Do you believe Russia hacked the US election?

A Plus Ric · Jan 2, 2017

Given millions Healthcare? Let's put it his way. They made it more beneficial to not work than to work. At our gas station the workers are asking my brother to lower their hours from 25 to 15, because at 25 hrs, even at Super low pay, they cannot afford the Healthcare as almost all the money is going to it. Just because you like to look at a positive side doesn't make it right. Read up on what it actually is. 90 percent of those who jumped on, woulda got free Healthcare in most states already, they just are now forced to it.

Xzi · Jan 2, 2017

Foxi4 said:
You're oversimplifying the matter. The government can't give anyone anything because it doesn't own jack - it can only take from some to give to others, but mostly to themselves. Many people simply can't afford healthcare anymore under the current rules or their coverage was greatly reduced.

I am, but the matter was oversimplified to begin with. The US healthcare system before Obamacare was hemorrhaging money. It would've added so much more to the national debt before he left office if he had done nothing.

People don't understand that taxpayers end up footing the bill when somebody has to go to the ER but they don't have insurance.

Smiths · Jan 2, 2017

the_randomizer said:
But the timing of the leak was too good, just after Trump got elected, but had Clinton got elected, they would've brushed it aside.

The leaks were going on since before the actual voting took place. I knew something was up with your rhetoric and was just watiting to see how far you'd move your goalposts of the "you lost get over it" statement that is the talking point for your "team".

Some of us don't have teams in this except TEAM AMERICA (f*** yeah). If you think Trump is "your" party, you're duped. Goldman Sachs was evil until multiple people from GS were appointed into his cabinet. Russia was an enemy until he said they weren't. The swamp needed to be drained until the same old names came in. Pay for Play was the most horrible thing ever by Hillary until Trump appointed his largest donor (McMahon) as head of Small Business Department.

Again, majority have moved on to the "he won" party. It's people like you still keeping it in the "Hillary Lost, you can't change it" field. The recounts were not about making Hillary win from this side; I heard so many doubts about the system from the winner AFTER he won (millions of illegals, i won this i woulda won that) that I was saying out loud "then let's just count all votes again then!" in the interest of voter transparency.

I'm in a 100% blue state; it goes blue for everything without fail. The Governor is only (R) now because he ran against a (D) who seriously had two things for his campaign: Worked with previous governor and was black (where I am, that's not a racist statement; it literally was what the guy was banking on). I voted for the (R).

Trust me, if the current names being mentioned to run against him step up he probably will lose because the other folks have actual plans and history. That's besides the point though.

The point is: you need to move on and look at what is in front of you right now. That's what we're looking at. For all your "team"'s hate of the 'Deplorable' label, there doesn't seem to be any backlash to a guy calling over 50% of the voting population "enemies" before he's even in office. Obama never declared the people who voted against him as "enemies".

Trump has done nothing to showcase unity; he thrives instead on the chaos and separation. He issues his edicts from his ivory tower or golf course resort and lets you come here on forums to cheer your team. The truth is he'd never talk to you or listen to you at all. He's made that clear.

That's the thing people are nervous about.

And Obama did a TON of good for the country whether you care to admit it or not. There was bad (drone strikes in particular I have major issues with) and I am still pissed no one came along to "Patch" the ACA like it was intended. Instead they released v1.0, called it "Obamacare" and said "we'll never patch it". The bottom line is as shitty as premiums went for some (not all), the bleeding was stopped a bit by the ACA OVERALL. They have never gone done and they will never go down. Until our country adopts the modern world's healthcare (Single Payer), we are a corporate health system. Trump and Republicans cannot change that. It's retarded.

Of course the general standing of your "team" and the reason the groundswell of support for the lies and grandstanding worked was easy. It's called "FUCK YOU GOT MINE".

People got tired of helping others in the country for 8 years while watching their own business die or jobs not coming back for coal and went "this guy will give me MINE" and bought the fish oil.

Coal ain't coming back. Hillary ain't being locked up. The wall will be a fence if anything. Promise after promise will be broken and you'll realize the system you voted to change is the same as it's ever been and soon your "team" will turn on him. And everyone you bitched at as "sore losers" and told to "move on" will just look at your foxboy avatar and go "yeah, we're playing Mario Basketball. Told ya so. Sucks, huh?"

A Plus Ric · Jan 2, 2017

Xzi said:
I am, but the matter was oversimplified to begin with. The US healthcare system before Obamacare was hemorrhaging money. It would've added so much more to the national debt before he left office if he had done nothing.

People don't understand that taxpayers end up footing the bill when somebody has to go to the ER but they don't have insurance.

Blue cross blue shield is at an all time high in profits. Healthcare Reform should have been on hospitals and doctors outrageous pricing that they give just because they can, not on taxpayers compensating by going from 150 a month to 450 a month for coverage. And once you get new plans through it, you can't even have your same doctors, time to find new ones. Such a great system.

Smiths · Jan 2, 2017

A Plus Ric said:
Tons of shit gets hacked all the time. Months and years go by and the FBI and CIA barely figure out who did it. Yet they confirm Russia did this fast? Laughable.

And if they had actual proof and evidence.....do you really think they wouldn't push for a re VOTE?

Again, it's not about hacking results (seriously Costello, fuck your wording I love you but fuck your wording). It's about targeted influencing.

You can argue MSM sources ran hit pieces against Trump and were in the bag for Hillary, but we have EQUAL TIME LAWS in America that say no matter how much they write about one candidate, they HAVE to write about the other. This is why the e-mail server kept being brought up. The problem with Trump vs Hillary was: Trump kept saying dumb shit and doing dumb shit. The idiot media would report on eVERYTHING he did (free airtime), then have to rehash Clinton shit and even dumb conspiracies due to the the LAWS.

The influencing by targeted hacking and a trickle of releasing is a completely separate issue from the media being stupid. It was 100% targeted and 100% designed to discredit ONE party and person.
And if they have ANYTHING on the RNC or Trump, you should be just as concerned because blackmail is very real and who the hell wants the President of their country to be susceptible to blackmail from a foreign country.

And the reason they concluded it so fast and why it isn't "LAUGHABLE" is because they were bragging about it and Trump is on tape at a speech thanking them for it and asking them (even jokingly it's treasonous) to hack Hillary's email more.

They caught China's breaching quickly too and did a lot of behind the scenes against them and have said the "normal" breaches (which is scary in general) have subsided since.

Xzi · Jan 2, 2017

A Plus Ric said:
Blue cross blue shield is at an all time high in profits. Healthcare Reform should have been on hospitals and doctors outrageous pricing that they give just because they can, not on taxpayers compensating by going from 150 a month to 450 a month for coverage. And once you get new plans through it, you can't even have your same doctors, time to find new ones. Such a great system.

I don't understand the logic here. "Corporations are fucking me over big time...hey, let's elect the most corporately-entrenched republican candidate that there's ever been!" Things can only get worse from here, so much worse. It'll only be after Trump repeals Obamacare (assuming he does, he's been flip-flopping on that lately), that the underlying problems with our healthcare system will become clearer. You won't be able to look past the economic effects.

A Plus Ric · Jan 2, 2017

My point is, if they can't find the people stealing your credit card info, do not believe they are finding the alleged hacking being done.

Smiths said:
Again, it's not about hacking results (seriously Costello, fuck your wording I love you but fuck your wording). It's about targeted influencing.

You can argue MSM sources ran hit pieces against Trump and were in the bag for Hillary, but we have EQUAL TIME LAWS in America that say no matter how much they write about one candidate, they HAVE to write about the other. This is why the e-mail server kept being brought up. The problem with Trump vs Hillary was: Trump kept saying dumb shit and doing dumb shit. The idiot media would report on eVERYTHING he did (free airtime), then have to rehash Clinton shit and even dumb conspiracies due to the the LAWS.

The influencing by targeted hacking and a trickle of releasing is a completely separate issue from the media being stupid. It was 100% targeted and 100% designed to discredit ONE party and person.
And if they have ANYTHING on the RNC or Trump, you should be just as concerned because blackmail is very real and who the hell wants the President of their country to be susceptible to blackmail from a foreign country.

And the reason they concluded it so fast and why it isn't "LAUGHABLE" is because they were bragging about it and Trump is on tape at a speech thanking them for it and asking them (even jokingly it's treasonous) to hack Hillary's email more.

They caught China's breaching quickly too and did a lot of behind the scenes against them and have said the "normal" breaches (which is scary in general) have subsided since.

So you belive it to be true, from people who said Iraq has WMDS and Cuba has WMDS and yet can't find out who stole your credit card information and used it? Wanting to belive you will always see it there. Proving it is different, influences or not. That's the point

Uncanny · Jan 2, 2017

Well, i wouldnt call that "hacking"

FAST6191 · Jan 2, 2017

Memoir said:
Also keep in mind that if popular vote won, the states with the largest population have the biggest influence.

It's easy to claim a system is rigged or broken when it doesn't go in your favor. You can throw your fits.. but it happens every 4 years. Your choice either wins or loses. If you win, you tell people to get over it. If you lose, you call foul. Can't please everyone.

Then why go by state. Sum population /total votes from everywhere should be doable.

Also is this a win-loss thing? What happens if you have no real skin in the game (hard to argue for the US with it being a country with serious influence outside its borders but not impossible and otherwise possible to be reduced to a manageable/academic level) are more a fan of systems and want to see good ones?

Smiths · Jan 2, 2017

Foxi4 said:
As long as he runs the country like a business you should be perfectly fine.

Sir, this is retarded. We don't know how he ran his businesses. The government can't function like a business either due to that pesky Constitution and Representation and Checks and Balances.

One tax release would help everyone so much, but that was another broken promise of his. All we know is he lost a billion dollars and has used existing loopholes to avoid paying federal taxes and says that's "Smart". So federal highways and roads have not had a dime from Donald. And sadly that's a grain of sand in the greater beach that is the unknown about his business.

Foxi4 · Jan 2, 2017

Smiths said:
Again, it's not about hacking results (seriously Costello, fuck your wording I love you but fuck your wording). It's about targeted influencing.

You can argue MSM sources ran hit pieces against Trump and were in the bag for Hillary, but we have EQUAL TIME LAWS in America that say no matter how much they write about one candidate, they HAVE to write about the other. This is why the e-mail server kept being brought up. The problem with Trump vs Hillary was: Trump kept saying dumb shit and doing dumb shit. The idiot media would report on eVERYTHING he did (free airtime), then have to rehash Clinton shit and even dumb conspiracies due to the the LAWS.

The influencing by targeted hacking and a trickle of releasing is a completely separate issue from the media being stupid. It was 100% targeted and 100% designed to discredit ONE party and person.
And if they have ANYTHING on the RNC or Trump, you should be just as concerned because blackmail is very real and who the hell wants the President of their country to be susceptible to blackmail from a foreign country.

And the reason they concluded it so fast and why it isn't "LAUGHABLE" is because they were bragging about it and Trump is on tape at a speech thanking them for it and asking them (even jokingly it's treasonous) to hack Hillary's email more.

They caught China's breaching quickly too and did a lot of behind the scenes against them and have said the "normal" breaches (which is scary in general) have subsided since.

Sure, the Russians started their mind control machines and told people what to do with a blast of Gamma rays.

By the way, since we're talking about targeted campaigns to discredit candidates, I wonder what was the benefit of running stories about Trump supposedly being a pervert on national television, or blasting him non stop by calling him a racist, a sexist, a misogynist and probably a reptilian too. Do you think mainstream coverage was fair? Far more people follow the mainstream media, Wikileaks are for Internet nolives like us who have no say and are few in numbers.

Smiths · Jan 2, 2017

A Plus Ric said:
My point is, if they can't find the people stealing your credit card info, do not believe they are finding the alleged hacking being done.

So you belive it to be true, from people who said Iraq has WMDS and Cuba has WMDS and yet can't find out who stole your credit card information and used it? Wanting to belive you will always see it there. Proving it is different, influences or not. That's the point

I love the goalpost shift to the WMDs. The WMDs were Cheney pushing crap and lies and I didn't believe that at all.
I believe 17 agencies and I fully believe the ONLY reason Obama went forward with this shit is he was relying on common human decency after the election in hoping Republicans would be HUMANS and go "hey.. some shady shit happened, maybe we should speak about it"... then time went on and they went LA LA LA FUCK YOU GOT MINE so he had to go "oh screw it I'll have to step in"

If anything he erred in not stepping in earlier but he rightly said if he did that before the election you would never have heard the end of it.

And what the hell do you mean they can't find the people stealing my credit card? They know the country 99% of the time if it's a FEDERAL thing. Jesus how old are you? Do you vote?

Viri · Jan 2, 2017

Yes, obv Russia hacked her brain, and told her not to campaign even ONCE in Wisconsin. Hey, at least Hillary broke the "glass ceiling" and became the candidate with the most faithless electors.

osaka35 · Jan 2, 2017

Foxi4 said:
That's not an argument against the electoral college. Were the president elected by the Senate, it would not only be more efficient and less time-consuming, it would also eliminate uneducated voting as a factor in the election. Senators were already given their powers in an election, there's no reason why they couldn't vote on their constituent's behalf - they do it every single day regardless. Elections would be far more simplistic and less prone to politics of appeasement and populist policy.

i think faith in the process is an important aspect as well. I doubt it'd be efficeint, though, in our current climate. too many games of chicken. and intelligence isn't a prerequisite for office

.

personally, i'm fine with letting the masses choose the highest office. makes the people have more political power than otherwise, and usually that should mean a push for a better education. the left tends to do better with more education, the right tends to do better with less. dunno why though.

the electorial college almost always votes how the people voted, so i don't see too much harm in them. personally, i'd like to see a change to the first-past-the-post and take out the bigger-bank-balance diplomacy mandate for something better. it'd be a nice change of pace.

Foxi4 · Jan 2, 2017

Smiths said:
Sir, this is retarded. We don't know how he ran his businesses. The government can't function like a business either due to that pesky Constitution and Representation and Checks and Balances.

One tax release would help everyone so much, but that was another broken promise of his. All we know is he lost a billion dollars and has used existing loopholes to avoid paying federal taxes and says that's "Smart". So federal highways and roads have not had a dime from Donald. And sadly that's a grain of sand in the greater beach that is the unknown about his business.

Why do you want to know his taxes? There's no legal requirement of him releasing his private financial information. As for his companies, they're on the stock market, their records are public to a great extent, you can look them up anytime.

A Plus Ric · Jan 2, 2017

Xzi said:
I don't understand the logic here. "Corporations are fucking me over big time...hey, let's elect the most corporately-entrenched republican candidate that there's ever been!" Things can only get worse from here, so much worse. It'll only be after Trump repeals Obamacare (assuming he does, he's been flip-flopping on that lately), that the underlying problems with our healthcare system will become clearer. You won't be able to look past the economic effects.

Your theory is flawed. Corporations know how to spend less. So far he's also got Boeing agreeing to a lower price and not raping taxpayers to make Air force One. He won't listen to guys who funded him, as he funded himself and has no loyalty to big pharmacy for it. He believes better education will fix the country, which, that is how you fix stuff, you better educate. You just live in the nonsensical world of TV and Media tell me the truth (when it's the truth I want it to be because I am Bias)

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Foxi4 said:
Why do you want to know his taxes? There's no legal requirement of him releasing his private financial information. As for his companies, they're on the stock market, their records are public to a great extent, you can look them up anytime.

Because America thinks the points in the world are what do you pay in taxes, do u like or hate gays, do you like guns. Lol sums up the idiots of our country.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Smiths said:
I love the goalpost shift to the WMDs. The WMDs were Cheney pushing crap and lies and I didn't believe that at all.
I believe 17 agencies and I fully believe the ONLY reason Obama went forward with this shit is he was relying on common human decency after the election in hoping Republicans would be HUMANS and go "hey.. some shady shit happened, maybe we should speak about it"... then time went on and they went LA LA LA FUCK YOU GOT MINE so he had to go "oh screw it I'll have to step in"

If anything he erred in not stepping in earlier but he rightly said if he did that before the election you would never have heard the end of it.

And what the hell do you mean they can't find the people stealing my credit card? They know the country 99% of the time if it's a FEDERAL thing. Jesus how old are you? Do you vote?

I love how our are attacking it to discredit the truth. The problem is, you believe them. That's on you. Not me. I'm on evidence and research. Take my word for it, doesn't cut it. You need to educate yourself. They know the country on federal things because they need to target those countries so we can add more money into the military, and their research. I used the examples because those are real and you tried to sift aside the other example, so why not more of the same situation. Educate yourself.

Smiths · Jan 2, 2017

Foxi4 said:
Sure, the Russians started their mind control machines and told people what to do with a blast of Gamma rays.

By the way, since we're talking about targeted campaigns to discredit candidates, I wonder what was the benefit of running stories about Trump supposedly being a pervert on national television, or blasting him non stop by calling him a racist, a sexist, a misogynist and probably a reptilian too. Do you think mainstream coverage was fair? Far more people follow the mainstream media, Wikileaks are for Internet nolives like us who have no say and are few in numbers.

Actually the election proved the numbers are not as small as you'd think. The rallies which were televised was where he spoke about the leaks, the MSM with his people on spoke about the leaks.
What was the benefit of Bannon trotting out Bill Clinton's people (in the 'he started it' war I guess we can go to that). The problem is people didn't care how dirty Donald is (and he is), all they knew was he wasn't her and didn't represent her or the system she was in. She was a horrible candidate no doubt and really only seemed to be running because it was "her turn".

Unfortunately, Donald has gone right into the swamp, made it worse, and gone against everything he said already in stocking it.

Back to your "Gamma rays"... be real here for a second sir... people are stupid. people in groups are even stupider. All they need to hear is a constant stream of negative leaks and channels (Fox News) just talking non stop about them.

People here still think Hillary's private stupid server was the source of the e-mails. They don't care.
People are very easily influenced, and you can see it in this thread by the people shifting goalposts and spouting untruths that their new president spouted. For a whole "you believe the government where is evidence" we sure are hearing about the illegals in California in the same thread.

So again, sorry sir... but the illegally hacked emails being leaked in the pattern they were... if it swayed any votes... holds this whole poll question true: Russian influenced the Election. Period.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Foxi4 said:
Why do you want to know his taxes? There's no legal requirement of him releasing his private financial information. As for his companies, they're on the stock market, their records are public to a great extent, you can look them up anytime.

No, his closed hotels and the dealings are not on the stock market. How old are you? There's no legal requirement, no shit. That's the deflection the "tax" question gets (goalpost shift). The bottom line is it's the issue of transparency, which you seem to favor in the form of hacked and leaked e-mails but not in the form of who gets to run the country.

Hypocrisy under the guise of FYGM, yet again.

HtheB · Jan 2, 2017

What has this to do with GBATemp frontpage news? :/

A Plus Ric · Jan 2, 2017

Smiths said:
Actually the election proved the numbers are not as small as you'd think. The rallies which were televised was where he spoke about the leaks, the MSM with his people on spoke about the leaks.
What was the benefit of Bannon trotting out Bill Clinton's people (in the 'he started it' war I guess we can go to that). The problem is people didn't care how dirty Donald is (and he is), all they knew was he wasn't her and didn't represent her or the system she was in. She was a horrible candidate no doubt and really only seemed to be running because it was "her turn".

Unfortunately, Donald has gone right into the swamp, made it worse, and gone against everything he said already in stocking it.

Back to your "Gamma rays"... be real here for a second sir... people are stupid. people in groups are even stupider. All they need to hear is a constant stream of negative leaks and channels (Fox News) just talking non stop about them.

People here still think Hillary's private stupid server was the source of the e-mails. They don't care.
People are very easily influenced, and you can see it in this thread by the people shifting goalposts and spouting untruths that their new president spouted. For a whole "you believe the government where is evidence" we sure are hearing about the illegals in California in the same thread.

So again, sorry sir... but the illegally hacked emails being leaked in the pattern they were... if it swayed any votes... holds this whole poll question true: Russian influenced the Election. Period.

Your are a tool of the media. Lol end of story. This response just showed you have no clue and CNN is most of your education on politics or anything worldwide. We really here to teach, you just have to want to learn. Influence lol if these were against Trump you would be hailing them in the face of every American and saying "This guy is shit, look all all this nonsense". Then saying "it wasn't influence it was the truth."

Xzi · Jan 2, 2017

Foxi4 said:
By the way, since we're talking about targeted campaigns to discredit candidates, I wonder what was the benefit of running stories about Trump supposedly being a pervert on national television, or blasting him non stop by calling him a racist, a sexist, a misogynist and probably a reptilian too. Do you think mainstream coverage was fair?

Hell, the coverage of him was too kind if anything. This is a man that was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and up his ass. Much like GWB, his dad/friends of Donald's dad did everything for him his entire life. He dodged the draft (twice I think), and completely destroyed his mind on cocaine, while simultaneously building his ego with the delusion that he's a "great businessman." By his own admission he's only made it this far in life by amassing debt and owed favors to a lot of third parties. Don't assume Russia is the only foreign power involved.

More importantly perhaps you just have to look at who he's put into his cabinet so far and you'll see that even the most extreme detractors were right about him. Former lobbyists, oil CEOs, and generals. People who have no experience with politics or governing. Trump can die in a fire for what he's done to this country, and I'll be there to piss on his grave after he does.

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