Hacking Gateway support for Firmware 9.0 – 9.2 Coming

[KennyMckormick]

seeing as you like playing Sherlock Holmes, here is what your basing your "deductive reasoning" on "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

now im wondering how you have eliminated all other possible explanations? based on what gateway have said "the old cards will work on 9.x" no mention of how or why or if any extra steps will be involved.....so its perfectly feasible that they would need to be updated before they work.....at which point how do you conclude that the only way this could possible happen is on the 9.x console itself? there are possibilities that don't just = kernel exploit, they could have a usermode exploit like sspwn and update the FPGA like that, they could indeed want the FPGA's updated using a 4.x console( be it by the user or the reseller), its also a possibility they would sell a upgrade dongle so people can update the FPGA via pc, then there is the remote chance they are just trying to delay people buying sky3ds whilst they try find something fast.

none of those points have been eliminated, you have simply picked the one that sounds most likely(tbh i would say a usermode exploit would be more likely than a kernel exploit, so its more a matter of picking the one you like the sound of most)......which is simply deductive speculation

I'm tired of this game now. Screw this. I've explained my reasoning countless of times. I'll just wait till GW releases

 

[Duo8]

I'm tired of this game now. Screw this. I've explained my reasoning countless of times. I'll just wait till GW releases

Can you do it again in like 1 post bc tldr.

 

[gamesquest1]

I'm tired of this game now. Screw this. I've explained my reasoning countless of times. I'll just wait till GW releases

good, you have been bashing other people for speculating, when that's all you where doing, if people would just wait we would know either way, at the very least we would need quite a bit more info before we could come to any positive conclusion

PS im not saying its impossible what you said, but its far from the only possible explanation

 

[KennyMckormick]

good, you have been bashing other people for speculating, when that's all you where doing, if people would just wait we would know either way, at the very least we would need quite a bit more info before we could come to any positive conclusion

Geez. It's not speculation when you're deriving the only possibly outcome based on the information at hand. Speculating means guessing what may or may not happen using the information provided or using the lack of information.

Duo8, I made a series of deductions based on what GW has provided so far. Everyone else are making guesses based on what GW has not said so far or they are selectively choosing their favored outcome when there are heaps.

 

[gamesquest1]

Geez. It's not speculation when you're deriving the only possibly outcome based on the information at hand. Speculating means guessing what may or may not happen using the information provided or using the lack of information.

Duo8, I made a series of deductions based on what GW has provided so far. Everyone else are making guesses based on what GW has not said so far or they are selectively choosing their favored outcome when there are heaps.

seriously .....deduce the other explanations i think you don't know what a deduction is....gateway has given a tiny amount of info and you seem to think that "the old cards will work on 9.x" = "the old gateway card will work with the same functionality as on 4.x and will be up-datable on a 9.x console" im sorry but that's speculation you haven't done any deducing you have simply picked which one make the most sense in your head, see to deduce you have to eliminate the possibility of something else being the case.....how did you eliminate usermode exploit, pre updating the card to use on 9.x, or even gateway lying based on the tiny bit of info gateway released?

but whatever, keep claiming your theory is the only possible explanation, i don't care, but its rude to start bashing other people for speculating when at least other people are big enough to admit they are just speculating

 

[Sonicx64]

I have a question. Does the firmware that comes with the New 3DS units come with themes installed? According to 3DSBrew the NEW 3DS units come with system firmware 8.1.0-0 and it wasn't until 9.0.0.20 that themes became available.

If this exploit is based on the themes I'd be curious if an out of the box 8.1.0-0 New 3DS is hackable.

I'm still on the fence about buying one, but if I don't get one soon I'm afraid Nintendo would have already released a new firmware blocking the potential Gateway exploit.

 

[gamesquest1]

I have a question. Does the firmware that comes with the New 3DS units come with themes installed? According to 3DSBrew the NEW 3DS units come with system firmware 8.1.0-0 and it wasn't until 9.0.0.20 that themes became available.

If this exploit is based on the themes I'd be curious if an out of the box 8.1.0-0 New 3DS is hackable.

I'm still on the fence about buying one, but if I don't get one soon I'm afraid Nintendo would have already released a new firmware blocking the potential Gateway exploit.

there will be the possibility of updating via cart, pokemon ORAS will almost certainly have the 9.1-9.2 update on cart, so even if you miss the update window you will just have to buy a retail game with the update included

 

[Oishikatta]

there will be the possibility of updating via cart, pokemon ORAS will almost certainly have the 9.1-9.2 update on cart, so even if you miss the update window you will just have to buy a retail game with the update included

Pretty ironic that nintendo's system of forcing updates via carts is what's used to get exploitable firmwares.

 

[HomebrewEnthusiast109876]

Did they ever fix that bug where if you exit out of certain games to the home menu you get kicked off emunand?

Getting really tired of loading up health and safety info.

 

[gamesquest1]

Pretty ironic that nintendo's system of forcing updates via carts is what's used to get exploitable firmwares.

yeah but don't forget how many consoles have been updated past exploitable firmwares due to games requiring a newer update to be played, its a double edged sword, but one they get the better side of the deal on

Did they ever fix that bug where if you exit out of certain games to the home menu you get kicked off emunand?

Getting really tired of loading up health and safety info.

nope not yet, although its not so much a bug as what the console is supposed to do, even retail consoles reset after exiting smash bros its was nintendo's "dirty fix" to reallocate the ram after playing smash bros

the fact opening another app prevents it is more of a glitch XD

 

[justln]

Did they ever fix that bug where if you exit out of certain games to the home menu you get kicked off emunand?

Getting really tired of loading up health and safety info.

Is that really a bug and do you really want them spending time fixing it? I only know Super Smash Bros, Monster Hunter 4 and Monster Hunter 4G cause the old 3DS to reboot.

 

[KennyMckormick]

I've rephrased my earlier post because it seems there's a spell of confusion going around.

Here are the facts as provided by GW as of today

1. GW says to stay on 9.0-9.20
2. 9.x support is implemented via software update NOT hardware update.

What we can know from "GW says to stay on 9.0-9.20"

• Absolutely nothing at all.
• It could be that it's a more limited exploit, it could be to prevent confusion, it could be to prevent users on 4.x having to wait a long time for this new update
• Basically there are too many possibilities to form any single logical conclusion

What we can deduce from "9.x support is implemented via software update NOT hardware update."

The software update can either be a newer version of launcher.dat OR it could be a FPGA update

Assume that its a FPGA update

• Previously a FPGA update was done via the use of a launcher.dat which then flashed the newer instructions to the FPGA. It stands to reason that this will be the case this time round as well since it was used before.
• A FPGA update could be done via automatic flashing of an image on GW's mSD card IF there are some inbuilt routines in the GW card. This is unlikely to exist since GW opted for the launcher.dat method. It is also unlikely that GW would have the foresight to implement such a routine during the previous FPGA update as the launcher.dat method works well for them, there's no reason to go the extra mile
• HENCE, it is likely that a FPGA update will be done via a launcher.dat. This means kernel access.
• It could be possible that a FPGA update be done via a userland exploit like sspwn but extremely unlikely as userland exploits will not have the necessary permissions (i might not be correct on this but correct me if I'm wrong)

Next up, it's just a newer launcher.dat

• Still need a kernel exploit to launch launcher.dat
• Upside is that this will mean that 9.x will be able to do everything 4.x can.

Hence in conclusion,

• No matter if GW chooses to update FPGA or just replace a newer launcher.dat, it STILL REQUIRES a kernel exploit.
• This means that based on what GW has told us so far, it most definitely means it's a new 9.0-9.2 kernel exploit

But wait!

• Blah blah it could be blah blah
• GW has not shown this so it must mean blah blah
• Why would GW say blah blah if blah blah
• ALL THE ABOVE 3 points are just baseless useless meaningless speculation.

The conclusion that there is a new 9.x exploit is based on the fact that gateway has said it's a software update and hence determining the types of software update that are possible and then deriving the means to achieve the software updates, this conclusion can only be disproved IF GW has lied about it being a software update solution OR if miraculously a userland exploit has the necessary permissions to perform a FPGA update.

seriously .....deduce the other explanations i think you don't know what a deduction is....gateway has given a tiny amount of info and you seem to think that "the old cards will work on 9.x" = "the old gateway card will work with the same functionality as on 4.x and will be up-datable on a 9.x console" im sorry but that's speculation you haven't done any deducing you have simply picked which one make the most sense in your head, see to deduce you have to eliminate the possibility of something else being the case.....how did you eliminate usermode exploit, pre updating the card to use on 9.x, or even gateway lying based on the tiny bit of info gateway released?

but whatever, keep claiming your theory is the only possible explanation, i don't care, but its rude to start bashing other people for speculating when at least other people are big enough to admit they are just speculating

"the deriving of a conclusion by reasoning; specifically : inference in which the conclusion about particulars follows necessarily from general or universal premises — compare"

I made a conclusion based on the premises that GW says that its a software update.

I've eliminated usermode exploit as a means of updating the card as IIRC usermode does not have any permissions beyond SDK and AFAIK, updating the FPGA will require elevated privileges which requires kernel access. I might be severely wrong on this BUT I know for sure that the majority of people here do not know if its possible to do such a thing with userland. THIS becomes speculative and hence I immediately disregard this as there is simply no way to tell for sure. Preupdating the card? Etc etc? This are all just tidbits pulled out of orifices without any substantiation. Not to say that it's impossible just that we can't know for sure since GW has not mentioned anything. Bam. More useless speculation.

My theory is based on reasoning derived from what we DO KNOW so far. I'm not saying that in the end it has to be the only possible explanation. I'm saying that until GW decides to release more information, it's the only logical explanation. This is what you're not getting. I'm insisting that my theory is accurate on the premises that what information gateway has provided as of late is true. This may change later on.

As of now, all other explanations are rendered meaningless because they are explanations pulled from thin air in a futile attempt to bring meaning to the current situation. Also, you fail to see that I do not admit that my theory is iron clad, I admit that the whole thing will fall apart with new conflicting information. As for you, you're just trying to minimalise the impact of my theory by calling me a small person and rude when all I have done so far is to refute other wild speculative theories that have little to no basis on facts.

 

[gamesquest1]

*snip*

so as i said its deductive speculation, i agree there is plenty of BS being spouted, but there is also valid points that are being dismissed on the basis that they don't fit with your theory.....i havent made any claims that i know what this is going to entail....and do you know why?, because nobody except gateway knows so why bother with all the trying to draw conclusions from the tiny bit of information they have shared just wait and it will become clear, saying stuff like "its only logical that this HAS to be a kernel exploit" is silly when you just admitted that you don't know........just wait and see maybe it is, maybe it isnt but forming a opinion right now is stupid

 

[KennyMckormick]

so as i said its deductive speculation

False. It's only deductive speculation if there wasn't solid evidence. Claiming that its up-datable via userland now that is speculation and hence the reason why I discounted this.

We've got evidence in the form of statements provided by GW that it's a software update. Hence the logical deduction based on this piece of evidence is 9.x kernel exploit.

 

[HomebrewEnthusiast109876]

Is that really a bug and do you really want them spending time fixing it? I only know Super Smash Bros, Monster Hunter 4 and Monster Hunter 4G cause the old 3DS to reboot.

Oh so it's only those 3 games? Not such a big deal afterall.

 

[Azebu]

Well, I'll drop my 3 cents.

I e-mailed Gateway, and they said we won't need any new models of Gateway.

About all that panic about 9.3, don't worry so much. Even if Nintendo released 9.3 before ORAS/N3DS ships, they wouldn't fix the exploit, because they don't know what it is. Okay, it would be wise to wait for a word from Gateway if Nintendo pushes an update, just in case they did find something, but there is no need to say "9.3 is death". I'd say there is a huge chance that it will work on 9.3, as well as 9.4.

 

[Friendsxix]

False. It's only deductive speculation if there wasn't solid evidence. Claiming that its up-datable via userland now that is speculation and hence the reason why I discounted this.

We've got evidence in the form of statements provided by GW that it's a software update. Hence the logical deduction based on this piece of evidence is 9.x kernel exploit.

Dude. That isn't "proof" nor even logical. Why can't they release a patch for the GW that has it fall back to operating like a sky 3ds if a 3ds running emunand isn't detected? That is a 100% plausible, alternate explanation. Maybe there won't even be a Launcher.DAT for 9.2.0 consoles!

And the lack of an update path isn't that stupid either. Clearly those who bought a Gateway already should have the means to update on a 4.5.0 3ds. Those who haven't can probably buy their first Gateway pre-updated from a retailer.

Is what I said above fact? Not at all, but it does counter your "one possibility" logic, doesn't it?

 

[KennyMckormick]

Dude. That isn't "proof" nor even logical. Why can't they release a patch for the GW that has it fall back to operating like a sky 3ds if a 3ds running emunand isn't detected? That is a 100% plausible, alternate explanation. Maybe there won't even be a Launcher.DAT for 9.2.0 consoles!

And the lack of an update path isn't that stupid either. Clearly those who bought a Gateway already should have the means to update on a 4.5.0 3ds. Those who haven't can probably buy their first Gateway pre-updated from a retailer.

Is what I said above fact? Not at all, but it does counter your "one possibility" logic, doesn't it?

Maybe GW have unlocked the long hidden source of mystical energies and are using it to run roms on 9.2. This is an entirely plausible alternate albeit equally idiotic explanation.

You can counter anything if you wish to. Unfortunately you're using illogical counters.

 

[Vappy]

You're expending way too much effort on speculation over a flashcart.

 

[gamesquest1]

You're expending way too much effort on speculation over a flashcart.

*"deductive reasoning logic apparent based on facts etc"
simple fact is the guy is trying to use the logic that because we don't know 90% of the story we should just assume there is nothing there

no Sherlock Holmes wannabe worth their funny little hat and pipe would try draw a conclusion with so little information