13 Russians, 3 businesses indicted by Mueller/Rosenstein in connection to Trump

[Hanafuda]

Still waiting for collusion with Russia. That's what it's about, right? Manafort's stuff was all well before he was involved with Trump. Cohen's stuff wrt: Trump, at least to the extent that Trump might be tangentially related, seems limited to the 'hush' payments to McDougal and Daniels. I don't understand what makes that a crime -- the sexual activity Trump may have had with these ladies was between adults & consensual, i.e. legal, so an agreed payment of money in exchange not to publicly divulge this legal activity, for purposes of personal reputation preservation, should likewise be just a legal contract (which both women have breached). I'm missing something. Oh yeah, Trump wasn't supposed to win. It was her turn.

 

[Xzi]

Still waiting for collusion with Russia. That's what it's about, right?

No, actually it's about any criminal activity that the investigation might stumble upon. Mueller has extremely wide-reaching authorization. None the less, both Cohen and Manafort had connections to Russia and Ukraine, and it's not hard to guess where a lot of the porn star hush money might've originated from.

 

[Captain_N]

the question is was this done with or without trump's knowledge. If he told them to do it then he needs to be kicked out. If he knew nothing about it then he has defence.


You got to remeber one thing. all this was happening during the Obama administration. He was warned about possible election meddling and told his people to stand down.

 

[Xzi]

the question is was this done with or without trump's knowledge. If he told them to do it then he needs to be kicked out. If he knew nothing about it then he has defence

Michael Cohen confessed under oath that he was directed to make the payments by a "candidate for federal office." Trump is now an unindicted co-conspirator to criminal activity. The "unindicted" part may not last very long, though. Eh, who am I kidding, those spineless worms in congress aren't going to do a thing about it. Not unless the mid-terms have a big impact.

 

[Lacius]

Still waiting for collusion with Russia.

Have you heard about the Trump Tower meeting? What about the dissemination of hacked emails?

Edit: The Manafort stuff also begins to paint a picture regarding his ties to Deripaska and the Russians.

Cohen's stuff wrt: Trump, at least to the extent that Trump might be tangentially related, seems limited to the 'hush' payments to McDougal and Daniels. I don't understand what makes that a crime -- the sexual activity Trump may have had with these ladies was between adults & consensual, i.e. legal, so an agreed payment of money in exchange not to publicly divulge this legal activity, for purposes of personal reputation preservation, should likewise be just a legal contract (which both women have breached).

You're ignoring the campaign finance violations.

 

[Hanafuda]

Michael Cohen confessed under oath that he was directed to make the payments by a "candidate for federal office." Trump is now an unindicted co-conspirator to criminal activity.

What criminal activity? As I explained above, a contract in which party A pays party B to keep their mouth shut about something isn't illegal, unless the information being suppressed itself is illegal or evidence of a crime. Consensual sex is legal. A 'candidate for federal office' can't enter into legal contracts? That right is guaranteed by the Constitution.

If he told them to do it then he needs to be kicked out.

What's the crime?

You're ignoring the campaign finance violations.

I don't see a crime. It's a tenuous stretch to say 'hush' payments to Daniels and McDougal were campaign finance violations. Cohen was reimbursed for it out of his retainer compensation from Trump, and Trump had many other reasons to contract with Daniels and McDougal for their silence than just the election. He has a family, children, business associates .. all reasons to protect from the type of character smears that come up during an election campaign. As I explained above, the contracts for those women to keep their mouths shut were legal. A bit unseemly, typical 'rich guy' stuff, but legal.

But, if Cohen agrees to say it was a crime because that's a condition of the plea agreement, and the judge accepts the plea, then he's convicted and he goes to jail.

 

[Lacius]

But, if Cohen agrees to say it was a crime because that's a condition of the plea agreement, and the judge accepts the plea, then he's convicted and he goes to jail.

Plea deals don't create laws/crimes.

 

[Xzi]

What criminal activity? As I explained above, a contract in which party A pays party B to keep their mouth shut about something isn't illegal, unless the information being suppressed itself is illegal or evidence of a crime.

If you do it during a political campaign, it's a campaign finance violation. A federal crime. There would be no reason for Trump to pay off porn stars if he wasn't also running for president at the time.

 

[KingVamp]

The few people here that somehow still support and defend Trump despite all this, may not even have a choice to vote for him again, if this keeps up.

 

[Hanafuda]

If you do it during a political campaign, it's a campaign finance violation. A federal crime. ...

Ok I don't agree with this 'in-kind contribution' thing, i.e. that if you pay for something to help out someone who happens to be running for office then that's the same (constructively) as a campaign contribution. But my opinion doesn't matter as to whether it's a violation, so let's say it is. A campaign finance reporting violation. If that's what's going on here, then Trump should be allowed to settle it with paying a fine, the same as Obama did.

https://www.politico.com/story/2013...8-campaign-fine-conciliation-agreement-085785

 

[Xzi]

Ok I don't agree with this 'in-kind contribution' thing, i.e. that if you pay for something to help out someone who happens to be running for office then that's the same (constructively) as a campaign contribution. But my opinion doesn't matter as to whether it's a violation, so let's say it is. A campaign finance reporting violation. If that's what's going on here, then Trump should be allowed to settle it with paying a fine, the same as Obama did.

https://www.politico.com/story/2013...8-campaign-fine-conciliation-agreement-085785

I don't believe it's the same kind of campaign finance violation. Obama's reporting violation was due to missing notices for multiple campaign contributions (around 1,300), seemingly disorganization at the lower levels. Trump's is due to unreported hush money payments in two separate cases, payments directly ordered by the man himself. Apparently Trump knew this was illegal as well, which is why he had Cohen pay through shell corporations each time. Cohen is now a felon simply for the act of carrying out Trump's orders. This is also appears to be just the tip of the iceberg. Cohen's lawyer said on TV earlier tonight that he possesses information on Trump's knowledge of Russian hacking efforts he'd be willing to disclose to the special counsel.

 

[Taleweaver]

I had a feeling this thread would be active again. @Xzi certainly saves me the trouble of finding English sources.

Cohen, his voice shaky as he answered questions from a federal judge, said one payment <for silence of the women> was “in coordination and at the direction of a candidate for federal office,” and the other was made “under direction of the same candidate.”
...
Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, noted in a statement that “there is no allegation of any wrongdoing against the president in the government’s charges against Mr. Cohen.”

Giuliani is sounding more and more like comical Ali. There might be more at stake than in the brexit, but it's these kind of things that make it hilarious...

Giuliani: the president has done nothing wrong!
Press: erm...Cohen has just admitted paying women's silence on the order of Donald Trump
Giuliani: That's not what he said! That could have been ANY presidential candidate!

If you do it during a political campaign, it's a campaign finance violation. A federal crime. There would be no reason for Trump to pay off porn stars if he wasn't also running for president at the time.

I (strongly) agree with the first two sentences, but not the latter one. Let's be honest here: the guy is married and had a reputation to uphold. Those are reasons to pay off silence, even if you aren't running for president.


And in all fairness: @Hanafuda certainly has a point. It can be a breakthrough in the case (or two breakthroughs...Manaford's conviction might lead to new info as well), but at this point I don't see ties to Russian's involvement. It's enough to start two impeachments (with Daniels as Lewinski 1 and McDougal as Lewinski 2 ), but if there's any real ties to Russia, I certainly can't find them in the text.

 

[Xzi]

Let's be honest here: the guy is married and had a reputation to uphold. Those are reasons to pay off silence, even if you aren't running for president.

He's been married three times, I don't think marriage is exactly a sacred institution to Trump. His reputation was tarnished from the moment he became a public figure, and US banks stopped lending to him years ago. I'm also pretty sure Melania knew about his affairs as they were happening, but at the end of the day she's there for the money like anybody close to Trump.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

And in all fairness: @Hanafuda certainly has a point. It can be a breakthrough in the case (or two breakthroughs...Manaford's conviction might lead to new info as well), but at this point I don't see ties to Russian's involvement. It's enough to start two impeachments (with Daniels as Lewinski 1 and McDougal as Lewinski 2 ), but if there's any real ties to Russia, I certainly can't find them in the text.

It all goes back to the meeting with the Russian Gov't official over '''''adoption''''', and whether or not Trump knew it was actually about siphoning money into his campaign in return for (implied) political favors. Now, Trump's legal team has denied this, but he's literally tweeted that he was aware of the true nature of the meeting (I don't remember the exact context, but it seems like he somehow thought he was defending himself rather than giving something really important up)

So it's a catch 22. Mueller has subpoena'ed all his tweets, which means that either he admits to being guilty of collusion with a foreign agent with intent to fix a campaign, or he denies it and perjurers himself in front of the jury of a criminal investigation. Either way, it's enough to have him impeached on the spot, I have the feeling Mueller's team is just collecting enough evidence to make sure there's nothing Trump's legal team can do to wiggle him out at this point

 

[Xzi]

More breaking news today: 'New York state has subpoenaed Michael Cohen in Trump Foundation probe.'

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/22/new...art-of-trump-foundation-probe-ap-reports.html

This means they're potentially going after Trump's family as a criminal enterprise.

New York's Attorney General Barbara Underwood had filed suit against Trump and members of his family in June, alleging a pattern of "persistently illegal conduct" at the nonprofit foundation.

 

[KingVamp]

Allen Weisselberg granted immunity.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/allen-...ors-in-michael-cohen-investigation-1535121992

 

[Xzi]

'Michael Cohen Guilty Plea Reveals Link to Qatari Royal Family' - Wall Street Journal

https://www.wsj.com/articles/michae...eveals-link-to-qatari-royal-family-1535127732

A Roger Stone aide has been granted immunity by the feds:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics...r-resisting-robert-mueller-pkg-murray-vpx.cnn

Which likely means charges forthcoming against Trump's bestie.

 

[KingVamp]

'Michael Cohen Guilty Plea Reveals Link to Qatari Royal Family' - Wall Street Journal

Um... who?

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Um... who?

The royal family of Qatar

 

[KingVamp]

The royal family of Qatar

I was hoping for a bit more information than just that. lol Anyway, that's fine. I looked it up myself.