Trump Vs Biden - First 2020 Presidential Debates (09/29/2020)

gregory-samba

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The first of three of socially distanced debates between Donald Trump and Joe Biden takes place on Tuesday (09/29/2020) night in Ohio. Tens of millions of Americans will get a close up look at the Republican and Democratic candidates hoping to win the presidential election on November 3rd, 2020. There's a few major media syndicates that include NBC, BBC

The Liberal leaning NBC News site posted an article claiming that the Presidential Debates are like a NFL game where the fans have already made up their mind who they're going with and are just there to root for their team. They then contradict that claim and mention how the candidates appearance and their mental state of mind has in the past influenced voters to change who they wanted to vote for. It's funny they couldn't make up their mind on what the effects of the debate will have on voters.

Most voters say Biden-Trump debates won't move them. Here's why they could matter.
--- https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...-biden-trump-debates-won-t-move-them-n1241259

Conservative leaning FOX News posted that President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden are preparing for Tuesday's debate in starkly different ways, with the latter engaging in mock stand-offs while the former says he's leveraging as practice the contentious environment he already faces as president. According to multiple reports, President Trump has refrained from traditional debate prep and eschewed practice sessions.

After beating former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who prepared extensively in 2016, Trump is suggesting he doesn't want to overdo it. “Sometimes you can go too much in that stuff,” Trump said during a press briefing on Sunday. Meanwhile, Biden has been holding mock debate sessions with senior adviser Bob Bauer and participated in huddles with top aides, according to CBS.

Biden aggressively prepares for debate while Trump cautions against excess preparation
--- https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-trump-debate-preparation

BBC's Anthony Zurcher gives us The Lowdown on what to expect from a contest that's likely to get personal.

Trump and Biden: What to watch for in first presidential debate
--- https://www.bbc.com/news/av/election-us-2020-54300076

So what's your take? Are you going to watch the debates? Do you think the debates could change your mind on who you've planned to vote for?
 

deficitdisorder

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Are you going to watch the debates? Do you think the debates could change your mind on who you've planned to vote for?

Yes ill watch because i find them fascinating but it has been a long time seen a debate performance and any real sway on my opinion. Its performance theater. We almost never learn anything new about the candidates or more importantly their positions. Most people who will focus on issues over person arent gonna change their mind but most of those people are decided already.

Debate is a last ditch attempt at those swing voters who follow literally zero politics during the year. People like my mother whose only engagement in politics is October and need to learn almost everything from scratch.

Trump doing better then absolute disaster will win over more then a few voters. Talk prepandemic economy, give actual plans for the next term. Biden really needs to pin him to his pandemic response fumbling. Also Biden needs avoid verbal stumbling the right loves to pin mental decline despite trump having the exact same issues.


QUICK EDIT
"After beating former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who prepared extensively in 2016"

FUCKING LOL. There is no reality in which Trump did better then a tie in those debates. People expected a meltdowm and when he did alright he got bonus points. What sank Clintom wasnt debate performance.
 
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The Liberal leaning NBC News site posted an article claiming that the Presidential Debates are like a NFL game where the fans have already made up their mind who they're going with and are just there to root for their team. They then contradict that claim and mention how the candidates appearance and their mental state of mind has in the past influenced voters to change who they wanted to vote for. It's funny they couldn't make up their mind on what the effects of the debate will have on voters.
I don't see the contradiction. If their pooling is accurate, 29% of Americans are still undecided. 71% that won't budge is a significant number (hence the word 'most' in the article), but both 'teams' cancel each other out for a large part. As such, the undecideds 'opinions can make or break a president.

Oh, and there's also the turn up that matters. You can root for your party all you want, but if you don't go out to vote you might as well not exist. The debate are also meant to seduce their base to cast their vote.
 
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notimp

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If their pooling is accurate, 29% of Americans are still undecided.
On the most polarizing election one could imagine...

Right to choose might be revoked in a few states next year, president is 400 million in the debt, over the next 4 years, and will be sued, there wasnt much in terms of federal action on covid, unemployment numbers are at record levels, there were riots in the streets, the nuclear safety treaties are being dismantled, wall street was bailed out again, on the democratic side you have a party geriatric party soldier, they aim to get some form of broader health care installed - but hmmm.... one third of people arent quite so sure yet. Lets decide on who has the better display of personality on a debate stage...

While one of the candidates tries to undermine the concept of mail voting through assertions and PR...

All of that - pretty baffling... ;)
 
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0x3000027E

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On the most polarizing election one could imagine...

Right to choose might be revoked in a few states next year, president is 400 million in the debt, over the next 4 years, and will be sued, there wasnt much in terms of federal action on covid, unemployment numbers are at record levels, there were riots in the streets, the nuclear safety treaties are being dismantled, wall street was bailed out again, on the democratic side you have a party geriatric party soldier, they aim to get some form of broader health care installed - but hmmm.... one third of people arent quite so sure yet. Lets decide on who has the better display of personality on a debate stage...

While one of the candidates tries to undermine the concept of mail voting through assertions and PR...

All of that - pretty baffling... ;)

"Baffling" is that you are surprised by Trump's debt. Do you know anything about this man? He literally wrote the book on turning bankruptcy to an advantage. The problem with the president has always been his intimate ties to the world of business (and how this may negatively affect policy), but you are always going on about some other bullshit.

You seem to have this naive idea that these political parties are based in ideology. That the politicians themselves are *philosophers*, each side with it's own set of fundamental ethics and principles to live by.

That's some real fucking horseshit.

Unfortunately, while the populace is choosing opposite sides and pointing fingers, the real solution of implementing term limits can never be realized. Thanks a lot for that.
 
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notimp

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"Baffling" is that you are surprised by Trump's debt. Do you know anything about this man? He literally wrote the book on turning bankruptcy to an advantage.
Ehm, no... I actually looked up his wealth attribution going through Economist backissues (pdfs) once, and posted that here...
https://gbatemp.net/threads/culture-fails.532287/page-2#post-8634306


that was before that video made digesting the results of that, much simpler... ;)

The way he turned near bankruptcy into an advantage, was back in the 80s, when there was a building boom (NY incentivized new construction projects, (writeoffs and depreciations) quote Tump 'everyone was doing it, everyone was taking out loans to invest'), and he had some prestige projects going. He basically used public grants and investor money and loans to finance development, then you are 'broke' (he never went through personal bankruptcy) in terms of taxable assets (you are writing off losses), and have high liabilities, but the outcome in the 'high class' real estate market is a pretty safe bet.

Basically when banks are encouraging you to take out loans, if you are Trump in the 80s, you take them, because you have a project and many backers that believe you and spread risk, in a 'not that risky' business.

Nowadays most of his registered income comes from selling his brand, and golf courses (although those arent doing so well currently), he pretty much has lost his 'hype' from being a real estate developer (casino flops (scalping businesses, before sending them into bancrucy) and bankruptcies in Vegas), credit is not easy to get (there are no 'safe bets' out there to scale any development immensely, as someone with the background of Trump.

And now he has 400 mio in liabilities that are due in the next 4 years, and no more stocks, or liquid assets according to his tax reports.

So there are three options.

1. He goes bankrupt. (unlikely)
2. He looses some of the real estate assets he still holds at below market rate.
3. He's lied on his tax report, and gets audited in the next years and struck with millions of fines.

4. He becomes president, and still tries to do some deals, wield influence, but even then - there is nothing you'd cut a Trump in for 400 million... I mean, he cant give you a free trade deal on his own...

Idk, how much does the military industrial complex like him? And as those are loans, where the hell did that investment go, because the argument is valid for the past ten years or so... who backs a Trump for 400 mio? He basically was a reality TV star at that point.

edit: Less than that, actually:

Trump’s biggest creditor is Deutsche Bank, which in the late 1990s took a gamble on the real estate developer whose history of corporate bankruptcies made him untouchable by most other lenders. Although Trump and the Frankfurt-based bank pulled off several profitable deals, eventually Deutsche’s commercial lending division learned the hard way one reason why other banks considered him persona non grata: If pushed by his creditors on payments, Trump shoves back. In 2008, after he defaulted on a loan for his Chicago hotel and condo development, he filed a multibillion-dollar suit accusing Deutsche Bank and others of contributing to the recent financial meltdown, which he blamed for his inability to repay the loan.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/06/donald-trump-loans-deutsche-bank/

So are those still Deutschbank loans, underwritten by russia? Again, from the leaks, an attribution is not possible.

edit: Seems so:
Nevertheless, Deutsche’s private banking division, which caters to wealthy clientele, continued to lend to Trump, giving him $125 million, spread over two loans, to finance the purchase and renovation of his Doral golf resort in 2012. Both are floating rate loans, meaning the interest rate fluctuates based on market conditions, which lending experts say usually indicates they are interest-only loans. If so, Trump probably hasn’t paid down much if any of the principal and will owe something close to the whole $125 million when the loans come due in 2023.
At least we now know, that his 'big bets' were still in golf resorts and hotels in 2012.
 
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On the most polarizing election one could imagine...

Right to choose might be revoked in a few states next year, president is 400 million in the debt, over the next 4 years, and will be sued, there wasnt much in terms of federal action on covid, unemployment numbers are at record levels, there were riots in the streets, the nuclear safety treaties are being dismantled, wall street was bailed out again, on the democratic side you have a party geriatric party soldier, they aim to get some form of broader health care installed - but hmmm.... one third of people arent quite so sure yet. Lets decide on who has the better display of personality on a debate stage...

While one of the candidates tries to undermine the concept of mail voting through assertions and PR...

All of that - pretty baffling... ;)
Yeah, I don't get those Americans either. Trump has long surpassed cartoonish villain kind of maliciousness, but somehow some people are determined to be undecided. I mean... At least his fanclub is vocal. And yeah... If I was a rich guy, a racist or a religious pro - lifer, I' d probably pick Trump as well . But do many still undecided is almost surreal...

Meanwhile, 40 years in the future :
Poller: so... Who are you going to vote for coming election? :-)
Caller: eeerrrmmm... I haven't decided. I guess I'll watch the debates first.
Poller: you're aware that Cthulhu aims to awaken the eldritch Gods and turn humanity either insane or dead?
Caller: yeah... He certainly got ambition. But his followers claim that there'll be a new era for mankind, so who knows?
Poller: so human extinction doesn't strike you as inhumane?
Caller : well... I don't like most people, but okay : I'm not really onboard with that stuff. But the other guy... What's he called again?
Poller: Joe Average
Caller : yeah... He's a nice guy, but he's no elder God. I don't see him standing up to all the countries we're at war with.
Poller: but... we're not at war?
Caller : not yet we ain't. But look... I'm not 'just' going to vote for him because he's a political genius. I just... I want to see the debate first, okay? Just call me afterwards...
 
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0x3000027E

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Ehm, no... I actually looked up his wealth attribution going through Economist backissues (pdfs) once, and posted that here...
https://gbatemp.net/threads/culture-fails.532287/page-2#post-8634306


that was before that video made digesting the results of that, much simpler... ;)

The way he turned near bankruptcy into an advantage, was back in the 80s, when there was a building boom (NY incentivized new construction projects, (writeoffs and depreciations) quote Tump 'everyone was doing it, everyone was taking out loans to invest'), and he had some prestige projects going. He basically used public grants and investor money and loans to finance development, then you are 'broke' (he never went through personal bankruptcy) in terms of taxable assets (you are writing off losses), and have high liabilities, but the outcome in the 'high class' real estate market is a pretty safe bet.

Basically when banks are encouraging you to take out loans, if you are Trump in the 80s, you take them, because you have a project and many backers that believe you and spread risk, in a 'not that risky' business.

Nowadays most of his registered income comes from selling his brand, and golf courses (although those arent doing so well currently), he pretty much has lost his 'hype' from being a real estate developer (casino flops (scalping businesses, before sending them into bancrucy) and bankruptcies in Vegas), credit is not easy to get (there are no 'safe bets' out there to scale any development immensely, as someone with the background of Trump.

And now he has 400 mio in liabilities that are due in the next 4 years, and no more stocks, or liquid assets according to his tax reports.

So there are three options.

1. He goes bankrupt. (unlikely)
2. He looses some of the real estate assets he still holds at below market rate.
3. He's lied on his tax report, and gets audited in the next years and struck with millions of fines.

4. He becomes president, and still tries to do some deals, wield influence, but even then - there is nothing you'd cut a Trump in for 400 million... I mean, he cant give you a free trade deal on his own...

Idk, how much does the military industrial complex like him? And as those are loans, where the hell did that investment go, because the argument is valid for the past ten years or so... who backs a Trump for 400 mio? He basically was a reality TV star at that point.

edit: Less than that, actually:


https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/06/donald-trump-loans-deutsche-bank/

So are those still Deutschbank loans, underwritten by russia? Again, from the leaks, an attribution is not possible.

edit: Seems so:

At least we now know, that his 'big bets' were still in golf resorts and hotels in 2012.
Well said, however why exclude Trump from the lot? Every politician, (including their bloated administrations) are..................meh, forget it, I just cant get this point across.
 

chrisrlink

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This is my response to this question

this is why america is doomed because people rather not vote or throw away their vote just pick the lesser of two evils cause voting counts (and seeing all the damning evidence on trump including tax evasion)

as for the debate i'm afraid trump just won't shut up amd ,ake personal attacks on biden and his family including his deceased son which imo would sink trumps chances of getting undecided voters only idiots with zero family morals will vote for him then bassicly trump will turn the debate into a total shitshow anyone with a brain can clearly see that coming
 
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