Homebrew [Discussion] Could we somehow inject NDS roms into 3DS games?

[gabe_derp]

I know, I know, this is probably a very stupid question.

But, consider the following. Imagine if there was a program for your computer that built a .cia file of a modded 3DS game. The moddded 3DS game in theory, would load a NDS game instead of the actual game itself.

Like, think ARM9loaderhax for a 3DS game. Milliseconds into booting, some type of mod takes over the booting process to force the game to boot a Nintendo DS game.

I don't know if that sounds insanely stupid towards a developer, but if this was in theory possible, think of the endless possibilities!

I did try looking up what code is involved when a 3DS game boots up, but I couldn't find anything for the life of me. So this is just one of those "conspiracy theory" posts, I guess.

The only idea I could think of this being possible, was, if some 3DS game was already possible of playing a NDS game. Is there any game thay can do this? Like, a game that has a NDS demo built within the game itself? (ala the style of SSB masterpieces) If some game had a NDS demo in it, maybe we could mod the game to automatically play the "demo" upon boot, but have it play an injected NDS rom. I don't know, this is only my idea of this somehow being possible.

Are there any devolopers that could provide insight to the subject? This might be a rather interesting discussion.

P.S.: Yes, I know about the current project of running NDS roms off the SD Cards natively. But, I've heard that it might not be to the same levels of a flashcart in terms of stability.

 

[GerbilSoft]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: There are no 3DS titles with embedded Nintendo DS games. It's simply not doable.

Alternate long answer: What exactly would you do with a DS ROM image in 3DS mode?

 

[Mikemk]

Grrr
Not another of these threads.

@OP: Like, say, DSiWare?

 

[Sketchy1]

I know, I know, this is probably a very stupid question.

But, consider the following. Imagine if there was a program for your computer that built a .cia file of a modded 3DS game. The moddded 3DS game in theory, would load a NDS game instead of the actual game itself.

Like, think ARM9loaderhax for a 3DS game. Milliseconds into booting, some type of mod takes over the booting process to force the game to boot a Nintendo DS game.

I don't know if that sounds insanely stupid towards a developer, but if this was in theory possible, think of the endless possibilities!

I did try looking up what code is involved when a 3DS game boots up, but I couldn't find anything for the life of me. So this is just one of those "conspiracy theory" posts, I guess.

The only idea I could think of this being possible, was, if some 3DS game was already possible of playing a NDS game. Is there any game thay can do this? Like, a game that has a NDS demo built within the game itself? (ala the style of SSB masterpieces) If some game had a NDS demo in it, maybe we could mod the game to automatically play the "demo" upon boot, but have it play an injected NDS rom. I don't know, this is only my idea of this somehow being possible.

Are there any devolopers that could provide insight to the subject? This might be a rather interesting discussion.

P.S.: Yes, I know about the current project of running NDS roms off the SD Cards natively. But, I've heard that it might not be to the same levels of a flashcart in terms of stability.

Twl loader exists now.
But ofc, very buggy and can't save atm. Best your gonna get without a flashcard for right now

 

[Blue]

@OP: Like, say, DSiWare?

DS games like Wario Touched when put on the 3DS had the source compiled into a DSi Ware and you can't inject DS games into DSi Ware. You would need a DS VC like the Wii U.

 

[Giodude]

The thing is, if you think about what you're saying... We pretty much already do that. Twloader is a 3ds application that launches into a ds rom. The thing is though, no matter how you actually get to the rom, you need to patch it to read from the sd card, which takes a long time to perfect.

 

[metroid maniac]

You're basically just writing nonsense here.
If things worked how you think they worked, no developer would have invested the time and effort it's taken to develop nds-bootstrap.

 

[Mikemk]

DS games like Wario Touched when put on the 3DS had the source compiled into a DSi Ware and you can't inject DS games into DSi Ware. You would need a DS VC like the Wii U.

You can once nds-bootstrap-loader is finished, you just won't want to because of the whole ~100MB TWL_NAND thing

 

[elBenyo]

Remember when clone NDS cards flooded the market and homebrews had to be written per card because the protocols used by cards to write to microSD were coded differently? The solution was DLDI, a dynamic layer that could be easily patched per card, but homebrew had to be built with it in mind. We are at this doorstep again. The 3DS can do this with a flash cart, but not its internal SD card. So we must reinvent DLDI for the 3DS's NDS mode to try to achieve this with the bootstrap alone.

 

[metroid maniac]

Remember when clone NDS cards flooded the market and homebrews had to be written per card because the protocols used by cards to write to microSD were coded differently? The solution was DLDI, a dynamic layer that could be easily patched per card, but homebrew had to be built with it in mind. We are at this doorstep again. The 3DS can do this with a flash cart, but not its internal SD card. So we must reinvent DLDI for the 3DS's NDS mode to try to achieve this with the bootstrap alone.

DLDI patches are just for homebrew. DLDI has nothing to do with playing retail roms.

 

[elBenyo]

DLDI patches are just for homebrew. DLDI has nothing to do with playing retail roms.

I was using the example of a DLDI patch. For example, A fix needed in a universal way that cannot be universally applied.

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I feel like we might get a solution like GBArunner2 has. One save type will be supported and other NDS Roms will need to be converted into said save type, like GBA games for GBArunner.