In just over a month, Persona 5 will return to the PlayStation 4 to take players' hearts once more, in the updated re-release of Persona 5 Royal. The game, which already launched in Japan last October, is slated for a March 31st release in the west, where it has been confirmed that it will have two scenes edited from its original version. The changes revolve around two minor cutscenes in the game, where two "stereotypical gay men" approach the player characters as a gag, In the game's original western launch, these scenes were met with mixed reception, with certain players finding the content offensive, which has lead to Atlus USA believing that the release of Royal is the perfect time to "update it for the current generation".

In an interview exclusive to IGN, Atlus USA's Communications Manager said that these two scenes would be changed, as to not cast the men in a "negative light".

We actually were able to go through some of the lines that players may not have received as well, look at that feedback, and then [update it] for the current generation.

In a separate exclusive interview with Gamespot, localization manager Yu Namba commented the following, regarding the content in question.

As a localization manager, I really cannot do too much about what has already made it into the game. Our team members felt a little bit of awkwardness about when working on it. And with Royal, we were determined to see if we could do something about it at least localization-wise. On our end, it took a lot of effort consulting not just the production department, but talking with our marketing, and how they would feel about it if we changed how things were in Persona 5 to this new way--what would the public reception be, what the company would think, whether it would be okay if we do make the change.

If you're curious to see the original Persona 5's version of those scenes, they both have been linked below.

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[Clydefrosch]

I essentially said that, as a rule, I desire the product as it was released in its domestic market. That's the product I hope for before its localized. If the original developer decides they want to change it globally in some way, then I accept that in much the same way that I would accept a patch or an update. They changed their mind and that's fine. When a third party makes that change, then I regard it as content intended for the user being removed or altered. Better or worse doesn't even enter the equation for me. Is that some great sin on my part? Am I not allowed to have my own preferences on how media is released?

you talk about this stuff as if they ruined the vision of one person crafting each and every scene and throwaway line for a bigger purpose, when these games are cobbled together by rooms full of people that, beyond the main plot and a few adjacent side plots, usually add things rather willy nilly just to fill content holes. this scene isn't a part of the message the game is conveying.
especially translated to western audiences, it's just randomly sending a pretty insulting message out of nowhere.

in japan, where this type of insult towards homosexuals is still much more mainstream (that doesn't make it better btw, it just means that even fewer people would bat an eye over it, the same way gays in the 60's mostly just endured this stuff) and this type of comedy (the emphasizing stereotypic depiction of various character archetypes where just not acting like any human is half of the comedy) at the very least is contextualized a little bit as being not exclusively insulting for the sake of insult, so it's borderline less problematic if that is your actual frame of reference.

but thrown into the west, where we're mostly past this humor based exclusively on stereotype, insult of minorities and overemphasized depiction of outward appearances (think 1930's black characters in cartoons), this scene overall conveys a very different message.
and changing this of all scenes is so inconsequential for the other 90 hours of this game, you very honestly do have to wonder about peoples intentions here. are they -actually- complaining about 'censorship' and do they have any idea what censorship actually means and intends to do, or if they're just complaining that they're losing a game that openly insulted a certain minority (or a panty shot in a smash game, or some tits bouncing more, or a very annoying minigame where you can grope people)

Because I honestly can't see anyone complaining about censorship or demanding a restoration patch if they'd make some characters dress shorter in the west, or if kasumis boobs jiggled even more, or if you could grab Nowi by the pussy in FE, or if they added more random insults or whatever.

this is a throwaway scene so far removed from any meaningful element of the plot, you could replace it with anything and it wouldn't make any difference to anyone but the people that might get upset about being depicted as pedophiles.


you can think about this however you want, obviously. but your perspective is pretty silly if you apply it 100% no discussion to every instance of localization happening.

 

[MercilessDeth]

This thread probably shouldn't even exist. This is another shining example of both sides of an argument really just making asses of themselves, as internet culture is quick to do these days.

Since gaming came about, we've had localization changes, for better or worse, and especially with JRPGs. Whether it's because there's a reference to some folklore or history that we wouldn't get in the West, a joke that's hard to get to land after translation, and occasionally (as it appears in this case) cultural differences insofar as something that could be offensive.

Should the scene exist in the first place? I don't know, I'm not Japanese. Maybe the joke lands there with no issues; maybe the scene is so ridiculous it's obviously a joke, whereas in America hyperbole doesn't come off that way sometimes. Should the scene have been changed in the original localization? Maybe, you'd think the US division would have scratched their heads about this one. Which leads us to:

Should there have been an outrage culture uproar? Probably not. These things snowball so quickly--there's likely retweets and video reactions and opinions for/against the change from people who don't even know what Persona is, aren't interested in buying the game, maybe don't buy or play videogames at all. Who could tell? It's really impossible to know if there is an extremely loud minority group, or if a tweet or two is enough for a 'game journalist' to pick up the story and roll with a blip on the radar that wouldn't have even trended otherwise.

Is the scene offensive? Depends on the viewer. There's probably people who find it funny of all orientations, and people who find it in poor taste of all orientations.

Did the scene need censored based on internet outrage? I'm going with no. It doesn't really add anything of artistic value, changing it doesn't take anything away from the game, but that's not really the point. It's fairly ingrained that a lot people in the US dislike censorship--there's a firmly held belief in freedom of expression. Why I would defend expression that some might deem hateful or tasteless is because the reason you have the freedom to disagree is based on their freedom to be hateful or tasteless. You can't infringe on one side because you don't like it; you'll find that setting that precedent means your ability to have contrasting opinions will infringed upon. If the game contains content that you don't like, vote with your money...if you don't like that the game was changed based on internet opinions, vote with your money.

How many of you changed your opinion on purchasing this release because of this anyway? Supposing that you intended to purchase it to begin with, of course.

 

[Viri]

But at least Kotaku is finally happy.

Yeah, at least Kotaku won't accuse Atlus of having the word "Retard" in their song lyrics again, after not taking the 5 minutes of Googling the lyrics to a song in Persona 3.

 

[ChaosEternal]

Because I honestly can't see anyone complaining about censorship or demanding a restoration patch if they'd make some characters dress shorter in the west, or if kasumis boobs jiggled even more, or if you could grab Nowi by the pussy in FE, or if they added more random insults or whatever.

this is a throwaway scene so far removed from any meaningful element of the plot, you could replace it with anything and it wouldn't make any difference to anyone but the people that might get upset about being depicted as pedophiles.


you can think about this however you want, obviously. but your perspective is pretty silly if you apply it 100% no discussion to every instance of localization happening.

I would complain if the localizers made those theoretical changes. The one scenario that might not irk me is if they solely added content. However, if I felt that said content detracted from the rest of the game, then I'd still be annoyed. Call it silly if you wish, that's your right just as much as it is mine to complain. I'm a purist. I even like it when untranslatable jokes are given translator's notes. That's not to say that I would choose not to purchase a game over small changes. I don't play Persona, but if I did this wouldn't dissuade me from purchasing it. It wouldn't have even the slightest impact on my purchasing decision. All of the religious censorship in old JRPGs annoys me, but that doesn't keep me from playing them. My belief takes a different route. If given an uncensored version I will, barring other unrelated downsides, purchase it 100% over the censored version.

 

[Kioku]

So, the issue lies in their portrayal? I'm at an absolute loss here. On the one hand, this is a minor issue. So small that it really shouldn't be a problem. On the other hand, should it really matter? The things people take issue with these days. The white knights defending something, and the opposite crowd throwing insults about the white knights. This is stupid. Gaming shouldn't be such an absurd joke, but here we are.

 

[Deleted User]

yeah, you don't have such a strong reaction alright.

The funny thing is, when a show or a game inserts gay characters in a positive light, the people that bitch and moan about "sjw" and "pc culture" are also the type to cry pc pussies ruining the game with their sjw agenda.

But when they're shown as child molesters, then god damnit, it's fucking art that deserves protection.

Yeah man, you fuck right off.

Personally I don't like it when a positive portrayal gets ruined by drawing a disproportionate amount of attention to the fact. Makes it feel less genuine and more like they're just using homosexuality as a marketing tool to make money. Also angers the anti-sjw sjws who then get angry at homosexuals and the 'gay agenda'

Overwatch comics did it right imo until the writer went on a twatter virtue signal.
I think people would still have gotten upset anyway without the twatter post because of a lack of notable straight character relationship reveals, and Soldier 76 was basically the male identity bait for insecure males to identify with.

 

[the_randomizer]

Like, I get people wanting to change things, to make it better so as to not be hurtful and so on. Don't get me wrong. But as for ResetEra, they can fucking die in a fire.

 

[samcambolt270]

I'm confused. They want to remove a few short scenes simply because there were characters in it that were ever so slightly stereotypical in portrayal? There's an entire dungeon in p4 that is exclusively comprised of steretypical homosexual references, but that wasn't a problem?

 

[the_randomizer]

I'm confused. They want to remove a few short scenes simply because there were characters in it that were ever so slightly stereotypical in portrayal? There's an entire dungeon in p4 that is exclusively comprised of steretypical homosexual references, but that wasn't a problem?

ResetEra is cancer and needs to be eradicated, along with their dumbass moderators and members

 

[Deleted User]

I'm confused. They want to remove a few short scenes simply because there were characters in it that were ever so slightly stereotypical in portrayal? There's an entire dungeon in p4 that is exclusively comprised of steretypical homosexual references, but that wasn't a problem?

I've heard P5 is the first game in the series to be mainstream.

 

[FGFlann]

Some definitely considered it a problem, but consider when P4 was released. The cultural impetus to generate this kind of outrage just wasn't here yet.

 

[m_babble]

Edgelord central with all the "SJW" comments.

 

[the_randomizer]

Edgelord central with all the "SJW" comments.

Defending those ResetEra dumbasses, are you? Sad.

 

[MagnesG]

yeah, you don't have such a strong reaction alright.

The funny thing is, when a show or a game inserts gay characters in a positive light, the people that bitch and moan about "sjw" and "pc culture" are also the type to cry pc pussies ruining the game with their sjw agenda.

But when they're shown as child molesters, then god damnit, it's fucking art that deserves protection.

Yeah man, you fuck right off.

Suddenly all this narratives had becomes a case of art protection? Orientation is so important, they had to become a major association for every issue? Also, when did this happen? Did I bitch about the other character in the good spotlight in the game? You still didn't know about it don't you?

Keep projecting the set narratives homophobic 101 that you had. No one felt that upset about the changes, it's the attitude that was the problem. The fact that buzzwords like homophobic being thrown around like candies only means that certain people are always oversensitive with no adequate reason at all. No fun allowed or humor, always insecure, virtue signalling is a must.

I would say keep going, man. As insufferable as it is to live like that, I know some people like to do this to feel good about themselves.

 

[the_randomizer]

People who actively defend ResetEra's whining are all delusional and should never be taken seriously.

 

[FAST6191]

Amusingly enough I have had functionally identical situations happen to me in real life (decades of skateboards, pushbikes and walking everywhere have left with me legs that are apparently catnip to a certain type of gentleman, in addition to making it hard to roll up my trousers). Considered it flattering and carried on waiting for the train, and other times wandered off.

Didn't know I was involved in homophobic incidents when it occurred. This changes everything. Might have to seek therapy now.

 

[DS1]

I'm confused. They want to remove a few short scenes simply because there were characters in it that were ever so slightly stereotypical in portrayal? There's an entire dungeon in p4 that is exclusively comprised of steretypical homosexual references, but that wasn't a problem?

The scenes in Persona 5 are jokes, like, "lol, look at the uncomfortable situation that this straight dude is put in!" The audience is meant to feel like it's gross for the central characters. It 'feels' super out of place in a series that ended up being popular among people with more 'progressive' attitudes towards sexuality, but again, it's difficult to know whether that's a cultural difference or just lazy writing.

The dungeon in Persona 4 was a manifestation one character's internalized homophobia. It makes sense that it is a bunch of stereotypes, because you're looking into the psyche of someone who IS made uncomfortable by those things. Some people could have mistaken it for humor, but it was really trying to be sympathetic to an otherwise goofy character (he was supposed to be a caricature of hypermasculinity).

There are some people that DID have a problem with the latter, but for different reasons, and they are definitely in the minority.

 

[Viri]

This thread just proves to me that Nintendo has a point in not wanting to bring Mother 3 to the west. Half of you will get triggered by x y z scene, the other half will get triggered by Nintendo having to "change things".

 

[MercilessDeth]

The scenes in Persona 5 are jokes, like, "lol, look at the uncomfortable situation that this straight dude is put in!" The audience is meant to feel like it's gross for the central characters. It 'feels' super out of place in a series that ended up being popular among people with more 'progressive' attitudes towards sexuality, but again, it's difficult to know whether that's a cultural difference or just lazy writing.

The dungeon in Persona 4 was a manifestation one character's internalized homophobia. It makes sense that it is a bunch of stereotypes, because you're looking into the psyche of someone who IS made uncomfortable by those things. Some people could have mistaken it for humor, but it was really trying to be sympathetic to an otherwise goofy character (he was supposed to be a caricature of hypermasculinity).

There are some people that DID have a problem with the latter, but for different reasons, and they are definitely in the minority.

I'll admit that I haven't gotten around to playing P5 yet. I own it, but mostly because I found the steelbook edition for a pretty low price and went ahead and picked it up. So, I'm taking everybody at their word that the scenes in P5 don't add anything beyond a joke at the expense of these characters. It doesn't change my above opinion, but since I don't have the further context I'll trust people who seem to have played the game.

I have played far enough in P4:G on PSVita to know the scene that's being referenced. With the context, I came to a similar interpretation as you. There is an overtly masculine character, the interactions with him prior definitely hint at his sexuality, and he's really the stereotype of "overcompensating". Of course, when you glimpse into his psyche, I didn't really take it as humor (though it is a bit uncomfortable -- but in this case it seems like an intentional design choice). Since he is overcompensating so heavily externally because of his internal conflicts, it would stand to reason that his internal monologue is equally uncontrollable. If you play through to that point in full, the ridiculousness actually has a net positive impact on your view of that character; he was lashing out because he couldn't reconcile his own difficult emotions.

In a vacuum though, you could cherry-pick scenes from that part of the game with no context and it would look like a rather backwards portrayal like the P5 scenes do. There's certainly a good chunk of material in that section that if anybody passed by you playing it they'd have a number of questions. One of the things that I personally find confusing about the material presented here in P5 is that P4 did contain similar stereotypes, on the surface -- but in reality there was a broader narrative and it was somewhat progressive in demonstrating a person struggling with those complex emotions

 

[FAST6191]

This thread just proves to me that Nintendo has a point in not wanting to bring Mother 3 to the west. Half of you will get triggered by x y z scene, the other half will get triggered by Nintendo having to "change things".

If you change things to cater to the perpetually offended you pretty much never stop (indeed look at this scene -- it is banal as it gets really yet apparently someone decided to take offence anyway) so it tends to be best to oppose such things on principle. Likewise once you let the censors in then they are there forever more always trying to expand their reach.

Also what in Mother 3 would be so contentious as to see a "similar" situation arise?