Do you believe Russia hacked the US election?

Xzi · Jan 2, 2017

The one bright side here is that now we get to watch Trump's administration fail spectacularly and watch his supporters scramble for excuses. He's already broken nearly all of his campaign promises. Not gonna prosecute Hillary, not gonna build a wall that's "necessarily physical," not gonna drain the swamp because he already filled his cabinet with swamp-dwellers. Trump may have set a record as the president-elect quickest to throw his base under the bus.

Supster131 · Jan 2, 2017

Not gonna bother with reading 9 pages of stuff, so.
Anyways, I believe that Russia did not "hack" the U.S election.

And even if they did, wouldn't the democrats be hypocrites? They rigged the primaries against Bernie, so they have no right to talk.

jimbo13 · Jan 2, 2017

Xzi said:
We shouldn't conflate interference in an election with mass surveillance. These days most countries do mass surveillance on their own citizens, and very often in cases where they don't, they contract other countries to do mass surveillance on their citizens for them. Unfortunately we don't really have to hack anyone to get the information we want, it's probably already available to us.

Are you fuckin serious? Google you idiot, use it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ence-agencies-russia-behind-hacking/92514592/

You keep using that word idiot, because you have No evidence.

Every expert that has examined the report of the NICS has said it has no Evidence, and it states on the first page the report is an opinion of suspect and contains NO CONCLUSIONS.

http://www.truthdig.com/eartothegro...nvinced_by_fbi_and_homeland_security_20161230

U.S today giving their opinion on a report is not evidence.

You know why?

Because there is no fucking evidence idiot.

If there was evidence you would state what it is instead of insulting people fucking safe space dwelling leftist muslim worshipping liberal fucking low life idiot.

And you know why you will stick to insults? BECAUSE THERE IS NONE, NOT A SINGLE IOTA OF EVIDENCE.

You're hyperbolic hysterical assertions, and a opinion of suspects with a BOLD STATEMENT ON THE COVER LETTER THAT THIS REPORT CONTAINS NO CONCLUSIONS is NOT EVIDENCE.

Smiths · Jan 2, 2017

attn ignored jimbo13: It's pretty easy... if you just dismiss me as "whining liberal" you are ignored. You don't know me; you assume I'm a whiny crying liberal because I dare doubt your view. Therefore you are not worth your opinion. Post memes, call names, go ahead.

I said flat out both candidates were awful. I spoke simply about the lack of knowledge of the winner, who publicly calls people who didn't vote for him (which is a greater amount of people than those who did) "Enemies" on December 31. I'm sorry, but calling half of Americans "enemies" is not something I feel anyone should be proud of, but then I see a post like yours which seems to gladly embrace that. Hence why you no longer exist on this forum to me. Thanks.

Xzi · Jan 2, 2017

jimbo13 said:
You keep using that word idiot, because you have No evidence.

You might be an idiot if...you believe a tweet from Donald Trump over the word of 17 intelligence agencies.

After he starts a war I imagine you'll be here telling people, "there's no evidence that he's started a war!"

RevPokemon · Jan 2, 2017

Not going to read through all of this but I have not seen any solid proof that shows this.

stomp_442 · Jan 2, 2017

DeadlyFoez said:
No.

You got me. I thought you were banned.

Them liberals are as corrupt as hell, why does it take russia hacking to make the people understand? Where I live there were numerous polls around the city that pointed to liberal fraud, hopefully those people are found guilty of tampering with the polling machines and do jail time.

jimbo13 · Jan 2, 2017

Xzi said:
You might be an idiot if...you believe a tweet from Donald Trump over the word of 17 intelligence agencies.

After he starts a war I imagine you'll be here telling people, "there's no evidence that he's started a war!"

I believe there word entirely, there word is they suspect Russia and have no evidence or conclusions.

And since they have No evidence, neither do you.

But keep changing the subject with your hyperbolic bullshit to hide the fact you can't/wont cite a single piece of evidence.

Let give you examples of what evidence would like,

Page 3 section 4 of the NICS report cites IP logs coming from Eastern Europe known to be used by Russian intelligence.

You wont cite anything similar, or anything concrete because it doesn't exist.

Xzi · Jan 2, 2017

SickPuppy said:
You got me. I thought you were banned.

Them liberals are as corrupt as hell, why does it take russia hacking to make the people understand? Where I live there were numerous polls around the city that pointed to liberal fraud, hopefully those people are found guilty of tampering with the polling machines and do jail time.

The entire system is clearly very corrupt when the powers that be would rather put an easily-manipulated Donald Trump into office instead of a real change-maker like Bernie Sanders.

jimbo13 said:
I believe there word entirely, there word is they suspect Russia and have no evidence or conclusions.

Obviously I can't get my hands on the code used to trace the hackers, but even if I could and I posted it here, you wouldn't understand it or take it as evidence in the affirmative anyway. In other words, there's no way to satisfy your standard of evidence, and the de facto result is that you are believing a tweet over everything else.

BurningDesire · Jan 2, 2017

Of course not. I'd say more but im never good at expressing my political beliefs without having people hate me.

sarkwalvein · Jan 2, 2017

People, be civilised. Enough with the name calling. We can act like grown ups if we try.

TBH, I don't believe liberals in general are corrupt, but I sure think Hillary Clinton is the worst the Democrats could run for a president candidate. Hell, why her?

Hanafuda · Jan 2, 2017

Ok, I commented already once on pg 7, but one more thing ...

Trump's winning the election seems to have kicked the dollar up a notch against other major world currencies. That's awesome - dollar to yen rate is starting to head back where it was a couple years ago. I am hoping for another big jump once he's inaugurated. Why? XRGB mini Framemeister costs too much.

jimbo13 · Jan 2, 2017

For anyone interested in actual facts and not just parroting bullshit like Xzi, here is the actual report which you can read for yourself.

In that report you will find the facts they did not find it was worth releasing to the public because they have no evidence (and they didn't, it's a second hand leak), they have no conclusions and only suspicions based on previous behavior and not a single tangible fact.

1. There is actually no new information leading the CIA to its conclusion. The New York Times reports: “The C.I.A.’s conclusion does not appear to be the product of specific new intelligence obtained since the election, several American officials, including some who had read the agency’s briefing, said on Sunday. Rather, it was an analysis of what many believe is overwhelming circumstantial evidence — evidence that others feel does not support firm judgments — that the Russians put a thumb on the scale for Mr. Trump, and got their desired outcome.” In other words, someone only decided after Trump won that the accusation was worth making.

2. The “evidence” that the CIA has gathered is inconclusive. The FBI also disagrees with some of the CIA’s conclusions about Russia’s motives. “While lawmakers were seemingly united on the need to present a strong bipartisan response, the FBI and CIA gave lawmakers differing accounts on Russia’s motives, according to The Post,” The Hill reported on Sunday.

3. The CIA is not making public claims that Russia hacked the election. Several CIA veterans, in fact, have urged caution about the leaked reports. As Newsweek reports: “‘I am not saying that I don’t think Russia did this,’ Nada Bakos, a top former CIA counterterrorism officer tells Newsweek, in a typical comment. ‘My main concern is that we will rush to judgment. The analysis needs to be cohesive and done the right way.'” Thus far there is not even a clear idea what the CIA’s conclusions are.

4. Despite left-wing “fake news,” there is no evidence Russian hackers actually distorted the voting process. The most that the CIA is alleging is that the Russians may have helped hack of the Democratic National Committee emails, as well as (possibly) the emails of Hillary Clinton campaign chaiman John Podesta. There is zero evidence Russian hackers messed with voting. Ironically, Green Party candidate Jill Stein’s recount has eliminated any doubt about the integrity of the results.

5. The Obama administration has a history of manipulating intelligence for political gain. The most under-reported scandal of Obama’s presidency was the CENTCOM scandal, in which it emerged that “senior U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM) leaders manipulated intelligence assessments in 2014 and 2015 to make it appear that President Barack Obama is winning the war against the Islamic State (ISIS/ISIL).” There is even more reason to doubt the truth of a selective leak about the election.

6. Julian Assange and Wikileaks have vigorously denied that the Russians were involved in Wikileaks’ disclosures. Of the Democratic National Committee emails, Assange said: “That is the circumstantial evidence that some Russian, or someone who wanted to make them look like a Russian, was involved, with these other media organisations. That is not the case for the material that we released.” Assange made similar denials about the Podesta email leaks later in the election.

7. The fact that the Russians might constantly be trying to hack U.S. systems, and might even specifically have targeted the election, does not prove that they succeeded. Nor does it prove that they tipped the election to Trump even if they had some effect. As pollster Frank Luntz tweeted: “Did Russia also hack Hillary’s campaign calendar and delete all her stops in rural Wisconsin, Penn., and Michigan?” Hillary Clinton lost the election for reasons entirely of her own making.

8. Foreign interference in elections is nothing new — and the Obama administration is a prime culprit. In 2015, the Obama administration made a strenuous and not-terribly-well-hidden effort to swing the Israeli elections toward the opposition and away from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The State Department gave $300,000 to a “pro-peace” Israeli group, which then paid political activists whose goal was to unseat Netanyahu. In 1984, the late Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) actually asked for Soviet help. Russian efforts to intervene would be bad, but not unique, either for Russia or for the U.S.

9. What would the consequences of allowing undue Russian influence in our elections be, exactly? Would we yield primacy in Eastern Europe to Vladimir Putin? Would we give up our plans for missile defense? Would we make deep unilateral cuts in our nuclear arsenal in exchange for flimsy concessions ? Would we tolerate a Russian land invasion of a friendly, pro-Western country? Would we cede the Middle East to Russian hegemony? Because Hillary Clinton and Obama already did that.

10. Occam’s razor: the simplest explanation for the “Russian hacking” story is that it is “fake news” that suits the left-wing media. It is not unknown for Russia to use false propaganda to affect public opinion in foreign countries. Nor is it unknown for the U.S. media to use bias, “fake news,” and outright lies to shift public opinion in this country. The current focus on Russian “hacking,” based on no new evidence and — again — zero evidence of tampering with the voting process.

Grizzly Misstep: Security Experts Call Russia Hacking Report “Poorly Done,” “Fatally Flawed”

Reports: FBI, CIA Not On The Same Page About Russian Hacking (Maybe Because The Evidence About Russia Helping Trump Is Not Substantiated)

Xzi · Jan 2, 2017

So you post the actual report linking Russia to the hacks, then you post a bunch of conjecture and partisan bullshit in the expectation that it somehow disproves that Russia was behind the hacks. Great job, you've provided a lot more evidence to back my side of the argument. Your own...not so much.

jimbo13 · Jan 2, 2017

Xzi said:
So you post the actual report linking Russia to the hacks, then you post a bunch of conjecture and partisan bullshit in the expectation that it somehow disproves that Russia was behind the hacks. Great job, you've provided a lot more evidence to back my side of the argument. Your own...not so much.

How bout you read the report, and cite a page with evidence. You wont because there is none in there which they admit to in that report.

RandomGuest1 · Jan 2, 2017

I say, no , I am sure, don't look at my name.

Xzi · Jan 2, 2017

The irony here being that you're trying to use the FBI to disprove the evidence this document provides, but the FBI was co-author of this document and their contact info is at the bottom of it.

Page one since apparently you can't read: "This determination expands upon the Joint Statement released October 7, 2016." In addition there is still a more detailed investigation in progress and a more detailed report forthcoming before Trump enters office. In other words this isn't just a one document thing, it's been ongoing for a while now with a number of reports piling up. I'm sure those tweets still look far more legit to you than anything else, though.

DeadlyFoez · Jan 2, 2017

SickPuppy said:
You got me. I thought you were banned.

Them liberals are as corrupt as hell, why does it take russia hacking to make the people understand? Where I live there were numerous polls around the city that pointed to liberal fraud, hopefully those people are found guilty of tampering with the polling machines and do jail time.

Yeah. There was a lot around here as well with Democrats doing shady things, some getting caught throwing away mail in ballots, changing or throwing away voter registrations, and even some ballot workers filling in MANY ballots and putting them into the counter machines. If anything, the dems messed with the election. And let us not forget all the undocumented immigrants that voted when they should not have.
I think that if Russia had any hacking going on then it was only to do with the emails and not directly to the election.

What i find hilarious is how so many dems kept saying that the election cant be hacked and trump was "just losing", now so many dems call foul and are claiming that there was hacking involved. Funny how their views of what can and cant be done changes when they lose.

Of course no one believes it enough to put a halt to trumps inauguration.

jimbo13 · Jan 2, 2017

Xzi said:
The irony here being that you're trying to use the FBI to disprove the evidence this document provides, but the FBI was co-author of this document and their contact info is at the bottom of it.

Page one since apparently you can't read: "This determination expands upon the Joint Statement released October 7, 2016." In addition there is still a more detailed investigation in progress and a more detailed report forthcoming before Trump enters office. In other words this isn't just a one document thing, it's been ongoing for a while now with a number of reports piling up.

Unless you are going to quote something for the report that is evidence, I am not reading your continued bullshit assertions.

Because that's all you have is bullshit and assertions.

Bold a page number and a section when you post and I will be happy to read it, but you wont because you don't have anything substantive other than your partisan hyperbolic bullshit assertions.

Xzi · Jan 2, 2017

jimbo13 said:
Unless you are going to quote something for the report that is evidence, I am not reading your continued bullshit assertions.

Good, I have no desire to continue arguing with somebody who has obviously entrenched partisan political views entirely clouding his judgment and common sense.

"Gee, I wonder what Russia has to gain by being the only G20 nation to support a braindead puppet like Donald Trump for president. Probably nothing."

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