Hacking Gateway update regarding rumors

[kyogre123]

I don't know if my post translated into Italian well (or if you even use a web translator), but what I was asking was what would happen if in the future, chinese knock-offs slap a printed Gateway sticker on an a whole bunch of 3DSlink carts or any type o other clone and sell them as official Gateways? The buyer has no Idea it's a knock-off and will intimately result in a brick for the user, and bad rep for Gateway.

I can't tell if you are serious or just trolling

You are trying too hard to make a fictional scenario here.

First of all, the cards are being sold without the launcher files; those have to be downloaded from their respectives official sites.

Secondly, if someone would sell Gateway knock offs and lie the user to avoid downloading the official firmware from GW's website and instead user a launcher provided via email, then it's not responsibility of Gateway anymore, someone could just send a pure bricker code "to make Gateway look bad".

And if you don't understand anything of the above, for the last time the issue is about the launcher files, not the flashcard used with the 3DS. Get that right.

 

[aXXo]

In so far as I know, you have to download and copy firmware for yourself regardless of which cart you're using or what the cart is claiming to be. It isn't pre-installed, and flash carts don't even come with microSD or SD cards unless you specify that in your order. So unless they also set up a website that looked exactly like Gateway's, with a similar address, and linked a modified launcher for you to download, it would be pretty hard to end up with a bricked console while believing that you were using only official Gateway hardware and firmware.

I can't tell if you are serious or just trolling

You are trying too hard to make a fictional scenario here.

First of all, the cards are being sold without the launcher files; those have to be downloaded from their respectives official sites.

Secondly, if someone would sell Gateway knock offs and lie the user to avoid downloading the official firmware from GW's website and instead user a launcher provided via email, then it's not responsibility of Gateway anymore, someone could just send a pure bricker code "to make Gateway look bad".

And if you don't understand anything of the above, for the last time the issue is about the launcher files, not the flashcard used with the 3DS. Get that right.

Well my scenario got shot down, I forgot about having to use Gateway's official website to get the launcher.dat , I guess my scenario would just result in a black screens for those buyers.

 

[temp1312]

Thanks guys for your responses.
That's right, we can currently distinguish which is original which is clone.
But, trust me, not every one would investigate thoroughly before purchase, not everyone knows how to check the hash codes of a file, not everyone knows what exactly they are doing.

This means, just like a using of nuclear bomb first or opened Pandora's box, every company could use this for protecting their works. This will change the whole flashcard thing(even the whole hacking field?) to be "looks like dangerous". No matter which side wins, victims will always be us - the users.

What I am concerning is every program has bugs, if this anti-clone mechanism malfunctions, it can also be triggered by GW users. Currently those GW users who are claiming encountered this seem to be treated as "liar" or "different case", who have solid evidences for this?? If you are a GW user and happened to be involved, who will believe you then?

GW will soon have its 2.0 final fw and has confidence that those clones can't catch up, so why GW team has to bother to do something so mean like this? Users are not enemies, those clones makers are...

 

[inuyasha555]

Thanks guys for your responses.
That's right, we can currently distinguish which is original which is clone.
But, trust me, not every one would investigate thoroughly before purchase, not everyone knows how to check the hash codes of a file, not everyone knows what exactly they are doing.

This means, just like a using of nuclear bomb or opened Pandora's box, every company could use this for protecting their works. This will change the whole flashcard thing(even the whole hacking field?) to be "looks like dangerous". No matter which side wins, victims will always be us - the users.

What I am concerning is every program has bugs, if this anti-clone mechanism malfunctions, it can also be triggered by GW users. Currently those GW users who are claiming encountered this seem to be treated as "liar" or "different case", who have solid evidences for this?? If you are a GW user and happened to be involved, who will believe you then?

GW will soon have its 2.0 final fw and has confidence that those clones can't catch up, so why GW team has to bother to do something so mean like this? Users are not enemies, those clones makers are...

Then you come up with a way to stop clone makers.

Save data corruption? Nope, they'll just tell the cloners and they'll fix it.
Messages saying buy gateway? Nope, they'll just tell the cloners and they'll fix it.
Brick the consoles? Woah there, this'll show clone makers we aren't messing around, You steal our work, you screw over your customers.

 

[someonewhodied]

So I THINK I get how it works now.

if Launcher checksum is correct
. Bricker active: False
else if Launcher checksum is incorrect
. exit menu
. . crash 3ds
. Bricker Active: True

if emunand exists: Load Emunand
else if no emunand partition exists: Load original FW with rom playback.
else if L is held, Load menu
if Bricker's status is true, then your 3ds is fukt.


so what would need to happen is that you would need pass off an incorrect checksum as correct in order to keep yourself safe from the bricker. Clone cards probably simply make the incorrect checksum skip the 3ds crashing, which means the bricker's status is still active.

 

[Ryukouki]

Thing is, there are so many other alternatives that Gateway could have taken. They could have caused the console to update itself, they could have done reboots every few seconds, but bricking a console is too far.

 

[someonewhodied]

Thing is, there are so many other alternatives that Gateway could have taken. They could have caused the console to update itself, they could have done reboots every few seconds, but bricking a console is too far.

Iunno, as long as they 100% protect their own users from the bricker code, I see no problem with it. Its not their fault other flashcart teams took their code despite them warning people to not use launchers other than their own.


Its like labeling a bottle of poison with a big biohazard sign and someone still taking it and drinking it.

 

[Ryukouki]

Iunno, as long as they 100% protect their own users from the bricker code, I see no problem with it. Its not their fault other flashcart teams took their code despite them warning people to not use launchers other than their own.


Its like labeling a bottle of poison with a big biohazard sign and someone still taking it and drinking it.

Oh no, don't get me wrong, from an economic standpoint, that's pretty ballsy to do. Part of me (begrudgingly, if I may...) has to tip my hat off to them for that. What gets me though is that some people never do the research and then they just buy whatever is cheap, closest to them, suits their needs, etc., and then one random day their console just gets fucked. I hear this and I think of someone like a grandparent or a parent even, buying one of these for a kid to shut them up on a long ass road trip, and suddenly WHY THE FUCK IS MY CONSOLE DEAD

...*mumble mumble* I am too selfless for my own good...*mumble*

 

[Xzi]

Thing is, there are so many other alternatives that Gateway could have taken. They could have caused the console to update itself, they could have done reboots every few seconds, but bricking a console is too far.

I agree, it's quite draconian. Still, it's possible that they couldn't find another solution via what was possible with the code they had. Maybe they came across this bricking code when working to develop that feature which would stop unintentional updates, and simply decided to implement it as their copy protection. That way they wouldn't have to spend a whole of time working on something else that wouldn't necessarily get the job done, and they could dedicate that time to their next firmware release instead.

 

[inuyasha555]

I agree, it's quite draconian. Still, it's possible that they couldn't find another solution via what was possible with the code they had. Maybe they came across this bricking code when working to develop that feature which would stop unintentional updates, and simply decided to implement it as their copy protection. That way they wouldn't have to spend a whole of time working on something else that wouldn't necessarily get the job done, and they could dedicate that time to their next firmware release instead.

Updating the console though wouldn't of been that hard. Spoof the letters in front of the version so clone users think they're safe to update but are actually updating the real NAND. There are alternatives to bricking consoles, especially to the point that you can't even flash a NAND backup.

 

[temp1312]

Then you come up with a way to stop clone makers.

Save data corruption? Nope, they'll just tell the cloners and they'll fix it.
Messages saying buy gateway? Nope, they'll just tell the cloners and they'll fix it.
Brick the consoles? Woah there, this'll show clone makers we aren't messing around, You steal our work, you screw over your customers.

Well, that's GW's job not ours.
They want to protect their job, that's totally understandable, the means is so merciless, victims even can't restore by regular hard mod?!
They have excellent product, they could attract people by positive things.

 

[Xzi]

Updating the console though wouldn't of been that hard. Spoof the letters in front of the version so clone users think they're safe to update but are actually updating the real NAND. There are alternatives to bricking consoles, especially to the point that you can't even flash a NAND backup.

I could be wrong about this, but that would require editing the sysNAND, which could take quite a lot of time and resources. As could forcing a sysNAND update via emuNAND. Far be it for me to speak for Gateway, but I'm not sure they would even know how to go about coding something like that.

 

[Xzi]

Well, that's GW's job not ours.
They want to protect their job, that's totally understandable, the means is so merciless, victims even can't restore by regular hard mod?!
They have excellent product, they could attract people by positive things.

That's not really the issue from their perspective. Yeah, they have a solid product. Which is being copied point for point by others, then sold off as original by those others. Gateway doesn't see a cent from those sales, despite the fact that it's their product being sold.

But again, I agree that their methods were too harsh, despite their desired result coming to fruition.

 

[temp1312]

Oh no, don't get me wrong, from an economic standpoint, that's pretty ballsy to do. Part of me (begrudgingly, if I may...) has to tip my hat off to them for that. What gets me though is that some people never do the research and then they just buy whatever is cheap, closest to them, suits their needs, etc., and then one random day their console just gets fucked. I hear this and I think of someone like a grandparent or a parent even, buying one of these for a kid to shut them up on a long ass road trip, and suddenly WHY THE FUCK IS MY CONSOLE DEAD

...*mumble mumble* I am too selfless for my own good...*mumble*

Exactly, those people might need a lesson to learn "research before buying" but not a fatal blow. They could become GW's potential customers.
It's time for GW team to release the cure.

 

[someonewhodied]

Personally if it were me, I'd program the anti-copying to go to a screen where the 3ds was in a technically "permabricked" mode, but have a checker so that if a legit GW3ds were inserted, the brick would undo itself (the brick being programming the 3ds to believe that the nand is 0 bytes, or nonexistent whether or not its intact, and the fix being fixing the read length on the nand).
However, if the 3ds would be turned off, the 3ds would be actually permabricked due to the fixable state in that screen being lost when the 3ds is turned off.

That would force clone buyers to buy a GW3ds immedately, instantly boosting sales, while keeping legit users safe, even if they do accidentally brick themselves, due to having access to a legit GW3ds card.

 

[Lunai]

Let's just put it at: If gateway made a way to block clones, obviously clones would looked make a fix.
Now let's say someonewhodied's suggestion actually worked.
Wouldn't the clones just make their own gateways, rename it, and ask people to purchase the unbricking card?

 

[someonewhodied]

Let's just put it at: If gateway made a way to block clones, obviously clones would looked make a fix.
Now let's say someonewhodied's suggestion actually worked.
Wouldn't the clones just make their own gateways, rename it, and ask people to purchase the unbricking card?

That would still prevent rom playback as when they try to load the launcher again, it would rebrick the system again. You would need a 1:1 clone of the gateway's card.

Of course i doubt the 3ds is capable of my suggestion, its just the ideal situation.

 

[nervx]

if the clone protection is true then I understand why it exists. however I think gateway could have done a better job with it. instead of bricking systems they should just have games randomly crash and delete saves. make the user experience so annoying that the user either gives up on flash carts or turns to gateway for a solid experience. this way only the clone makers are harmed. having brick code puts legit customers at risk and sours potential buyers that originally purchased a clone.

 

[T Link7]

I like that the company which exists to sell devices that can only play pirated software is complaining about other people stealing their ''hard work'' and making money from it...

 

[someonewhodied]

I like that the company which exists to sell devices that can only play pirated software is complaining about other people stealing their ''hard work'' and making money from it...

They aren't complaining at all though. All they are doing is adding protection. Just like nintendo never acknowledges flashcarts and roms but games have anti-piracy.