alternatively, and especially if it's a new R4 without the guides/dividers, there may be a manufacturing issue that's resulted in the board being mis-aligned - and the contact for either 7 or 8 might be shorting the fingers for 7 (GND) and 8 (VCC) by contacting both. The rest of the lines are signal lines of various sorts - I doubt that a short between any of them and either VCC or GND would result in enough current to fry a fuse, but it might be possible.

In the interests of customer relations, you might end up having to get them to ship you the dead DS's for inspection; hopefully you've got some contacts who could replace the fuses (note: REPLACE, rather than just bridge - RS Components ought to be able to help with surface mount fuses, but they might not be cheap and there may be a minimum order quantity) and maybe try a known-good cart and the killer one on one of them before it's closed back up - that way, you might be able to identify for sure whether the flashcart killed them or whether the customer is trying one on. Plus, you might actually be legally liable for any consequential damages caused by a product you've sold - and even if you're not, postage both ways and some repair costs are almost certainly going to be cheaper than any loss-of-goodwill associated with hanging the customer out to dry if your product really was defective.

You might also be able to test the killer cartridge with a fused 3.3V supply - anything that would blow the internal fuses in a DS should almost certainly be able to blow a 125mA fuse, whereas I wouldn't expect a good cartridge to draw very much at all. That might eliminate the need to try the suspected killer in a DS at all - if it makes the magic smoke leak out of fuses, and good R4s don't, then you've found the cause. Mis-alignment won't be picked up by this, but a close visual inspection of the killer and a known-good cart ought to indicate if this is a possible cause.

That said, the customer could be trying one on. A friend-of-a-friend knows a lady who bragged about buying a new pink DS Lite just before Christmas, putting a fifteen-month-old pink DS Lite back in the box, taking that back to a major chain store (with the receipt) and saying "I got a used one in the box" during the post-christmas refund/exchange confusion - the customer service desk staff didn't bat an eyelid, knowing that some of the other shopmonkeys don't check returned goods properly before putting them back into stock, and called the appropriate area to bring a new one up the front for an exchange. I used to work in retail myself, so I know full well of the kind of things that some customers will try and the kind of lazy aresholes who sometimes end up working behind the counter - and how damn hard it can be to disprove a well-thought-out and plausible scam like that.

Good luck, and may you get to the bottom of the matter - whatever it is.

(and as an aside, have you got any good prices on GC modchips, and replacement top housings for full-sized discs?
smile.gif
)


(edit: changed from 1,7,17 as long fingers to 1,8,17 - GND,VCC,GND make contact before the signal lines)
 

OzModChips

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I have no GC mods
smile.gif



I just got an email back
I mean 1 card killing 2 DSs might be believable. But 2 different cards killing 2 different DSs? It can't be.
I have sold so many damn R4s, thousands and thousands, and no one has ever emailed me about a blown DS usng an r4.....or any other DS cart.

Ohh and our terms and conditions, that customers must agree to before buying states that you use the goods at your own risk, even if it directly causes harm to your console. But I will be helping the customer out of course.

here is the email.

QUOTE said:
Hi ****
Thanks for ur quick response.
Sorry it's taken a while to get back to you but I've been at work. We downloaded the games from *****.com the site that heaps of other people use and recommend and with no probs - same files infact.

The DS was off, then we put in the chip (proper way) then flicked the power on and it immediately shut down the console and all the power died. We cannot even turn it on now. The DS were fully charged and operational B4. Unfortunately this also happened to our third DS - with this 2nd chip. The third chip has the loaded files but wasn't inserted into the DS so we don't even know if this is a faulty one either.

Waiting on your reply at your earliest convience.
 

Little

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I think they are trying to screw you over. People are likely that, they will try to rip off any organisation.

2 Faulty R4's destroying 2 DS's, how unlucky must this person be to get the only 2 DS killing R4s ever known. If they aren't lying, and it did happen, then it was their fault and they did something wrong.

I doubt they even have 2 DS's.
Don't give them anything.


On another note, a guy once came to where I work, and having bought a 360 the day before started screaming and shouting that it was faulty and didnt work.

So it was taken out back to give it a quick test and swap it for a new one. The guy had only bought in the unit itself, no cables. So we use the cables from a faulty machine that we had already swapped over (so the cables were brand new, machine was a return), we go to use those cables and the power cable doesn't fit.... since MS had changed the power cables a few months before. So we check the serial number, and its a like a 13 month old machine. Dude was trying to swindle us. All we could do we say yeah this isnt the machine we sold you. He played dumb and was like oh i musta picked up the wrong one. He never did come back into the store...
 

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