1. cots

    cots Banned
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    I read about plans to make games that include millions of NPCs along with millions of players all rendered at the same time with unlimited draw distance in online worlds comparable to the size of our planet featuring photo realistic 4k graphics. If latency wasn't such a big issue this would be a selling point for me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
  2. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
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    Hmmm... On one hand I'm obviously flattered to have inspired a three page thread. But on the other hand, it's not like this is a great place for brainstorming. And I hope to explain why without insulting anyone.

    The problem is that thus far posts have been made with the preconceived notion of what a video game is or should be. And for stadia, that's a trap. Not on every part, of course, but on a few crucial ones.

    Most in my post (or a similar one about stadia) was that it should get 'into the breach' and stardew valley on the platform. Not because I like indie games so much but because they're not affected so much by lag or high ping (it's less annoying that your crops plop onto the screen 100 milliseconds after than that your fighting combo got broken).
    What I was saying was mostly of things to get rid of. Fighting with fast reflexes? No. PvP where hand eye coordination is key? No. Vr? No. QTE's? No! Perhaps somewhere in the near future a standard internet connection comes to the point where these things can reliably work BUT THAT IS NOT NOW!

    For a platform like stadia to become successful, it first needs to realiseer that it can never beat home consoles at their own game. It has advantages, but these are currently relatively unexplored. Namely :
    -connected through any device
    -a lot of horsepower on the other end that'll take care of calculations (compared to home consoles)
    -little to no loading times as a result
    -the entire user base is, by definition, online

    As for disadvantages : it should be assumed that everyone 's responses will have a delay of about half a second. Yes, it's usually better, but if you design a game around that given there'll be mechanics you won't bother to even start with.

    So what's left? It won't be everyone's cup of tea, but I' d say the following :
    -turn based tactics games
    -story driven adventure games (including walking simulators)
    -virtual board games
    -puzzle games that don't rely (as much) on times reflection (1)
    -mmorpg's

    In my post I originally wanted to say something like 'how about playing on multiple devices at once?'. I didn't because the WiiU wasn't exactly successful, but there is some merit to the idea. Like... Say minecraft or factorio like games. They could have a full stadia experience in which you game, and a minimal interface on your phone where you could check on your stuff and perform some minimal tasks.


    (1): and this is perhaps where mag compensaties could compensate,eg tetris pieces farming more slowly if the users experience lag
     
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  3. Nerdtendo

    Nerdtendo Your friendly neighborhood idiot
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    I'd say massive online infrastructures that maintain a focus on individual players. Imagine the expansive world of no man's sky with the quest (and side quests) of skyrim and also HEY LOOK! There's a person over there doing a thing.
     
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  4. destructor1

    destructor1 Advanced Member
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    This entire Streaming shit is the worst that can happen. You actually do not own anything, except the right to play a specific game. You can´t sell it if it turns out to to be shitty. This is the worst thing to happen and it should not be used by anyone. Except i dont see why you wouldn´t wanna actually OWN the Game you like to play. And saying this i mean like Physically. A Disc, or a file on Pendrive or something.
     
  5. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
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    Having the code in the machine reduces rendering latency, but it increases computational latency. Developers have experience of hiding that, but I suspect in ten years we'll see advances in streaming game technology that actually shows some advantage.
     
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  6. raxadian

    raxadian GBAtemp Maniac
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    But not today.

    So to sum it up, the Stadia is a waste of money.
     
  7. Ev1l0rd

    Ev1l0rd (⌐◥▶◀◤) Developer - noirscape
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    Well, if we're talking about getting access to ridiculous specs, Dwarf Fortress stands out to me as something that could benefit from that.

    It's a really deep game but eventually, the game's FPS starts chugging due to pathfinding issues. Having insane specs could fix that (and it wouldn't have the same issues most other games that are internet only have in that Dwarf Fortress can be entirely paced at ones own speed.)
     
  8. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
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    Arguably all money you spend on playing games is a waste.

    I'm not buying it for various reasons, but I don't feel a need to try to dissuade others.
     
  9. Kraken_X

    Kraken_X Advanced Member
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    There isn't anything new that a Stadia or 9th gen system can do that an Xbox 360 or even PS2 couldn't do with worse graphics and more load screens. With the exception of VR and motion controls, there really isn't anything that more CPU power can do to make a game more fun. Sure you could have a bigger world with more stuff in it, and shorter load times before areas. Sure, you could have advanced AI for the handful of players who think "impossible" difficulty is too easy. But really pretty much all new games come down to game styles that already exist or that could have been possible on lesser hardware, but now look prettier. Maybe someday someone could make a game like Mass Effect except that the story and characters are all dynamically generated each time you play, but it will be a very long time before computers will be good enough at randomly generated content to rival a team of people working on a project for years, a separate team doing quality control, etc.

    That's not to say that Stadia couldn't have a killer exclusive, but that exclusive would be exclusive because of a deal, not because it requires "the cloud".
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
  10. DarkCoffe64

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    Something I came up earlier when thinking something like this:
    To try a game before playing it, perhaps?
    Like, instead of having to download a demo, you can maybe directly play the game with a timer, like, dunno, an hour or two,
    and when the time's up you can't play it anymore, but can then decide if it's worth to buy the game or not, I guess.
     
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  11. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
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    You can say the exact same about steam or other online platforms. It might not be your thing, but you can't that there is a market for it.

    Ooh... Very nice idea! Best I've read in this thread so far! :D
    I've seen platforms (steam) try free weekends, but the possibility of just click and instantly play would be a welcome change to all the 'download, install all the components, start the initial configuration' hoops installing a game currently takes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  12. FAST6191

    OP FAST6191 Techromancer
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    AI right now for 3d games is usually so much run at you and attack, maybe take cover and maybe run away. Something a bit more intelligent capable of some kind of flanking setup and some actual tactics, or indeed some measure of play itself, would spice things up a bit.

    As far as AI generation goes then I don't think it is as far off as you reckon it to be, and if they limit it to more of a prebaked list of options to tie together and location to do it in, and couple it with some AI like above then it could do very well in very short order. Similarly have you not seen people play most Ubisoft efforts year after year?

    As far as more CPU not making more fun. Not inherently or obviously like it once might have been but some more/better physics to play with, more items on display to do better at populating a world and while load times and such could create similar things then there is such a thing as too much load time and if we can dodge that then it is not a bad thing.


    I pondered whether I would be twisting your words with that one but I will stand with my context I gave in addition. I do agree it is hard to break from paradigms and current lines of thought and imagine what could be done, this was more of a fun thought exercise than anything particularly serious though.

    QTEs could be done if the lag (which again I can reduce to minimal for this -- stick such things in what is still big boy LAN territory or city level and pings go right down) is consistent -- as it stands while some games will tell me to press when the icon flies through the circle but I learned my mum's awful TV means hit it about 2 circle widths before that to win, or indeed what people ended up doing for Mother 3. Might benefit from a slight twist and having you queue up commands rather than instant results too. Possibly with something similar to how network time servers work if you can get the controller to keep something like time.
     
  13. Nightwish

    Nightwish GBAtemp Fan
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    To be more clear, it depends on how much data each player needs. If everyone is seeing more or less the same thing and with little inventory/units/..., it would work well. If players aren't clustered around a smallish location and can affect a lot of different things at the same time, it might not be possible to. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how much is too much, it may be less than I thought.

    Yeah, it's a misnomer the gaming community uses. It's just the process of scavenging the game files for content that isn't easily seen or connected to the game yet, it has nothing to do with finding statistical patterns.
    I mean, it is correct literally, but someone took the name first, so it's wrong.
     
  14. Alkéryn

    Alkéryn Moon Dweller ~
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    Have much bigger game worlds / data, and have it only a single time for all player
    ex maps that'd take TB's of fast random accesses on memory to work but that are shared between all gameplays and such things but w/e
     
  15. europat

    europat Advanced Member
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    You don't own a physical game
     
  16. elBenyo

    elBenyo Wad of meat.
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    I will say I read all the replies and unlimited RAM and view distances sounds great but.... but!!! The killer app they need is something like SteamOS. They need a virtual PC like a Chromebook, so poor folks like me can edit video on a powerful cloud and then jump into whatever else. Say it's Hulu or a desktop, just have approved Google apps. No, people won't go crazy with it because Google can nuder the OS, to the kin of say WebOS. Avoid another AndroidTV situation lol.
     
  17. rich333

    rich333 GBAtemp Regular
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    i think it needs to create new genres, making the current style of games now is just a test, to iron out latency and other issues.

    i think the new genres will incorporate the use of additional sensors or devices. like connecting to cameras google has setup all over the globe, or gps movements from phones (they already have the data). connecting to devices on IoT - all in real-time and interacting with a massive amount of people. Something to bridge the real world into a interactive game
     
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  18. LoggerMan

    LoggerMan GBAtemp Fan
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    Real life remote control cars, 12 remote cars in a warehouse, 12 players control them from their xboxes, paying $1 per race, which is used to pay for the cost of clearing the cars and setting up new cars after each race. Real physics, real video, overlaid with animations.
     
  19. AlexMCS

    AlexMCS Advanced Member
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    Even that is impossible.
    Consider that this is unfeasible for a single player using cutting edge PCs. We would need many clusters for 1 player to get there.
    Imagine doing the same for many players, each with their own camera view, implying in calculations for each player.
     
  20. The Real Jdbye

    The Real Jdbye Always Remember 30/07/08
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    You don't need Stadia to do that. Check out Isotopium ;)
    https://www.isotopium.com/
     
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