Atlus to revise two "homophobic" scenes for Persona 5 Royal's western release

Viri · Feb 22, 2020

FAST6191 said:
If you change things to cater to the perpetually offended you pretty much never stop (indeed look at this scene -- it is banal as it gets really yet apparently someone decided to take offence anyway) so it tends to be best to oppose such things on principle. Likewise once you let the censors in then they are there forever more always trying to expand their reach.

Yeah, I know that already. I actually said that earlier.

FAST6191 said:
Also what in Mother 3 would be so contentious as to see a "similar" situation arise?

MAGYPSIES ARE AN OLD DATED GENDER STEREOTYPE, AND MUST BE CHANGED! OR WE'LL HOUND ON HOW NINTENDO IS ANTI-LGBT!

eriol33 · Feb 22, 2020

In Japan, yaoi fandom is popular among girls, but it's a girl's fantasy and has done nothing to empower LGBT community.

Lucifer666 · Feb 22, 2020

jfc why are people crying about how this is censorship and the death of video games. they altered a few completely unimportant lines because they are hateful and/or misrepresentative of a minority, why does this bother you so much

it's also not censorship because it's not like the government is banning them from saying this shit, it's just a company making a decision about its own game's localisation to avoid what they think will cost them sales. this is really no big deal whatsoever at worst, and a good change at best.

Viri · Feb 22, 2020

Lucifer666 said:
jfc why are people crying about how this is censorship and the death of video games. they altered a few completely unimportant lines because they are hateful and/or misrepresentative of a minority, why does this bother you so much

Most don't care about the scenes them selves being altered, they care more about the fact that Atlus is listening to the demands of Twitter, "game journalist", and Resetera. Also the fact they believe the west cannot handle scenes like this, without freaking out. Give them an inch, they'll make you censor the whole game.

FGFlann · Feb 22, 2020

It is a misconception that governments are the sole purveyors of censorship. The practice is employable all the way down to the individual level where one adjusts their own speech or behaviours for the benefit of others. It's as simple as being polite against the urge to speak your mind.

Viri · Feb 22, 2020

The same people praising Atlus, are also accusing Nintendo of white washing, and changing a character to more appeal to Japanese viewers.

Who cares? She's just a minor character inside of a 1000+ episode anime!? Plus, I like the new change, she looks a lot better now.
https://kotaku.com/pokemon-anime-accused-of-whitewashing-1841805403

LoggerMan · Feb 22, 2020

The scenes were pretty bad. While encouraging they even put gay characters in the game, you have to wonder what life is like in Japan for gay people if Atlus felt it was totally cool to have them be only Mr Garrison style stereotypes. People like that do exist, more power to them, but not all gay people are like that, just like how not all straight guys are like Donald Trump or Joey from Friends.

Deleted User · Feb 22, 2020

Viri said:
The same people praising Atlus, are also accusing Nintendo of white washing, and changing a character to more appeal to Japanese viewers.

Who cares? She's just a minor character inside of a 1000+ episode anime!? Plus, I like the new change, she looks a lot better now.
https://kotaku.com/pokemon-anime-accused-of-whitewashing-1841805403

I'm sorry, but that's an evident case of false equivalence.
Removing a scene due to the potential harm it may cause to a specific group (and I emphasize "may" so I don't get called an sjw) is entirely different from quite literally changing a character's skin tone for no reason whastoever.
In the end, I truly believe that the change in the Persona 5 rerelease is for the better.

I'd agree with the "oversensitivity" argument if it were not for the fact that the depiction of the LGBT community in said game is pretty much limited to these two scenes, clearly making it seem like their sole purpose in the game was so players could joke at their expense.

Viri · Feb 22, 2020

SpaceFunction said:
quite literally changing a character's skin tone for no reason whastoever

She wasn't even that tan in game. She must have stopped going outside for a while, or bought some skin lightening creams, to not look like a rice farmer. Also, I doubt it was for no reason, I'm sure the Pokemon company had a reason. Maybe Japan just prefers their waifus to be light skinned. Personally, I think she looks a lot better in the anime.

FGFlann · Feb 22, 2020

The claim of white washing Bea is nonsense, but it doesn't belong in this topic anyway. Better to argue the point than to descend into whataboutism.

FAST6191 · Feb 22, 2020

LoggerMan said:
The scenes were pretty bad. While encouraging they even put gay characters in the game, you have to wonder what life is like in Japan for gay people if Atlus felt it was totally cool to have them be only Mr Garrison style stereotypes. People like that do exist, more power to them, but not all gay people are like that, just like how not all straight guys are like Donald Trump or Joey from Friends.

Does the final sentence not contradict the first?

If it is a real thing that exists in the world then why it can't it, or shouldn't it as the case may be, be represented in a game nominally set in the world and even arguably within context of the game (for the second video the next scene seems to be seeing others get hit on rather awkwardly)?

Lucifer666 · Feb 23, 2020

FGFlann said:
It is a misconception that governments are the sole purveyors of censorship... It's as simple as being polite against the urge to speak your mind.

So... thinking before you speak and trying to be a decent human being is censorship? I think that's a little extreme.

FGFlann · Feb 23, 2020

Lucifer666 said:
So... thinking before you speak and trying to be a decent human being is censorship? I think that's a little extreme.

Luckily that's just the way you think of censorship. Like all practices it has degrees of severity depending on how it's used. When it becomes a problem for most people is when it infringes upon liberty.

Lucifer666 · Feb 23, 2020

Viri said:
Most don't care about the scenes them selves being altered, they care more about the fact that Atlus is listening to the demands of Twitter, "game journalist", and Resetera.

That doesn't make sense. You associate the scenes being altered with listening to the demands of Twitter, "game journalist", and Resetera, which they care about, so they do care about the scenes being altered. That's like saying "I don't care if you pour some oil in my apartment and toss a lit match into it, just don't start a fire"

Viri said:
Give them an inch, they'll make you censor the whole game.

No they won't

The Catboy · Feb 23, 2020

FGFlann said:
Luckily that's just the way you think of censorship. Like all practices it has degrees of severity depending on how it's used. When it becomes a problem for most people is when it infringes upon liberty.

This so melodramatic and such an extreme reaction. This isn't like they were forced to make this change or that the change even made a difference to the game. They revised a homophobic scene and that's literally all they did, there's nothing deeper to this,

FGFlann · Feb 23, 2020

Lilith Valentine said:
This so melodramatic and such an extreme reaction. This isn't like they were forced to make this change or that the change even made a difference to the game. They revised a homophobic scene and that's literally all they did, there's nothing deeper to this,

I'm not commenting on the change to the game, it doesn't matter to me. I'm talking about the nature of censorship since it became relevant to the conversation.

The Catboy · Feb 23, 2020

FGFlann said:
I'm not commenting on the change to the game, it doesn't matter to me. I'm talking about the nature of censorship since it became relevant to the conversation.

Expect you are still being melodramatic about this topic as you are acting like this is some massive issue when it's really not. A company making a choice to alter parts of their game is nothing new. That being said, why is it a problem to remove a scene that had nothing to do with the story? This isn't actual censorship, they altered a scene for a rerelease of the game, that's pretty common practice in the entertainment industry. The choice to remove this scene does not affect the game whatsoever and it's still available in the original release of the game.

FGFlann · Feb 23, 2020

Lilith Valentine said:
Expect you are still being melodramatic about this topic as you are acting like this is some massive issue when it's really not. A company making a choice to alter parts of their game is nothing new. That being said, why is it censorship to remove a scene that had nothing to do with the story? The choice to remove this scene does not affect the game whatsoever and it's still available in the original release of the game.

I think you have fundamentally misunderstood my intent, somehow. There is no melodrama to be had because I am not addressing the topic of the change and whether or not it is good or bad. I am explaining the concept of censorship and why it isn't necessarily tied to government action.

The Catboy · Feb 23, 2020

FGFlann said:
I think you have fundamentally misunderstood my intent, somehow. There is no melodrama to be had because I am not addressing the topic of the change and whether or not it is good or bad. I am explaining the concept of censorship and why it isn't necessarily tied to government action.

FGFlann said:
It is a misconception that governments are the sole purveyors of censorship. The practice is employable all the way down to the individual level where one adjusts their own speech or behaviours for the benefit of others. It's as simple as being polite against the urge to speak your mind.

Ah, I see now. That being said, I don't see how it's censorship to try and be a decent person and learn to be sensitive towards others.

FGFlann · Feb 23, 2020

Lilith Valentine said:
Ah, I see now. That being said, I don't see how it's censorship to try and be a decent person and learn to be sensitive towards others.

It's commonly referred to as self-censorship. As I said, there are varying degrees of severity and people tend to take it as affront when it infringes upon liberty. General politeness is common and we all practice it every day. Censorship is not good or bad in that respect, it's important to social cohesion because we are not always rational, unfortunately.

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