Gaming Are flashcarts illegal?

[Bluelaserman]

Why would it matter? I highly doubt you bought the Flashcart for the sole purpose of running homebrew. You also most likely do more illegal things (Movies, Music and Games)

Some people actually do, I know a good dozen or so.

You're saying that those people have NEVER put a rom onto their Flashcart?

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Why would it matter? I highly doubt you bought the Flashcart for the sole purpose of running homebrew. You also most likely do more illegal things (Movies, Music and Games)

Some people actually do, I know a good dozen or so.

You're saying that those people have NEVER put a rom onto their Flashcart?

I'm pretty sure that's what my post said.

 

[Bluelaserman]

Sure, and people buy large screen TVs to play with the large box.

 

[AcekardFan]

Sure, and people buy large screen TVs to play with the large box.

Look At Spongebob

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Sure, and people buy large screen TVs to play with the large box.

I have a few theories. I'm either right, or I'm damn close, so let me know:

A) You can't believe that people are still left in the world that do not steal.
B) You don't want to believe that they aren't pirates because you're one yourself.
C) You don't think Homebrew is worth having a card in the first place.
D) You're too busy playing your pirated games to care.

or

E) You wouldn't believe the truth even if it was told to you.

 

[Bluelaserman]

I think you're being a little naive to believe that people are not pirates in some way. Music is the most common, then movies and then games. Even if people don't try to, they tend to accidentally do it via friends, home or work.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Ok let me ask you this. Don't think it would be stupid if they lied to me? Lets say they were downloading, ok? Hypothetically.

Now lets say I'm coming over. Or we're going to play some games. They would have to delete the stuff off of their flashcard, and off of their computer just for me not to see it. They're not tech savvy, so they can't exactly hide it in some obscure place.

So why would they do that, download it all over again, just to hide it from me? I'm not talking about internet friends, I'm talking about real life friends.

Then there are my aunts and uncles. A few of them bought flashcards but not for the downloading of games. Because they believe it's wrong. They bought it for their children, so I just hooked them up with homebrew games pre-installed. Like I said, this isn't the regular "I'M INNOCENT! IT'S WRONG [i'm actually lying though.]" No. This is "No. These people made it, and I don't want to be a criminal." Like it's one of the house rules. They don't allow illegal downloading.

And you're basing your "lol sure" off of what? Nothing, you just don't want to believe it. Yet I know these people in real life.

 

[Bluelaserman]

I could go on, but its getting off topic and neither of us will back down. I respect your views but don't agree with them. If you REALLY want to continue this, PM me...

 

[Hells Malice]

To be honest, not pirating is a waste of time and money.
I'll buy anything I wish to support, but there are a lot of things these days not worth purchasing, or at least, not worth paying as much as they initially cost.

Flashcarts aren't illegal, they enable homebrew and are usually sold for that purpose only. They get illegal if they advertise being able to play roms/backups.

Flashcarts are legal devices used illegally by almost everyone. The small few that only use 'em for homebrew are both naive and insane.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Flashcarts are legal devices used illegally by almost everyone. The small few that only use 'em for homebrew are both naive and insane.

Because they believe doing something illegal is wrong and not cool?

 

[redact]

First, that's software. Second, this is the reason that "firmware" is distributed from offshore servers, and not included on a NAND chip on the cart. Third, this only applies to DSi compatible carts. Thus the carts themselves are not illegal.

Thank you and have a nice day.

even those not updated for 1.4.1 or 1.4 use copyrighted code so please shut up

before ak2i used stormbreaker to bypass 1.4.1,
it used danny phantom to bypass 1.4, before it did that,
it used fifa 06 to bypass orig fw (1.1, 1.2 and 1.3)

similar story for all other carts..
ezvi used Tak for 1.1/1.2/1.3
dstti used Fish Tycoon for 1.1/1.2/1.3

want a source? well i don't need to provide one but i will anyway.. http://gbatemp.net/t126426-dstti-review?vi...t&p=1672817

edit: cyclos started coming shipped completely blank at some point but w/e because i was talking about dsi cards, not ds lite/phat ones..

edit2: this edit may be wrong but didn't the ds lite/phat only cards contain like a copyrighted nintendo logo or sth (like the logo gbc roms would contain that slid down before making the *ding* noise) in order to boot? if i'm remembering right then that would make all cards technically illegal except the later cyclos which were shipped blank..

 

[Vulpes Abnocto]

In my opinion saying a flashcart is for homebrew is like saying a sex toy is for novelty purposes only.

At this point they're not illegal everywhere, but at this rate they eventually will be illegal in as many places as drugs are.
Maybe not everywhere, but pretty darn close.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

First, that's software. Second, this is the reason that "firmware" is distributed from offshore servers, and not included on a NAND chip on the cart. Third, this only applies to DSi compatible carts. Thus the carts themselves are not illegal.

Thank you and have a nice day.

even those not updated for 1.4.1 or 1.4 use copyrighted code so please shut up

before ak2i used stormbreaker to bypass 1.4.1,
it used danny phantom to bypass 1.4, before it did that,
it used fifa 06 to bypass orig fw (1.1, 1.2 and 1.3)

similar story for all other carts..
ezvi used Tak for 1.1/1.2/1.3
dstti used Fish Tycoon for 1.1/1.2/1.3

want a source? well i don't need to provide one but i will anyway..http://gbatemp.net/t126426-dstti-review?view=findpost&p=1672817

Wow dude, no need to tell him to shut up... bit rude.

 

[koji2009]

Some people are in denial here... even if shipped blank, many flashcarts are still illegal in many countries simply because they circumvent copy protection. In the US, this is technically illegal (as it pertains to the digital millenium copyright act).

The problem is that there was also a case where a judge stated that it was legal for anyone to keep a single backup of any digital medium for their own use...

Most countries have similar laws about circumventing copy protection, including the UK and the entire EU... and in most cases also have similar laws about being able to make legal backups.

Where does that really put things? All F'ed up... that's why it's very near impossible to persecute the individual... It's not just a matter of logistics, but also varied and contradicting copyright laws. It's much easier to say Lik-sang (for example) is mass selling devices to circumvent copy protection than say Mr. Bob is using a device to bypass copy protection to play non-copyrighted software.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Some people are in denial here... even if shipped blank, many flashcarts are still illegal in many countries simply because they circumvent copy protection. In the US, this is technically illegal (as it pertains to the digital millenium copyright act).

The problem is that there was also a case where a judge stated that it was legal for anyone to keep a single backup of any digital medium for their own use...

Most countries have similar laws about circumventing copy protection, including the UK and the entire EU... and in most cases also have similar laws about being able to make legal backups.

Where does that really put things? All F'ed up... that's why it's very near impossible to persecute the individual... It's not just a matter of logistics, but also varied and contradicting copyright laws. It's much easier to say Lik-sang (for example) is mass selling devices to circumvent copy protection than say Mr. Bob is using a device to bypass copy protection to play non-copyrighted software.

Well then I guess the answer to the topic is "depends on where you live"

 

[Uncle FEFL]

I could go on, but its getting off topic and neither of us will back down. I respect your views but don't agree with them. If you REALLY want to continue this, PM me...

What are you talking about? Or rather, do you know what you're talking about? All you're doing is accusing his friends and family of theft, which they aren't committing. He has actual ties with these people, providing the best proof possible, and you still think he's lying. That's just stupid.

Yes, people who don't steal exist. I know, I'm blown away too.

QUOTEFlashcarts are legal devices used illegally by almost everyone. The small few that only use 'em for homebrew are both naive and insane.

Ironically, this opinion is batshit insane.

Flashcards aren't legal everywhere.

Believe it or not, there's good homebrew out there, and many people buy their music and movies (movies later converted). Yeah, that's why a majority of people bought them in the first place, but not all.

Naive and insane, huh? There's so many ways to respond to that I'm not sure where to start. Let's start with this: on this particular belief, you're an idiot.

 

[Rydian]

US code, title 17, section 117

it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:
(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or
(2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.While number one appears to say you can't back up ROMs at all since you don't NEED to use a flash cart to play the game (since the game has to be working in order for you to dump it in the first place), there's "OR" at the end, indicating you have the right to back it up even if it's not an essential step as long as it's for archival purposes (meaning you can't dump a game and then sell the original).

The DMCA (Digital Mellinium Copyright Act) appears to say that bypassing DRM at all is illegal.

Circumvention of Technological Protection Measures
General approach
Article 11 of the WCT states:
Contracting Parties shall provide adequate legal protec-
tion and effective legal remedies against the circumven-
tion of effective technological measures that are used
by authors in connection with the exercise of their
rights under this Treaty or the Berne Convention and
that restrict acts, in respect of their works, which are
not authorized by the authors concerned or permitted
by law.
[..]
Section 103 of the DMCA adds a new chapter 12 to Title 17 of the U.S. Code.
And it adds a chapter 12 to title 17, which starts with... (I'll add emphasis.)
US Code, Title 17, Chapter 12

(a) Violations Regarding Circumvention of Technological Measures.—
(1)
(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. The prohibition contained in the preceding sentence shall take effect at the end of the 2-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this chapter.
(B) The prohibition contained in subparagraph (A) shall not apply to persons who are users of a copyrighted work which is in a particular class of works, if such persons are, or are likely to be in the succeeding 3-year period, adversely affected by virtue of such prohibition in their ability to make noninfringing uses of that particular class of works under this title, as determined under subparagraph ©.
© During the 2-year period described in subparagraph (A), and during each succeeding 3-year period, the Librarian of Congress, upon the recommendation of the Register of Copyrights, who shall consult with the Assistant Secretary for Communications and Information of the Department of Commerce and report and comment on his or her views in making such recommendation, shall make the determination in a rulemaking proceeding for purposes of subparagraph (B) of whether persons who are users of a copyrighted work are, or are likely to be in the succeeding 3-year period, adversely affected by the prohibition under subparagraph (A) in their ability to make noninfringing uses under this title of a particular class of copyrighted works.

It then lists criteria that is taken into consideration (which is often stated with claims of "fair use").
QUOTE

In conducting such rulemaking, the Librarian shall examine—
(i) the availability for use of copyrighted works;
(ii) the availability for use of works for nonprofit archival, preservation, and educational purposes;
(iii) the impact that the prohibition on the circumvention of technological measures applied to copyrighted works has on criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research;
(iv) the effect of circumvention of technological measures on the market for or value of copyrighted works; and
(v) such other factors as the Librarian considers appropriate.
(D) The Librarian shall publish any class of copyrighted works for which the Librarian has determined, pursuant to the rulemaking conducted under subparagraph ©, that noninfringing uses by persons who are users of a copyrighted work are, or are likely to be, adversely affected, and the prohibition contained in subparagraph (A) shall not apply to such users with respect to such class of works for the ensuing 3-year period.

tl;dr:It all comes down to something like this.

"Breaking DRM is illegal, but we realize a global ban on it would suck, so we'll make it a global ban and let The Librarian Of Congress review how things are in the world every few years and lay out specific exceptions where it's found that enforcing DRM is actually hurtful to the people overall instead of beneficial."

The Librarian Of Congress's most recent ruling on the matter (made July 26th, 2010) lays out specific situations that used to be illegal as not illegal. To save you more legalese, I'll list then in layman's terms.

1 - Bypassing CSS on DVDs (meaning ripping commercial discs) when it's either for educational purposes, or you're not going to gain any money from the derivative work (such as AMVs).
2+3 - Jailbreaking/rooting/unlocking phones (though big companies can still bully/intimidate stores into not selling them).
4 - Hacking/cracking video games for security testing.
5 - Emulating/bypassing dongles (USB devices mostly) used as keys to protect/unlock stuff, if the dongles are no longer being produced or reasonably available.
6 - Removing protection on ebooks when there's not an unprotected version available.


EDIT: Typo.
EDIT2: Wether a flash cart is illegal or not in your country depends on if your country sees it as a circumvention device, in which case it may be illegal to make/sell/possess/cuddle or just some weird mix (I think in some situations it's okay to make, but not to possess), yes the laws are really confusing.

The laws were originally made when a "copy" meant something like a counterfeit cotton gin, the whole prospect of digital property didn't exist at the time the original laws were made, so there's been lots of additions/corrections.

 

[Bluelaserman]

I could go on, but its getting off topic and neither of us will back down. I respect your views but don't agree with them. If you REALLY want to continue this, PM me...

What are you talking about? Or rather, do you know what you're talking about? All you're doing is accusing his friends and family of theft, which they aren't committing. He has actual ties with these people, providing the best proof possible, and you still think he's lying. That's just stupid.

Yes, people who don't steal exist. I know, I'm blown away too.

QUOTEFlashcarts are legal devices used illegally by almost everyone. The small few that only use 'em for homebrew are both naive and insane.

Ironically, this opinion is batshit insane.

Flashcards aren't legal everywhere.

Believe it or not, there's good homebrew out there, and many people buy their music and movies (movies later converted). Yeah, that's why a majority of people bought them in the first place, but not all.

Naive and insane, huh? There's so many ways to respond to that I'm not sure where to start. Let's start with this: on this particular belief, you're an idiot.

I was just saying that ALMOST everyone is a pirate in someway or measure. Also replying with "You're an idiot" isn't exactly the best method of responding.

 

[redact]

Also replying with "You're an idiot" isn't exactly the best method of responding.

why not?
you were saying that everybody pirates, he is saying that you are idiotic to think that

yes, i and a lot of others are dirty thieves. but you can not possibly speak for every, single living person; nobody can.

 

[Bluelaserman]