Let's figure out something that only streaming games could do

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Presently we are all watching Stadia, which is the latest attempt at streaming computer games to people and in this case it is Google's turn, be a complete disaster. This is to the surprise of nobody that even vaguely knows how computers and games work, seemingly save perhaps those people that funded the thing. Maybe it is a long play to be the one leading the dance if it all manages to actually kick off but right now... yeah.

However a comment on another thread got me curious
What it needs is a killer app : that one exclusive game that otherwise couldn't be possible. A game that fully tells the world 'screw your scepticism because I Am Here To Stay'.

What might this be? What could be done that would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for conventional game hardware in consumer friendly packages to pull off that gamers either want, or don't necessarily right now realise they want?

The immediate thought for most is they can have the absolute screamingly fastest setup available and push the kind of pixels in real time that consoles and most PCs can only dream of, but make it available for the masses. We have seen stuff like this before, indeed anybody that ever heard the phrase "arcade perfect home port" experienced a version of that -- arcade machines by virtue of their continuous income could push the hardware boat out massively in a way that home consoles (PCs of the time were not quite games machines) could never compete with, or if they could then it was only after a few years and then it starts all over again as the state of the art has moved on further.
However that is boring so I want specifics if we are doing that, limited to what the real world or near future likely provides -- a 8 CPU and thus 64 core and 16 card SLI setup might be possible in theory but it still limits what can be done practically in the modern world.

I saw in another discussion about upcoming flight sims possibly storing terabytes remotely such that full recreations of real world locations to continent level is an option. Doing that locally is tricky for the time being if 90 gigs is pushing the envelope for a single game install... however storage costs are dropping all the time so might that catch up before long?
Similarly would that be all that interesting? As it stands procedural generation can give me an awful lot if I so desire, and do it in an absolutely tiny package (the original Elite from 1984 could give me a massive universe to explore, though they were told to limit it more than they could theoretically have done, and more directed stuff can do better still).
Some devs regard procedural generation, and the AI that follows from it, as a dirty word or a false promise* (I would probably consider them incompetent or uninspired but we can skip that one for now), there are however still practical limitations to the concept and a bit of human touch still appreciated for the time being. I don't know what the level size limit for the human mind actually is (number of friends has things like Dunbar's number, it is also generally assumed most humans don't think much beyond the horizon but we can probably recall more games maps than that, and characters from works too). This also says nothing about what benefits from more complexity there might be; "I don't have to visit it, but the option being there is enough". Similarly we can achieve that on a normal system now without needing some kind of remote processing or storage.

Maybe instead of graphics we could have AI worth noting. I don't have my own supercomputer but I can talk to one to play chess that will beat even the best humans going if I so desired. Chess is not really the end goal but such things could happily be expanded. Related at this point would be discussions of game complexity, recent efforts with machine learning to produce computers that can compete at Go and things like the old XBLA Magic the Gathering AI being reasonable jumping off points.

*Such things will eventually do far more than today. As it stands AI procedurally generated music, voice overs, news stories, behaviours, levels and more are all things doing very well. Now while story scripts still leave something to be desired it is generally a sooner rather than later anticipation here (most news stories being written by AI are usually simple here is a change in the market, here are some other changes, here are some things that happened leading up to this, which is all some news sites really need for a lot of stories) then song lyrics will probably be the first.
Instead of AI maybe we see some human actors be more viable than they are right now? Though again is that not already something of an option? Surely the likes of World of Warcraft or Eve Online could host a human controlled something but have them paid to run a shop or something slightly tedious.

Multiplayer is a thing here. As it stands for games like Civilisation we have seen some fairly creative ways to essentially do a play by email and not allow people the option to cheese the system taking the best turn they can (start of turn, send scout in every direction loading each time, pick best course of action as a result of info gleaned and send that save back to the server). Being remote then you could consider it essentially immune to this outside of someone hacking in which already is a rare problem, not to mention limiting options for sniffing data they are theoretically not supposed to have.
Somewhat amusingly then for lag (more on that later) if everybody is effectively in the same bit of system memory then it somewhat turns the ping negation and other aspects of "the internet sucks" on their head, obviously still got some problems with lag to work around (maybe some kind of AI takeover if ping drops too much) but it is a different take on the matter and solves several problems all at once. Might it be how we reasonably get 1000 vs 1000 player servers? One idea that has consistently floated around is the option for 1000 people to all join at a given time and recreate a large battle, even if one player ends up being little more than a gunner responsible for a small section of a ship in that particular instance.
It might also allow for some measure of control enough that gambling and other real money going in and out to users becomes a proper option. People have been saying if people can earn a living from games then that will change everything for many years now (far from the first but a good source might be those things for 2012's Diablo 3 with its "real money auction house") but it still remains true that if many people can then that will change things.

We have seen data from fighting game tournaments be fed back into games to improve AI there. Mega CPU plus it all being local to it could make for some serious tweaks here, and possibly some kind of push back/balancing/openings for an interesting story twist if it thinks things are going wrong (we already see stuff like the left4dead director). Theoretically such things could already be done (input + time of input is not lots of data) but I am sure the folks that spend time contemplating metrics are giddy with anticipation of what such services could allow them to do. If nothing else stats + human "invisible" moderation + instantaneous patching means exploits might not propagate far; if player times/damage/funds have achieved these results outside of expected variables then oh no look your glitch gun broke.

Combining with the memory above then maybe we see some more persistent world stuff rather than endless replayed instances. Though frankly that could be done now in some ways (see minecraft)... that said combined with the large level stuff from earlier then maybe not. I would not mind seeing a true survival game like this, especially if pinging out saw my character go AI and attempt to return home/finish the task within my capabilities as it were.

So starting with the assumption that streaming allows those doing streaming games a complete control of essentially a supercomputer, one somewhat immune to hackers, one with only the lag to remote players (which could be made low if certain expensive things are done) being the main issue then what could be achieved that presently is difficult, if not impossible, that would make for a far more compelling experience?
As part of this theorising I can allow some kind of lag negation; if they did it local to the town/city, or even better, then it would be more than acceptable, but that is actual investment and seemingly more than they care to do right here. We can also skip the "I don't own my games", "muh bandwidth caps" and "I want mods" type discussions as they are issues for some but not so very great when all is said and done (people already give their money to Steam for scarcely any better, such caps are a non issue in a lot of the world and *points at consoles*).
 

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Even that is impossible.
Consider that this is unfeasible for a single player using cutting edge PCs. We would need many clusters for 1 player to get there.
Imagine doing the same for many players, each with their own camera view, implying in calculations for each player.

I'm just repeating what could be possible with streaming and AI from the people responsible for creating the streaming and AI. I've got no reason to doubt them.
 

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Kinda an offshoot here but if Stadia can actually nail down its horrendous input lag issues and be an actual gaming service, something I think it super cool is that it negates the need for expensive gaming hardware. I could theoretically be playing Destiny with my friend from behind a Chromebook screen.

So that's one think, kinda. Eliminating the need for expensive pc setups.
 

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Kinda an offshoot here but if Stadia can actually nail down its horrendous input lag issues and be an actual gaming service, something I think it super cool is that it negates the need for expensive gaming hardware. I could theoretically be playing Destiny with my friend from behind a Chromebook screen.

So that's one think, kinda. Eliminating the need for expensive pc setups.

Playing any game on its highest settings, under the maximum resolution at the highest FPS your display device supports without the need for a $6,000 computer is a major selling point. 4k? 120fps? Ultra Settings? No problem and no computer required! Maybe in the future when we all have low latency 1Gbit connections something like this could actually work out.
 
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FAST6191

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Kinda an offshoot here but if Stadia can actually nail down its horrendous input lag issues and be an actual gaming service, something I think it super cool is that it negates the need for expensive gaming hardware. I could theoretically be playing Destiny with my friend from behind a Chromebook screen.

So that's one think, kinda. Eliminating the need for expensive pc setups.
Nailing down lag issues though is not a trivial task, or a least not a cheap one. Between light actually taking time to get places and the infrastructure of the internet meaning dropped packets, switches and such will always be in the middle of it that pretty much leaves them with putting a nice server in your city (or better), which some services already do for bandwidth (netflix, hulu and such quite famously did this in the run up to the net neutrality spat) and ping issues (game servers being a prime example), just probably not with the computing potency required here and also troubling the "anybody, anywhere" selling point (think mobile phones selling their coverage area when that was still a thing, and make it a harder engineering challenge still).
A favourite video for these scenarios


Or if you prefer were you around to see the people selling notions of fast play at the tail end of the dial up era, where they thought rather than TCP connections that say they got things back and set rates accordingly they would use UDP which just fired it into the void (possibly with a large suitably sized frame if they had read page 2 of network layers and you) and not worrying... same deal really.

The whole "data mining" thing only came to prominence recently and it's in large part a matter of marketing - I'm 100% convinced that games like Apex, Fortnite or Overwatch purposefully include snippets of data that aren't visible in-game fully knowing that dedicated fans will "data mine" and build hype for new heroes or weapons. In the past data mining was a noble pursuit, a search for content cut from retail releases, nowadays it feels somewhat jaded and calculated. Perhaps it's just me, but when I see a series of "coincidences" that reveal future DLC I can't help but wonder why those files are even there in the first place. It can't possibly be that hard to push patches that are specifically dedicated for test servers.

Does that mean my dreams of hacking a game and getting into a super secret government program or something were in fact all lies and instead I just end up doing someone's marketing for them?
 

FAST6191

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Streaming games do something unique and thats you end up owning nothing.
Prior to recent rulings slowly making it so you can "used" trade games with friends was it really that different with the likes of Steam? Moreover how many people kept games or play their older games barring a select handful?
 

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Prior to recent rulings slowly making it so you can "used" trade games with friends was it really that different with the likes of Steam? Moreover how many people kept games or play their older games barring a select handful?
They still had the freedom to decide to keep it or sell it. something that streaming will never give you. Also the provider controls how long you can use it. I'm not paying for that. Imagine you buy a 4k tv and the manufacture then decides that tv will no longer function in 2 years, would you buy it?

The only has the control the user has is to not use the service. Most are to weak minded and give in. I have never purchased/used another streaming service and i have never used steam. I guess I'm to strong minded. None of the services offer something better then pirating it: the freedom to use it my way, as in play it on other devices store it offline, DRM free. No streaming service is better the pirated.
 
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FAST6191

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They still had the freedom to decide to keep it or sell it. something that streaming will never give you. Also the provider controls how long you can use it. I'm not paying for that. Imagine you buy a 4k tv and the manufacture then decides that tv will no longer function in 2 years, would you buy it?

The only has the control the user has is to not use the service. Most are to weak minded and give in. I have never purchased/used another streaming service and i have never used steam. I guess I'm to strong minded. None of the services offer something better then pirating it: the freedom to use it my way, as in play it on other devices store it offline, DRM free. No streaming service is better the pirated.
Me? No as I dare say we are similar in approach and fondness for older things being able to be used. Have you seen how many people buy "smart" TVs though? 2 years is a long time for some of those to start losing functionality. Or if we are doing entertainments how many people more classically have gone to plays, concerts, performances and the cinema? While I like entertainment my way there are perks to the disposable aspect for many.

As for "No streaming service is better the pirated.". So there are no benefits from extra processing power/graphics pushing, potential AI improvements, lack of inter process lag, or any of the other things, or any of those potential perks are so radically offset by the downsides as you deem them that it is still not better?
 

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With pirated content i was referring to streaming tv shows mostly. If the streaming services let me download a drm free copy then id gladly pay for them. I know you can capture netflix with a hd capture card, i tried it with my friends gaming capture card. it worked well. Most people dont want to keep anything. Streaming is for them. the ones i know that think streaming media abd games is a god-sent seem to get mad that i pirate it lol. not sure why. i guess its like telling apple sheep that the mac book is actually just a pc lol. Its fun to troll them noobs.

All in all streaming is here to stay.It will overtake any physical media. that much is certain. At-least we are not forced to buy it. we can still torrent for now...
 

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In my post I originally wanted to say something like 'how about playing on multiple devices at once?'. I didn't because the WiiU wasn't exactly successful, but there is some merit to the idea. Like... Say minecraft or factorio like games. They could have a full stadia experience in which you game, and a minimal interface on your phone where you could check on your stuff and perform some minimal tasks.
Reminds me of attempts at some kind of "unified experience" where you can play games on your PC or console and pick up where you left off on your phone or something. I think a few companies were trying that a few years ago, though I suppose they didn't have the hardware to realize that goal. I suppose that's one thing they could try with Stadia...?

Frankly, I don't remember what they were calling it, but I'm sure I heard some buzz about it. Might have ended up devolving into Windows Mobile or something, I dunno.
 

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In my post I originally wanted to say something like 'how about playing on multiple devices at once?'. I didn't because the WiiU wasn't exactly successful, but there is some merit to the idea. Like... Say minecraft or factorio like games. They could have a full stadia experience in which you game, and a minimal interface on your phone where you could check on your stuff and perform some minimal tasks.

I think there was a suggestion of using a vita as a rear view mirror in gran turismo, but that was when sony were talking crap
 

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Idea:
BeamNG multiplayer.

There's no freaking way you could do normal online multiplayer for BeamNG; even if every PC involved was powerful enough, I imagine you'd have a lot of trouble with physics synchronization across clients. Each client-side PC would need to be pretty up to spec, and you'd probably need a connection good enough for cloud gaming, anyway.

But a single server running one instance for multiple people? You might be able to pull it off.
 

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