NNID eshop question

[leejaclane]

If your games were legitimately purchased, and you're able to disconnect that NNID account from that Wii U (any method, let's say, but on a homebrewed console), what happens with those eshop games? On Tiramisu or Aroma, with sigpatches, of course. Without any cfw or homebrew, I believe you'd get a message when trying to launch installed games that the account associated with them is no longer on the console and be prompted to delete the game. Would that still happen with sigpatches, or not?

I assume it wouldn't but I was just curious.

 

[V10lator]

Would that still happen with sigpatches, or not?

IIRC yes, it still happens (maybe it's another error message but the games refuse to launch). That's because there are two types of tickets: One attached to the NNID and one not attached to the NNID or the console at all. The first one is what an eShop purchase gives you and the second one is what's used on physical discs.
Also the second one is what we create as fake tickets and what the sigpatches are for.

Then again: IIRC, so I might remember wrongly.

//EDIT: Granted this NNID check might be able to get patched away, so new sigpatches could change this. To my knowledge nobody is working on sigpatches anymore through (the ones skilled enough either left the scene or are anti-piracy). The "new" sigpatches popping up from time to time are just different ways of applying the same old patchset.

 

[leejaclane]

That's very interesting. I knew about the disc tickets being different from eshop tickets, but I didn't know what kind of tickets fake tickets were or the exact nature of the sigpatches -- just that it was needed for the fake tickets.

I want to say I read that doing disc2app allows you to play installed backups of your physical games without needing sigpatches for that, even being able to play without custom firmware running -- is that correct?

Are these real disc tickets unique to each game, or to each disc even? Also, and I think the answer to this must be no, but is it possible to use a real disc ticket for other things? For example, could you extract a disc ticket from one game, and then reuse it for other installables, or would trying to use a disc ticket for a different game ID detect it as invalid? You can probably tell I don't know much about tickets, but it's all very interesting to me, even if I don't have any practical use for this information (well, except for the question at the start of the thread and knowing that if I disconnect the NNID then the games are forfeit without cfw -- not that I'd be likely to stop using cfw on the Wii U, or that there's much reason to delete your own NNID).

I guess a better follow-up to the initial post though is, if you deleted the NNID, could you use NUSspli to create fake tickets for those installed games and play them right away, or would you need to use a ticket cleaner first, or even delete them and redownload them through NUSspli? I think I know the answer this time, but I'd just be making assumptions again.

 

[V10lator]

I want to say I read that doing disc2app allows you to play installed backups of your physical games without needing sigpatches for that, even being able to play without custom firmware running -- is that correct?

Should be correct, yes. But WUDD is the new disc dumper with active maintainance, so better use that.

Are these real disc tickets unique to each game, or to each disc even?

To the game (they contain the title ID. If you change the title ID the signature doesn't match anymore, so you need sigpatches again).

if you deleted the NNID, could you use NUSspli to create fake tickets for those installed games and play them right away, or would you need to use a ticket cleaner first, or even delete them and redownload them through NUSspli?

Good question. The Wii U saves all tickets, even for the same title, and uses the first one found (which normally means the first one which was ever installed on the console). That's why the free DLC trick works in the first place.
But this also means if you reinstall a game it will still use the old ticket (except when you do it with NUSspli: NUSspli does delete the ticket while uninstalling).
NUSspli can create fake tickets only but it won't exchange them in the ticket bin of your Wii U. For this you have to reinstall the title (again: With NUSspli. A normal uninstall won't delete the ticket but NUSsplis uninstaller will... Or exchange the ticket by hand but that has a brick risk, think about accidentially corrupting the ticket of the Wii U menu or something just because both tickets where at the same file. Yes, the Wii U combines multiple tickets into single files).

//EDIT: As a side note: When you try to install a title with NUSspli but that title is installed already it will uninstall before reinstalling. Originally this had been added to make Channel updates a no brainer (WUP Installer corrupts them when you don't uninstall manually before) but now I see it helps with ticket exchanging, too.

//EDIT²: Yes, NUSspli has a lot of hidden features most people won't notice until they need them.

//EDIT³: I said the ticket contains the title ID before but forgot that it also contains the decryption key for the .app files. This key itself is derived from the title ID, so you would have to change that one, too, or the Wii U won't be able to decrypt and as a result see the .app files as corrupted.

 

[leejaclane]

But this also means if you reinstall a game it will still use the old ticket (except when you do it with NUSspli: NUSspli does delete the ticket while uninstalling).

Oh. Hm. Does that apply to genuine eshop tickets as well when uninstalling a game through NUSspli? I think I uninstalled games I bought on the eshop via NUSspli a few times. That's kind of too bad if their tickets are gone, though I'd assume the purchases would be tied to the account on Nintendo's servers and I'd still be able to redownload them from the eshop. I mostly don't bother with the eshop any more though, since setting up cfw I've been worried that somehow loading the eshop would get me in trouble -- it's very silly, I know. But if I download with NUSspli after deleting with NUSspli, the real ticket is gone from the console, and if I then uninstall via the settings and download from the eshop, I'll (probably) get the real ticket back, but the fake ticket will still be there, and it might be the one being read. That seems like such a mess, I can see why ticket cleaner exists.

Granted, Nintendo never wanted anyone using fake tickets, but it still sounds like a messy way to do things, combining tickets for different games into a single file. If it was just DLC, that I could understand at least, even if it's still a bit silly to do it.

So, since fake tickets are disc-style tickets, does that mean playing online using fake tickets is not detectable as playing on an illegitimate copy on Nintendo's servers? Or would it be a good idea to do ticket cleaner in that scenario and redownload the game from the eshop, or else use a physical copy (or WUDD backup)? Do the online games check tickets at all? Obviously the question of checking for a matching NNID on the console is irrelevant since there is none for disc-based games and that's the type of ticket used by the fake tickets.

Also, I've heard about the free DLC trick once or twice, but I don't know much about it. I assume it's not that useful any more with the demise of the eshop, and well, with NUSspli you don't really need much else. But I love learning about this stuff, so as long as you feel like it, I'd love to hear more about that too.

 

[V10lator]

Does that apply to genuine eshop tickets as well when uninstalling a game through NUSspli?

Yes.

I'd assume the purchases would be tied to the account on Nintendo's servers and I'd still be able to redownload them from the eshop.

Exactly. When you open the eShop it will redownload all missing tickets (silently in the background), even if you don't redownload the games.

if I download with NUSspli after deleting with NUSspli, the real ticket is gone from the console, and if I then uninstall via the settings and download from the eshop, I'll (probably) get the real ticket back, but the fake ticket will still be there, and it might be the one being read.

Yes. Either uninstall the fake ticket containing title with NUSspli or use Ticket Cleaner before redownloading from eShop.

That seems like such a mess

I fully agree.

So, since fake tickets are disc-style tickets, does that mean playing online using fake tickets is not detectable as playing on an illegitimate copy on Nintendo's servers?

Do the online games check tickets at all?

Online play with fake tickets is completely save*. There is nothing checking your tickets on the online servers.

Obviously the question of checking for a matching NNID on the console is irrelevant since there is none for disc-based games

No matter what kind of ticket: The NNID used will be the one linked to your console, that's more or less all the info your console sends to the servers. Nintendo did a very bad job here but they learned from it, just look at the security of the Switch.

Also, I've heard about the free DLC trick once or twice, but I don't know much about it. I assume it's not that useful any more with the demise of the eshop, and well, with NUSspli you don't really need much else.

With sigpatches nobody need that trick. https://gbatemp.net/threads/hex-editing-unlocking-dlc-without-cfw-or-sigpatch.469698/ has some informations but DLC tickets are a bit different than normal tickets. Would need to look into that again but IIRC a fake DLC ticket contains a section which says this ticket is for all DLC which exists for the game, for example. Legit DLC tickets ofc. don't do this but IIRC all DLC of the same title has the same title ID, so all the DLC tickets have the same title ID, too. Nintendo now checks the first DLC ticket of that title ID for validity and at the rest it just looks what content to unlock.

*) They don't even check if the title you play had been purchased with your NNID before. Granted they can't do it for games which had disc releases, too, but they don't even do it for eShop only releases.