Donald Trump impeachment investigation over Ukranian phone call...

[Foxi4]

So I looked into a lawyer break down all the events that happened.

This whole thing started because Trump wanted Ukraine to find information about what kick started Russia Gate,
Because of a conspiracy theory Trump believed that Ukraine was conspiring with Democrats to remove him from office. Ha Ha Ha Ha

Hi, I'm President Trump and I got impeached and removed from office because of a conspiracy theory I was obsessed with. lol

This is correct, one of the major things Trump inquired about was CrowdStrike. Silly, for sure.

 

[SG854]

This is correct, one of the major things Trump inquired about was CrowdStrike. Silly, for sure.

This whole Russia Gate went into his head. Democrats unintentionally were able to find of way to get him to do something stupid to impeach him. They've been wanting to remove him even before he stepped into office. And Trump is not all that there either on what's legal and illegal activity he can do. That was the whole Russia Gate controversy whether Trump did things knowing they were illegal and his ignorance saved him.


This is where the conservative conspiracy theory backfired on Trump. Now they got Trump obsessed with it.
All that Fake News talk went to his head.

 

[Foxi4]

This whole Russia Gate went into his head. Democrats unintentionally were able to find of way to get him to do something stupid to impeach him. They've been wanting to remove him even before he stepped into office. And Trump is not all that there either on what's legal and illegal activity he can do. That was the whole Russia Gate controversy whether Trump did things knowing they were illegal and his ignorance saved him.


This is where the conservative conspiracy theory backfired on Trump. Now they got Trump obsessed with it.
All that Fake News talk went to his head.

It's debatable whether this is impeachable or not. I don't understand why the White House is pushing a narrative of no Quid Pro Quo, there was obviously a request made, it just wasn't one that's unusual or beyond the pale, at least in my estimation. As for Trump's embrace of conspiracy theories, it's not the first time - let's not forget all the Birther nonsense. It would do him a world of good to just fire Giuliani - he's giving him terrible advice. Whenever Trump does something silly, Rudy is not far behind. Trump should distance himself from that idiot, for his own sake, and stop relying on his private attorney in matters concerning the state. The problem is that Trump, rightfully, doesn't exactly trust the state, in spite of being the head of it, which is quite peculiar.

 

[Deleted User]

It's debatable whether this is impeachable or not. I don't understand why the White House is pushing a narrative of no Quid Pro Quo, there was obviously a request made, it just wasn't one that's unusual or beyond the pale, at least in my estimation. As for Trump's embrace of conspiracy theories, it's not the first time - let's not forget all the Birther nonsense. It would do him a world of good to just fire Giuliani - he's giving him terrible advice. Whenever Trump does something silly, Rudy is not far behind. Trump should distance himself from that idiot, for his own sake, and stop relying on his private attorney in matters concerning the state. The problem is that Trump, rightfully, doesn't exactly trust the state, in spite of being the head of it, which is quite peculiar.

It's impeachable. Impeachement is to prevent power from being abused. And in this case it is. Trump is using a quid pro quo for his own personal interest. Not the Unitied States interest. That's my aruguement.

 

[SG854]

It's debatable whether this is impeachable or not. I don't understand why the White House is pushing a narrative of no Quid Pro Quo, there was obviously a request made, it just wasn't one that's unusual or beyond the pale, at least in my estimation. As for Trump's embrace of conspiracy theories, it's not the first time - let's not forget all the Birther nonsense. It would do him a world of good to just fire Giuliani - he's giving him terrible advice. Whenever Trump does something silly, Rudy is not far behind. Trump should distance himself from that idiot, for his own sake, and stop relying on his private attorney in matters concerning the state. The problem is that Trump, rightfully, doesn't exactly trust the state, in spite of being the head of it, which is quite peculiar.

If they get him on this he would be considered the dumbest President ever.

The state rightfully shouldn't be trusted, but the birther nonsense, that should be telling how ridiculous Trump is and that ridiculousness is going to cost him.

 

[Foxi4]

It's impeachable. Impeachement is to prevent power from being abused. And in this case it is. Trump is using a quid pro quo for his own personal interest. Not the Unitied States interest.

You would have to prove that. Going forward with the 2016 election hacking investigation, which is still on-going, and eliciting help from the Ukrainian government in said investigation, which was the subject of the phone call, is well-within the category of national security and not Trump's personal interest. In fact, the same was done before by Senate Democrats in regards to Mueller's investigation - they too threatened the Ukrainian government with sanctions if they failed to cooperate with the probe. Things are not as black and white as you paint them to be - one of two theories is correct, either Trump was soliciting help in the on-going investigation in the interest of national security *or* he was soliciting help in the upcoming election. To me it is clear he was doing the former, to you the latter. One of those is impeachable, the other one is not.

 

[SG854]

You would have to prove that. Going forward with the 2016 election hacking investigation, which is still on-going, and eliciting help from the Ukrainian government in said investigation, which was the subject of the phone call, is well-within the category of national security and not Trump's personal interest. In fact, the same was done before by Senate Democrats in regards to Mueller's investigation - they too threatened the Ukrainian government with sanctions if they failed to cooperate with the probe. Things are not as black and white as you paint them to be - one of two theories is correct, either Trump was soliciting help in the on-going investigation in the interest of national security *or* he was soliciting help in the upcoming election. To me it is clear he was doing the former, to you the latter. One of those is impeachable, the other one is not.

Thinking about this, all this wouldn't have happened if Democrats didn't kick start that retarded Russia Gate conspiracy theory. If they just accepted their defeat then none of this wouldn't have happened.

I would say punish the Democrats also if they are going to get Trump. Its only fair right. They are just a bunch of hypocrites going after Trump for this.

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Now that I think about it, both political parties are retarded conspiracy theorists. This is our country guys. Nothing but conspiracy theorist politicians, and conspiracy theorist people that vote. Were all conspiracy theorists, hey now.

 

[Foxi4]

Thinking about this, all this wouldn't have happened if Democrats didn't kick start that retarded Russia Gate conspiracy theory. If they just accepted their defeat then none of this wouldn't have happened.

I would say punish the Democrats also if they are going to get Trump. Its only fair right. They are just a bunch of hypocrites going after Trump for this.

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Now that I think about it, both political parties are retarded conspiracy theorists. This is our country guys. Nothing but conspiracy theorist politicians.

Both Republicans and Democrats have been pretty disappointing as far as policy and conduct are concerned, which is why I don't personally align with either - I'm libertarian. Sadly, the Libertarian party is full of clowns who are more concerned about arguing over whether it is legally justifiable to sell meth to kids if the invisible hand of the free market ordains there's a demand for it instead of being serious for five seconds and tackling realistic issues. As such, I represent no one and I'm represented by no one.

 

[D34DL1N3R]

What do the Trump supporters think would happen if Trump himself were to testify and take all questions asked, like that smart mouthed Doug Collins challenged Schiff to do? Get them BOTH up there and see what happens.

 

[Xzi]

Thinking about this, all this wouldn't have happened if Democrats didn't kick start that retarded Russia Gate conspiracy theory.

Republicans created the conspiracy theories because they didn't like the conclusions drawn by the Mueller report, or that people in connection with the Trump campaign were jailed over it. You can't blame Democrats for the fact that Trump believes every conspiracy theory from 4chan is legit. If anything, that's just more evidence of gross incompetence (and tech illiteracy) on his part.

 

[Foxi4]

What do the Trump supporters think would happen if Trump himself were to testify and take all questions asked, like that smart mouthed Doug Collins challenged Schiff to do? Get them BOTH up there and see what happens.

If Trump testifies he will be impeached, 100%. Those hearings are perjury traps by design, we've seen it in the past, this would be no different. He should not testify under any circumstances, and if he is forced to testify, he should play the Clinton routine of "I don't recall" throughout the process, or plead the fifth so as to not implicate himself, but I don't know if the man is physically capable of just not saying anything for more than 5 minutes. It would be damaging to his image either way, so ideally he should distance himself as much as possible if he intends to keep his office. It's not even a matter of being guilty or not guilty - as Admiral Akhbar says, it's a trap.

 

[SG854]

Republicans created the conspiracy theories because they didn't like the conclusions drawn by the Mueller report, or that people in connection with the Trump campaign were jailed over it. You can't blame Democrats for the fact that Trump believes every conspiracy theory from 4chan is legit. If anything, that's just more evidence of gross incompetence (and tech illiteracy) on his part.

uh huh, ok

 

[Xzi]

If Trump testifies he will be impeached, 100%. Those hearings are perjury traps by design

You can't perjure yourself if you don't lie. We're obviously in agreement that Trump can't speak on any topic for more than ten seconds without lying, however. Which is why his lawyers would never let him testify in person.

 

[D34DL1N3R]

If Trump testifies he will be impeached, 100%. Those hearings are perjury traps by design, we've seen it in the past, this would be no different. He should not testify under any circumstances, and if he is forced to testify, he should play the Clinton routine of "I don't recall" throughout the process, or plead the fifth, so as to not implicate himself. It would be damaging to his image either way, so ideally he should distance himself as much as possible if he intends to keep his office. It's not even a matter of being guilty or not guilty - as Admiral Akhbar says, it's a trap.

100% spot on he'd be nailed to the cross. Although if you don't lie, you don't have to worry about yourself and your entire administration keeping their stories straight, and thus no need to worry about perjury. Get him up there. He's the one facing possible (but unlikely) perjury. Should he not be the one testifying? And for anyone else caught in perjury, including any Democrat, then they should face the consequences as well. But saying Trump would be found guilty of perjury, means he lied about things to begin with.

 

[Foxi4]

You can't perjure yourself if you don't lie. We're obviously in agreement that Trump can't speak on any topic for more than ten seconds without lying, however. Which is why his lawyers would never let him testify in person.

That's not necessarily true, but whatever you say. This thread has already visited the blowjob territory, it was discussed ad nauseaum, so we won't go there. If you're not familiar with the term "loaded question", you should familiarise yourself. There are questions you can ask that are damaging regardless of what answer you're going to give, a truthful one or a lie.

100% spot on he'd be nailed to the cross. Although if you don't lie, you don't have to worry about yourself and your entire administration keeping their stories straight, and thus no need to worry about perjury. Get him up there. He's the one facing possible (but unlikely) perjury. Should he not be the one testifying? And for anyone else caught in perjury, including any Democrat, then they should face the consequences as well. But saying Trump would be found guilty of perjury, means he lied about things to begin with.

The reason why the fifth exists is specifically to curb this kind of mentality - "if you don't do anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about" is what tyrants say when they want to justify blatantly evil acts. In a free country you have a right to speak and an equally important right to stay silent.

 

[morvoran]

Of course they do, that was always going to be the next step.

Uh, no, it wasn't. Not sure where you get your news from.... oh, wait, yes i do. From MSDNC and CNN.

The DOJ had the opportunity to conduct the initial investigation in the same manner, and they declined.

The DOJ will hold hearings in public once the FISA abuse report is finalized and released. We'll see who colluded with foreign countries then (hint: it was the democrats)

The transcript was sufficiently damning by itself, but we're way past that.

Wrong! The transcript proved there was no quid pro quo or any impeachable offenses. Rachel Maddow is a crazy lady.

Apparently you've chosen not to read the opening statements from any of the witnesses who have given their testimony to Congress.

Uh, yes, I have and even posted one from a top official that you must have conveniently skipped over. Here it is again: "I want to be clear, I was not concerned that anything illegal was discussed," Morrison said, according to his opening statement. He also said he was not aware of any meaningful material being left out of the White House’s memo on the call.

Republicans created the conspiracy theories because they didn't like the conclusions drawn by the Mueller report, or that people in connection with the Trump campaign were jailed over it. You can't blame Democrats for the fact that Trump believes every conspiracy theory from 4chan is legit. If anything, that's just more evidence of gross incompetence on his part.

Wow, I would hate to see this alternative dimension you come from. Everybody must be poor and starving in the Socialist States of Sanders where you come from. No wonder why you're always here.
You need to step away from the Young Turks and Voxnews and pay attention to reality for a change. The demonrats had the "insurance policy" in case Killary Clinton lost. They came up with the whole Russian hoax that Shifty Schiff had concrete evidence of Trumps collusion (what ever happened with that?) They misinterpreted the phone call due to some 6nd hand whistleblower's account of what their father's mother's sister's cousin's next door neighbor's dog heard on that phone call.
Plus, one of those people arrested, Flynn, will soon be released as evidence has surfaced proving the FBI entrapped him into committing perjury with those involved on the left being the ones convicted.

Nice try (not), but you can't fool me as I actually pay attention to what's been going on.

 

[IncredulousP]

The reason why the fifth exists is specifically to prevent this kind of mentality

 

[Xzi]

If you're not familiar with the term "loaded question", you should familiarise yourself. There are questions you can ask that are damaging regardless of what answer you're going to give, a truthful one or a lie.

The reason why the fifth exists is specifically to curb this kind of mentality

For every problem a solution, eh? The bottom line is that Trump simply isn't intelligent enough to understand basic legal concepts or think through questions before responding to them. His mouth and his ego do the leading, which is precisely how he ended up breaking federal election laws in the first place.

 

[Foxi4]

Putting someone on the stand is perpetuity until they finally say something that implicates them in some way so that you can burn them at the stake is the definition of a witch trial. That's not justice, that's a circus. When in doubt, plead the fifth. Also, love Chappelle, good taste in comedy there.

 

[SG854]

For every problem a solution, eh? The bottom line is that Trump simply isn't intelligent enough to understand basic legal concepts or think through questions before responding to them. His mouth and his ego do the leading, which is precisely how he ended up breaking federal election laws in the first place.

That is the most correct thing you said so far. Trump is a dumb dumb. His ignorance and ego is going to cost him. Its what got him elected in the first place because he said things without filters and people loved it, ones that were tired of political talk and double speak, but its a double edged sword and its gunna cost him.