Joe Biden Wins - Becomes 46th president of the United States

Foxi4 · Jan 18, 2021

Darth Meteos said:
this kinda shit is why we're fucked
we're just letting the situation devolve as we're like
"Yeah man, but we'll go back to normal soon, right???" -sweats-

You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. A lot of people have been given permission to go full on fascist, not least of which is the party itself. God, I shudder to think where the 2024 Republican primary is gonna go...

This would be a relevant point if we were discussing actual toothpaste, but you actually have two tubs of joke toothpaste, one is mud-flavoured while the other is a weird mix of onion and rotting fish. I think the flavour is called "durian". There's no point in trying to put it back in the tub, nor is it the intention - just flush it down the drain.

Lacius said:
Nobody objected to the 2016 electoral college certification on the basis of unsubstantiated voter fraud claims. Nobody seriously attempted, nor advocated for, overthrowing the results of the 2016 election.

Stacey Abrams lost because Kemp demonstrably meddled in the 2018 election from a position of power he should not have held (overseeing an election he was running in).

Reports seem to show that Abrams approved the redistricting measure that ended up costing her the seat, in spite of her proclamations to the contrary. Nobody "stole" her seat.

https://theintercept.com/2018/04/27/stacey-abrams-georgia-republican-voting-rights-gerrymandering/

Darth Meteos · Jan 18, 2021

Foxi4 said:
This would be a relevant point if we were discussing actual toothpaste, but you actually have two tubs of joke toothpaste, one is mud-flavoured while the other is a weird mix of onion and rotting fish. I think the flavour is called "durian". There's no point in trying to put it back in the tub, nor is it the intention - just flush it down the drain.

the metaphor- you can't put toothpaste back in the tube- is referring to the fact that the overton window for the republican party has veered much further auth-right, and you can't just undo that progress by letting them scream themselves out
it is not referring to the flavor of the toothpaste, or the intrinsic qualities of toothpaste
merely that the dispersal system for toothpaste is almost completely one-way

Foxi4 · Jan 18, 2021

Darth Meteos said:
the metaphor- you can't put toothpaste back in the tube- is referring to the fact that the overton window for the republican party has veered much further auth-right, and you can't just undo that progress by letting them scream themselves out
it is not referring to the flavor of the toothpaste, or the intrinsic qualities of toothpaste
merely that the dispersal system for toothpaste is almost completely one-way

The overton window has been shifting to the left for decades, it was well-overdue for the pendulum to swing. The difference between a real-life pendulum and politics is that politics break all rules of physics by having nigh-infinite energy, so once the pendulum swings, it swings to the extreme. It absolutely will normalise over time, as it has in the past on a number of occasions.

Lacius · Jan 18, 2021

Foxi4 said:
Reports seem to show that Abrams approved the redistributing measure that ended up costing her the seat, in spite of her proclamations to the contrary. Nobody "stole" her seat.

https://theintercept.com/2018/04/27/stacey-abrams-georgia-republican-voting-rights-gerrymandering/

So we are on the same page, since your response was completely irrelevant, I'm talking about a statewide gubernatorial election unaffected by gerrymandering, and I'm referencing Kemp's actions of "wrongfully flagging 300,000 voters as intelligible to vote" just before the election and delaying 53,000 voter registrations for no reason and without notification, all in disproportionately Black areas of the state.

For the record, Kemp "won" by 54,723 votes.

Darth Meteos · Jan 18, 2021

Foxi4 said:
The overton window has been shifting to the left for decades, it was well-overdue for the pendulum to swing. The difference between a real-life pendulum and politics is that politics break all rules of physics by having nigh-infinite energy, so once the pendulum swings, it swings to the extreme. It absolutely will normalise over time, as it has in the past on a number of occasions.

the overton window has been shifting left? it's been careening right since reagan, and was slowly moving right since truman, what are you even talking about
bernie sanders is like a random labour politician (not a corbyn-type, a random one around the center) and the democratic establishment rose up as one to crush his movement because it was "radically left"

murica - not even once

Deleted User · Jan 18, 2021

Darth Meteos said:
five paragraphs in response to a shitpost
ladies and gentlemen, we got him

This may be a Gaming website, but I'm not here to defecate on ideas.
People who come here to read may be Gamers, but they also have lives outside of Gaming, and the ideas they read here may affect those spheres, too.

Just the other day I made a point to comment about Anarchy and underlined the need to be careful and not act rashly.
A few days after, we had the Washington DC Anarchy which some people here also witnessed first-hand.

So yes, you've got me - red-handed actually caring not to put foot in mouth.

Foxi4 · Jan 18, 2021

Lacius said:
So we are on the same page, since your response was completely irrelevant, I'm talking about a statewide gubernatorial election unaffected by gerrymandering, and I'm referencing Kemp's actions of "wrongfully flagging 300,000 voters as intelligible to vote" just before the election and delaying 53,000 voter registrations for no reason and without notification, all in disproportionately Black areas of the state.

For the record, Kemp "won" by 54,723 votes.

Kemp won, the election was contested. The rest is white noise as far as I'm concerned - Stacey Abrams *still* insists that she's the rightful governor of Georgia because she lives in an alternative version of reality. The link is relevant to the conversation we're having right now in this thread, namely "refusing to concede" and "questioning the results of an election". If Abrams has a claim to make in regards to Kemp's activity, the courts can settle it. From my seat it's 2021 and Abrams is not the governor, so I have a weird feeling that her case wasn't airtight.

Lacius · Jan 19, 2021

Foxi4 said:
Kemp won, the election was contested. The rest is white noise as far as I'm concerned - Stacey Abrams *still* insists that she's the rightful governor of Georgia because she lives in an alternative version of reality. The link is relevant to the conversation we're having right now in this thread, namely "refusing to concede" and "questioning the results of an election". If Abrams has a claim to make in regards to Kemp's activity, the courts can settle it. From my seat it's 2021 and Abrams is not the governor, so I have a weird feeling that her case wasn't airtight.

Abrams acknowledged that Kemp won, but she also rightfully acknowledges that Kemp improperly used his office to suppress likely Democratic voters. I'm not arguing Kemp's actions were necessarily illegal, but that's part of the problem.

You may be unaware, but Republicans have been suppressing votes for a long time now. One of the more egregious examples off the top of my head is when Kansas Republicans moved the only polling place in Dodge City to outside the city limits. For context, Dodge City is majority Democratic and Hispanic.

You can read more about voter suppression in the United States here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States#Contemporary

gamefan5 · Jan 19, 2021

Foxi4 said:
I'm not opposed to conflicts that have been brewing under the surface for decades being finally out in the open. Everybody can act out their crazy temper tantrums and we can return to a semblance of normalcy in due time. Lest we forget that Democrats have also objected to electoral votes certification in 2016, or that to this day they pretend Stacey Abrams actually won her gubernatorial race and the election was "stolen" from her, leading to her subsequent lawsuit against Georgia's board of electors. Bizzare claims of the system "not working" or that it's "fraudulent" are not unique to Republicans.

Oh agreed for sure.

Cryoraptor · Jan 19, 2021

Darth Meteos said:
one side is objectively right, and the other side is objectively wrong

Imo that's a really simplistic way of viewing the world.

UltraSUPRA · Jan 19, 2021

Cryoraptor said:
Answer the question: Do you fundamentally disagree with democracy or not?

A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, *Snip* and you know it.

Cryoraptor · Jan 19, 2021

UltraSUPRA said:
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, *Snip*, and you know it.

So you'd rather have a dictator?

Darth Meteos · Jan 19, 2021

Cryoraptor said:
Imo that's a really simplistic way of viewing the world.

Look at Cryoraptor, slipping the substance for a statement that means nothing.
At any rate, co-operation over competition might be a simple view, but it's borne out by evidence. Simple does not mean wrong.

Foxi4 · Jan 19, 2021

Darth Meteos said:
the overton window has been shifting left? it's been careening right since reagan, and was slowly moving right since truman, what are you even talking about
bernie sanders is like a random labour politician (not a corbyn-type, a random one around the center) and the democratic establishment rose up as one to crush his movement because it was "radically left"

murica - not even once

This claim is not supported by statistical evidence. American politics were polarised long before Trump entered the scene. Republicans shifted further to the right, Democrats shifted *way* further to the left, and the center ended up tilting slightly leftwards, not according to me, but according to Pew Research.

The gap in the middle represents the rapidly growing group of "normal" people who are befuddled by what the heck the two sides are up to these days.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2014/06/12/political-polarization-in-the-american-public/

Darth Meteos · Jan 19, 2021

Cryoraptor said:
So you'd rather have a dictator?

I mean, how else do you take that? Standard authoritarian bullshit, everything you expect from UltraSUPRA.

Cryoraptor · Jan 19, 2021

Darth Meteos said:
Look at Cryoraptor, slipping the substance for a statement that means nothing.
At any rate, co-operation over competition might be a simple view, but it's borne out by evidence. Simple does not mean wrong.

Great way to miss the point. The whole point of my brand of centrism is that the world isn't a simple, black-and-white place, and both sides of the argument are right about some things and wrong about others. What I want to do is take the right things from both sides and get rid of the wrong things that don't work from both sides.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Darth Meteos said:
I mean, how else do you take that? Standard authoritarian bullshit, everything you expect from UltraSUPRA.

Well I don't know, he might come up with some nonsense about how having one single leader that calls the shots and can't be legally removed is more fair and all the rest of it. I haven't extensively conversed with this person before.

UltraSUPRA · Jan 19, 2021

Cryoraptor said:
So you'd rather have a dictator?

No, but choosing the President by popular vote will inevitably end up with the entire vote being determined by less 17% of the counties *Snip*.

Darth Meteos · Jan 19, 2021

Foxi4 said:
This claim is not supported by statistical evidence.

This is based on how ideologically opposed people are to their opposite numbers, not on the overall Overton Window. This is not a valid criticism of my point. Reagan marked what political scientists call the Sixth Political Era. There is debate about when exactly it started, but Reagan transformed politics in America toward the Right. Democratic leaders have been Center-Right since then, compromising on the New Deal values the party represented in the Fifth Era. This is all basic shit to anyone paying attention.

Cryoraptor · Jan 19, 2021

UltraSUPRA said:
No, but choosing the President by popular vote will inevitably end up with the entire vote being determined by less 17% of the counties *Snip*.

Wait, that's just what happened.

>Choosing by popular vote
>American Presidents have always been chosen by electoral votes

Epic phail.

What you're really trying to say is 'let's keep this less-than-ideal system so that those horrid smelly Democrats have artificially low chances of winning and rural areas that vote Republican have a higher say in the election than they shoud'.

Darth Meteos · Jan 19, 2021

Cryoraptor said:
Great way to miss the point. The whole point of my brand of centrism is that the world isn't a simple, black-and-white place, and both sides of the argument are right about some things and wrong about others.

Then engage with my point. What values of the Republican Party do you agree with?

UltraSUPRA said:
*Snip*

@Foxi4 I contend that his sharing of his position makes it easier to combat his ideology. Hiding it actively makes it harder to address the problem with his views. It obfuscates the real issue and derails the conversation.

Joe Biden Wins - Becomes 46th president of the United States

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