School shooting in Colorado

[WD_GASTER2]

nothing changes. nothing will change. another day another bunch of thoughts and prayers.
another day a bunch of people will argue is that the solution is more guns.

 

[Paulsar99]

Rip to that brave student. Also since its a trans woman did the crime I'm expecting media silence in this one.

Shit I wish. Right now it's like every one to two days. And as long as Trump is in office, it'll be nothing but more "thoughts and prayers." America's complacency really sucks, at times like these most of all.

Because there never was any school shootings during obama right?

 

[gizmomelb]

Err, first-world countries other than the US. Didn't think that was unclear.

She was implying ''other'' countries have 0 school shootings per year and USA is uncivilised. Whoosh!

 

[Captain_N]

Shit I wish. Right now it's like every one to two days. And as long as Trump is in office, it'll be nothing but more "thoughts and prayers." America's complacency really sucks, at times like these most of all.

If dems are in office its lets take away guns.... So whats the point of bringing up politics? we all know you hate trump it solves nothing. What is trump supposed to do, time travel and prevent it from happening?

 

[Xzi]

Because there never was any school shootings during obama right?

There was a willingness to do something about it. Which is something we know better than to expect under a Republican president.

She was implying ''other'' countries have 0 school shootings per year and USA is uncivilised. Whoosh!

So she was basically just reiterating my point? I said two school shootings at max per year for other first-world countries. On average it's definitely zero.

 

[Pipistrele]

As of 2016 there were a little over 34 thousand high schools in the USA. That's not including elementary and middle schools nor colleges.

Oops my bad. It was actually over 92 thousand. The 34 thousand was private schools.

Considering 1/20 or 5% of the world's population lives in the USA - quite a few schools

It'll take some calculation, but I still think if we add up all the schools from different European countries, they won't get nearly as many school shootings that US had - I mean, in many places it's still a massive national tragedy when something like that happens.

Not a huge fan of participating in political debates, so I'll avoid the whole "pro-gun/anti-gun" discussion, but I do think we shouldn't dance around two rather clear facts: 1) US has an epidemic problem with mass shootings, and 2) it has at least some correlation with US having some of the more easily available guns.

 

[Hanafuda]

nothing changes. nothing will change. another day another bunch of thoughts and prayers.
another day a bunch of people will argue is that the solution is more guns.

Well, what gun control law would have prevented this shooting? The shooters used handguns, but the oldest of the two involved is 18. Handguns aren't legal for under 21. So that law did nothing to prevent this. And taking a gun into a school isn't legal either, but that law also did nothing. Simply put, you can pass laws, but getting people who want to commit crimes to follow those laws is another matter.

It'll take some calculation, but I still think if we add up all the schools from different European countries, they won't get nearly as many school shootings that US had - I mean, in many places it's still a massive national tragedy when something like that happens.

Comparing European vs. American statistics on this issue is meaningless. Obviously some want to simply blame "guns" but we've always had civilian ownership of firearms. And there were far fewer legal restrictions re: guns in the past here. But school shootings are a phenomenon that has developed over the last couple decades. When I was in high school (early 80's), it was common for guys to go hunting in the morning before school and then come to school with their rifle hanging in the back window of their truck. No biggie then. Nobody shot the place up, nobody was worried that someone was going to shoot the place up. So what changed? Every time there's been a school shooting, it's accompanied by hysteria and hand-wringing and glamorization via media coverage. Most schools in the US now hold emergency drills on what to do if there's a school shooting. The idea that this is something that can happen (and for those evil enough, that they can do) is forcibly planted.

It reminds me of a scene in the movie "Heathers" where after a student is believed to have committed suicide, the guidance counselor organizes a "Teen Suicide: Don't Do It!" week. She gives a speech to the students where she says, "Whether or not to kill yourself is one of the most important decisions a teenager has to make."

 

[WD_GASTER2]

what exactly are you trying to prove? did i just advocate for gun laws? I just said nothing will change. I dont see your arguing proving otherwise.
just thoughts and prayers because that is all that can be done right?
I did say another day where people where will advocate for more guns as a solution I dont think i am incorrect in saying that either.

 

[Pipistrele]

Well, what gun control law would have prevented this shooting? The shooters used handguns, but the oldest of the two involved is 18. Handguns aren't legal for under 21. So that law did nothing to prevent this. And taking a gun into a school isn't legal either, but that law also did nothing. Simply put, you can pass laws, but getting people who want to commit crimes to follow those laws is another matter.

I constantly hear this argument when it comes to mass shootings, and it never made sense to me honestly. Saying "We don't need gun control because criminals will obtain guns if they want to" is kinda like saying "We don't need locks because burglars will find their way in anyway".

 

[Xzi]

If dems are in office its lets take away guns...

Every time anyone posts this, I'll have to remind them that only one president in the history of the US has ever seriously suggested "taking away guns" without due process.


(Quote at 41 seconds)

 

[wurstpistole]

As a European, I fail to understand why weapons are still sold freely there.
In my opinion it is of course the #1 reason for school shootings - without easy access to guns, no shootings, simple as that.
Fuck your second amendment. That needs to be revoked.

But then there's guys like this:

Let's see how many of you blame the gun.... instead of the real issue.

Well I am pretty sure there's mental issues in Europe as well, that is not exclusive to America.

 

[WD_GASTER2]

ooh xzi but didnt ya know that was before he was told that was a naughty thing to say.

 

[Xzi]

ooh xzi but didnt ya know that was before he was told that was a naughty thing to say.

But well after Trump had declared himself a "big second amendment guy." So I guess that verifies he had never actually read the second amendment.

 

[WD_GASTER2]

he holds the best beliefs. He knows only the best amendments. believe me.
On the topic at hand though the number of these incidents has TRAGICALLY RAMPED UP. I dont know what can be said that has not been said on this issue.

 

[Hanafuda]

But well after Trump had declared himself a "big second amendment guy." So I guess that verifies he had never actually read the second amendment.

Or the due process clause.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I constantly hear this argument when it comes to mass shootings, and it never made sense to me honestly. Saying "We don't need gun control because criminals will obtain guns if they want to" is kinda like saying "We don't need locks because burglars will find their way in anyway".

You're talking about a country where a Prohibition on liquor caused the genesis of organized crime and a major violent crime wave that lasted a decade before the gave up and made liquor legal again. The prohibition on 'drugs' has created a gang violence and drug cartel crisis that results in thousands of murders a year both in the US and in the supplier countries. I think it's reasonable to expect that a prohibition on firearms would follow this trend.

Ending/reforming the federal prohibition on recreational drug use and the black market industry it creates would be the best way to cut gun crime in the US. I doubt it would do much for the 'mass shooting' incidents, but statistically they're not significant.

 

[WD_GASTER2]

In other words it sounds like we are stuck with the status quo.

 

[Hanafuda]

In other words it sounds like we are stuck with the status quo.

I added an edit just above your post and suggested what I think is the main problem causing gun crime in the US. It would definitely change the status quo. Recreational drug use is a personal issue. Drug abuse is a healthcare issue. Treating either as criminal just makes for a business opportunity for people not concerned with laws. And people not concerned with laws are willing to defend their crimes with violence.

 

[WD_GASTER2]

If you think that de-criminalization is going to happen anytime soon...I think you may end up waiting a very long time.
Ultimately that is my point. Nobody wants to try ANYTHING. Just rabble rousing and people going into immediate defensive postures when these tragedies happen.

I dont mean to be flippant but people saying thoughts and prayers every time a tragedy happens is just as flippant if you were to ask me.

 

[supersonicwaffle]

As a European, I fail to understand why weapons are still sold freely there.
In my opinion it is of course the #1 reason for school shootings - without easy access to guns, no shootings, simple as that.
Fuck your second amendment. That needs to be revoked.

But then there's guys like this:

Well I am pretty sure there's mental issues in Europe as well, that is not exclusive to America.

I will assume you're German because of your username. I used to feel the same way but these days I feel the conflict is much more complex and as Germans we don't really have a good grasp on it.
For example hunting seems to be much more ingrained in American culture. Population density is also an eighth of what it's here in Germany and we're often not considering how firearms are a necessity in really remote areas because we virtually have none.
You making an argument as a European is also quite misleading as countries like Finland are opposed to stricter EU wide gun regulation in a similar way, there's also division on the issue here much like rural vs urban areas in the US.

That the sheer amount and availability of firearms in civilian possession up until now would fuel the black market for decades is also a very real concern, which leads me to believe that any type of regulation would probably have to be objectively evaluated over multiple decades.
I don't want to argue for or against it as I'm well aware that I don't know enough about the issue. It's a messy situation.

 

[JoeBloggs777]

Don't Schools in the USA have a zero tolerance policy to bullying at school ?. many schools claim to have in the UK but still kids are bullied ending with some taking their own life.