Hacking HBC 1.0.8 Update

[Slowking]

This topic is really pissing me off that nothing good is coming out of it. What we know here is there are a few intelligent people that do coding and understand things and then a shitload of people that don't know shit.

Quit arguing about TT's decision about what they are doing with the wiki. Quit arguing with megazig, the rest of you are too numb to understand what is going on. He has made his point, and if you people can't see it then thats your problem.

The fact is HBC does not hinder anything purposely (there are a few slight bugs, but thats more with the app that you're trying to run). But what TT have discovered is the 3rd holy grail in wii hacking (1st being private key, 2nd being GC usb loading (IMHO)). There is a full way of accessing all the hardware where CIOS's are no longer needed!!! Yes it may take a while for every other app to catch up, but it eventually will. For now some people will still need cIOS's, but later on no one will. This is huge leaps and bounds.

Imagine, once the coders catch up, you will be able to install anything, do anything, and not need SU rights or anything like that like what the nintendo software was designed to do and all apps have had to adapt to that, until now.

The doors are open to even greater possibilities.

You will eventually be able to run a USB Loader without needing a cIOS installed. You wont need to fill up your precious low space nand with bullshit cIOS's and you can save more space for more important things. Further more, you will not need to test out buggy cIOS's and then wait for the apps to catch up and work around the bugs. You wont need to be hyped up that the next cIOS will do something and then totally fail because the duck tape hacker forgot to do something.

Megazig said it right, people need to learn to code better. There is so much more that is capable to happen when someone knows what they are truely doing, and not someone learning this as a high school project.

This topic should really get closed, or someone start posting examples of code so people can learn how to do something with their new found wonderful function.
It seems you really don't know how the Wii works. Games need an IOS running on starlett, to handel all their calls. Rerouting all these calls for all games is just not possible unless you have an army of coders working on it for years. So backups will always need a cIOS.
What could eventually be possible is either patching an IOS on the fly when it's loaded into starlett or having patched IOS files on your SD card that get loaded into starlett directly from there.

But for both it would be far more likely to use a modified version of MINI than the AHBROT feature. But that would still need one homebrew IOS installed in NAND, namely the modified MINI.

I found these results on a german board

QUOTEFAT32 partiton:

IOS58 original libogc (which is used in WiiXplorer)
Reading speed. 2500KB/s, writing speed. 1400KB/s

IOS58 with modified libogc (dont have USB1 anymore)
Reading speed. 5400KB/s, writing speed. 2400KB/s

IOS202 original libogc:
Reading speed. 8000KB/s, writing speed. 2900KB/s

NTFS partition:

IOS202 original libogc:
Reading speed. 11-12 MB/s, writing speed. 5.6 MB/s

So what do you think?

So probably just the libogc implementation that makes it slower. Wait a while for speed fixes...

 

[Skizzo]

Are you sure they all work fine and won't cause any problems later (such as bricking or being locked out of HBC)? If so then I will go ahead and reinstall the cioses and Priiloader/wad manager/cfgloader.

There is zero chance of Team Twiizers purposefully bricking your Wii or locking you out of HBC because of what you have installed.
The only thing you have to fear is the people who have been spreading rumours that they will.

Since when does 'whitelisting' = being locked out of HBC?

Haven't TT essentially stated, repeatedly, that everything they're doing is to help 'noob proof' homebrew on the Wii? If that is indeed their goal, they why in the hell wouldn't they implement some sort of whitelisting? What in the hell have the anti-malware/virus companies done in order to protect idiots who'll run anything on their PC's? EXACTLY the same thing. There's not even anything inherently wrong with it (shit! people actually PAY for it) and if common sense prevailed around here and you were in agreement with TT's goals, then it'd acually be something you'd be requesting. So why everyone gets upset when the idea gets mentioned is beyond me. Again, whitelisting DOES NOT equal 'locking you out of HBC because of what you have installed', just like the PC AV apps that implement it don't lock you out of your fucking PC either. They simply inform you that the particular application you're about to run could possibly be dangerous for one or more reasons, and then they let you decide whether you still want to run it or not. Of course, TT could decide to not give you that choice, but so what. Everyone I've seen getting defensive over mentioning whitelisting oddly appears to support the decision to remove all the 'unapproved' apps from wiibrew, so you must agree that they are apps that people don't need to be running on their Wiis, so why not help ensure that with more proactive means? You people are reading way too fucking much into this simple idea of whitelisting apps.

That's the fucking problem, people can't read or they can but they still choose to misrepresent what's actually been said, erecting their strawmen 'rumours'. So, the only real thing you have to 'fear' is idiots who can't read or who can, but for whatever reasons, choose to twist words instead.

 

[elimist]

^^^ whitelisting means that only apps on the whitelist are allowed to run, which means that every time a new app is released, you would have to update the hbc to use it. I think that you meant to say blacklist which means that apps on the blacklist would not be allowed to run which is what anti virus companies do (and fail at because changing a few bytes changes the signature). So when you say "people can't read or they can but they still choose to misrepresent what's actually been said", I hope you are talking about yourself. And those apps that are removed from wiibrew are not unnessary because there are currently very few apps that stopped using patched ios. And what about making legit backups of your games? Cios is not going to die in a few days.

 

[ChokeD]

Here we go again. * goes to get even more popcorn*

 

[tueidj]

That's the fucking problem, people can't read or they can but they still choose to misrepresent what's actually been said, erecting their strawmen 'rumours'. So, the only real thing you have to 'fear' is idiots who can't read or who can, but for whatever reasons, choose to twist words instead.
Like yourself?

hackmii.comFor a while, we had plans of making some sort of “App Store” to go with it — much like the one present with Installer.app on the iPhone at the time — but those never made it off the ground. One thing that would go along with that would have been signature verification — one thing we could have done would have been to set up our own PKI and start signing “good” apps, but that would put us into the position of being a gatekeeper and deciding what was good and what wasn’t, and that wasn’t something I ever really wanted to be responsible for. [...] Part of the problem there would have been deciding what we want to allow — sure, 100% homebrew games would have been pretty easy to allow and ISOloaders would have been easy to reject, but what of all of the things in between? There’s a whole gray area out there of software — emulators, WAD extraction / installation utilities, system file patchers, updaters — we have a hard enough time agreeing on what software we like, much less deciding what everyone else “should” be using.

So STFU already, they've already said HBC will not decide what you can/can't run.

 

[DownSince86]

The stupidity of this community never fails to amaze me.

TT: Thanks for the update, as always.

 

[Skizzo]

^^^ whitelisting means that only apps on the whitelist are allowed to run, which means that every time a new app is released, you would have to update the hbc to use it.
HBC 'phones home' every time it is run and the list could be maintained on their end. It's not like there are hundreds or thousands of Wii apps being released every day or even every month, which would make maintaining the list impossible or even very difficult, especially given all the free time they'd have after being freed up from having to deal with noobs bricking their Wiis by running 'unsavory' apps. And as I said, many PC AV/malware apps using whitelisting don't necessarily automatically deny you the opportunity to run any app not on the whitelist. You are given information about what doesn't jive and informed of the possible dangers and then asked what you'd like to do.

QUOTEI think that you meant to say blacklist which means that apps on the blacklist would not be allowed to run which is what anti virus companies do (and fail at because changing a few bytes changes the signature). So when you say "people can't read or they can but they still choose to misrepresent what's actually been said", I hope you are talking about yourself. And those apps that are removed from wiibrew are not unnessary because there are currently very few apps that stopped using patched ios. And what about making legit backups of your games? Cios is not going to die in a few days.

No, when someone mentioned that blacklisting would be very difficult or impossible, giving the reasons you just did (was it you?), I brought up whitelisting. So, nope, not talking about myself, but perhaps I was talking about you, because whitelisting is what I said and what I meant.

And as I said, if you AGREE with TT's GOALS, then the apps that were removed are unnecessary. One of those GOALS being to allow homebrew to run on the Wii without the need for cIOS's. In this context, a 'goal' is something you are trying to achieve, not something that you already have. So, their goal is to be able for someone to take a 'virgin' Wii, install their app and then be able to run homebrew on that Wii, without ever having to touch a cIOS. NONE of the apps that were removed from wiibrew are necessary in achieving this goal. Whether or not those behind coding those apps or any others decide to change their apps to FIT IN with the goals of TT is their choice.

Legit backups of your games? Show me a country's laws that clearly shows there is even such a thing, because it certainly isn't America nor many of the other countries where the term 'legit backup' is freely bandied about. Either way, I never said cIOS's were going to die, today or tomorrow. In fact, I don't think they'll ever die because not everyone is TT and not everyone agrees with their goals.

 

[elimist]

(was it you?)

no, that was someone else.

 

[s3phir0th115]

Legit backups of your games? Show me a country's laws that clearly shows there is even such a thing, because it certainly isn't America nor many of the other countries where the term 'legit backup' is freely bandied about. Either way, I never said cIOS's were going to die, today or tomorrow. In fact, I don't think they'll ever die because not everyone is TT and not everyone agrees with their goals.

Backups are allowed under United States law, although the DMCA provides the restriction that you can't bypass copy protection legally.

Though it's widely debated, and there are even exemptions in some cases. Like making documentaries and all using clips from movies you have to bypass CSS to gain access to is allowed under some recently approved exemptions.

That's an example for movies. But backups are allowed for all forms of media that are copyrightable,as long as you don't bypass the copy protection restriction. But, again, there are exceptions.

And just what copy protection is can be debated. For example, some would call certain things on playstation games copy protection. But is it bypassing protection if you allow the copier to properly copy all the parts of the disc so that it detects what it should? Quite debatable.

 

[ChokeD]

I was wondering what kind of arguments that HBC has included and if say we would be able to use it with WiiMC directly. I have read that WiiMC has arguments but I don't know what they are. Is there a list somewhere to reference for either or both ?? Would be much appreciated. The process was just roughly explained/discussed to me, but I learn fast and would love to experiment with some stuff.

If this has been discussed already forgive me, but I didn't catch it for all the jibberish.

 

[elimist]

I think this is what you are looking for. http://gbatemp.net/t248250-apps-that-support-arguments

 

[nl255]

well, technically only the priiloader installer needs to be updated. Priiloader itself does not need a cIOS.

And I don't understand why the fuss to totally purge cIOSs all of a sudden. Everyone is going to continue using them until the scene catches up with using HW_AHBPROT (and possibly even still afterwards).

and here is the word of Daco :

cios should die and if you check the source of the installer it says he dislikes the ios patches but are the only way of installing without an exploit of your own.
that being said; he now uses the stuff of HW_AHBPROT.

HOWEVER,
since system menu doesn't have this right he has a few issues with booting applications that WILL require it ( like the installer for updates or any applications to come that will use it )
and his code isn't stable yet (3 wii's tested, 2 worked , 1 failed and caused a "brick" ).



also, forget priiloader updating. his old site is gone. his irc channel (#priiloader @ efnet) however now says www.dacotaco.com so im guessing his updates are there now too... (can't confirm that tho)

Well, he apparently found out what was causing the bricks with the new Priiloader installer. No surprise, it was good old Darkcorp. I expect the final release will check to make sure the IOS used (either 38 or 61) is clean to avoid bricks.

 

[lulwut]

well, technically only the priiloader installer needs to be updated. Priiloader itself does not need a cIOS.

And I don't understand why the fuss to totally purge cIOSs all of a sudden. Everyone is going to continue using them until the scene catches up with using HW_AHBPROT (and possibly even still afterwards).

and here is the word of Daco :

cios should die and if you check the source of the installer it says he dislikes the ios patches but are the only way of installing without an exploit of your own.
that being said; he now uses the stuff of HW_AHBPROT.

HOWEVER,
since system menu doesn't have this right he has a few issues with booting applications that WILL require it ( like the installer for updates or any applications to come that will use it )
and his code isn't stable yet (3 wii's tested, 2 worked , 1 failed and caused a "brick" ).



also, forget priiloader updating. his old site is gone. his irc channel (#priiloader @ efnet) however now says www.dacotaco.com so im guessing his updates are there now too... (can't confirm that tho)

Well, he apparently found out what was causing the bricks with the new Priiloader installer. No surprise, it was good old Darkcorp. I expect the final release will check to make sure the IOS used (either 38 or 61) is clean to avoid bricks.

old installer? the released installers rarely caused a brick o.O

 

[nl255]

well, technically only the priiloader installer needs to be updated. Priiloader itself does not need a cIOS.

And I don't understand why the fuss to totally purge cIOSs all of a sudden. Everyone is going to continue using them until the scene catches up with using HW_AHBPROT (and possibly even still afterwards).

and here is the word of Daco :

cios should die and if you check the source of the installer it says he dislikes the ios patches but are the only way of installing without an exploit of your own.
that being said; he now uses the stuff of HW_AHBPROT.

HOWEVER,
since system menu doesn't have this right he has a few issues with booting applications that WILL require it ( like the installer for updates or any applications to come that will use it )
and his code isn't stable yet (3 wii's tested, 2 worked , 1 failed and caused a "brick" ).



also, forget priiloader updating. his old site is gone. his irc channel (#priiloader @ efnet) however now says www.dacotaco.com so im guessing his updates are there now too... (can't confirm that tho)

Well, he apparently found out what was causing the bricks with the new Priiloader installer. No surprise, it was good old Darkcorp. I expect the final release will check to make sure the IOS used (either 38 or 61) is clean to avoid bricks.

old installer? the released installers rarely caused a brick o.O

The old installers used a different method that required the DiVerify bug. The new installer uses HW_AHBPROT and therefore can work regardless of the IOS used to install but apparently doesn't work right with DarkCorp. He apparently has fixed the current issue but there is no telling what will happen when a new DarkCorp comes out. In fact, I would bet that most of the issues with IOS58 USB loading not working (such as the problem with WiiMC) are due to cIOScorp/DarkCorp. Of course, with forwarder channels there is no reason to have any hacked IOSes below 200 except for the system menu IOS (to fix custom channels from SD).

 

[s3phir0th115]

The old installers used a different method that required the DiVerify bug. The new installer uses HW_AHBPROT and therefore can work regardless of the IOS used to install but apparently doesn't work right with DarkCorp. He apparently has fixed the current issue but there is no telling what will happen when a new DarkCorp comes out. In fact, I would bet that most of the issues with IOS58 USB loading not working (such as the problem with WiiMC) are due to cIOScorp/DarkCorp. Of course, with forwarder channels there is no reason to have any hacked IOSes below 200 except for the system menu IOS (to fix custom channels from SD).

I'll bet you it messed up for the exact same reason the WiiMC Channel Installer does on a Darkcorp patched IOS58 too.

 

[Skizzo]

That's the fucking problem, people can't read or they can but they still choose to misrepresent what's actually been said, erecting their strawmen 'rumours'. So, the only real thing you have to 'fear' is idiots who can't read or who can, but for whatever reasons, choose to twist words instead.
Like yourself?

For a while, we had plans of making some sort of “App Store” to go with it — much like the one present with Installer.app on the iPhone at the time — but those never made it off the ground. One thing that would go along with that would have been signature verification — one thing we could have done would have been to set up our own PKI and start signing “good” apps, but that would put us into the position of being a gatekeeper and deciding what was good and what wasn’t, and that wasn’t something I ever really wanted to be responsible for. [...] Part of the problem there would have been deciding what we want to allow — sure, 100% homebrew games would have been pretty easy to allow and ISOloaders would have been easy to reject, but what of all of the things in between? There’s a whole gray area out there of software — emulators, WAD extraction / installation utilities, system file patchers, updaters — we have a hard enough time agreeing on what software we like, much less deciding what everyone else “should” be using.

So STFU already, they've already said HBC will not decide what you can/can't run.

So I take it these folks are much more trustworthy than yourself?

Anyways, for those who would like to read the above in its entire context see http://hackmii.com/2010/05/of_homebrew_and_antipiracy/

Wow...STFU already? I didn't think we were allowed to say such things around here. But I guess you'd know more about that than me.

Anyways, as you can clearly see, but you fail to mention, that post is regarding them not wanting to decide what apps are 'gray' when it comes to piracy enabling apps. Nothing to do with whitelisting in the context I've used it, 'noob proofing' homebrew. And of course, that post was written over 3 months ago. Didn't something significant happen between then and now, like umm...HBC 1.0.8? And didn't they, since then, start deciding what apps we 'should' be running by removing certain ones they thought we 'shouldn't' be running from their website? Granted, we can still obtain and run them, but they're sending a very clear fucking message. They'd like to see cIOS's as a thing of the past. And they've taken a small step in pushing that forward. FFS...did you really miss all of that? No, of course not. You're just another perfect example of the type of people I was describing. Again, their recent actions aren't 'anti-piracy' per se, otherwise they wouldn't still have all the emulators on their site, which with very few exceptions, are all being used with illegal ROMs. But you and the others keep trying to frame this in the only way you know how, which is as an 'anti-piracy' issue, I guess because you think you can 'win' that argument. You're doing all of us a great service.

BTW, thanks for pointing out the article. One thing it does do is put to rest the notion that TT couldn't, if they so chose, determine what apps can or cannot run on HBC. And another thing it does is clearly spell out their attempts to contact Nintendo to help them secure their system against piracy. So, hopefully that'll put an end to the 'conspiracy crap' suggesting it'd be very, very hard if not impossible to control what runs on HBC as well as the 'they don't care about piracy' nonsense.
QUOTE

We love the Wii as a platform and work hard to avoid contributing to the piracy problem...
TT

 

[alejolink11]

Should I update?
Im not sure, but Ive heard there have been problems with this.
Like CGF Loader and WiiMC no longer working and such.
Please recommend. And tell me of errors known to occur.

 

[elimist]

The current version is safe to install. I am still able to use cfg loader, priiloader, cios, and all the other stuff. Most people are just talking about what future updates may do.

 

[leic7]

The thing is in HOW you express your concerns. If it's some constructive doubts, why not, but if it's some conspiratorial crap, we won't stand it.

As you can see from the large number of pages this thread has, some of those comments have stirred up quite a chaos, and that's exactly what we're preventing to happen.

We must have vastly different definitions for "conspiratorial crap" and "chaos" then, 'cause I don't see any of those.

 

[nl255]

Should I update?
Im not sure, but Ive heard there have been problems with this.
Like CGF Loader and WiiMC no longer working and such.
Please recommend. And tell me of errors known to occur.

Well, WiiMC is (was?) known not to work if you have a DarkCorp'd IOS58. The same with the (currently unreleased) Priiloader installer. Install a clean IOS34, IOS58, and IOS61 and you should be fine.