Hacking HBC 1.0.8 Update

[leic7]

For a while, we had plans of making some sort of “App Store” to go with it — much like the one present with Installer.app on the iPhone at the time — but those never made it off the ground. One thing that would go along with that would have been signature verification — one thing we could have done would have been to set up our own PKI and start signing “good” apps, but that would put us into the position of being a gatekeeper and deciding what was good and what wasn’t, and that wasn’t something I ever really wanted to be responsible for. [...] Part of the problem there would have been deciding what we want to allow — sure, 100% homebrew games would have been pretty easy to allow and ISOloaders would have been easy to reject, but what of all of the things in between? There’s a whole gray area out there of software — emulators, WAD extraction / installation utilities, system file patchers, updaters — we have a hard enough time agreeing on what software we like, much less deciding what everyone else “should” be using.

After reading this excerpt, I'm under the impression that TT probably won't put themselves in the position to decide what the user should and should not run on their wii...not because they believe that is the choice of the user, but because it would be too enormous a task for them to choose what's good and what's not. That tone is actually quite worrisome. For something that's easy to choose, like a 100% homebrew game or an ISOloader, their obstacle to that end (making the decision for the user) would be apparently vanished. Then, I have a question: Hypothetically, if TT could find a way to make those decisions for the user, would they act on it?

 

[Jacobeian]

The thing is in HOW you express your concerns. If it's some constructive doubts, why not, but if it's some conspiratorial crap, we won't stand it.

As you can see from the large number of pages this thread has, some of those comments have stirred up quite a chaos, and that's exactly what we're preventing to happen.

We must have vastly different definitions for "conspiratorial crap" and "chaos" then, 'cause I don't see any of those.

then you must either be blind or share some genes with Skizzo, because this thread is full of people speculating and thinking they "know the truth" when they can't even read or understand other's arguments.

facts are rather clear though and I still don't understand why some people here are so obsessed with Team Twiizer's stance against piracy and absolutely want to see them as evil censors:

- HBC is now using IOS58 for USB2 and can now open full doors to Wii hardware BUT you can still load ANY application through HBC and don't care about the changes
- they stopped supporting patched IOS on Wiibrew since it's now unecessary for beginners BUT you can still install cIOS, use them, modify them, etc if you want
- they said since the very beginning they don't agree with pirating Wii games and that they will always try to do things that does not contribute directly to piracy BUT you can still use their tool for piracy and they have never bricked,blocked,nuked,etc any Wii because of such activity.

I don't see anything wrong with that so why the hell would you jump into the conclusions that they want to make HBC filtering apps or preventing you from using backup loaders ???

The only reasons I see, personnaly:

- people who don't completely assume what they are doing (ie pirating) and can't bear other people having different views and giving them moral lessons; Why do you even care ? Do what you want and let others do what they want, as long as nobody is interfering with other, everything is fine. And I have,'t seen iany interference with the release of this new HBC so why all this fuss ?

- people who can't understand that some people can be against piracy but still want the Wii to be an open platform, that this is not incompatible, that people are not just anti- or pro-, etc

 

[leic7]

then you must either be blind or share some genes with Skizzo, because this thread is full of people speculating and thinking they "know the truth" when they can't even read or understand other's arguments.

facts are rather clear though and I still don't understand why some people here are so obsessed with Team Twiizer's stance against piracy and absolutely want to see them as evil censors:

- HBC is now using IOS58 for USB2 and can now open full doors to Wii hardware BUT you can still load ANY application through HBC and don't care about the changes
- they stopped supporting patched IOS on Wiibrew since it's now unecessary for beginners BUT you can still install cIOS, use them, modify them, etc if you want
- they said since the very beginning they don't agree with pirating Wii games and that they will always try to do things that does not contribute directly to piracy BUT you can still use their tool for piracy and they have never bricked,blocked,nuked,etc any Wii because of such activity.

I don't see anything wrong with that so why the hell would you jump into the conclusions that they want to make HBC filtering apps or preventing you from using backup loaders ???

The only reasons I see, personnaly:

- people who don't completely assume what they are doing (ie pirating) and can't bear other people having different views and giving them moral lessons; Why do you even care ? Do what you want and let others do what they want, as long as nobody is interfering with other, everything is fine. And I have,'t seen iany interference with the release of this new HBC so why all this fuss ?

- people who can't understand that some people can be against piracy but still want the Wii to be an open platform, that this is not incompatible, that people are not just anti- or pro-, etc

"know the truth"? What truth are you talking about? Actually, what do you even mean by that? What exactly are they speculating? What exactly do they not understand?

Your post is so vague that it raises so many questions in my head that I don't even know where to begin asking...

TT's stance against piracy...ok, do you view that as evil? Why would you even use the term "evil censors"? I don't think many are obsessed with their "stance", but some people do care to know what they would actually "do" about it.

And "jumping into conclusions" sounds like a final stage of a mental process, I don't think anyone's at that stage yet. Personally I just asked an honest hypothetical question, because I'm curious about the answer.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I care about user's choice within the homebrew community, I care about it as a philosophy.

 

[Jacobeian]

"know the truth"? What truth are you talking about? Actually, what do you even mean by that? What exactly are they speculating? What exactly do they not understand?

Your post is so vague that it raises so many questions in my head that I don't even know where to begin asking...

I mean, when you constantly explain to people why their fears are unfounded and that there is currently no reason to think it will change, you might eventually ask yourself why they are so obstinate in thinking everybody else is wrong and they are right. Read that damn thread if you want examples, it's not that hard to find if you are *really* motivated to know what I'm referring to.

TT's stance against piracy...ok, do you view that as evil? Why would you even use the term "evil censors"? I don't think many are obsessed with their "stance", but some people do care to know what they would actually "do" about it.

No, this was a caricature, to show how ridiculous it is to classify people.
Again, there have been many examples and many arguments to show that recent HBC update are NOT going to limit what you can do with your Wii, that's said, it won't cure paranoiac people.

And "jumping into conclusions" sounds like a final stage of a mental process, I don't think anyone's at that stage yet. Personally I just asked an honest hypothetical question, because I'm curious about the answer.

jumping to conclusions = speculating = unfounded theories
questions have been answered all along this thread, still some people act as if they didn't want to hear because it goes against their initial conviction

QUOTE

I can't speak for anyone else, but I care about user's choice within the homebrew community, I care about it as a philosophy.

but you HAVE choice, I can't see a current console where there are so much things you can do and so much developpers/hackers trying to make the console always more open to homebrew, no matter what is your definition to homebrew

 

[marquesduarte]

Backk on the title of topic...
I have installed IOS58 latest via wadmanager...OK
Updated HBC to the 1.0.8 and it is running fine.
And the downloaded the latest versions of apps that uses IOS58 to have USB2.0
Now the problem...when i run any app that uses IOS58 (excluding HBC) the system freeze and show me an exception screen...some kind of DSI error with many numbers
What maybe its happening?

Did you use tantrics 58 installer ?

http://wiibrew.org/wiki/IOS58_Installer

I dont have an internet connection on my Wii..thats why i use WadManager to install IOS58, because the tantrics installer download the IOS...
There is another way of installing it?

 

[lulwut]

The old installers used a different method that required the DiVerify bug. The new installer uses HW_AHBPROT and therefore can work regardless of the IOS used to install but apparently doesn't work right with DarkCorp. He apparently has fixed the current issue but there is no telling what will happen when a new DarkCorp comes out. In fact, I would bet that most of the issues with IOS58 USB loading not working (such as the problem with WiiMC) are due to cIOScorp/DarkCorp. Of course, with forwarder channels there is no reason to have any hacked IOSes below 200 except for the system menu IOS (to fix custom channels from SD).

dude, the last released installer never used the stuff of HW_AHBPROT.
are you fucking retarded or something?
that blog post was about unreleased code...

 

[Tom191]

Just close this thread already. I'm surprised the mods haven't done so yet with the BS that has come out of it and it's not any bit helpful.

 

[marcan_troll]

what the user should and should not run on their wii...

Huh? You guys just love to twist words, don't you. How is policing content on a hypothetical (non-exclusive) app store (hint: no different to policing content on Wiibrew) even remotely close to actually forcing users to run only approved content? What makes you think you wouldn't be able to run your own app store or manually install and launch apps?

Get it straight, kids: whatever you do with your Wii is your choice, but whatever you can download from an on-line repository (automated like an app store, or manual like Wiibrew) is solely the decision of the administrators of that service. Go get your cIOSes from shadybrew and stop whining and spreading FUD about blacklists and whitelists.

 

[Dogway]

Has anyone of the "Dark side" managed to remove the autoupdate notification on HBC 1.0.8? and how?
I bet one of these days Im f&%·$ going to misclick on "yes" and screw my wii.
In the meanwhile Im relying on the system menu and its custom channels. :/

 

[tj_cool]

Has anyone of the "Dark side" managed to remove the autoupdate notification on HBC 1.0.8? and how?
I bet one of these days Im f&%·$ going to misclick on "yes" and screw my wii.
In the meanwhile Im relying on the system menu and its custom channels. :/

How is updating the HBC gonna "screw your Wii"?

 

[XFlak]

How is updating the HBC gonna "screw your Wii"?

explanation

edit: HBC isn't to blame... but still a good explanation

 

[WiiPower]

How is updating the HBC gonna "screw your Wii"?

explanation

edit: HBC isn't to blame... but still a good explanation

"That doesn't change the fact that the reputation of the HBC is still jeopardized. " WTF???

If you set your Wii somehow to only boot HBC, you have to ensure that will work properly. If you use darkcrap and trick HBC to actually use it, you did everything to ensure HBC doesn't work properly.

If there's one homebrew software for Wii that is tested a lot and didn't brick any Wii yet, then it's HBC!

 

[raulpica]

Just close this thread already. I'm surprised the mods haven't done so yet with the BS that has come out of it and it's not any bit helpful.

Mainly because some users have concerns (look at that word: concern. I won't stand any single of that "ZOMG TEAM TWIIZERS IS GONNA BRICK MY ASS!" crap anymore.), and seeing that some members from TT (like marcan) are actually answering on here, I thought it might be better keeping this unlocked.

Don't worry, we're accurately warning (and banning!) whoever keeps on trolling/flamebaiting in any way.

 

[leic7]

I mean, when you constantly explain to people why their fears are unfounded and that there is currently no reason to think it will change, you might eventually ask yourself why they are so obstinate in thinking everybody else is wrong and they are right. Read that damn thread if you want examples, it's not that hard to find if you are *really* motivated to know what I'm referring to.
Oh, you're not referring to what Skizzo has said then. Okay.

I don't remember anyone saying the 1.0.8 update would limit what you can run...that has never been my point.

I don't have any conclusions, I've some questions though. My questions have not been answered, and I believe this is where the communication broke down. My questions are about the underlying philosophy, the "answers" about how cIOSes are no longer necessary are immediate reasons for why some apps are pulled from a site, these "answers" don't actually answer my questions about their philosophy...in high school terms, those immediate reasons only answer the "How?" questions, while what I'm interested in is the "Why?" questions.

User's choice is my focal point, those immediate reasons are peripheral and have very little relevance to the focal point. BTW, I'm not passing value judgment on anything, I ask questions just for the benefit of my own curiosity.

QUOTE(marcan_troll @ Aug 18 2010, 04:17 PM) Huh? You guys just love to twist words, don't you. How is policing content on a hypothetical (non-exclusive) app store (hint: no different to policing content on Wiibrew) even remotely close to actually forcing users to run only approved content? What makes you think you wouldn't be able to run your own app store or manually install and launch apps?

Get it straight, kids: whatever you do with your Wii is your choice, but whatever you can download from an on-line repository (automated like an app store, or manual like Wiibrew) is solely the decision of the administrators of that service. Go get your cIOSes from shadybrew and stop whining and spreading FUD about blacklists and whitelists.

Whose words am I twisting? I was asking a question/for clarifications in my post, nothing more to it. I only asked that after reading the excerpt in the quotes, never read the original piece, so I actually didn't know the context. So that piece was about some repository run by some folks, and there could be many other repositories of the same nature by different people? Then I'd agree with you in the way you phrased it.

And I really like it when you say "whatever you do with your Wii is your choice", because now you're answering my questions. Just to put this whole thing to rest, can you clarify to what extent do you believe that statement is true? Like, are there any conditions under which that statement may not hold true?

 

[elimist]

Has anyone of the "Dark side" managed to remove the autoupdate notification on HBC 1.0.8? and how?
I bet one of these days Im f&%·$ going to misclick on "yes" and screw my wii.
In the meanwhile Im relying on the system menu and its custom channels. :/

If you really want to, someone in this thread said that banning http://hackmii.com/ on your router works but I haven't tried it. You also won't screw your wii by updating, I am still anle to play backups and everything else as normal.

 

[marcan_troll]

Just to put this whole thing to rest, can you clarify to what extent do you believe that statement is true? Like, are there any conditions under which that statement may not hold true?

That statement is always true as long as no one else is involved (i.e. as long as online services aren't involved). Once you go online different rules apply (e.g. cheating in online games and spamming online services are both fundamentally wrong).

Noone has ever complained about the often stupid things that people do with their Wiis. It is when people distribute and advertise the tools to others without accurately representing the risks and benefits that we get annoyed.

To use a rather extreme example, I couldn't care less if you somehow reverse engineer HBC and turn it into a warez loader to use on your Wii. Of course, if you then go ahead and distribute it, I may have to hunt you down and make you suffer as much pain as possible for it.

To use a practical example, the HackMii installer refuses to run under patched IOSes for very good reasons. You're free to mess around with it and bypass those restrictions on your Wii, but the moment you distribute the result (in this case DarkCorp, which has deliberately bypassed the fakesign detection) you're going directly against our wishes and specifically causing us annoyances (spurious bug reports). And of course, if you operate under these unsupported configurations, you have no right to file bug reports or complain that things don't work.

There are technical reasons for the HackMii installer and HBC to refuse to run under patched IOSes. These configurations are unsupported, untested, and we do not want them to be generally used as they cause spurious bug reports, generally decrease people's opinion of the tools when they happen, and in the case of the HackMii installer could actually end up bricking your Wii. We have the right to technically annoy you if you want to use these configurations, and you have a right to deal with those annoyances and do it on your Wii anyway if you're persistent enough. You do not have the right to complain about the lack of support and we ask that you do not distribute materials and methods to use these unsupported configurations.

There are no technical reasons for HBC not to load an application that is technically valid. Once the application boots, no one cares what it does.

The difference is that in the first case HBC and the HackMii installer run under the patched IOS, modifying their behavior, while in the latter case that doesn't happen. This is why HBC is never going to get a whitelist or a blacklist or refuse to load an app for a nontechnical reason, and why it will never care about anything on your system that isn't running at the same time as it is. The only time it would make sense to break this rule would be to block some kind of blatantly malicious app that makes the rounds affecting people's Wiis (something along the lines of that DS bricker, for example). And in that case it would have to be some kind of simple hash-based blacklist, which is trivial to bypass (its purpose would be to prevent people from accidentally running malicious software, not to stop anyone from doing it on their Wii if they really want to).

The sad thing is that anyone who has followed the actions of the team for any amount of time and who isn't a paranoid tinfoil hatter should already know all of this.

By the way, the HBC update statistics only report the HBC version, your system menu version, your region, and your console ID. We have no way of knowing if your Wii is squeaky clean or a cesspool of warezcrap. The console ID is only used to quantify the number of users (IPs are notoriously unreliable for this, especially in places such as Korea where some ISPs do NAT). And HBC has no ability to do anything in response to the update report except show you the update dialog. And the HackMii installer doesn't install or upgrade anything automatically without user input (except for BootMii-IOS which is required for the exploit, but that's behind-the-scenes software anyway). And as far as I know HBC updates have never removed any non-obsoleted features (except for regressions that got fixed), so you guys need to stop being paranoid idiots and just update. We've had 12 chances to fuck you over so far and we haven't, what makes you think we will do so next time? Oh, and another reminder: HBC has no downgrade protection, so you can always go back to any prior version.

P.S., since this is bound to come up: this isn't my "return" to the Wii scene. I have done very little Wii-related for the past 18 months or so. For some silly reason I've been making some improvements to HBC this past week, and I did contribute to the 4.3 exploit, but I don't expect this to last. I have other long term stuff to do that's more interesting and less drama-laden. So don't go around accusing me (or praising me) for "coming back". I'm just bored enough to troll gbatemp a bit and give HBC a proper font engine.

P.P.S., for the mentally challenged folks and the tl;dr folks:
HBC 1.0.8 WILL NOT DELETE OR REFUSE TO LOAD ANYTHING, NOR WILL ANY FUTURE HBC

 

[WiiUBricker]

Quote from marcan (hackmii blog):

Applications that install cIOS are getting removed. Applications that (optionally) support cIOS (but don’t themselves install it) aren’t.

Still, at this stage there is just about no use for cIOS within legit homebrew. Take it as an opportunity to port or improve your applications so they don’t depend on warez-laden IOSes.

So it's about warez, I see..

The only reason existing tools went is because they can also install cIOScrap.

See, the reason for removing such apps is piracy

You said cIOS are no longer needed due to AHBPROT that bypasses IOS to access devices directly from the PPC but are you sure, that this feature did not hide any risks? In addition, you said, cIOS are dangerous and can brick Wii consoles (I cant prove that because the moderators have deleted most of your posts here). Then explain me that please:

QUOTE

IOS is a somewhat unique system in that many games use (and come with) their own version of the IOS, though many games use the same IOS versions. There is no "true" version of the operating system, instead there are many of what could be called "slots" for different versions of IOS to sit in. IOS versions are not aware of each other, and are not used or invoked at all unless software specifically requests to run using them. In this way it can be considered "safe" to install custom IOS modules, or to patch any IOS module so long as it is not used by the system menu, as if it becomes corrupt it can be deleted and replaced without damaging the system as a whole.

 

[giantpune]

yes, its safe to install custom IOS as they mentioned. it is not guaranteed to be safe to actually run the custom IOS. see the difference? install != use.

 

[Liberty]

Marcan, first i want to thank you for his post. Hope this stops at least some of these paranoid trolls. I personally don't care if someone uses warez or not. It's their decision and they may have their reasons. But if i would pirate something, i would just do it and shut the fuck up about it. I always hated thoose douchebags trolling around the forums: "oh i can't play my warez anymore, help help". They should start using their brains and eventually they will find a solution on their own.

Do you rob a bank and ask the police for transport lol? That's how these kids behave.

 

[ether2802]

So you are tired about the bug reports, that are being sent automatically to you, from those cIOScraped Wii's...?? that is annoying...!!