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[POLL] U.S. Presidential Election 2016

Whom will/would you vote for?

  • Laurence Kotlikoff (Independent)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Tom Hoefling (America's Party)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mike Maturen (American Solidarity Party)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    659
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vayanui8

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Donald Trump has the habit of saying he supports things when he backs policy to the contrary. For example, Trump says in one speech that he supports higher taxes on higher earners, but his tax policy drastically cuts taxes for higher earners. Specific to your point, Trump does not support policies such as universal healthcare. He wants to repeal everything about the Affordable Care Act but offers nothing to replace it with other than ancient rehashed garbage about allowing the sale of health insurance accross state lines, as if it will solve all of our problems when it will likely do nothing. He also uses his health care "policy" to somehow demonize immigrants for much the problem with health care.
Sometimes all it takes is saying you agree with something to get people's votes. Many people don't look at a practical means of achieving a goal, but rather the intentions. Donald Trump may not actually back up what he said, but because he said it people believe that he will somehow do it.
 

Lacius

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Sometimes all it takes is saying you agree with something to get people's votes. Many people don't look at a practical means of achieving a goal, but rather the intentions. Donald Trump may not actually back up what he said, but because he said it people believe that he will somehow do it.
I believe Donald Trump's willingness to say whatever will get him elected, as well as his demagoguery, are nearly his entire appeal.
 
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Foxi4

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@Lacius That's fair. I don't like the fact that you divide society into "classes" and choose which are worthy of additional protections and which are not, all based exclusively on your own perception of right and wrong, but that's your prerogative. It seems counter-productive and counter-intuitive in a struggle for equality from where I'm sitting. All your previous examples, like black slavery for instance, were predicated on one group of people having more/different rights than the other. Slaves were treated as sub-humans, thus it was "okay" to "own them". To me, everyone regardless of race or creed should be treated equally by the law, and this includes both in priviledges and in duties. The "freedom" I stand behind is not the "freedom to own slaves", it's the freedom to be at the helm of your own life. Not all regulation is bad - some laws need to be enacted in order to protect said freedom from those who may want to encroach on it. The whole point of creating laws is to make sure that the freedom of the citizens is not violated, the problem here is that we have mechanisms to protect citizens from other citizens, but no mechanisms to protect them from potentially oppressive legislature. The difference between just law and unjust law is in its intrusiveness in the lives of the citizens. Intrusive law will always be met with opposition, that's just how humans operate - they like to be in control of their lives. Take prohibition for example - it was an intrusive ban enacted under false moral pretenses that spawned nothing but underground cartels led by mobsters. That's why I have a problem with affirmative action - it divides societies into "them" and "us", it creates boundries and makes some people "equaller" than others - that's not progressive, that's regressive. I think that your proposition is unjust for the same reasons - at no point is the shopkeep's opinion acknowledged, you're just forcing him to do what you think is right. Even if your proposition had the expected effect, it would not make it just - the effects of an action do not make it justifiable. It's just an overall authoritarian approach to the issue and that's what I have a problem with. You may very well have noble intentions, but I don't agree with your methods. I see your position as trying to manufacture a society, meanwhile I believe that society naturally tends to reach equilibrium over time and the less you screw with it the better.
 

XDel

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Oh God, it's like kryptonite to my libertarian sensibilities! I'm getting intellectual blue balls just thinking about this, should I press the Play button? M-marxism? H-hippies? I can already feel my d*ck shrivel, can someone please break my back so that I could chew my balls off? Or just shoot me while guns are still legal, I beg for the sweet release of death. .

Sorry, didn't mean to trigger you into pulling out your effigy and stabbing it with needles. That's the problem today with American discourse or lack there of, is you bring up certain words or symbols and people will default to certain clichés and stereotypes and never hear the other person out. Sports statistics, recipes, video games, and other forms of meaningless trivia are fare game to discuss at no end, but as soon as someone proposes the idea that we collectively arrived where we are at today, by the foot steps we took yesterday...

...bam, shut down as if a mad man talking non-sense.

Well I am sorry, but in order for a building to be built the first brick must be laid. I have offered plenty of information for one to take into consideration and research on their own time. If at the end of that process the still feel to be in a position to mock me, then I would hope that they could do it in a scientific and rational manner.


Take back America, take back the world, SLAY ALL SOCIAL SCIENTISTS!!!! ;)

10-Social-Media-Secrets-from-the-Social-Scientist.jpg
 
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WolfSaviorZX

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I believe Donald Trump's willingness to say whatever will get him elected, as well as his demagoguery, are nearly his entire appeal.
Trump flipped on a few issues Abortion and Assault Rifle ban, but Hillary has Flipped on Nearly Every issue (except abortion and assault rifle ban ironically enough). Honestly I might have been behind Bernie as long as he stuck to his guns on being anti-TPP/anti-Nafta etc. but I just can't vote for Hillary I'd much rather have Trump.
 
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Foxi4

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Sorry, didn't mean to trigger you into pulling out your effigy and stabbing it with needles. That's the problem today with American discourse or lack there of, is you bring up certain words or symbols and people will default to certain clichés and stereotypes and never hear the other person out. Sports statistics, recipes, video games, and other forms of meaningless trivia are fare game to discuss at no end, but as soon as someone proposes the idea that we collectively arrived where we are at today, by the foot steps we took yesterday...

...bam, shut down as if a mad man talking non-sense.

Well I am sorry, but in order for a building to be built the first brick must be laid. I have offered plenty of information for one to take into consideration and research on their own time. If at the end of that process the still feel to be in a position to mock me, then I would hope that they could do it in a scientific and rational manner.


Take back America, take back the world, SLAY ALL SOCIAL SCIENTISTS!!!! ;)

10-Social-Media-Secrets-from-the-Social-Scientist.jpg
As someone who grew up in a post-socialist, post-communist environment I have a very visceral reaction to all things Marx. His ideas are all nice on paper, but the premise of living in a constant war of the classes doesn't appeal to me. It's such an outdated concept, these days you can ascend beyond those artificial divisions. I'd rather live in a world where I can pave my way up, one in which having a good idea and capitalizing on it is a mark of success. I feel comfortable dismissing Marx because every attempt at putting his ideas into reality has either crashed and burned or became a totalitarian nightmare. Every fan of Marx should take a hard look at themselves, then Cuba or North Korea, then at themselves again and see if they're still smiling. I'm not even adding China into the mix since it's currently more capitalist than many western countries, however it never quite got rid of the "totalitarian fuckery" bit of the equation. I also can't side with hippies because I don't care for the environment all that much and I value money, so we have no common ground whatsoever.
 

Viri

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You know, as a kid/teen, when I watched a lot of TV, I would get flooded with TV commercials about politicians. It was pretty funny sometimes, because some would be back to back. Like for example "x is bad, vote for y" and the very next commercial would be "y is bad, vote for x" which made me laugh and say "WHAT THE FUCK?!". After getting flooded with those commercials, it made me look forward to election years ending.

Why am I bringing this up you might ask, well, I cannot wait for this election year to be over, as I'm kinda tired of hearing about it. Both choices are bad, and I highly highly doubt a 3rd party will stand a chance, as sad as that is.

 

Engert

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I am voting for Tump.

Obama shouldn't have made fun of him in the correspondents dinner, now trump is like "I'm coming for your job you good for nothing smooth talker piece of shit"
You think only you can smooth talk people into electing you?
Wait till I run for president and I'll show you how it's done!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

2416948677.jpg
 
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The Catboy

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R.I.P Bernie he sold out. May his promises rest in peace
Actually, he still stayed true to his promises. He said he would support Hillary if he didn't win and he supports her.
I personally support her because I'd rather vote Hillary than Trump. And now that Trump has picked Mike Pence as his VP, I am definitely supporting anyone, but him.
 
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Lacius

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R.I.P Bernie he sold out. May his promises rest in peace
Actually, he still stayed true to his promises. He said he would support Hillary if he didn't win and he supports her.
I personally support her because I'd rather vote Hillary than Trump. And now that Trump has picked Mike Pence as his VP, I am definitely supporting anyone, but him.
Secretary Clinton and Senator Sanders are also in alignment on policy 95℅ of the time, while Sanders and Trump are total opposites on policy. Why a Sanders supporter wouldn't vote for Clinton in November is beyond me.
 

The Catboy

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Secretary Clinton and Senator Sanders are also in alignment on policy 95℅ of the time, while Sanders and Trump are total opposites on policy. Why a Sanders supporter wouldn't vote for Clinton in November is beyond me.
I would personally vote for Jill Stein, but sadly I know that would end up being a wasted vote.
Still, I have minor issues with Clinton, but nothing big enough to stop be from voting for her.
 
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Lacius

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I would personally vote for Jill Stein, but sadly I know that would end up being a wasted vote.
Still, I have minor issues with Clinton, but nothing big enough to stop be from voting for her.
Who knows how many people are in the same boat as you and aren't voting for Jill Stein nor Gary Johnson, keeping them around 4% and 8% respectively in a four-way race, when they actually have more support that that? This is why we need something like instant-runoff voting, not to mention the elimination of the Electoral College.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not a big fan of Jill Stein. In a preferential voting system, I would choose:
  1. Hillary Clinton
  2. Jill Stein
  3. Gary Johnson
  4. Donald Trump
 

I pwned U!

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Lacius

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Secretary Clinton is the nominee. She has a majority of the popular vote (55%), a majority of pledged delegates (54%), a majority of superdelegates (78%), and a majority of total delegates (58%). In order for Senator Sanders to overturn the will of the people and get the Democratic nomination, he would have to convince 489 (73%) of the 667 superdelegates who either support Secretary Clinton or haven't supported anybody yet to support him. Even if he got all of the undecided superdelegates, Senator Sanders would still have to convince 68% of Secretary Clinton's 560 superdelegates to switch to him. Most of her superdelegates are establishment Democrats who would never switch to Senator Sanders, and a large number of superdelegates aren't going to be persuaded to go against the winner of the popular vote. Secretary Clinton is also the only Democratic candidate with the money and general election campaign ready to take on Donald Trump.

Senator Sanders usurping the nomination was an absurd idea even before he endorsed Secretary Clinton.
 

The Catboy

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Who knows how many people are in the same boat as you and aren't voting for Jill Stein nor Gary Johnson, keeping them around 4% and 8% respectively in a four-way race, when they actually have more support that that? This is why we need something like instant-runoff voting, not to mention the elimination of the Electoral College.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not a big fan of Jill Stein. In a preferential voting system, I would choose:
  1. Hillary Clinton
  2. Jill Stein
  3. Gary Johnson
  4. Donald Trump
It's one of those things, where we all know we just need more of us to vote, but they don't make enough to get out there. In fact, I actually learned about Jill Stein back in the 2012 election when I took the same test and got 98% agreeing with her platform.
 

Lacius

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It's one of those things, where we all know we just need more of us to vote, but they don't make enough to get out there. In fact, I actually learned about Jill Stein back in the 2012 election when I took the same test and got 98% agreeing with her platform.
I'm not sure, however, how I feel about someone who is willing to unnecessarily split the Democratic vote for no discernible gain.
 
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