Is piracy justifiable?

chalupa · Jun 6, 2007

I feel ok pirating most games but some are too good to pirate.

I feel very guilty pirating ouendan knowing that Inis is having low sales and it truly needs the money. I might import the second one.

stinkingbob · Jun 6, 2007

Is piracy justifiable? In short, yes and no. Instead of pointing fingers at the downloaders or the corporations, the 2 should get together and try to find out why people download instead of pay. Sounds stupid, but bear with me. The frustrations that gamers feel are the limitations that are placed on them by the manufacturer. For software, you cannot return it to the store for a refund.
Some locations will give you a store credit while charging you a restocking fee. The problems is this: what happens if the game is really crappy? The box art looks great, the description looks interesting, but when you load it up, the gameplay just sucks. You basically have no recourse. There is no avenue to try the game out before you buy it. Its akin to playing Russian Roulette.
In addition, many software companies put outcrappy or bugged games on purpose just to meet their deadline, knowing full well that their product is not 100%. SO again, the cosumer is caught between the fryer and the frying pan. Lastly, the cost factor. Games are too damn expensive. WOuld you pay $60 for a PS3 or Wii game which you could beat in a day?? Hell no.
Honestly, I believe that given a choice, most people would rather pay for a game than download it for free. So, here are some suggestions:

1) Allow people to try games before they buy them in the store
2) Have a one day grace period where you could return the game if you didn't like it.
3) Set a uniform price for all games. For example, all NDS games will cost $19.99 and all Wii and PS3 games to cost $29.99
4) Lower console prices to an affordable price. Lets face it, is the PS3 really worth paying $500 for?? (and then you have to buy the game and extra controllers and any necessary add-ons so figure in an extra $100)

I guarantee you that if this were to happen, ther would be less priacy and the companies would make more moneya nd the consumers would buy more games. Hands down.

I know that some people may gripe about the lowered pricing. Look at it like this:
Halo 3 comes out and costs $49.00 Not too many will buy it because of the high cost, company doesnt make much
Halo 3 comes out and costs $29.99 Many people will buy it, thus the company will make more profits

What do you think?

Bob

outphase · Jun 6, 2007

QUOTE(stinkingbob @ Jun 5 2007 said:
I know that some people may gripe about the lowered pricing. Look at it like this:
Halo 3 comes out and costs $49.00 Not too many will buy it because of the high cost, company doesnt make much
Halo 3 comes out and costs $29.99 Many people will buy it, thus the company will make more profits

Among everything, your views are slanted to the "cheap consumer" mentality. Also, to say Halo 3 will not sell at any price point (new 360 games are $60 right?), is just flawed thinking. I am not an xbox fan, but I can safely say Halo 3 will sell. There has yet to be definite marketable proof that lower price sales make up for higher price lack of sales.

bolton2 · Jun 6, 2007

QUOTE([M said:
artin @ Jun 5 2007, 07:48 PM)]People always ask this question and I always respond with:

Are you insane?! THIS SHIT IS FREAKIN' FREE!!!

that is what i call superior words of blatant wisdom

stinkingbob · Jun 6, 2007

Outphase,
I do believe in the cheap consumer reality as you put it. Why? Well, look at how many people are downloading games without paying. If that isn't cheap, then tell me what is. What you fail to look at are the reasons WHY people pirate instead of pay. My belief is that, among other things, pricing is a big deterrent. Now sure, Halo 3,4,5 will sell for big money. The question is, do you sell the product for a really high price knowing that few persons will buy it or do you sell it at a lower price knowing that even more poeple will buy it. I would rather go with the latter only because I want as many people to buy my product and I want my product to have a higher distribution world wide. Remember when the PS3 came out and it cost around $600. Barring the production problems encountered and assuming that stores had ample stock of the console, how many people do oyou thik could afford $600. Not to mention the high proce of the game and add-ons. Not many. Now, imagine the console costing $200. Many many more people would be able to afford the console and buy it. THe company would thus make more money.
But, according to you, there is no tangible proof of this. So what you are basically saying is that people would prefer to buy gas at a station that charges $4.00/gallons rather than a station that charges $3.23/gallon, right?

B.

outphase · Jun 6, 2007

Your PS3 analogy is flawed. One key reason is the PS3 is not 600 at cost according to Sony. Given the ~200 loss per unit, how can selling it at a $600 loss increase profits?

Also, I never said there would be a preference of the higher price. If prices were $10 lower all around, do you think that would increase sales, or would the same people that previously pirated continue to do so? Would that $10 decrease in price cause a shift in the balance that justifies the change in the first place?

Say 100 people are interested in playing game X at $50. Suppose 20 of those people are pirates or do not want to purchase, and all other 80 purchase. 80*50 = 400. Do you think that setting the price at $40 would cause all 20 people to purchase the game and keep the sales numbers the same? ie. 100*40=400. Suppose only 10 are pirates or do not want to purchase, and the other 90 purchase. 90*50 = 450. Lowering the price to $40 will not allow the same 100 people to hit the target $450 in any combination. This was the point I was trying to make.

stinkingbob · Jun 6, 2007

I understand what you are trying to say Outphase. For me I believe that people pirate mainly because of cost and because of bad marketing policy game companies impose (ie: you can't return an opened game). So, the only option people have is to risk buying a game with the hopes that it is worth the money they spent for it. And in most cases, it is not. There may be a few good titles out there deserving a $29.99 price tag but the majority do not.
So now, this frustrates buyers. And what do they do: they pirate.
I believe that most people are willing to buy games and not pirate if the cost of the game is reasonable. Of course there will be die hards that will always pirate no matter what, but these individuals are not so abundant.
Take a look at the music fiasco. People were downloading songs for free. Why? Because they didn't want to pay $15 - $20 for a CD which only had 1 or two songs they liked. So along came Apple and they invented the 99cent single song. Guess what? People started buying songs! THey didn't pirate them. Why? Because the 99cent price tag was affordable enugh that evyone could partake in it. Imagine if Apple charged 2.99 a song. People would be reluctant to pay that and go back to pirating.
So you see, people would really rather pay for something instead of pirating it. Its all up to the manufacturers and companies to actually find out why people pirate instead of trying to sue them.
B.

Veho · Jun 6, 2007

QUOTE(Bowser128 @ Jun 5 2007 said:
QUOTE(Hanafuda @ Jun 5 2007 said:

THE MAN gets all my money. All of it. Whatever I have, I gotten by virtue of the money I have given THE MAN. I have paid for everything I have.

Click to expand...

Who is this MAN and why have you given him all of your money?

He had a knife. He said he was gonna cut me.

Smuff · Jun 6, 2007

OMG not ANOTHER of these threads......

Who cares if it's justifiable or not ? Justifiable to whom exactly ?

Either pirate or don't - if your conscience bothers you, see a priest (or equivalent)

xalphax · Jun 6, 2007

you know...

i got a copy of their game

they can get a copy of my money if they want!

pikachucrackpipe · Jun 6, 2007

abandonware is legal because the company no longer sells the product

rest0re · Jun 6, 2007

one word: no

pikachucrackpipe · Jun 6, 2007

i think it's funny that there are a number of people on a gba/ds rom release website that are against piracy.

outphase · Jun 6, 2007

It's not being against piracy. I am against the misconception of its legality. There really isn't gray area here, it's illegal, but who cares? Some people must have to pussy foot around the topic in order to feel as if they're in the moral right. People just need to accept that it's illegal, unjustifiable, and relatively cheap... that said, I am cheap.

Also, abandonware is not a legal concept. It is not a protection under copyright law. Copyrights do not expire for 70 years beyond the death of the holder (or 95 years after release for companies). The reason they seem more legal than other forms of piracy is that there is no one to enforce the copyright. Look at ScummVM games. LucasArts and others do not actively sell the games, but they still enforce the copyrights.

pikachucrackpipe · Jun 6, 2007

well i agree with you on the top part but as far as abandonware goes, i'm telling you what i've heard from pools of attorneys on the subject.

outphase · Jun 7, 2007

Just because a company no longer markets a product does not mean the copyright is no longer valid. Like I said earlier though, with abandonware, you will probably not be served with copyright infringement as the holding entity will not likely press charges. Abandonware is a computer software concept, not a legal one.

square · Jun 7, 2007

Anyone can use anything to justify anything. So the question is how does one justify it to one's self. Asking if one's justification is justifiable is up to personal interpretation. There is a difference between justifiability and legality. Any lawyer will tell you that.

phoood · Jun 7, 2007

I didn't read the content of this topic, just the title.

Piracy is not justifiable. No, never. It is wrong. We're all going to hell

.

OrR · Jun 7, 2007

QUOTE(pikachucrackpipe @ Jun 6 2007 said:
well i agree with you on the top part but as far as abandonware goes, i'm telling you what i've heard from pools of attorneys on the subject.

It's still wrong.

pikachucrackpipe · Jun 7, 2007

well im not going to lose sleep over downloading lemmings to play at work

Is piracy justifiable?

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