Hacking DSTT OS is too slow for numerous files!

neogba

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
156
Trophies
0
XP
74
Country
United States
The DSTT (firmware OS or hardware) can not read fast with FAT32. HC FAT32(only) drives big enough to hold more games are currently much to slow. They are not comfortable to select; as with FAT (VFAT16) on 4GB or less cards.

Plus, trying to sort them on a computer (in reader) can trash your drive!

We need faster reading of the flash while inside the DSTT when high capacity (microSDHC) flash is used.

My flash is an HC, Class 6 (SD 2.0 rating) and I've verified faster reading and writing but not when in the DSTT.

The menu has terrible lag. With 60 files, it's a drag.

Windows XP updated and with SDHC hotfixes still gives errors and bombs on SDHC flash transfers. Kubuntu works great but not with the DSTT included "HC" reader.

Note: An SD only reader will not work at all with a SDHC card but the new (select) SDHC readers do all (just not on Windows).
 

twit21

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
181
Trophies
0
Age
46
Location
Anchorage, AK
XP
164
Country
United States
Have you tried it with YSMenu? Because if that also lags with FAT32 SDHC, then you're up a creek because it's most likely a hardware limitation.

To clarify: unlike a PC, the NDS doesn't have a whole lot of RAM to pre-cache file names into. This means every time you go to scroll that menu, the NDS has to read the card through the DSTT.
 

neogba

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
156
Trophies
0
XP
74
Country
United States
I did try YSMenu and it's promising and nice to see.

I found it spartan (we use Neon Mario skin on the DSTT) but that will get better.

I think it had a bug though and froze up. I haven't had that problem with the DSTT OS.

I like the speed of the DSTT OS (FAT16).

I sure hope the DSTT OS can be improved for FAT32 speed because otherwise, its practical limit is with 4GB flash (maybe 2GB if I can't get my 4GB stabilized with VFAT16).

I have finally achieved space, speed and stability with my 4GB, FAT16 and new USB SDHC reader; if I keep it off Windows (on Kubuntu) and do not try to "fatsort" the files off of the DSTT. At least for short term tests.

GREAT UPDATE:
I found... http://www.jetman.dircon.co.uk/software/foldersort.html and it is a Windows (98) program which I actually installed and used in Kubuntu by "WINE" which is also easy to install in Kubuntu's control like panel (Click System Settings > Advanced). Foldersort work great (and didn't muck up my drive!) Now everything I wanted sorted is done and the files I wanted at the end were put on last (GBA Loader, SNES emulator).
 

twit21

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
181
Trophies
0
Age
46
Location
Anchorage, AK
XP
164
Country
United States
To clarify: unlike a PC, the NDS doesn't have a whole lot of RAM to pre-cache file names into. This means every time you go to scroll that menu, the NDS has to read the card through the DSTT.

Most other cards do it fine. This is just poor coding on the DSTT Team's part.

But do they do it while showing the game's icon along with several other OS-related icons? There's some processing there as well. I'm not saying it isn't poor coding, I'm just saying there may well be a good reason for this problem. For all its advances over FAT16, the FAT32 file system is pretty clunky. It just doesn't surprise me that it would slow down the menu reading like that, hell it's slower just to write to it from my PC when it's formatted FAT32.
 

neogba

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
156
Trophies
0
XP
74
Country
United States
1. It still needs to be fixed.

2. I wonder if turning off all the icon speeds it up that much? (I'm back to speedy FAT = VFAT16 now(4GB too). I think my problem was both the DDTT Included Reader (DIR, LOL) and Win XP with SDHC hotfix betas.

(Let's see, next Tue is patch day at MS. Maybe a MS SDHC update that works, will be in there.(Oh! I hate the MS process; compared to Kubuntu. Y'all really should try it.)

So who's got FAT32, turned off icons and a stopwatch?

You have to understand. I'm the type, that when I dial the phone, by the time I put it to my ear, I hear the last 3 tones I pressed. I'm faster than the buffer in most phones. So when I say it's snappy, It's snappy! I can hold down the down arrow on the D-pad and it scrolls nicely. I can just barley see the icon enough to pick one.

With Fat32 it was pause jerking like a epileptic. Not controllable and unacceptable. I'd say FAT32 would bother even good; patient people.
biggrin.gif


I'm telling you, my FAT16 and class 6 is down right snappy. If I touch the bottom of the scroll bar (before the arrow) it goes to the bottom of 59 files and to the (un-sorted) GBA loader instantly!
yaynds.gif
 

neogba

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
156
Trophies
0
XP
74
Country
United States
Yeah that's a better test but you can un-select the items that cause the icons to be displayed. i just mean the little ones, not the game icon.
 

neogba

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
156
Trophies
0
XP
74
Country
United States
So does anyone know if they are working on a FAT32 speed-up?

I'd say it's critical for greater than 4GB Flash cards.
 

retiredjerk

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2006
Messages
251
Trophies
0
XP
70
Country
im using a 8GB sandisck using Fat32 and i dont experience any lagginess when scrolling. Sure it doesnt scroll as fast as the R4 but its not terribly slow either. im using vista and i am not using the DSTT Usb device since it sucks.
 

neogba

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
156
Trophies
0
XP
74
Country
United States
I thought FAT16 was limited to 2GB.
You would think so, but they changed it when they went to Vfat(16) and FAT32 is "vfatish" too. That's why you can do long file names with (V)FAT(16).

Basically the special setting for 4GB (V)FAT(16) is the only setting that yields 4GB. Your device still may not do 4GB and some 4GB flash cards are not SDHC (The SD 2.0 standard). They may still work though.

In windows, you have to put in the format command in on the command line. Else, use a flash drive format program such as HP's. I did mine in Kubuntu.

Bottom line is with 4GB you have a choice and (V)FAT(16) is faster. Anything below is better as (V)FAT(16) too (and can still be fast but it's not the norm). Anything over 4GB has to be FAT32 (for the DSTT) and there may be a slow and jerky problem. (V)FAT32 has more overhead.

Class 6 is also part od the SD 2.0 spec and it means Write speeds (what you want) are a minimum of 6MBs. I find it to be a real and accurate measure. Reads speeds are usually faster than write and the average speeds I am seeing (on Kubuntu and with USB 2.0) and a select and required HC reader is about 20MBs read, 15MBs Write AVERAGES.
 

neogba

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
156
Trophies
0
XP
74
Country
United States
I thought FAT16 was limited to 2GB.
You would think so, but they changed it when they went to Vfat(16) and made FAT32 which is "vfatish" too. That's why you can do long file names with (V)FAT(16). Remember Win95 pre OSR2? Just do not put everything into the root (base) folder because there's a FAT16 limit on the number of files. Limiting to 2GB might be a bit more compatible with some systems. Yet, I don't think dual partitions are supported by the DSTT. (Something to think about, for the development team though.)

Basically, the special format setting (largest cluster size) for 4GB and the faster (V)FAT(16) is the one and only setting that yields 4GB. Your (non-DSTT) device still may not do 4GB and some 4GB flash cards are not SDHC (The SD 2.0 standard). They may still work though.

In Windows XP, you have to put in the format command in on the command line. Else, use a flash drive format program such as HP's. I did the format in Kubuntu. XP is not doing well with HC (High Capacity protocol) cards for me, but Kubuntu is.

Bottom line is, with 4GB you have a choice and (V)FAT(16) is faster. Anything below (1GB , 2GB cards) are best formatted as (V)FAT(16) too (and can still be fast but it's not the norm). Anything over 4GB has to be FAT32 (for the DSTT) and there may be a slow and jerky menu problem. (V)FAT32 has more overhead.

4GB flash with (Class 6) MicrosSDHC (at about $30 currently) is arguably the place to start. You will need a good HC reader (my DSTT included MicroSDHC "reader" does not work, with slow downs, kick outs and corruption. Very time wasting. It would be better if it had not worked at all.)

Class 6 is also part of the SD 2.0 spec and it means Write speeds (what you want) are a minimum of 6MBs. I find it to be a real and accurate measure. Reads speeds are usually faster than write and the average speeds I am seeing (on Kubuntu and with USB 2.0) and a select and required HC reader is about 20MBs read, 15MBs Write AVERAGES.
 

neogba

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
156
Trophies
0
XP
74
Country
United States
what's the command to format 4GB with VFAT16 under windows ?


If your flash drive were "g:", I think it is:
QUOTEformat g: /FS:FAT
on the command line for (V)FAT16. On 4GB it will default to the one and only allocation that yields 4GB with (V) FAT (16). The others format methods default to (V)FAT32.

You could also use a flash drive format program like HPs.

Oh, do not turn your DS off while it is writing or it will corrupt the FAT system. You will have to repair it and you may have to restore some files, from backup. Always have 2 backups..
 

tbgtbg

Shaking the ring ropes up in the sky
Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
1,999
Trophies
1
XP
1,034
Country
United States
BDBARNES said:
YES ,HOW MANY GAMES CAN a DSTT 4 GB HOLD MINIMUM & MAX?

1. Depends on how big the games are.

2. There was no reason to bump this old thread to ask that fairly unrelated question.

3. ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED SHOUTING AND/OR RUDE; PLEASE USE LOWERCASE WHEN POSSIBLE.
 

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    So does that mean your date was not good? It burns now?
    +2
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Got two new stds in one night
    +1
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    Giggity
    +1
  • The Catboy @ The Catboy:
    I don't bite! Minus the times when I did bite
  • The Catboy @ The Catboy:
    Like 5 minutes ago
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Billie needs her lunch
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Ffs papa brought back the cheeseburger pizza it's like the only decent pie they had since the 80s
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    I'm not a fan of papa johns, but that does sound good. We hardly order out pizza, I like making my own, but when we do its donatoes
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    I get them like once every two months anymore
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Just because it's half a mile from where I live
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    Request next time you order, that Shaq deliver it to you
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    I want him to buy me a chain also
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Open it right next to the one we have
    +1
  • BakerMan @ BakerMan:
    guys should i make a new thread and just count the amount of posts until kyle, luke or leo joins the thread for fun?
  • BakerMan @ BakerMan:
    kyle's fine, just waiting for that wario joke

    luke and leo though, they yap until the thread's enjoyability is about halved
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Leo is Luke's alterego when he gets hard
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    Luke is gone, he got banned. And I'm surprised Leo hasn't yet
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Subway was actually pretty decent tonight
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    Wut you get, a seafood and psi salad sub
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Psi had my footlong meatball special
    +1
  • PandaPandel @ PandaPandel:
    i want a meatball sandwich
    now
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Gay
  • BigOnYa @ BigOnYa:
    Bout time you came out and admitted it
    +1
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Bigonya talks to himself often
    +1
  • btei @ btei:
    papa johns makes me SHIT
    btei @ btei: papa johns makes me SHIT