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The benefits of Brexit - the future of the United Kingdom
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Your documentary is literally driven by a think tank of the far right, that lobbied to get out of the EU since 1988, and was instrumental for producing the ideas behind the leave referendum.
Its founder, a Baron, (now deceased) ran newspapers for Robert Murdoch, was the secretary of the Mont Pelerin society and founded the Social Affairs unit, a think tank, which was an offshoot of the Institute of economic affairs in the UK.
Google or not, I can assure, you that I didn't write those peoples bio's in the last three minutes on Wikipedia.
So no random conspiracy against the people of those fine institute. I just followed up on who was driving the message here.
That they are now pushing 'please share, real scandal story in here' youtube videos with video material from russian media channels on youtube - you have to agree, holds a special note.
I mean I even first thought they were pushing Russian Propaganda.
No - those are the very guys who engineered brexit in the first place.
On message since 1988.
Thats dedication.
But thats not an impartial news source.
And yes - part of why you still uphold miliary commitments is because of strategic and national interests.
Paying money to one of those funds is not something that will significantly alter britains ability to stay or act independently. All in all, if you have enough, you could simply withdraw the commitments should you want to. Politicly it may be a problem, but sovereignty on decision making is still yours.
Moreso - if you come from my perspective, most of of that seems to indicate, that all Britain wanted out of Brexit anyhow was the ability to do free and independent trade negotiations, and din't care much about the rest.
But currently those 'commitments' arent something that bind you in any significant way in regards to your future strategic decisions. You are not 'handing over your army to the EU' to 'own it'.
Its founder, a Baron, (now deceased) ran newspapers for Robert Murdoch, was the secretary of the Mont Pelerin society and founded the Social Affairs unit, a think tank, which was an offshoot of the Institute of economic affairs in the UK.
Google or not, I can assure, you that I didn't write those peoples bio's in the last three minutes on Wikipedia.
So no random conspiracy against the people of those fine institute. I just followed up on who was driving the message here.
That they are now pushing 'please share, real scandal story in here' youtube videos with video material from russian media channels on youtube - you have to agree, holds a special note.
I mean I even first thought they were pushing Russian Propaganda.
No - those are the very guys who engineered brexit in the first place.
On message since 1988.
Thats dedication.
But thats not an impartial news source.
And yes - part of why you still uphold miliary commitments is because of strategic and national interests.
Paying money to one of those funds is not something that will significantly alter britains ability to stay or act independently. All in all, if you have enough, you could simply withdraw the commitments should you want to. Politicly it may be a problem, but sovereignty on decision making is still yours.
Moreso - if you come from my perspective, most of of that seems to indicate, that all Britain wanted out of Brexit anyhow was the ability to do free and independent trade negotiations, and din't care much about the rest.
But currently those 'commitments' arent something that bind you in any significant way in regards to your future strategic decisions. You are not 'handing over your army to the EU' to 'own it'.
Last edited by notimp,
One point that was made was, that those new deals should not undermine five eyes and NATO relationships.
NATO nowadays is basically defunct - but fear not there are many european countries still within it, so it is in our interest as well to keep it at least as actionable as it is now. Which is basically a talking circle (could be revived).
The five eyes (this is basically the intelligence sharing network that keeps the UK at the same level as the US, information wise) relationships over the past years have proven very strong and integral to Britains recent politcal history, so there is a point to be had there. But then I'd argue, that they are so important to Britains national interest, and were so in the past, that britain would not risk any move that harmed those interests even minorly. All things considered, they might even try to get back to their former role as the US sattelite state in europe, brokering deals on that special relationhip alone. You dont just sell that into the wind.
Now - there are built in conflicts, when it comes to EU foreign relations down the road (when such a position gets established), because the EU interests (of the most important states) are certainly not aligned behind the ideas of lets say Poland in regards to foreign policy.
But I certainly don't think that Britain will hamper themselves to a point, where it would loose them browny points with the US. Because of regionality alone, our foreign interests somewhat align - so partnerships seem at least somewhat, like an obvious thing.
We have not become your military enemy in the last three years, last time I checked.
So whatever interests are peddled here, might be partial. Just saying.
Oh, and the youtuber is not a journalist. Nor does he seemingly want to be one. There is no critical distance, there is no effort to retain an impartial viewpoint, there is no independent research, there was no effort made to reach the other side for comment, you are linking propaganda. (The same way as reading the workers parties newspapers was propaganda before the age of mass media.)
But its interesting from another viewpoint, because those were the guys that actually were instrumental in causing Brexit.
NATO nowadays is basically defunct - but fear not there are many european countries still within it, so it is in our interest as well to keep it at least as actionable as it is now. Which is basically a talking circle (could be revived).
The five eyes (this is basically the intelligence sharing network that keeps the UK at the same level as the US, information wise) relationships over the past years have proven very strong and integral to Britains recent politcal history, so there is a point to be had there. But then I'd argue, that they are so important to Britains national interest, and were so in the past, that britain would not risk any move that harmed those interests even minorly. All things considered, they might even try to get back to their former role as the US sattelite state in europe, brokering deals on that special relationhip alone. You dont just sell that into the wind.
Now - there are built in conflicts, when it comes to EU foreign relations down the road (when such a position gets established), because the EU interests (of the most important states) are certainly not aligned behind the ideas of lets say Poland in regards to foreign policy.
But I certainly don't think that Britain will hamper themselves to a point, where it would loose them browny points with the US. Because of regionality alone, our foreign interests somewhat align - so partnerships seem at least somewhat, like an obvious thing.
We have not become your military enemy in the last three years, last time I checked.
So whatever interests are peddled here, might be partial. Just saying.
Oh, and the youtuber is not a journalist. Nor does he seemingly want to be one. There is no critical distance, there is no effort to retain an impartial viewpoint, there is no independent research, there was no effort made to reach the other side for comment, you are linking propaganda. (The same way as reading the workers parties newspapers was propaganda before the age of mass media.)
But its interesting from another viewpoint, because those were the guys that actually were instrumental in causing Brexit.
Last edited by notimp,
A funny point thats brought up later is, that in an IF statement one of the pundits says, that they feat that if they are tied into European defense structures without any political say, that this would be the worst outcome for all.
Too bad you arent in the EU then, ey? But again, this is a hypothetical, that probably wont play out as the UK linking themselves to security partnerships where they have no say in.
We saw something similarly recently, when the US tried to 'trigger' the NATO defense emergency case for 'terrorism' without wanting to declare what any side was doing a war and Germany and France basically told them off. So whats written, and how its interpreted by sovereign states usually leaves some room to maneuver yourself out of commitments without blowing up the entire structure.
Hey think positive - to create those special relationhips means job security for all the people that produced that video.
The thing is - if you really are concerned about those things, within the political game, it is always more beneficial to stay in it and try to get your points through politically - but now they are producing youtube tell all videos instead, so - maybe political majority interests arent favoring them personally at the moment.
You could take that without screaming 'high treason' at the top of your lungs. Out of fear of Britain reentering the EU through a back door.
To calm those worries. No, for that you would need another referendum. Even at when the current deal gets signed stages.
edit: Then what follows are empty prep speeches, then its over.
Too bad you arent in the EU then, ey? But again, this is a hypothetical, that probably wont play out as the UK linking themselves to security partnerships where they have no say in.
We saw something similarly recently, when the US tried to 'trigger' the NATO defense emergency case for 'terrorism' without wanting to declare what any side was doing a war and Germany and France basically told them off. So whats written, and how its interpreted by sovereign states usually leaves some room to maneuver yourself out of commitments without blowing up the entire structure.
Hey think positive - to create those special relationhips means job security for all the people that produced that video.
The thing is - if you really are concerned about those things, within the political game, it is always more beneficial to stay in it and try to get your points through politically - but now they are producing youtube tell all videos instead, so - maybe political majority interests arent favoring them personally at the moment.
You could take that without screaming 'high treason' at the top of your lungs. Out of fear of Britain reentering the EU through a back door.
To calm those worries. No, for that you would need another referendum. Even at when the current deal gets signed stages.
edit: Then what follows are empty prep speeches, then its over.
Last edited by notimp,
*looks at interaction between @notimp and @CORE *
Wow...Erm...isn't this the point where you both agree to disagree?
@CORE : the last half dozen posts of you in this thread aren't even about your original opinion. If you can't be bothered to explain it, why post it in the first place?
@notimp: you're pretty much the opposite. yes, you're intelligent. yes, you do research. But is it really necessary to write these walls of text? I'd be surprised if @CORE skimmed through even half of it, let alone gave it some serious thinking. Summarize things, provide some links if you have to and explain further when asked would be a better approach.
EDIT: got interrupted IRL. I was going to post about the actual brexit...
Parliament has agreed on something brexit-related!!!!
More specific: they agreed to further treatment of the brexit law. Yyyyeaaaahhh...not exactly ground breaking when not taking British politics into account, but we're dealing with British politics here.
Unfortunately, the vote to quickly check the brexit agreement (so the actual vote can be held in three days) had more "nays" to them. So the official request for delays (might or might not be in Boris' name) stays. Tusk is requesting(1) the other members to be in favor of this delay, but that remains to be seen.
My local newspaper calls it "both no-deal brexit and a deal with a brexit have become a bit less likely", but what that means is yet to be seen. Thus far no new elections announced. And despite of a huge-ass demonstration demanding a second referendum (sorry @JoeBloggs777 ...they seemed to be hellbent to bent the knee to the EU), that's not really being talked about either.
(1): brexiteers will probably snicker that 'requesting' should be 'ordering', but that's a matter of perspective.
Wow...Erm...isn't this the point where you both agree to disagree?
@CORE : the last half dozen posts of you in this thread aren't even about your original opinion. If you can't be bothered to explain it, why post it in the first place?
@notimp: you're pretty much the opposite. yes, you're intelligent. yes, you do research. But is it really necessary to write these walls of text? I'd be surprised if @CORE skimmed through even half of it, let alone gave it some serious thinking. Summarize things, provide some links if you have to and explain further when asked would be a better approach.
EDIT: got interrupted IRL. I was going to post about the actual brexit...
Parliament has agreed on something brexit-related!!!!
More specific: they agreed to further treatment of the brexit law. Yyyyeaaaahhh...not exactly ground breaking when not taking British politics into account, but we're dealing with British politics here.
Unfortunately, the vote to quickly check the brexit agreement (so the actual vote can be held in three days) had more "nays" to them. So the official request for delays (might or might not be in Boris' name
) stays. Tusk is requesting(1) the other members to be in favor of this delay, but that remains to be seen.My local newspaper calls it "both no-deal brexit and a deal with a brexit have become a bit less likely", but what that means is yet to be seen. Thus far no new elections announced. And despite of a huge-ass demonstration demanding a second referendum (sorry @JoeBloggs777 ...they seemed to be hellbent to bent the knee to the EU
), that's not really being talked about either.(1): brexiteers will probably snicker that 'requesting' should be 'ordering', but that's a matter of perspective.
Last edited by Taleweaver,
The 2nd Video confirms what the 1st video is on about they even discuss it in Parliament.
The information is for those that are awake on this Forum not a Globalist Sheep so I guess Brexiteers.
@Taleweaver is correct @notimp prove me wrong not write a book on how Far Right Propaganda is bad but I guess Far Left is good.
Bullshit are u even from UK?
Same for u @Taleweaver I dont give a shit what ur paper says Leftwing Propaganda most likely all off it.
This concerns British Citizens not Europe perhaps you like sitting on Uncle George Lap but true British Loyalists wont be having none of it.
Brexit is overall a bloody mess perhaps u see it like this Scotland appears to want Independence and u already have South Ireland A Republic Sellout to Europe but yet call themselves Republic.
So I guess that leaves England Wales and Northern Ireland not much point being Seperate from Europe I guess however it is not about that it is about Britain what is left of it making its own Laws regulations and its own Military Security Forces a Sovereign Nation not being sold out and regulated by European DeepState Unnellected Burrecrats.
The Fear of loosing Control and Power this is what it is about if UK leaves others may follow and the Empire crumbles.
Globalist Control is being undermined tell you what look up Loyalist Northern Ireland and Troubles your Left Wing Wikipedia is actually not that biased on it.
Brexit is deeper for Loyalists all the Fighting and Killing for this Betrayal is Unacceptable so dont jump in here and Talk shit about things you dont understand even more so if not from UK I dont care for Politics or LeftWing Trash Actions Speak Louder than words even more so now.
Like @notimp mentioned Facebook I dont use it never cared to tell people my Business but all ur Leftwing censoring Conservative opinions or even HongKong now how long do you think before Actions Speak louder than words.
The information is for those that are awake on this Forum not a Globalist Sheep so I guess Brexiteers.
@Taleweaver is correct @notimp prove me wrong not write a book on how Far Right Propaganda is bad but I guess Far Left is good.
Bullshit are u even from UK?
Same for u @Taleweaver I dont give a shit what ur paper says Leftwing Propaganda most likely all off it.
This concerns British Citizens not Europe perhaps you like sitting on Uncle George Lap but true British Loyalists wont be having none of it.
Brexit is overall a bloody mess perhaps u see it like this Scotland appears to want Independence and u already have South Ireland A Republic Sellout to Europe but yet call themselves Republic.
So I guess that leaves England Wales and Northern Ireland not much point being Seperate from Europe I guess however it is not about that it is about Britain what is left of it making its own Laws regulations and its own Military Security Forces a Sovereign Nation not being sold out and regulated by European DeepState Unnellected Burrecrats.
The Fear of loosing Control and Power this is what it is about if UK leaves others may follow and the Empire crumbles.
Globalist Control is being undermined tell you what look up Loyalist Northern Ireland and Troubles your Left Wing Wikipedia is actually not that biased on it.
Brexit is deeper for Loyalists all the Fighting and Killing for this Betrayal is Unacceptable so dont jump in here and Talk shit about things you dont understand even more so if not from UK I dont care for Politics or LeftWing Trash Actions Speak Louder than words even more so now.
Like @notimp mentioned Facebook I dont use it never cared to tell people my Business but all ur Leftwing censoring Conservative opinions or even HongKong now how long do you think before Actions Speak louder than words.
You: WHAAAA!!! BOO HOO!!! *cry cry cry* I'm a pouting brexiteer and I'll try to insult everyone who disagrees with me until they shut up or ignore me!!!!!
Me: wish granted!
@notimp: see? That's how you do it, mate. Don't let trolls get to you into writing long winded epistels. It's not worth it.
@Taleweaver Boo Hoo Nothing CuckBoy Big Man over the Internet.
Just sit in your Office with your Punch Bag in the safety behind your Monitor and Cup of Coffee.
Perhaps the Problem is we can make Europe Great Again like Trump in US no wonder they are doing PREACHMENT Procedures he doing good job.
Europe looks swell doing a great job integrating others in to ur Country perhaps that is ur problem girlfriend or wife prefers them to you.
So Mentally Ill people and Boo Hoo to people who have fought and died well Fuck You Son Shine and ur ignorence exactly what I am talking about.
So people being shot infront off you and bombs going off in the street is a boo hoo joke The Jokes on u.
Just sit in your Office with your Punch Bag in the safety behind your Monitor and Cup of Coffee.
Perhaps the Problem is we can make Europe Great Again like Trump in US no wonder they are doing PREACHMENT Procedures he doing good job.
Europe looks swell doing a great job integrating others in to ur Country perhaps that is ur problem girlfriend or wife prefers them to you.
So Mentally Ill people and Boo Hoo to people who have fought and died well Fuck You Son Shine and ur ignorence exactly what I am talking about.
So people being shot infront off you and bombs going off in the street is a boo hoo joke The Jokes on u.
Last edited by CORE,
*l
My local newspaper calls it "both no-deal brexit and a deal with a brexit have become a bit less likely", but what that means is yet to be seen. Thus far no new elections announced. And despite of a huge-ass demonstration demanding a second referendum (sorry @JoeBloggs777 ...they seemed to be hellbent to bent the knee to the EU
Those protesters are mostly southerners or EU citizens who can't vote anyway. I don't see big protests in cities up north.
There will be an election and my money is on Boris winning with a majority and being able to push his deal or no deal thru Parliament
I think the Labour under estimates how many Labour voters they've manage to
with their betrayal and now will vote for the Tories or the Brexit party at the next election and that's coming from someone who voted labour for more than 30 years.
Sounds like a perfect way to avoid wasting time.You: WHAAAA!!! BOO HOO!!! *cry cry cry* I'm a pouting brexiteer and I'll try to insult everyone who disagrees with me until they shut up or ignore me!!!!!
Me: wish granted!
@notimp: see? That's how you do it, mate. Don't let trolls get to you into writing long winded epistels. It's not worth it.
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I can assure you 99% of Scotland won't be voting for the bloody Tories. Had BoJo not been in charge that figure may have dropped a bit but nobody here wants the Tories in charge especially with that blundering bafoon in charge. Oh and the brexit party have even less of a chance at getting votes here.Those protesters are mostly southerners or EU citizens who can't vote anyway. I don't see big protests in cities up north.
There will be an election and my money is on Boris winning with a majority and being able to push his deal or no deal thru Parliament
I think the Labour under estimates how many Labour voters they've manage to
well I think it will be more than 1% voting for the Tories in Scotland, at the last election the Tories got 28.6% of the vote and as you know the SNP lost 21 seats and were down from 50% of the vote to 36.9%
will the SNP help Boris call a general election soon, maybe and my money is on the Tories winning a majority and pushing thru his Brexit deal
I havent said far left is 'good', I'd much rather have it if you could consider some centrist opinions once in a while instead.
I havent watched the second video. I'll do it today and give feedback.
--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
I havent watched the second video. I'll do it today and give feedback.
--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------
If so labour might just have helped reuniting the tories. It was gossiped, that the main motive for them 'becoming more radical' (BoJo dispelling members of his party) was to get back the Ukip voters.will the SNP help Boris call a general election soon, maybe and my money is on the Tories winning a majority and pushing thru his Brexit deal
Last edited by notimp,
The second video isnt proof - the second video is most likely an old fellow in one of your executive bodies, having a mental breakdown, because he was targeted by propaganda.
This is just a speculative assessment made by me -- but it will be easy to follow up on. Some statements that were made in there -
- The british army will be forced to swear a new oath to someone in brussels.
- Command and control of all your armed forces have been transfered over to the EU, including your secret services.
If that was the case - five eyes would seize to exist (free intelligence information transfer on a pretty much fully encompasing level) - so you would hear about that at some point, sooner than later.
If you hear nothing - it isnt happening.
In Austria, for example the US revoked intelligence cooperation with our former government (because of suspected potential leaks to russia), and the news was everywhere with a day.
If the shakey cam video of the deranged guy was true - america would break intelligence ties almost instantly, because this means, that the aformentionend Austria (f.e.) which is still a EU country...
You see where this is going.
So on the second video especially, that is deranged stuff.
Also . it is a member of parliament (?) asking those questions, not confirming it. And since most of them are basically members for life (in certain constituancies) human error, and even mental breakdowns are expected to happen.
You also can gage the other members reactions which was basically disbelief, if you want to.
So to sum up, a shaky cam video of a deranged person, and a hypothetical encapsulated in a question to parliament - doesnt make proof.
Also - you are following deranged people. As news sources. Which isnt good.
This is just a speculative assessment made by me -- but it will be easy to follow up on. Some statements that were made in there -
- The british army will be forced to swear a new oath to someone in brussels.
- Command and control of all your armed forces have been transfered over to the EU, including your secret services.
If that was the case - five eyes would seize to exist (free intelligence information transfer on a pretty much fully encompasing level) - so you would hear about that at some point, sooner than later.
If you hear nothing - it isnt happening.
In Austria, for example the US revoked intelligence cooperation with our former government (because of suspected potential leaks to russia), and the news was everywhere with a day.
If the shakey cam video of the deranged guy was true - america would break intelligence ties almost instantly, because this means, that the aformentionend Austria (f.e.) which is still a EU country...
You see where this is going.
So on the second video especially, that is deranged stuff.
Also . it is a member of parliament (?) asking those questions, not confirming it. And since most of them are basically members for life (in certain constituancies) human error, and even mental breakdowns are expected to happen.
You also can gage the other members reactions which was basically disbelief, if you want to.
So to sum up, a shaky cam video of a deranged person, and a hypothetical encapsulated in a question to parliament - doesnt make proof.
Also - you are following deranged people. As news sources. Which isnt good.
Last edited by notimp,
The Tories should do a deal with Farage, I'm in a Labour strong hold, the only way to defeat Labour would be for the Tories not to contest the seat and let Labour go against the Brexit party , because the Tories have no chance of winning the seat where I am, but if most Tory voters voted for the Brexit party and many disillusioned Labour voters (like me) would vote for the Brexit party but not vote for a Tory candidate then it possible to defeat Labour.
Also with Labour sat on the fence maybe some Labour remainer voters might vote for the Libs, so making it even more possible to defeat Labour in a safe seat.
this might help Boris get a General election soon
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...ris-johnson-christmas-snp-alex-salmond-latest
From my perspective it would be nice to see BJ make a no deal pact with Farage, we all know they'd win by a landslide. The traitor MP's know this, that's why they're blocking an election. The absolutely irrelevant SNP along with the whole of Scotland know this (please leave already). Even the EU know this, I find it hilarious how the EU says ' we don't want an extension... and yet here they are, just about to grant an extension, gotta hold onto that cash cow as long as possible!
Unfortunately BJ is Theresa May without the thong, his 'deal' is just as bad and so a no deal general election won't happen.
Unfortunately BJ is Theresa May without the thong, his 'deal' is just as bad and so a no deal general election won't happen.
I agree on the first two, and have honestly no idea on the third.Those protesters are mostly southerners or EU citizens who can't vote anyway. I don't see big protests in cities up north.
There will be an election and my money is on Boris winning with a majority and being able to push his deal or no deal thru Parliament
I think the Labour under estimates how many Labour voters they've manage to
London mostly voted remain, so it's not THAT impressive that they have a huge ass demonstration. The brexiteers are geographically more divided.
And speaking of divided : all brexiteers will vote for Johnson, whereas the bremainders will be divided. It's only recent that Corbyn went full remain, so he's not that credible (note : I personally doubt Johnsons credentials on many fronts, but this far I haven't seen him screw up, given his situation).
As to the latter : you could very well be right. Polls often talk about people being fed up with it (and not without reason... It's three fucking years!), but I never saw a poll indicating a massive drop or gain one way or another. In that aspect I understand the resistance against a second referendum... There's not going to be a landslide victory either way.
I can't help it. I have fun looking the terms people come up with to self aggrandize.
I enjoy it. Life is good.
The EU will be hurt with this, the UK will too. It is a tragedy, it was all along.
But I still find funny things coming from it.
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