Hacking [MMM] Multi-Mod Manager (a collection of tools)

[jskyboo]

@Arikado
Yeah I know that quote limit kinda sucks I hit it too. Kinda hard to respond to everything when the forum won't let you quote too much but lets try again.

you and wiimu are using deprecated versions of our software and turning it into a piracy tool. Furthermore, as I have proven in previous posts, there is no real advantage of this besides the piracy shit which is retarded.[...]Interesting. But if you'll read the changelog http://wiibrew.org/wiki/DOP-Mii#Changelog DOP-Mii v12 blows DOP-IOS MOD out of the water. And we've only got tons of more great stuff you won't have on the way.Stop saying our versions used deprecated source. Yes my latest release now isn't up to date, but every release I have made has been. And the reason it isn't now is because your team finally got around to releasing v12 about 16 days after my last release and until then kept it closed source. I have every intention of rolling my changes into a new version of the project but I have been too busy as of late, if wiiwu gets to it first then great! As for the stuff that your team is adding that mine won't have, yeah if you haven't noticed I choose to work on the additions you WON'T make, not be redundant and try to make all the same changes as you are planning. If you already are going to write the new features, why should I? I can just look at the source and roll in the feature once you release it.
You keep saying you have proven that wad manager is only used for piracy, but really we have proven on many occasions that is not true. To prove your point you would need to show that each and every wad made is illegal and used for piracy. We on the other hand only need to show one instance of a wad that is not illegal and not in any way used for privacy. Since many people have named legal wads your proof is false.

Furthermore, none of the bugs in signcheck are present in our software. And what the hell do you mean "one which caused a lot of bricks at first"? What the hell did you do to signcheck that it was bricking people? You shouldn't be able to brick a Wii just by reading the NAND.You should read my post more carefully, I didn't say I added something that caused bricks I said you and your team did. Although the new Dop-Mii Changelog mysteriously doesn't have any records of this anymore a simple search of this site will show that somewhere around v11 a major change was made to signcheck that caused many bricks by changing the ios. I agree, bricking a wii simply by checking the NAND is silly, but I didn't do it. I don't know why your team tried to reinvent the check function, the one you replaced checked that stat just fine and the new one caused bricks, seemed to have no advantage and now is no longer in the source. I imagine one of the benefits you saw in changing the name of the project was erasing this history but it still happened and threads on this site are proof of that.
You on many occasions have said that my app and by association wiiwu's app have caused bricks to try to deter others from using it. For the record I have never had even a single report of someone bricking their wii with my program. Although it is now quite simple to do if you don't know what you are doing with the program such as deleting a system menu ios, the program to my knowledge has never caused a brick from correct use. While I can't make a program idiot proof I can try to remove brick causing bugs and in fact the closest to a brick that I know of nearly happened to my wii while testing an unreleased wip. But I fixed that bug long before releasing that version.
I never said adding in normal installation of wads was difficult only pointing out that you said you had functions that we did not and that statement was false. Also while I cannot look at your history in that fine of detail I may have added that function even before your team did when I made it possible to install and patch ios 58. So stop saying your program is always adding functions ours will never have.

A) I don't host it and B) More good than bad comes from doing so (the iphone/ipod touch devs also do this which inspired this development). Illegally distributing a virgin IOS is not nearly as bad as pirating wiiware or vc.

Ok maybe YOU do not host it but your team or someone for your team does. Still illegal. I agree it is useful and someone probably needed to do it eventually but that doesn't mean its not illegal and I would like it if NUS was still an option because why should a random person trust a file from a server they don't know they can trust. Most wads are not allowed on this site not because they might be pirated wiiware but because they contain nintendo's property specifically those IOSs that your team is now hosting. And as has been said many times before wad manager is not only for installing piracy, stop telling that lie.
QUOTE

I get that this is open source and I get that you can do whatever the hell you want. If I didn't want people to work on the program and do stuff to it like this and make unnofficial releases I would make the project closed source[...]For the last time: You are denying people of many, many features present in DOP-Mii by simply adding WAD Manager to your project. Why? I have no idea (other than that you're completely retarded of course).

No, you made the project open source because it was open source when you starting modding it. If you wanted to put it on wiibrew and post it here you knew you couldn't make it closed source or take quite a lot of heat for it. Every time you try to flame a derivative work of the project you make it seem like you don't want anyone else to work on the program. No one is denying people features, if anyone is you are! We are adding features and if our latest release is from before your latest then yeah they won't have those new changes, but that doesn't mean the new changes cannot be added and if people want some of the features of your app before they have been ported elsewhere they can use your app we aren't stopping them. You on the other hand are trying to stop anyone from using an app other than your own, apps that have features yours does not have and features you say you will not add. You are denying people features not wiiwu and me. Adding a function many people are asking for and like using is not retarded, in fact all the support this program has gained would show that in fact many think it is NOT a retarded idea.

 

[XFlak]

just out of curiosity, is there anything this app can do that cannot be done using dop-mii and/or "yet another wad manager mod"

if not... I really don't see the point to this mod... it will never have all the functionality of the most recent release of either app... so why bother combining their outdated features? This is just my opinion, and I don't expect any1 to give up their project based on that... but seriously, does this app do anything original?

Loads of respect to the authors of Dop-Mii, MMM and wad manager+mods... i couldn't do half the stuff u guys can do, so plz don't take my criticism the wrong way.

edit: also, if there are in fact original features to MMM, my opinion of MMM will change for the better... don't get me wrong, i like the idea of a wii hacking swiss army knife (as jskyboo's mod was first la belled)... but until apps like DOP-Mii are finalized (ie. app is perfect and is no longer being worked on... which i doubt will ever happen) I personally will prefer using multiple apps as opposed to the swiss army knife method. The idea of having too much going on in one app just seems like it has a lot of bug potential... and I'd rather not be a guinea pig if there are less "complex" alternatives... of course, if its proven stable and adds original features that are useful... I could eventually be swayed to use MMM instead of dop-mii and/or YAWMM

 

[tj_cool]

just out of curiosity, is there anything this app can do that cannot be done using dop-mii and/or "yet another wad manager mod"
The only thing I see is:

• App launcher, launch most homebrew apps from SD

But there could be more stuff (also, we already have HBC for that)


QUOTE(xflak40 @ Mar 8 2010, 04:48 PM)

Also, if there are in fact original features to MMM, my opinion of MMM will change for the better... don't get me wrong, i like the idea of a wii hacking swiss army knife (as jskyboo's mod was first la belled)... but until apps like DOP-Mii are finalized (ie. app is perfect and is no longer being worked on... which i doubt will ever happen) I personally will prefer using multiple apps as opposed to the swiss army knife method. The idea of having too much going on in one app just seems like it has a lot of bug potential... and I'd rather not be a guinea pig if there are less "complex" alternatives... of course, if its proven stable and adds original features that are useful... I could eventually be swayed to use MMM instead of dop-mii and/or YAWMM

I agree
I like to have multiple Apps that work than one app that does it all, but only half as good (I'm not saying MMM is like that)
Even if it's just to know what part fails when you do some stuff
And it's also easier to update those parts (since you don't need to change the one app each time for small changes).

DOP-Mii is quite perfect for this: Much of features you can use, but not exaggerated.
I have nothing against MMM or anything, that's just my opinion.

Also: You don't even need Wad manager functions most of the time if you already have DOP-Mii
The only thing I use wad manager for is to install Forwarder channels for homebrew

 

[pepxl]

i personally like the layout and feel of MMM if Dop - Mii was like this then i would be chuffed but all in all both apps are great in their own way to different users

dont get me wrong here im not disputing anything about what app fails compared to the other because i have to skills in making such apps like this

 

[Myke]

thanks Wiiwu this app is awesome.

Arikado needs to stop whining. If you guys didn't want something like this to happen, you shouldn't have open sourced it.

you could keep throwing all sorts of technical lingo to us, you still look like a butthurt little baby doing it. I don't care if you are part of the team that created dop-mii. Because of your behavior it really makes me not want to even try your software, no matter how good you claim it to be.

 

[Wiiwu]

Glad it has been good for you.

Its quite useful to integrate multiple tools together and for MMM you'll find that its WAD manager is very stable and easy to use. There is no flashy graphics wasting valuable screen space, the whole screen is used to give detail feedback on whats its doing, this helps to reduce user mistakes. Batch operations users will see its obvious benefit.

Like I said, give it a try and you may find it becoming your everyday swiss knife.

 

[XFlak]

wiiwu, as a request, can u incorporate YAWMM's changes to ur wad manager? U may want to wait until cwstdenobs is finished making his next round of changes... but he's added a lot of useful features to the wad manager, including brick protection in the form of restricting the uninstallation of SM, SM IOS, etc.

cwstdenobs's changes are great, and I think noobs should only use a wad manager with this level of brick protection. I just had a lot of PMs going back and forth with some1 on this forum claiming a faulty CIOS installation bricked him, after speaking with me (I told him a faulty cios install can't cause bricks), he managed to find out it was his son screwing with a wad manager that bricked him. If he had YAWMM, his son wouldn't have been able to screw with vital files and his wii would be fine right now

@wiiwu, seriously, I support all wii developers, even if I don't use their apps... so even though I am going to stick to dop-mii and YAWMM for now, I still encourage you to keep working on this app because it has potential (but maybe u should consider giving credit where credit is due, and make sure people know that alternatives are available for your app and that those alternatives may have been updated more recently than MMM)

thx for all ur hard work

 

[Daco]

yade yade yade yade yade

you fail

if you can't tell the difference between an old version and an upgraded version by the same ppl just under a different name then you fail and should shoot yourself just like that 3 year old girl

EDIT: btw, dop-mii IS > dop-ios mod
if you disagree you dont know jack shit about the wii (but then again, 99,99999% of the readers doesn't so who cares?)
i have been working with lunatik on several points. i even busted my ass off to make priiloader compatible with all system menu versions (at least US and EU versions, in theory the others should work as well, but is unknown) because of his work on the downgrade. ive read what wanker has done in his downgrader and its uber fail (just like all off his software ive seen so far)

whats next, preloader 0.1 > priiloader 0.3b?

 

[OArikadoO]

I'll provide a more detailed response later but I have real life stuff getting in the way atm.

My argument is this:
If you're going to use MMM for anything other than the WAD Manager addition, you should be using DOP-Mii. This is because my team and I wrote nearly everything else that's in MMM (the the IOS stuff, the channel stuff, and the system menu stuff, and the install a fakesigning IOS if you dont have one stuff) so since we've significantly added to and improved our base work. This makes these features in MMM inferior. Again; we wrote it, and we improved it. The stuff that was added to MMM not by us (signcheck and priiloader stuff) was added into DOP-Mii by us. LemonMan who wrote signcheck prefers what we wrote (syscheck) over his own program. And we worked closely with Daco to achieve better priiloader support (ie, when you install a system menu you can install priiloader into it if you wish - it's incorporated into the system menu stuff, not a separate function). Lastly, bugs which plagued our Dop-IOS MOD that this is based upon are present within MMM. Thus, you have the IQ of a rock if you seriously prefer to trust MMM with anything besides WAD Manager (regarding WAD Manager, better versions of it exist but I'm sure you won't see MMM updated anytime soon).

My point of posting here is not to whine and complain (I made the project open source because I WANT people to mess with it and improve it and learn from it), but to discourage using older and buggy bases of our work and even worse, telling people they're better than our current work. If you put the time that we did into it, you would feel the same way.

 

[Lunatik.]

10)When you download shit you download from a private repository hosted by Lunatik, not NUS. This way Nintendo will never screw with you by modifying NUS. If you want to though, you can download from NUS.

I have already talked with Arikado about this, but I just what to claify this line item so that everyone can understand. I DO NOT HOST FILES, doing so is illegal. I provided an option so that people can host their own files on their own private web server. The purpose of allowing an alternate site is 1 of 2 reasons.

1. It's much faster on WiFi transfers than going to NUS all the time.
2. If Nintendo does stop offering files then you at least have another backup of the files in a different location.

We DO NOT take ANY responsibility if someone hosts the NUS files on a public domain server.

 

[Daco]

there, i doubt anyone has anything SMART to add now. if not, just give up and accept you fail.


also

FOUR IN A ROW!

 

[Slimmmmmm]

btw I think all homebrew is great and if it's open source no one should care what someone else does with it. Thanks should be added though to those who have came before you. Variety is the spice of life they say, so it's up to the user what they use in the end, now please people stop arguing it doesn't matter who has the bigger epenis

 

[Daco]

btw I think all homebrew is great and if it's open source no one should care what someone else does with it.

correct, but if they end up saying something retarded like saying a previous version , which obviously was fucked in every way it can , compared to a new version i'd think something is wrong

 

[OArikadoO]

10)When you download shit you download from a private repository hosted by Lunatik, not NUS. This way Nintendo will never screw with you by modifying NUS. If you want to though, you can download from NUS.

I have already talked with Arikado about this, but I just what to claify this line item so that everyone can understand. I DO NOT HOST FILES, doing so is illegal. I provided an option so that people can host their own files on their own private web server. The purpose of allowing an alternate site is 1 of 2 reasons.

1. It's much faster on WiFi transfers than going to NUS all the time.
2. If Nintendo does stop offering files then you at least have another backup of the files in a different location.

We DO NOT take ANY responsibility if someone hosts the NUS files on a public domain server.

Yes Lunatik is entirely correct. It's my fault for not looking at the specifics of our release. I was under the impression the config file pointed to Lunatik's (or my) personal private repo by default but it does not (it used to point to one of the two when we were developing of course), it points to NUS. I sincerely apologize for that comment.

 

[Wiiwu]

This is getting comical...

Not only do we continue to get extremely rude people coming here to confuse users by spewing lies and nonsense about MMM, they are just as confused about their own tool!

 

[noobwarrior7]

This is getting comical...

Not only do we continue to get extremely rude people coming here to confuse users by spewing lies and nonsense about MMM, they are just as confused about their own tool!

I know, isn't it funny? people think if they just make a long enough post, no one will notice when they contradict their own words. blah, blah, no one here is anything more than an extremely minor footnote in any dev scene anyway, and everyone can just decide what program they like best....or they can use those made by people who listen (like you), instead of just talk. :-)

 

[OArikadoO]

This is getting comical...

Not only do we continue to get extremely rude people coming here to confuse users by spewing lies and nonsense about MMM, they are just as confused about their own tool!

I've said no lies about MMM and unlike you I admit when I make a mistake. Try making a real response if you expect me to take you seriously.

 

[TeenTin]

I can see a guy who is in need of love.

Hey. Let's try to love Dop-Mii. May be the name "Dop-Mii" has some kind of meaning.

 

[noobwarrior7]

This is getting comical...

Not only do we continue to get extremely rude people coming here to confuse users by spewing lies and nonsense about MMM, they are just as confused about their own tool!

I've said no lies about MMM and unlike you I admit when I make a mistake. Try making a real response if you expect me to take you seriously.

no one cares who you take in what way you take them....take your mom to the prom naked, you're irrelevant.

 

[TeenTin]

@noobwarrior7

Shouldn't we love someone who is weak ? Please.