Hacking Is it risky to buy a SKY3DS flashcard before knowing the firmware of the N3DS (Europe release)?

[Xzi]

Don't listen to this guy. He doesn't even own a Sky3ds.
Furthermore, every GW person on here has been psychically claiming a "100%!!" block patch since the Sky3ds came out. I am so glad I didn't listen to this drivel. Not only does Sky3ds work, but it's functionality has been increased! It's now regionfree, plays 31 games, and it still and probably always will work on the latest firmware due to the nature of it's design. I actually OWN the card so im speaking from a place of experience vs a place theory/ignorance. Buy the card. And, if you are nervous, now would be the best time to get it as it is working on 9.4.

Owning a Sky3DS is irrelevant to predicting whether or not Nintendo will block it in a future firmware update. All we know is that Sky3DS can be blocked from use in a firmware update. We don't know if or when it will be blocked.

For the time being, Sky3DS is the only option for people on 9.3 or 9.4. And it does what it's advertised to do. It's just that if you're on 9.2 or below, there's really no reason to get anything other than a Gateway. The feature list is much longer.

 

[Foxi4]

Owning a Sky3DS is irrelevant to predicting whether or not Nintendo will block it in a future firmware update. All we know is that Sky3DS can be blocked from use in a firmware update. We don't know if or when it will be blocked.

For the time being, Sky3DS is the only option for people on 9.3 or 9.4. And it does what it's advertised to do. It's just that if you're on 9.2 or below, there's really no reason to get anything other than a Gateway. The feature list is much longer.

What you're saying is inconsequential because anything can be blocked on a firmware level, including the Gateway. If you put the updatability of the Sky3DS into question, I would agree with you - that's a concern since it doesn't run any external kernel of its own, but blocking? That can happen to both cards at any point in time.

 

[tony_2018]

Owning a Sky3DS is irrelevant to predicting whether or not Nintendo will block it in a future firmware update. All we know is that Sky3DS can be blocked from use in a firmware update. We don't know if or when it will be blocked.

For the time being, Sky3DS is the only option for people on 9.3 or 9.4. And it does what it's advertised to do. It's just that if you're on 9.2 or below, there's really no reason to get anything other than a Gateway. The feature list is much longer.

They should have done it by now...I mean they did release 9.4 not too long after 9.3 so whats keeping them from releasing 10.0

What you don't get is the feature list isn't what most members are after. They want to play there roms..........

 

[Hashtastrophe]

You can load the menu prior to displaying it and load the theme last, it doesn't break anything - the theme is just a skin, a GUI over the actual program.

Well, yeah. They could do that. My point was that in its current state delaying the SD card mount would break theme support.

 

[Apache Thunder]

That's not true. EmuNAND as a whole could be neutralized with a simple patch that only allows the Home Menu to be loaded from NAND, GW can be patched just as easily as Sky3DS can.

If it was that simple they would have done that by now. How long has emunand been around? Even if they did block it in this way, Gateway can just patch emunand firmware to either spoof it's location or remove the check entirely. Gateway gains control over the system via a Process9 exploit in the Arm9 CPU. This CPU is the gatekeeper to the entire system. So they are free to do what ever the hell they want to the emunand firmware. Patching out checks would be easy if you have Arm9 control I'm pretty sure.

Hell, it might not even be possible on a software level to tell if the home menu is being run on system NAND or not. Gateway may have altered code in Arm11 or Arm9 (not sure which handles) to load the system from SD. They can then easily patch it so that when ever emunand home menu or other firmware app tries to check where it's installed, the Arm9/Arm11 cpu (not sure which one handles this) will just give it the physical address it would have had on system nand.

I would bet the reason Gateway pushed out updates to get the last series of firmware updates to work were just related to the cryptography side of things. Before Ultra 3.0, all Gateway users were using emunand on a 4.5 system that has the old encryption keys. So Nintendo just had to employ the newer keys in more parts of the firmware. Boom, emunand doesn't boot. Ultra 3.0 users however are already on the correct encryption keys for the current firmware, So I would bet 9.5 when it drops might actually still boot in emunand. Perhaps the cryptography isn't the only reason. Waiting for Gateway to update to get emunand work again may have been the result of Nintendo already implementing something like this. By default the firmware is supposed to be run from internal NAND. I'm sure there's already checks in the firmware to make sure it's been executed from the right storage locations. Gateway's already patched around that.

Long story short, I don't see Nintendo preventing emunand use anytime soon. Nintendo can only block Gateway working on systems already on a firmware that can't be exploited. Once an Arm11 and then Arm9 exploit is found, all consoles on that firmware is lost to Nintendo forever pretty much. Ultra 3.0 expanded the amount of exploitable consoles ten fold.

Though honestly I think Nintendo is more worried about Sky3DS as that reletively more user friendly and more of the casual gamers (the majority of their market base for this console most likley) would have an easier time picking one up and using it. Gateway requires fiddling around with exploits, setting up emunand, and what not. A lot of these systems are bought for young children and parents probably don't want to mess around with stuff like that. Sky3DS despite it's terrible design and lack of updatability is a bigger threat to Nintendo's profits then Gateway is right now.

Of coarse once they do block it, they'll render all those Sky3DS's really expensive paperweights. I feel sorry for all the people duped into buying one. Hell they won't even make good paper weights. 3DS cartridges are tiny and weigh hardly anything.

I'm betting Nintendo might drop a new SDK version soon though especially with the New3DS finally being available everywhere. Expect to see them roll over to new encryption keys.

 

[Xzi]

They should have done it by now...I mean they did release 9.4 not too long after 9.3 so whats keeping them from releasing 10.0

What you don't get is the feature list isn't what most members are after. They want to play there roms..........

Both 9.3 and 9.4 were released not long after Sky3DS made its debut. Stopping it from functioning was not on Nintendo's to-do list for those firmware updates. Even if it is relatively easy for them to do, what takes time is quality assurance for each firmware update Nintendo pushes. There can be no 1% of consoles having issues, even if that's well within the acceptable percentage for Sky3DS or Gateway.

What you're saying is inconsequential because anything can be blocked on a firmware level, including the Gateway. If you put the updatability of the Sky3DS into question, I would agree with you - that's a concern since it doesn't run any external kernel of its own, but blocking? That can happen to both cards at any point in time.

True enough. It would just come down to a matter of reputation at that point. Gateway we know would start work on finding another method to keep their cart running for their customers, because they've done countless updates on emuNAND in the past. We have no idea when or if the Sky3DS team would fix their cart's compatibility with a new Nintendo firmware update, though, because they have yet to prove themselves in that regard.

 

[Foxi4]

If it was that simple they would have done that by now. How long has emunand been around? Even if they did block it in this way, Gateway can just patch emunand firmware to either spoof it's location or remove the check entirely. Gateway gains control over the system via a Process9 exploit in the Arm9 CPU. This CPU is the gatekeeper to the entire system. So they are free to do what ever the hell they want to the emunand firmware. Patching out checks would be easy if you have Arm9 control I'm pretty sure.

Hell, it might not even be possible on a software level to tell if the home menu is being run on system NAND or not. Gateway may have altered code in Arm11 or Arm9 (not sure which handles) to load the system from SD. They can then easily patch it so that when ever emunand home menu or other firmware app tries to check where it's installed, the Arm9/Arm11 cpu (not sure which one handles this) will just give it the physical address it would have had on system nand.

I would bet the reason Gateway pushed out updates to get the last series of firmware updates to work were just related to the cryptography side of things. Before Ultra 3.0, all Gateway users were using emunand on a 4.5 system that has the old encryption keys. So Nintendo just had to employ the newer keys in more parts of the firmware. Boom, emunand doesn't boot. Ultra 3.0 users however are already on the correct encryption keys for the current firmware, So I would bet 9.5 when it drops might actually still boot in emunand. Perhaps the cryptography isn't the only reason. Waiting for Gateway to update to get emunand work again may have been the result of Nintendo already implementing something like this. By default the firmware is supposed to be run from internal NAND. I'm sure there's already checks in the firmware to make sure it's been executed from the right storage locations. Gateway's already patched around that.

Long story short, I don't see Nintendo preventing emunand use anytime soon. Nintendo can only block Gateway working on systems already on a firmware that can't be exploited. Once an Arm11 and then Arm9 exploit is found, all consoles on that firmware is lost to Nintendo forever pretty much. Ultra 3.0 expanded the amount of exploitable consoles ten fold.

Though honestly I think Nintendo is more worried about Sky3DS as that reletively more user friendly and more of the casual gamers (the majority of their market base for this console most likley) would have an easier time picking one up and using it. Gateway requires fiddling around with exploits, setting up emunand, and what not. A lot of these systems are bought for young children and parents probably don't want to mess around with stuff like that. Sky3DS despite it's terrible design and lack of updatability is a bigger threat to Nintendo's profits then Gateway is right now.

Of coarse once they do block it, they'll render all those Sky3DS's really expensive paperweights. I feel sorry for all the people duped into buying one. Hell they won't even make good paper weights. 3DS cartridges are tiny and weigh hardly anything.

I'm betting Nintendo might drop a new SDK version soon though especially with the New3DS finally being available everywhere. Expect to see them roll over to new encryption keys.

Yes, it is that simple and can be blocked, Nintendo is just terrible at security, we've been through this with the DS/DSi. How many years of playing cat and mouse of Nintendo blocking headers and flashcart manufacturers updating them the next day did it take before Nintendo finally blocked most flashcarts by detecting hardware? 5 years? 6? They're incompetent, I don't know how to phrase this better, they really are.

You make fun of the Sky3DS when it's the Gateway users that always cry buckets of tears when Nintendo changes keys and the only way to fix the issue is to wait for someone to leak them so that Gateways are usable again - a bit of a double standard there.

My point is, both cards can be blocked and this is fact, neither behaves like a real cartridge does and they can be rendered inoperable at any point in time - get used to that thought because it's true.

 

[Xzi]

Yes, it is that simple and can be blocked, Nintendo is just terrible at security, we've been through this with the DS/DSi. How many years of playing cat and mouse of Nintendo blocking headers and flashcarts manufacturers updating them did it take before Nintendo finally blocked them on by detecting hardware? 5 years? 6? They're incompetent, I don't know how to phrase this better, they really are.

Well, I'm glad they are. Makes for easier soft/hard modding. Wish they had at least been able to keep up with online functionality in their games, though.

 

[kamesenin888]

Yes, it is that simple and can be blocked, Nintendo is just terrible at security, we've been through this with the DS/DSi. How many years of playing cat and mouse of Nintendo blocking headers and flashcart manufacturers updating them the next day did it take before Nintendo finally blocked most flashcarts by detecting hardware? 5 years? 6? They're incompetent, I don't know how to phrase this better, they really are.

You make fun of the Sky3DS when it's the Gateway users that always cry buckets of tears when Nintendo changes keys and the only way to fix the issue is to wait for someone to leak them so that Gateways are usable again - a bit of a double standard there.

My point is, both cards can be blocked and this is fact, neither behaves like a real cartridge does and they can be rendered inoperable at any point in time - get used to that thought because it's true.

That's not entirely true, kernel exploits that give total control to the console, it's like being an artist and having a lump of clay, you can give it any form at whim, in the past the ds cartridge never had that type of control over the console, the gateway is indeed blocked in sysnand but emunand is nearly impossible to block permanently, even though is blocked from time to time. The sad thing about sky3ds is that if the cat catches the mouse once it's lost forever, gateway are immortal mouses that even if catched they don't die

 

[Foxi4]

That's not entirely true, kernel exploits that give total control to the console, it's like being an artist and having a lump of clay, you can give it any form at whim, in the past the ds cartridge never had that type of control over the console, the gateway is indeed blocked in sysnand, emunand is nearly impossible to block permanently, even though is blocked from time to time, the sad thing about sky3ds is that if the cat catches the mouse once it's lost forever, gateway are immortal mouses that even if catched they don't die

If Gateway is blocked the same way as old DS carts were, no amount of crying will change that and EmuNAND will end there and then. Kernel control won't give you jack on a firmware that downright refuses to boot and rejects the cartridge that's inserted on the basis of its hardware. By the time Gateway would deal with *professional* obfuscation in order to implement patches we'd be playing on our QuadDS'es, that's just fact. This is not a DSTwo situation where you have an independent processor and memory and can spoof whatever you want - we're talking about a small CPLD with little space for instructions. Will it be blocked? Probably not because Nintendo doesn't know what they're doing. Can it be blocked? Yes, and effectively too.

 

[Deleted-355425]

Yes it's fine to buy one now in preparation for the new 3ds launch, they will come with somthing lower or equal to.. 9.4 and sky3ds works just fine right now on the EUR new 3ds.

 

[SLiV3R]

Why can't we have both? I ordered a sky3ds a couple of days ago. Will probably buy gw mid February for my N3ds. It's not that much money we are talking about ^^

 

[guitarheroknight]

I guess it's clear who stands on who's border here. All in all the fact is that when Sky3ds gets block then it's fucking blocked, and BAM there goes your $100 In the wind, while on Gateway as long as it has kernel access there will always be other possible ways to go around obstacles due to its nature.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Hey guys since the N3DS will be released on 13th of february (in Europe) I was wondering if it would be too risky to order the SKY3DS card before purchasing the handheld. Is it possible that Nintendo could patch the firmware until release in order to make the flashcard useless? I am asking because shipping of the SKY3DS takes about 2 to 3 weeks (according to the reseller) and I'd probably die waiting for it.
PS: Maybe I should just freeze myself. (butters help me)

Highly unlikely. They probably have a lot of n3DSes already produced, sitting in a warehouse somewhere ready for the release. Most likely they will be on 9.2 which GW will work on as well.

 

[Miles54321]

I'm currently focusing on the Gateway train, still has a few weeks to reach my stop but it'll be worth the wait

I'm sure I've asked this before somewhere else but what other cards were out there around the 4.5 Gateway days like a year or two ago and did they ever get discountinued?

Or are QQDS, region 3 loader, Sky3ds and gateway our only 4 3ds cards we've ever had?

 

[Frederik]

I'm currently focusing on the Gateway train, still has a few weeks to reach my stop but it'll be worth the wait

I want to know why there are no Informations what firmware is used on US/EUR New 3DS . The Hardware will be sold on 13. Feb., so it MUST be in stock already. Where are the Guys working at Gamestop, Amazon ect. ?? Please unbox only 1 New 3DS an tell us the Firmware.

 

[Miles54321]

Yeh, possibly getting closer to release date they may unbox one and tell us, if you live in Europe and can't wait Australian n3ds are good choices though

 

[Deleted-355425]

Yeh, possibly getting closer to release date they may unbox one and tell us, if you live in Europe and can't wait Australian n3ds are good choices though

Yah they are the same as what Europe will will be getting.

 

[Miles54321]

Yah they are the same as what Europe will will be getting.

Out of all the N3ds i'd have to say the best looking one is the new monster hunter 4 ultimate by far, and it looks like US lucked out by not getting the N3ds regular

 

[DjoeN]

Just have to say this, sky3ds is not $100 or $80, of you look around you can get it for around $70
I have a sky3ds and gateway and yes gateway does all this fancy stuff, but when you have a n3ds or 3ds on fw 9.4.0.21x, sky3ds is a good solution if you just care for piracy, gateway is the beter solution of you care for 100% piracy and the extra's (don't tell you don't , thats like you having a car and saying you never, ever have driven 1 km or mph faster then you are allowed. The few that actually do only use it for homebrew you can count on 1 hand, cause the are better of with buying and using cubic ninja instead of gateway.)

Both solutions are not cheap anyway. Nintendo had blocked emunand in the past and yes gateway found a solution everytime, but Nintendo always Goes for the big fish, and the biggest is gateway now, eshop, games, cartridge dumps, homebrew, regionfree, etc.., sky3ds region locker games (not anymore, but not simple)
Simple put, gateway is a bigger problem for Nintendo as sky3ds. (Look at how it was with ds flashcarts)

That said, iTS all up to the op what he does, sky3ds, gateway! I thing the debat sky/gateway never should have taken such propertions as it is now here on gbatemp, people should have 2 informative pages here with pro's and cons clearly explained, (and thats another issue, new people should Be forced to learn to read and search)

Get informed
Weight pro's VS cons
Look at what you want
Buy what you want
Don't let other say what you have to buy, the can help you see the difference and tell there experience see the "get informed part"

This way the can't blame anyone but thereself of the bought wrong cart or bricked there console for whatever reason, etc...

Note: written on an ipad2 on latest ios, it really suxs!