A favoured style of now uncommon game, consider why it might have gone away.

tempy_thinker.png

Everything has fads but it is a concept especially prominent in computer games. Here you are invited to consider a game style you like but is now uncommon, or at least not reflected in the lineups from the big game makers that might once have had loads of offerings in it, and maybe then why it is so. Equally anything you wish to note about the evolutions in it from what little does continue to this day. Are there any upcoming games that might bring it back?
Right now many are looking at the "battle royale" games* and predicting their eventual downfall, mainly as it is a pattern that has happened before.

*there is the related discussion of game genre names and how tricky that is, however it is wishing to be noted that "battle royale" is a surprisingly good description of the gameplay it encompasses.

Historical examples of such things might include World of Warcraft losing out to MOBA/DOTA style games, one of the main reasons being given that their gameplay style reflected end game style "raids" but without the need to front load it with hundreds of hours of play. As far as gameplay design goes though they are quite hard to justify if aiming to me an intuitive game is something you want to do.
World of Warcraft in turn also seemed to really knock back multiplayer dungeon crawlers like Diablo, Dungeon Siege and Sacred.

Going back further in history then space sims were once all the rage. Trying to be a fan of them from about 1994 until 2014 was a hard thing indeed, and it is still far from easy if you are bored of Elite : Dangerous. Some have argued it was actually technology that held it back -- not enough power to break out of the procedurally generated elite mould and into the fully realised world.

What might have heralded the demise of point and click adventure games? Is their ongoing renaissance that started on the DS and is continuing to phones and tablets doing it for you? They seem to be a lot more "streamlined" than before, effectively eliminating the "rub everything on everything else" style play so common in older ones. Did that come at a cost to the heart of such games?

Have you seen a truly good beat em up like Streets of Rage in recent years? Some do try, especially in the smaller downloadable game/independent world, but why do they not stick.
As it stands you might also ask the same question for games like God of War, Bayonetta, modern Ninja Gaiden, The Bouncer, and Devil May Cry, all of which some would say are the logical progression of the beat em up style into 3d. As this article was being written the review code was offered up for God of War 4, might this reignite the flames here?

Survival horror seems to have faded away. Is it doomed to repeat the same formula of scary, sequel with scary elements, second sequel that is outright action game? On the other hand it is doing surprisingly well in the lower budget/independent game world.

Is the surprisingly popular Fire Emblem a suitable substitute for Advance Wars?

We have not had a skateboarding game that stuck the landing since 2010's Skate 3. Fans of BMX games have had even longer -- 2002 was when Dave Mirra and Mat Hofman both released games in their respective franchises from mainline consoles.
Speaking of gameplay styles popular during such timeframes then where my plastic instruments at?

It has long been noted that it is basically only Nintendo doing the N64/Rare style 3d platformer games these days. Why might that be?

Maybe you are a fan of Amiga style European shmups. The Japanese favoured approach of bullet hell does not lack charm but is not really the same thing. Why did that stick around but the others fade out?

You need not take more mechanical concepts either. Recently some said Call of Duty having a World War 2 entry was a change of pace, anybody else that recalls the years 2000-2007 might well find that odd. As far as reasons for the WW2 trend ending then "utter stagnation" is probably going to be accepted by most, but do you have another theory? It is not like the period is short of compelling stories or theatres of war to look at. You might ask the same question for the futuristic and "modern" settings that bookend that period.

Similarly we have seen some other fads. In the early 2000s every single game seemed like it needed a stealth section. After that "RPG elements" were a thing. The jury is still out on what it amounted to but "roguelike elements" was a thing for a hot moment as well. Anything there you wish to discuss? Was the "frustration" associated with roguelike elements too much for it ever be a long term trend?

This is another entry in GBAtemp's new series contemplating aspects of game design, game mechanics, industry concepts and more besides. We have plenty of things on the list to discuss but suggestions or a guest spot are welcome. Previously we discussed skills one might have learned or honed because of a game. Older entries include games on the PS4 and Xbone that will stand the test of time, games that got better after launch, cancelled games and shuttered devs, and story canon in games
 

felix.200

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I miss proper stealth games (Pandora Tomorrow, Chaos Theory) as well as the Battle Network games.
Yes, we got Star Force, but it wasn't good until the third entry. Even so it is dead at this point and we haven't seen anything like them since.
Modern "stealth" games aren't stealth at all but just action games. I'm playing through Arkham Asylum right now, and It's OK on the stealth, but it feels more like Metroid Prime than Chaos Theory, not that I don't like it, but it's not the same.
Also, what happened to the platofrmers (both 2D and 3D) that had the quirky gimmicks/abilities? I can't name any good examples off the top of my head, aside from examples like Kirby or VVVVVV for some reason. But like a platformer where you had an ability that changed the game, but you were limited and had to think outside the box to use it well. *shrug*
Just my two Zennys I guess.
If you are searching for 2D platformers the Boxboy games are really innovative platformers if you ask me. You should really try them out :)
 
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I do love a good classic scrolling shmup, they do still exist to some degree though, for example the Darius series is still living on, I bought Dariusburst on Steam just last year.

What I miss the most is classic JRPGs. They are still being made to some degree, but I wish I could go back to the time when Final Fantasy games were still good. No RPGs in recent years have been as good as Final Fantasy used to be. The last truly epic JRPG I played was Blue Dragon on 360 and it's exactly what I want from Squeenix but they refuse to make a proper large-scale home console quality classic JRPG, all we get is stuff like Bravely Default, which is fine, but it's nowhere near as good.

Octopath Traveller looks great though. Haven't been this excited for a new JRPG in a long time. I doubt it's going to make me forget about Final Fantasy but at least it's something.

I would say collectathon platformers but they seem to have returned. Yooka-Laylee was a decent attempt and a decent game but I have to say I think I like A Hat in Time better. I'm surprised it took this long for them to return. Besides Nintendo no one else has made them since around the N64, and even Nintendo didn't make any after the Wii until now with Mario Odyssey. If you even count Super Mario Galaxy as a collectathon platformer that is. I suppose technically it is, but it's certainly not in the style we associate with collectathon platformers, which are normally not linear.
It seemed like a huge untapped market, in fact I'm not even sure why they died out in the first place.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


You may like Eldritch, it's a game based on H.P. Lovecraft lore, in the game ammo is very limited and dodging is indeed a viable alternative to fighting in the vast majority of cases.
It's a sort of roguelike game, which I'm not a huge fan of myself, but it does look like a lot of fun despite that.
It has a very Minecrafty aesthetic, but don't let that fool you, it's very different from Minecraft.
I completely agree on the classic final fantasy games being some of the best rpg/turn based games. No, there really hasn't been a good rpg in years. I would be nice to go back to the roots with games like legend of dragoon, the first grandia, xeno gears and a long list of other. Sure there has been a few suprise in the recent years, but not nearly as good.
 

Foxchild

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I miss REAL arcade cabinet games. Today's video arcades are all claw catchers with the odd dance or racing game, maybe a target shooter. Used to love sinking some quarters into Mortal Kombat, or TMNT, or even pinball which you hardly ever see anymore.
 

FAST6191

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I completely agree on the classic final fantasy games being some of the best rpg/turn based games. No, there really hasn't been a good rpg in years. I would be nice to go back to the roots with games like legend of dragoon, the first grandia, xeno gears and a long list of other. Sure there has been a few suprise in the recent years, but not nearly as good.

I have never got the appeal of legend of dragoon, certainly not enough to include it on a list like that. My friend loved it, just could not do it myself.
I found the plot meh, the characters boring and the engine.... so much boredom.

That said it sounds like someone is getting fairly far on with redoing the script http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=25929.0 so I might start with that once it is released.

I miss REAL arcade cabinet games. Today's video arcades are all claw catchers with the odd dance or racing game, maybe a target shooter. Used to love sinking some quarters into Mortal Kombat, or TMNT, or even pinball which you hardly ever see anymore.
That might depend where you are in the world.
I grew up and joined the internet, not long later I heard someone opining on the demise of the arcades. It never happened here though, I had played them all throughout them being "dead" in the US, and continued to play for years more. Mostly in seaside towns but... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/derbyshire/3090539.stm
I tend not to go in them if I am in such places these days but they appear to still be there.
 
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CeeDee

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Two games, fairly mediocre at best, both from small independent devs and one even being partly crowd funded. Both in the last year. Ignoring remakes/rereleases then prior to that you had? Jak and Daxter, whatever became of Spyro, Ratchet & Clank if you squint. I doubt you would pick up a Playstation or xbox during their eras and expect to be able to not miss out much -- not having a PS3 for much of last gen I missed out on God of War, however on my 360 I had Ninja Gaiden, Ninety Nine Nights, I guess Bayonetta, and the list goes on for a while.

Compare say the N64/PS1 era where you had Nintendo and Rare pumping them out fairly rapidly, bunch of the big pubs of the day doing things and more besides. I will give it was not quite as insane as the "mascot platformers" of 16 bit and older but you still had loads on all platforms, save perhaps the PC.
Hey, Hat in Time was damn good. Yooka, not so much, but HiT is pretty darn good
 

FAST6191

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Lost me when you said DotA is a reflection of World of Warcraft end game raid PvE.
I don't know what to say really.

We saw a massive decline in WOW numbers, guilds dropping off and the like as the various DOTA/MOBA things took off. People directly cited those as the reason for their lack of time in WOW and desire to play in raids, and many of those playing it otherwise stated it was like an easier entry into that. Equally watching what goes into a raid and the average DOTA/MOBA of the time it appeared much the same skills got stretched, teamwork gets done and so forth.

To that end I will happily reaffirm that statement.
 

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Another genre of game that I think has mostly died out is the "two tanks fighting each other on a 2d plane" game.
It used to be everywhere, Pocket Tanks and Worms come to mind, but I haven't seen many games do this in a long time, or at least haven't been too popular.
 

sarkwalvein

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Another genre of game that I think has mostly died out is the "two tanks fighting each other on a 2d plane" game.
It used to be everywhere, Pocket Tanks and Worms come to mind, but I haven't seen many games do this in a long time, or at least haven't been too popular.
Don't forget the classic MS-DOS QBasic included demo game "Banana" (I think that was the name?)

PS: Lol, it was called Gorillas... close. /s
 
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The Real Jdbye

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I miss REAL arcade cabinet games. Today's video arcades are all claw catchers with the odd dance or racing game, maybe a target shooter. Used to love sinking some quarters into Mortal Kombat, or TMNT, or even pinball which you hardly ever see anymore.
Claw catchers with video? What? :P
Anyway, you can still find good arcades with both modern (as modern as arcade games get anyway) and classic arcades, and a large selection of them. You might have to look a little and it might not be near you. But hey, at least they exist.
Though the same places also tend to have a bunch of claw machines and similar things like Key Master.
 
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FateForWindows

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Claw catchers with video? What? :P
Anyway, you can still find good arcades with both modern (as modern as arcade games get anyway) and classic arcades, and a large selection of them. You might have to look a little and it might not be near you. But hey, at least they exist.
Though the same places also tend to have a bunch of claw machines and similar things like Key Master.
Trust me, they're pretty common, at least in the part of the US where I live.
 

DS1

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This is a great one, it was actually going to be the topic of my next 'hot take' blog, lol. I think the major issue for the genres I like is that they were mainly championed by mid-size Japanese devs that stood no chance when Sony pushed out the PS3. The only one that seemed to have taken it with grace was From Software, but that's no different than the fact that someone wins the lottery (nobody speaks of the hundreds of millions of losers).

So beat-em-ups are a sore spot for me. While I think the games mentioned as the 'logical progression' of the genre into 3D (and I'd also add Urban Reign, the crowning jewel of '3D beat-em-ups' and maybe even video games in general) are a great point, we also have games like Kenka Banchou (the evolution of the River City Ransom/Kunio-kun games) and Ikki Tousen/Senran Kagura (what should have been the resurrection of the beat-em-up genre, but handled rather sloppily). All of the above have more or less died out, and ironically, there have been more River City Ransom reboots in the past few years than Kenka Banchou or the like.

Unique Japanese history ninja/samurai games have been lacking as of late. Way of the Samurai 4 is not 7 years old. The last Tenchu was 9 years ago, Shinobido 2, 6 years (the latter unfortunately rushed out as a Vita launch release, missing the features that made the original interesting). I've wanted to get my hands on Ni-Oh because at least it's something, if fantastical.

My absolute #1 dead genre, very unlikely ever to be revived, despite its ardent fans dying for a new release is fun racing games with real cars. The Gran Turismo games went from mediocre car-collecting exhibitions to (to their own admission) a full-on simulation to rival and in some ways surpass PC titles like iRacing and Live for Speed. Likewise, few people dare announce a racing game without pushing the realism and online components (neither of those things intrinsically make a game fun). Games with a more arcade-edge have been limited to Japanese arcades (go figure), with no possibility or reason to have a console release of Initial D or Wangan Midnight. Trashy racers like Need for Speed have only gone further towards the cinematic boredom that clouds other western releases. We'll just never have another Tokyo Xtreme Racer - no doubt because the subculture is no longer popular in Japan.

On the bright side, one genre I appreciated as a kid - the isometric PC strategy game (Commandos) has actually been revived in Shadow Tactics. Unlike other revivals, they really hit their mark on that one.
 

medoli900

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If you had brought this topic a year or two back, I would have said good 3D platformer. I had to return to the gamecube era to find those, until Mario Odyssey and the remaster of Bubsy the Cat, Crash Bandicoot and soon Spyro the Dragon. Now I must say that I am pretty satisfied with the kind of game we have. I never really liked racing car game, aside Mario Kart, and they were all the rage in the Xbox era. I don't like beat 'em up (unless you call Fire Emblem Warriors and Hyrule Warriors beat 'em up).

I guess I could say that I would like the bullet hell genre to resurface, but I discovered that genre pretty recently, so I still have a whole library of great danmaku to play.
 

FAST6191

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This is a great one, it was actually going to be the topic of my next 'hot take' blog, lol. I think the major issue for the genres I like is that they were mainly championed by mid-size Japanese devs that stood no chance when Sony pushed out the PS3. The only one that seemed to have taken it with grace was From Software, but that's no different than the fact that someone wins the lottery (nobody speaks of the hundreds of millions of losers).

So beat-em-ups are a sore spot for me. While I think the games mentioned as the 'logical progression' of the genre into 3D (and I'd also add Urban Reign, the crowning jewel of '3D beat-em-ups' and maybe even video games in general) are a great point, we also have games like Kenka Banchou (the evolution of the River City Ransom/Kunio-kun games) and Ikki Tousen/Senran Kagura (what should have been the resurrection of the beat-em-up genre, but handled rather sloppily). All of the above have more or less died out, and ironically, there have been more River City Ransom reboots in the past few years than Kenka Banchou or the like.

Unique Japanese history ninja/samurai games have been lacking as of late. Way of the Samurai 4 is not 7 years old. The last Tenchu was 9 years ago, Shinobido 2, 6 years (the latter unfortunately rushed out as a Vita launch release, missing the features that made the original interesting). I've wanted to get my hands on Ni-Oh because at least it's something, if fantastical.

My absolute #1 dead genre, very unlikely ever to be revived, despite its ardent fans dying for a new release is fun racing games with real cars. The Gran Turismo games went from mediocre car-collecting exhibitions to (to their own admission) a full-on simulation to rival and in some ways surpass PC titles like iRacing and Live for Speed. Likewise, few people dare announce a racing game without pushing the realism and online components (neither of those things intrinsically make a game fun). Games with a more arcade-edge have been limited to Japanese arcades (go figure), with no possibility or reason to have a console release of Initial D or Wangan Midnight. Trashy racers like Need for Speed have only gone further towards the cinematic boredom that clouds other western releases. We'll just never have another Tokyo Xtreme Racer - no doubt because the subculture is no longer popular in Japan.

On the bright side, one genre I appreciated as a kid - the isometric PC strategy game (Commandos) has actually been revived in Shadow Tactics. Unlike other revivals, they really hit their mark on that one.

I think I would make the same remark, but for one generation on. A lot of the stuff I like would have taken a top tier dev on the PS2 to pull off but could be done on the PS360 by a "compile and hope" type dev. While the PS4/xbone should have made that easier then it seems not.

On beat-em-ups it was more the slew of mediocre ones that clogged up XBLA a few years back that got to me. Scott Pilgrim (which I don't think you can even get any more) was kind of OK, but seeing the ninja/hero turtles effort and all the others... urgh. A lot of them would probably not even have held up in the early 16 bit era. This made all the odder for me by there being quite a few indy platformers that more than pull it off.

Now that I think about it they are far rarer than they used to be but I would not say they were gone. Did trackmania not do it for you?

That's an older one and there are new ones, all confusingly still called trackmania 2 but with subtitles.
Strictly speaking it does not feature licensed cars but... it is a user mod driven affair. If you go looking at reviews I do tend to find them brought down by those that enjoy the car game equivalent of the grim und gritty trend in shooting games, those that were there for the PS1/N64-early PS2 times seem to do OK though.

Japanese games about Japan... there do seem to be rather fewer historical ones of late if I ignore the ? warriors series (which I do intend to continue to do). I don't know if it is modern, or at least 80s, that caught on over there. Somewhat amusingly it seems we have a whole slew of European history based ones of late.

If you had brought this topic a year or two back, I would have said good 3D platformer. I had to return to the gamecube era to find those, until Mario Odyssey and the remaster of Bubsy the Cat, Crash Bandicoot and soon Spyro the Dragon. Now I must say that I am pretty satisfied with the kind of game we have. I never really liked racing car game, aside Mario Kart, and they were all the rage in the Xbox era. I don't like beat 'em up (unless you call Fire Emblem Warriors and Hyrule Warriors beat 'em up).

I guess I could say that I would like the bullet hell genre to resurface, but I discovered that genre pretty recently, so I still have a whole library of great danmaku to play.
I did say ignoring remasters/rereleases. I did banjo and the other rare efforts the first time around.

Bullet hell and things that fall from it, not every Japanese effort is strictly a bullet hell but they kind of all fall from it in the same way that things all aped doom, goldeneye or halo for a while, was also the one that stuck around -- the 360 got loads of the things https://gbatemp.net/threads/ps3-and-360-exclusives-a-discussion.360416/
Go for the styles of shmup favoured in the US and Europe in the 80s, ones Japan even put out a few in, and that is quite a bit harder

It is not impossible to find any, the DS got a handful, but would be arcade/home console style ones are harder to source.
 
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Geezerdorf

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arcade style fighting games a la 90s MK and SF, the new ones just don't feel the same

Also worth noting is SNK's outings. Garou MOTW and the KOF series are really fun to play through, if you have the patience. AOF3's animation is fantastic to look at. Their more muted color palette and detailed shading was a great foil to Capcom's colorful and cartoony style.
There have been attempts to get back to that type of "fair and balanced play". Capcom unfortunately doesn't seem to be the most appropriate for this anymore (looking at you SF5 and MvCI[RIP]) for its franchises, but at least, SNK has had a lot of good resurgence lately. KoF14 is really and i mean really nice, and gets closer to the old vibe of arcade fighting games from them, but it's still far from it.
I'd like the companies to take more risks, as they did before. Also, to finish off some unconclusive stories, like Garou (Fatal Fury).
Part of that style used for the AoF series was because they risked to be different by making more "realistic" sprites, or so they tried to sell the game (I still hold AoF 2's sprites as one of the most impressive looking ones for its time)

Pokemon clones.
The GB/GBC and GBA provided severally really nice alternatives, especially as I find pokemon itself to be quite samey and boring. Today I have... Yo-Kai Watch. No thanks.
The problem with them is exactly that: Having to compete with pokemon. Many tried to do it, and had excellent concepts, but the fact that they didn't have the reception or the impact that pokemon had, they just dwindled down until they disapperared. I do miss a couple of them. Azure Dreams was one of the greater ones, but if there's a serie that i loved on that matter, was Keitai Denjuu Telefang. Cellphone Monsters Telefang was really funny, and the mechanic they used with the phone numbers was a great fad for the game. I was crushed when they only managed to get a sort of sequel in the likes of a GBA game.
Plus, the music was really good!


I guess that some of the Megaten series games could be considered as well, but i'd like to see another take of this genre, just to see how different can they approach the idea, in contrast to Pokemon. Monster hunter Stories was a really good attempt. Too bad Capcom, once again, seems to ignore the fact that they did that game, and is just concentrating on MHW and managing to preserve SF5.


There's a genre that i see being laid dormant since a long, long time ago, and the fact that no one even mentioned it makes me worry all the time: Dog Fight simulators.
I'm one of those guys that grew up with flying simulator games even on Atari2600 (boy if we advanced against those controls with just a stick and a button! Damn you Tomcat F-14!); a lot of them were extraordinarily good when it came to controls and story, as well as some with simple, yet arcade-y feels that fulfilled my desires to get on a plane and fight in the air.
I'm shattered to see that the last(good) one we saw these days was Ace Combat Assault: Horizon Legacy+. I really loved the idea of remaking the old Ace Combat games like this one (which was AC2). Man, i would kill for a remake of Ace Combat 4 or Zero for this matter...but sadly, after the fiasco with AC Online and the little success they've had recently, Project Aces and Bamco seem to have left it to fade away, once more.
There were also a lot of these on PC back in the 2000's. I've got a lot of theories about why they have disappeared, but nothing certain.
I miss Sturmovik as well...
 
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FAST6191

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On telefang I assume you saw https://gbatemp.net/threads/telefang-2-full-translation-patch.346322/

A few of them did stick around in Japan -- medabots RPG (medarot in Japan) did stay for the DS and even 3ds as well.

As for combat flight sims I never quite got into them. Got a pack of whole bunch of them once (remember those?) when I first got a half reasonable PC capable of doing things. Think I even tripped over one of the remaining ones the other day but never quite got into them like I have for other game styles. I don't know quite why as I really enjoy combat space sims.
I imagine it probably faced the same problem as horror games (popular enough to take note, not quite enough to sustain a massive dev budget), and then we got HAWX. I was going to say something about the stuff we saw on the 360 towards the end, but then I remembered a previous thread in this series https://gbatemp.net/threads/the-games-you-will-keep-for-your-ps4-and-xbox-one.499105/
 

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On telefang I assume you saw https://gbatemp.net/threads/telefang-2-full-translation-patch.346322/

A few of them did stick around in Japan -- medabots RPG (medarot in Japan) did stay for the DS and even 3ds as well.

Oh, certainly! I saw the translation for the game a played it for a while, but after i played it in japanese and saw certain "inconsistencies" with context, decided to play it unpatched for that matter.

I was a huge fan of Medarot on the DS era; the problem with that is that i was the only one which had the game, so i couldn't play with anybody else (locally)
Don't know what happened to Medarot after Girls or whatever it was called. Maybe i should retry that series.

As for combat flight sims I never quite got into them. Got a pack of whole bunch of them once (remember those?) when I first got a half reasonable PC capable of doing things. Think I even tripped over one of the remaining ones the other day but never quite got into them like I have for other game styles. I don't know quite why as I really enjoy combat space sims.
I imagine it probably faced the same problem as horror games (popular enough to take note, not quite enough to sustain a massive dev budget), and then we got HAWX. I was going to say something about the stuff we saw on the 360 towards the end, but then I remembered a previous thread in this series https://gbatemp.net/threads/the-games-you-will-keep-for-your-ps4-and-xbox-one.499105/

Could that pack be the one with Flight Combat Simulators and the IL-Sturmovik series? It was a quite popular one on its time.
And i don't think that those two reasons are the only ones, i'm thinking that they also faced the problem of "not being popular enough as their projected expectations".
A lot of companies seem to be making that move, even if the fanbase of a game is near of getting the numbers they desire to see.
(I'm still in shock with the AC franchise about this; same goes with HAWX[but i guess that had to do with the fact that they wanted to advance the story and thus push it to a huge what if?])
 
Last edited by Geezerdorf,

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