Hacking Can we all agree that no one should use the OTPless install for now?

[Ray2R]

This is why I'm still using ReiNand when I can upgrade to AL9H or whatever it's called. But why would I do that when I've already got everything set up. Chance of bricking.

 

[JCCG1989]

I'll fail 2 times and spread shit about not using OTPLess installation, I'll ignore all the people who followed the guide and were sucessful, fuck off OP.

 

[JCCG1989]

I'll fail 2 times and spread shit about not using OTPLess installation, I'll ignore all the people who followed the guide and were sucessful, fuck off OP.

 

[Kioku]

Where was this question when A9lh was first released? Jesus...

 

[Deleted User]

This is why I'm still using ReiNand when I can upgrade to AL9H or whatever it's called. But why would I do that when I've already got everything set up. Chance of bricking.

The chance of bricking is so extremely low, though.
You also have a slight chance of bricking every time you turn on your 3DS, modified or not.

 

[Quantumcat]

I used the OTPless method seemingly by mistake and the console is fine. I think any bricks caused by using this method are human error.

They were not caused by human error. They were caused by an SD card that was corrupted in some way (unknown to the user). It was a bug, which had been fixed apparently.

 

[Kioku]

They were not caused by human error. They were caused by an SD card that was corrupted in some way (unknown to the user). It was a bug, which had been fixed apparently.

User error. Card corruption happens. That is true. However, to exempt the user from blame for not taking the proper precautions? It just doesn't work.

 

[Geezerdorf]

I've been hearing that such mistakes in the OTP-less method were human mistakes. Some say they were bad mini sds, some said that they were another issues.
Can anybody actually pinpoint the exact mistake about those two problems? I recently made the OTP-less method and everything's fine.

I'm quite curious to know the reason for those two cases; as of now, they seem to be VERY specific to happen.

ADDENDUM: Seems that my answer was silently 'd by @Quantumcat and @Memoir.
If that was the reason, then there's nothing to worry about so much, except to check your memory cards. That's a relief!

Memory corruption can happen at any moment. It happened to me when i tried to downgrade an o3DS a year ago, while downgrading (in the dark days of not having sysupdater this safe for downgrades).

 

[Quantumcat]

User error. Card corruption happens. That is true. However, to exempt the user from blame for not taking the proper precautions? It just doesn't work.

In the 12 months that a9lh had existed, there has not been a brick caused by a corrupted SD card. There is nothing in the guide saying to watch out for this. Probably 99% of people with fake SD cards are unaware (otherwise they wouldn't sell so well).
What if you got a brick caused by having a benign virus on your computer, or a brick because you had an emuNAND from another console on your SD card or a brick because you unplugged the console while it was processing something? There are hundreds of things you can imagine that could possibly cause a brick (not knowing how all the programs work). You can't possibly be expected to account for all of them. Calling this user error is completely unfair.
It was a bug which was not caught during testing (because it only affected an uncommon case) which is now fixed.

 

[Kioku]

In the 12 months that a9lh had existed, there has not been a brick caused by a corrupted SD card. There is nothing in the guide saying to watch out for this. Probably 99% of people with fake SD cards are unaware (otherwise they wouldn't sell so well).
What if you got a brick caused by having a benign virus on your computer, or a brick because you had an emuNAND from another console on your SD card or a brick because you unplugged the console while it was processing something? There are hundreds of things you can imagine that could possibly cause a brick (not knowing how all the programs work). You can't possibly be expected to account for all of them. Calling this user error is completely unfair.
It was a bug which was not caught during testing (because it only affected an uncommon case) which is now fixed.

Human ignorance is still user error. I'm not saying that the only one to blame will be the victim. I'm just saying that mistakes happen. Taking the proper precautions will greatly lessen the chance of an issue. It's actually almost always recommended to use a brand new card, if possible.

If it happened to me, I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the app. I wouldn't blame it on the card. I'd blame myself for not being careful.

 

[Quantumcat]

I've been hearing that such mistakes in the OTP-less method were human mistakes. Some say they were bad mini sds, some said that they were another issues.
Can anybody actually pinpoint the exact mistake about those two problems? I recently made the OTP-less method and everything's fine.

I'm quite curious to know the reason for those two cases; as of now, they seem to be VERY specific to happen.

From the release page :

v2.5.1

AuroraWright released this 4 days ago

• SD card is no longer initialized after the reboot during OTPless installs (might fix corner case bricks where the SD is corrupted)
• stage payloads are now SHA-256 verified with matching .sha files. If either hash file is missing a button combo needs to be entered to continue installing
• Minor cleanups

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Human ignorance is still user error. I'm not saying that the only one to blame will be the victim. I'm just saying that mistakes happen. Taking the proper precautions will greatly lessen the chance of an issue. It's actually almost always recommended to use a brand new card, if possible.

If it happened to me, I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the app. I wouldn't blame it on the card. I'd blame myself for not being careful.

I'm saying there are hundreds of possible precautions you can take. It is unfair to expect a user to take them all. Before you installed a9lh did you run your card through H2testw? You could easily have fallen victim also if not. Did you run a virus check on your computer? Did you hash test all the files copied over to ensure they were good copies? Did you hash test against hashes on the Web to ensure the download came across whole? Did you ensure there were no files left over on your SD card from anything else? Did you research to see if particular brand of SD cards caused bricks?

If you did not do everything in this list and more things I haven't thought of which are not documented but you needed enough imagination to think of, then you have no right to tell those two users it was their fault they got bricked.

 

[Kioku]

From the release page :



--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


I'm saying there are hundreds of possible precautions you can take. It is unfair to expect a user to take them all. Before you installed a9lh did you run your card through H2testw? You could easily have fallen victim also if not. Did you run a virus check on your computer? Did you hash test all the files copied over to ensure they were good copies? Did you hash test against hashes on the Web to ensure the download came across whole? Did you ensure there were no files left over on your SD card from anything else? Did you research to see if particular brand of SD cards caused bricks?

If you did not do everything in this list and more things I haven't thought of which are not documented but you needed enough imagination to think of, then you have no right to tell those two users it was their fault they got bricked.

You're God damn right I did. You're messing with nand of the device and then some. If you fail to take even the most basic of precautions, it's USER ERROR. Virus scans should be regular, if not? User error. If you don't check the hashes? User error. To everything else? USER ERROR

If you choose to just jump right in and mess with any device like this? Then you've no one to blame but yourself if something bad happens. I'm a firm believer in asking questions.

Granted, if the application fails and is known to fail almost extensiely? Then no, it's not user error. That's just one of many possible scenarios.

 

[Quantumcat]

You're God damn right I did. You're messing with nand of the device and then some. If you fail to take even the most basic of precautions, it's USER ERROR. Virus scans should be regular, if not? User error. If you don't check the hashes? User error. To everything else? USER ERROR

What if your SD card corrupted part way through the process and bricked you? Is that your fault?

No. It was a bug. It got fixed. If it was expected behaviour it wouldn't have been fixed.

From the release page:

might fix corner case bricks where the SD is corrupted

 

[enarky]

Look at that, the GBATemp special olympics are open again.

 

[RemixDeluxe]

If your gonna cheap out on an SD card for your $200+ system I'd say the fault is on the user. You get what you pay for.

 

[annson24]

What if your SD card corrupted part way through the process and bricked you? Is that your fault?

No. It was a bug. It got fixed. If it was expected behaviour it wouldn't have been fixed.

From the release page:

Yeah. Those two bricks was just horrible luck imo. SD card failed on them(if that really was the cause) in the wrong placa and in the wrong time. No one could've anticipated that, even in the testing phase the chance of your card failing just when you're about to use the otpless installer is just a grain of sand in the shore.

My condolences to the two people who bricked. Hope you guys get your 3dses hardmodded at a low price. Your bricks helped with the stability of the installer, I thank you for that...and, uhm, sorry.

Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk

 

[Arras]

If your gonna cheap out on an SD card for your $200+ system I'd say the fault is on the user. You get what you pay for.

Except they said earlier in this thread it had nothing to do with the SD being fake or whatever, since they had used the same card to install to multiple n3DSes flawlessly before.

 

[trinhno]

LOL, people here are so quick to blame the users for bricking. The chance is abysmal but not a big fat ZERO like someone said. Software development is always full of unforeseen circumstances, especially when you're not knowing a lot about the environment like this. I'm aware of the risk involved and I knew the signs of a brick. I didn't come here to cry about it. I reported just to let other people know. I knew how to hard mod and recovered just fine.

Anyway, if Aurora didn't think my report is anywhere near credible, she wouldn't have changed the code. Re-initializing the SD card after the reboot in 9.2 (the screen flash that you see) may have made it unable to read the card again and write rubbish to NAND causing the brick. Nothing to do with my card, it works before and after the brick (you'd know if you bother reading my post). Still, if you think you are better than Aurora then I'd like to see some credentials and/or your knowledge of how the process and program work.

I'd really like to see what you'd do if that wasn't fix in the software and it happens to you. Would you calmly take out your soldering iron and hard mod like I did or would you come here and cry because you followed the guide to the letter and didn't have a NAND backup?

Still my recommendation is to use this method, so no need to argue much. Just less of that hostility and cynicism please.

 

[Temptress Cerise]

I'd really like to see what you'd do if that wasn't fix in the software and it happens to you. Would you calmly take out your soldering iron and hard mod like I did or would you come here and cry because you followed the guide to the letter and didn't have a NAND backup?

Well, I mean, the guide still makes N3DS users make a NAND backup once they are on 9.0-9.2. If anything, users who bricked and didn't make that NAND backup would def lose all credibility for failing to make that NAND backup as instructed.

However, I get the idea of what you are trying to say, and while it sucks it happened to you, I am thankful it was reported and fixed.

 

[nechigawara]

If it's happens to me, I think i'm gonna cry since I just bought this brand new N3DS while the guide just change to OTPless.
And, the nearest pro I can ask for hardmod is 2 countrys away.....

 

[JayArRosario]

Just make sure you always have a NAND backup. When bad luck strikes you, you would still have a chance to be saved