PS1/2 PS2 ISO 50-60Hz signal question

Blaze163

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Lali ho!

I've finally retrieved my PS2 and got myself a new TV with which to use it, but I've hit a snag. My PS2 Slim is softmodded with FreeMCBoot, and as such I've got a rather large collection of burned disks. They're all working, but my TV seems incapable of displaying a 60HZ signal properly. As a result, any games that use the 60HZ signal are in black and white. Regretably, as US ISO's are much easier to acquire than their PAL counterparts when it comes to downloading games, the greater majority of the burned disks are American, therefore they all run at 60HZ, and are therefore suddenly colourless. Out of 40-odd games in my folder, only SIX of them are in PAL format and working perfectly. Frowny face.

So, what I want to know is this. Is it possible to in any way alter my setup so the US games will display in 50HZ and regain their colours? Other than replacing my television, of course. I don't have a stable enough internet connection to be downloading any new game files, which is regretable as the obvious solution would be to replace the US ISO's with PAL ones, but that's not an option. Is there perhaps some sort of program that can force US games to display in 50HZ or something?
 

Clarky

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how is the tv connected to the ps2? i remember using a scart cable would get around the colour issue. still i do believe there was a program around which could convert iso images from ntsc to pal, google may help in that reguard
 

Blaze163

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It's connected through the red, white and yellow cables, which have been put into a 3-pin to SCART adapter and placed in the SCART socket on the back on my TV. So in short, connected via SCART.
 

xist

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Definitely the cable. Get an RGB Scart rather than a cheap as chips one (or woe betide, the RCA leads) and problem solved.
 

Blaze163

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It's the standard PS2 3-pin cable, the only bit I added was the 3-Pin to SCART adapter 'cause my TV doesnt have the 3-pin sockets. But surely if the cable was faulty they'd all display in black and white, right? All my official games work fine.
 

xist

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You're using Composite cables with a scart adapter block which is why you have problems with NTSC games. All PAL games will be fine, it's just the NTSC ones you have in black and white, irrespective of whether you downloaded or bought them. You need an RGB scart cable to fix this easily....probably cost under £5 on ebay.
 

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The thing is that I used those composite cables with my old TV and everything worked fine. So I need to either use the composite cables alone (not possible, my new TV doesn't have the sockets for them) or buy a better cable?
 

xist

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Composite cables will always end up causing your out of region games to be black and white....it's not the block that's doing it, it's the cable. Composite is the worst type of cable to use in fact.

Ideally you'd go component, but if that's not possible you want an RGB scart.
 

Blaze163

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So I need a new cable that doesn't use those 3 pins, just a standard SCART connection? That'll fix it? Also, why did my games work fine before when using the 3 pins alone without the block on my old TV?
 

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In reality all you need to do rather than buying new cables is to patch your NTSC game so that it will use PAL colors. Here's a full guide on how to do this including a link for the necessary software. I had the same problem as you on one of my very old TVs and patching fixed it for every game I tried.

Moving on, I think it would be good to clear a couple of things up.

They're all working, but my TV seems incapable of displaying a 60HZ signal properly. As a result, any games that use the 60HZ signal are in black and white.
The black and white issue is actually not related to NTSC games playing at 60Hz, rather that NTSC uses different (inferior) colors. The fact that you got any proper (although colorless) picture at all means your TV is capable of displaying a 60Hz signal just as any other TV that isn't older than ~30 years. This might seem like nitpicking, but it means that you won't have to play games that can be played in 60Hz in 50Hz.

Composite cables will always end up causing your out of region games to be black and white....
I'm not saying composite cables are good, but what you said here is simply false. I have played a lot of NTSC Smash Bros for N64 and GC on very many different TVs and it works fine with no color issues on TVs not older than 10-15 years or so, (on TVs like the very old one I have that I mentioned at the start of this post the black and white issue is however of course there, whereas PAL 60Hz Melee etc works fine).
 

emmanu888

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it can be different with many ps2 like my ancient fat one was connected on a lcd tv with rca cables and pal games were playing but in this case we are talking about a pal ps2 i would try a real scart cable

i don't know too much since i don't have pal consoles or even a pal tv
 

xist

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Composite cables will always end up causing your out of region games to be black and white....
I'm not saying composite cables are good, but what you said here is simply false. I have played a lot of NTSC Smash Bros for N64 and GC on very many different TVs and it works fine with no color issues on TVs not older than 10-15 years or so,

Blaze already has his games burned and patched so he's not in a position to patch them for region differences.

I'd beg to differ about my statement being "simply false". It may be "literally false" as i've not played every NTSC game over a composite cable on a PAL TV, but it's not a facet of the TV's age that's causing the image to be black and white in this case, it's that the composite cable isn't carrying the NTSC colour signal to the TV. I had this very same problem (not composite issues but poor quality scart) years ago when i was importing PSX games....most people in Europe have had TV's which have coped with the NTSC standard for years, it's just the cables that cause issues.

One quick google of something like 'composite cable black and white ntsc pal' will illustrate how common this issue is, and how to solve it...by getting an RGB cable.
 

Clarky

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http://www.amazon.co.uk/RGB-cable-pro-audio-out-PS1/dp/B000PIB8GM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333311901&sr=8-2

thats the scart you should be looking for
 

Armadillo

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Composite cables will always end up causing your out of region games to be black and white....
I'm not saying composite cables are good, but what you said here is simply false. I have played a lot of NTSC Smash Bros for N64 and GC on very many different TVs and it works fine with no color issues on TVs not older than 10-15 years or so,

Blaze already has his games burned and patched so he's not in a position to patch them for region differences.

I'd beg to differ about my statement being "simply false". It may be "literally false" as i've not played every NTSC game over a composite cable on a PAL TV, but it's not a facet of the TV's age that's causing the image to be black and white in this case, it's that the composite cable isn't carrying the NTSC colour signal to the TV. I had this very same problem (not composite issues but poor quality scart) years ago when i was importing PSX games....most people in Europe have had TV's which have coped with the NTSC standard for years, it's just the cables that cause issues.

One quick google of something like 'composite cable black and white ntsc pal' will illustrate how common this issue is, and how to solve it...by getting an RGB cable.

You don't have to try all the games. Composite can carry an ntsc signal fine, if it's black and white the tv can't handle the ntsc colour encoding. RGB cable fixes it, as it's no longer the colours being encoded into a ntsc signal and instead are just the rgb values. Same reason RGB is so much better quality as well, as all the signals aren't being mixed and sent down one pin. My old crt gives colour over composite on ntsc fine, but it has full ntsc support.

Black and white, but stable picture= Supports 60HZ, but not ntsc. RGB cable corrects the problem.
Colour over any cable= Supports ntsc.

Also if it was the composite signal being incapable of sending an ntsc signal, rather than people mistaking 60Hz support for ntsc support, you'd simply get no picture, as it's a single signal. If it's incapable of sending it, you get nothing.

For some reason people seem to assume 60Hz=NTSC, when a lot of pal tvs support 60Hz to accommodate the pal-60 standard.
 

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I'd beg to differ about my statement being "simply false". It may be "literally false" as i've not played every NTSC game over a composite cable on a PAL TV, but it's not a facet of the TV's age that's causing the image to be black and white in this case, it's that the composite cable isn't carrying the NTSC colour signal to the TV.
Your statement is simply false because composite cables do not always cause out of region to be black and white as you claimed. I played non-patched NTSC Disgaea on my PS2 earlier today on my modern PAL TV with no color issues. However, using the exact same composite cables the color becomes B/W on my old TV. Since the exact same composite cables can be used without issues with new TVs but not with old TVs your claim that the TVs age (well, more precisely its specs, age is just a rough but handy measure) is irrelevant and everything that matters is the cable is a logical fallacy.

Regardless, you might be right that just buying an RGB is the best solution for Blaze. Personally I just reburned my NTSC games with discs I had on hand when I wanted to play them on my old TV, but I only had a few games at that point. Another option to also consider would be buying a network adapter and plugging in an IDE harddrive. Getting around the color issue by patching the isos to put on the HDD shouldn't be the main reason for doing that, but a nice bonus added to the others (no laser tearing, no having to physically store all games somewhere, no having to switch games and much faster loading times).
 

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I'd beg to differ about my statement being "simply false". It may be "literally false" as i've not played every NTSC game over a composite cable on a PAL TV, but it's not a facet of the TV's age that's causing the image to be black and white in this case, it's that the composite cable isn't carrying the NTSC colour signal to the TV.
Your statement is simply false because composite cables do not always cause out of region to be black and white as you claimed. I played non-patched NTSC Disgaea on my PS2 earlier today on my modern PAL TV with no color issues. However, using the exact same composite cables the color becomes B/W on my old TV. Since the exact same composite cables can be used without issues with new TVs but not with old TVs your claim that the TVs age (well, more precisely its specs, age is just a rough but handy measure) is irrelevant and everything that matters is the cable is a logical fallacy.

Regardless, you might be right that just buying an RGB is the best solution for Blaze. Personally I just reburned my NTSC games with discs I had on hand when I wanted to play them on my old TV, but I only had a few games at that point. Another option to also consider would be buying a network adapter and plugging in an IDE harddrive. Getting around the color issue by patching the isos to put on the HDD shouldn't be the main reason for doing that, but a nice bonus added to the others (no laser tearing, no having to physically store all games somewhere, no having to switch games and much faster loading times).


OP stated that he's got a Slim. But I do agree with you, if you happen to have a Phat, getting a network adapter + hdd is a great idea for so many reasons :)

Since a year or two back, there are china knockoffs of those network adapters too, so you don't have to go out of your way to get hold of a genuine one. I'm using one of those in one of my PS2:s, and it works just as good as the real thing for HDD loading. For some reason it's got no network port though, however, there are solder pads for one on the PCB, so chances are it's just a question of adding one if you get tired of having to move the HDD between PS2 and computer to add new games.
 

Blaze163

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http://www.amazon.co...33311901&sr=8-2

thats the scart you should be looking for

Ordered! Thank you muchly. Went all the way through Coventry looking for that damned cable, and there's not a single one anywhere in the entire city. The closest thing was Gamestation (what's left of it anyway...) offering the exact same cable I already have, for a rather stupid £5. That beauty is winging its way to me right now. I'll let you know if it fixes the problem. I sure hope so. 40-odd burned games like Shadow of the Collosus, Resident Evil 4, Okami, Marvel VS Capcom 2, all the greats, and only six of them work.

Thankfully on a trip to Birmingham I was fortunate to find a shiny new copy of Final Fantasy IX, boxed, manual, mint condition, £20. Bargain. Completes my set too. Should keep me amused until the cable arrives.
 

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PS2 is different than most other consoles (including even PS1). Unless modified or forced otherwise, all PS2s apply PAL color to all 50hz output, and NTSC color to all 60hz output. Regardless of the console's or game's region.
That's right. Buying a PS1 actually would fix part of your problem. Except it won't play PS2 games. PAL PS1 forces NTSC games into "PAL60" since 50/60hz doesn't affect color carrier on PS1 hardware. (similarly if I ran my import boot disc to load a PAL game on my US PS1, I'd get a useless NTSC50 signal...)

A possibility is you received a composite SCART cable, instead of RGB SCART. One of those Amazon reviewers does claim they got that wrong cable.
Check picture quality. Composite will have more noticable fuzziness/noise than the rich sharpness of RGB.
 

Blaze163

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It's the right cable, but I have confirmed by other means that it's my TV that's the issue. Outrun 2006 Coast to Coast gives the option to select 50 or 60Hz. It plays fine in 50, goes black and white in 60Hz. As I know everything was working fine with my old TV, logic dictates the new tv must be the faultly part as it is the only variable to have changed. Thankfully I have been able to arrange for my old TV to be delivered from storage, thus totally bypassing the issue. Come Saturday evening I'll be back on Kingdom HEarts 2 as scheduled.
 

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