Hardware Launching for $/€499 / £429? Are they serious?

[Pong20302000]

people moaning about the price

its Region free

therefore people will just import it from wherever is cheapest and sell different plugs for it

 

[kristianity77]

$500 isn't an unreasonable price. Just because the WiiU is made of rocks and fucking duct tape and can sell for a few $ doesn't mean MS or Sony can do the same with their console.

Consoles are expensive to make, and this is a business. They're trying to make money, not give you free entertainment cuz they're swell guys.
If people crying went out and got a job instead of whining about prices you could probably afford the thing. Microsoft isn't a bunch of overpricing stingy shits just because they're trying to make money by ...RUNNING A BUSINESS!

I get a laugh out of people. Too expensive? Don't buy. No point crying and calling Microsoft names, they don't give a shit. Why would they.

Also i'll note, i'm not getting the xbone. Too many restrictions, but even still I don't find $500 to be wildly unreasonable, just more than i'm willing to pay just to get a brand new console that will only be relevant to me after a year of game releases.

You'd think Microsoft would give a shit if their new xbox sits on the shelves and doesn't sell because enough people dont want to pay the price, so thats a bit of a silly statement.

And also, if Microsoft didnt give a shit about what the so called consumer thought, then why did they backtrack on all of their policies hmm?

I'm not buying one either, and the reason, I aint paying through the nose for parts of a console that I dont want forced on me like Kinect. Take Kinect out, drop the price to the same level as the PS4 and it would begin to look a lot more attractive.

Its ridiculous really. If it doesnt sell well at that price, then they wouldnt have a choice but to knock a sizable chunk off the RRP sooner rather than later anyway. Why bother letting it go that far, just sell a version without Kinect to compete price wise with the PS4 and let the consumer decide whether they want a shitty camera or not

 

[McHaggis]

people moaning about the price

its Region free

therefore people will just import it from wherever is cheapest and sell different plugs for it

There is absolutely no flaw in that plan whatsoever.

...Except, of course, the additional duties and/or taxes applicable to imported products, plus an increased cost of shipping, which will roughly round out the total cost more-or-less equivalent to that of the product in your native country (on an XBox One, you might be lucky to save a tenner importing one to the UK). Then there's the matter of guarantees and returns, where it's not quite as simple as just taking the box back to the store you bought it from when it doesn't work.

 

[Pong20302000]

There is absolutely no flaw in that plan whatsoever.

...Except, of course, the additional duties and/or taxes applicable to imported products, plus an increased cost of shipping, which will roughly round out the total cost more-or-less equivalent to that of the product in your native country (on an XBox One, you might be lucky to save a tenner importing one to the UK). Then there's the matter of guarantees and returns, where it's not quite as simple as just taking the box back to the store you bought it from when it doesn't work.

well if its cheaper in America i will get a American friend to go onto a air force base to grab me one
as its completely Tax Free for the forces

and can return it if faulty

 

[Hells Malice]

You'd think Microsoft would give a shit if their new xbox sits on the shelves and doesn't sell because enough people dont want to pay the price, so thats a bit of a silly statement.

Yup and luckily it'll likely sell like hotcakes because there's hundreds of thousands of little kiddies who will be screaming to have it for the cods and haylows.
At $500 the pricepoint is easily affordable with a bit of a nudge, so no problems there.
I hesitate to even bother reading the rest of your post if THATS the horrible argument you start with.

Alas I read further and I do regret it. They don't give a shit if whiners can't pay the $500 pricepoint is what i mean, obviously since that was the topic of my entire post pretty much.

Being forcefed the kinnect is a pain, but not a dealbreaker. The pricepoint is still reasonable.

I'm not saying MS has a flawless business plan. They've fucked up plenty, but not enough to start screaming "MICROSOFT IS DEAD!" from the rooftops. The pricepoint is fine, the console isn't that horrendous. I believe kinect is required in some aspects, which is total crap, but again not really a dealbreaker.

Again, don't like? Don't buy. Doesn't matter to MS, they'll get plenty of sales elsewhere. If you think it wont sell, you're deluding yourself just because you yourself do not want the console.

 

[LegendAssassinF]

I never understood why people cared about graphics on home consoles if you want better graphics switch to PC.... it is cheaper and upgrade able

 

[Gahars]

$500 isn't an unreasonable price. Just because the WiiU is made of rocks and fucking duct tape and can sell for a few $ doesn't mean MS or Sony can do the same with their console.

Consoles are expensive to make, and this is a business. They're trying to make money, not give you free entertainment cuz they're swell guys.
If people crying went out and got a job instead of whining about prices you could probably afford the thing. Microsoft isn't a bunch of overpricing stingy shits just because they're trying to make money by ...RUNNING A BUSINESS!

I get a laugh out of people. Too expensive? Don't buy. No point crying and calling Microsoft names, they don't give a shit. Why would they.

Also i'll note, i'm not getting the xbone. Too many restrictions, but even still I don't find $500 to be wildly unreasonable, just more than i'm willing to pay just to get a brand new console that will only be relevant to me after a year of game releases.

My issue is that it's $100 more expensive than the PS4 despite being the weaker console. Sure, that $100 goes towards the Kinect... but why would I want that?

If the Kinect was kept optional, Microsoft could actually price the One competitively on the market. With it made mandatory, however, they are saddled with having the highest price tag of all three consoles by a somewhat wide margin. That can definitely hurt a console at the outset, so I don't think the naysaying is entirely unwarranted.

Microsoft's not going to die and they're not evil, but they're certainly more than capable of making mistakes.

 

[McHaggis]

$500 isn't an unreasonable price. Just because the WiiU is made of rocks and fucking duct tape and can sell for a few $ doesn't mean MS or Sony can do the same with their console.

Consoles are expensive to make, and this is a business. They're trying to make money, not give you free entertainment cuz they're swell guys.

Consoles don't have to be expensive to make, the Wii was proof of that. There seems to be some misconception that consoles need to have both bleeding edge technology and relatively useless gimmicks. At least the Wii U only went with a relatively useless (thus far) gimmick. I don't need to have eye-watering graphics, nor do I want to flail around in front of a camera to play games. Nor do I need another way to stream movies or play blu-rays. For fuck's sake, I just want to play games.

The PS4 has the XBox One beaten in power and is cheaper by $100 (IIRC) so, for anyone who just wants to play games, the XBox One is too expensive in any sense of the word that matters to that person. Like emigre pointed out, it's stupid to pay extra for things that don't matter to you.

 

[Foxi4]

Consoles don't have to be expensive to make, the Wii was proof of that.

Why yes, the Wii was proof of something indeed. It was proof that you can release a console which is underpowered from Day 1 and still successfuly market it and sell it, the DS was the exact same deal.

There seems to be some misconception that consoles need to have both bleeding edge technology and relatively useless gimmicks.

You mean the WiiMote, right?

At least the Wii U only went with a relatively useless (thus far) gimmick. I don't need to have eye-watering graphics, nor do I want to flail around in front of a camera to play games.

Processing power does not eye-watering graphics make. If you want to have games released for the system, it has to match the requirements for contemporary and future game engines. The processing power of both the GPU and the CPU go towards not just graphics, but also game logic in general, for example physics or AI. The console also requires a sufficient amount of memory so that the game code, textures, sound and other content can be stored in a fast access area. Needless to say, those things cost.

Nor do I need another way to stream movies or play blu-rays. For fuck's sake, I just want to play games.

Because having ten boxes next to your TV is practical. A video game console has more than enough horsepower to support video playback and online streaming and the cost of adding those features is minimal - give me one good reason why it shouldn't have them? It was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Wii's disc drive supports DVD discs and was merely gimped not to do so so that Nintendo doesn't have to pay royalties to the DVD format owners - why? I would gladly pay the extra $5-25 for my unit if it had that feature because I hate clutter.

The PS4 has the XBox One beaten in power and is cheaper by $100 (IIRC) so, for anyone who just wants to play games, the XBox One is too expensive in any sense of the word that matters to that person. Like emigre pointed out, it's stupid to pay extra for things that don't matter to you.

Not if those features are essential for the operation of the unit itself. If XBox One games or the GUI will use the Kinect 2.0 extensively, be it for voice commands or motion sensing, the device suddenly becomes indispensible. The Wii was bundled with the WiiMotes and the Sensor Bar despite having four perfectly usable Gamecube gamepad connectors - why wasn't the GUI in any way operational without the WiiMote? Should I be upset about that and rave that the system's price was unnecessarily inflated by such a move? No, because the Sensor Bar and the WiiMote were indispensible and an integral part of the console's ecosystem. Now so is the Kinect 2.0, and the only difference is that it's far more advanced than the Wii's IR Camera + IR diodes combo. I don't have a problem with the Kinect 2.0 being bundled with the system, I just sincerely doubt that it costs $100 on its own.

 

[Ethevion]

I never understood why people cared about graphics on home consoles if you want better graphics switch to PC.... it is cheaper and upgrade able

You can't get the graphics of console exclusives on PC.

 

[the_randomizer]

*reads OP on Xbox One having quite the price....proceeds to play both Wii U and PC*

 

[LegendAssassinF]

You can't get the graphics of console exclusives on PC.

Nowadays "hardcore" gamers only care about how well their CoD or BF look.... You can get away with just a PC and Nintendo console if you want some of the best games ever made. Next-gen is going to be different too since PS4 and Xbone will be made with a CPU that can support easy ports to a PC. Most of the best selling games do have PC ports that are relatively good.

 

[Foxi4]

I never understood why people cared about graphics on home consoles if you want better graphics switch to PC.... it is cheaper and upgrade able

PC's are cheaper than consoles? Since when? Video game consoles branched from the PC's of the past specifically as the cheaper, more cost-effective gaming solution. The price of a video game console is a fraction of the price of a gaming-oriented PC.

Moreover, the fact that PC's are upgradable inflates expenses, not deflates them. When buying a video game console you practically have a guarantee that whatever game you buy for it will work at peak performance from the get-go - with PC you have to be aware of the fact that you will need to upgrade your rig periodically to keep up with the times and those upgrades are sometimes quite substantial. CPU standards change and with them the sockets, same with memory. You can't just upgrade a rig indefinitely - sometimes you need to build one from scratch.

Nowadays "hardcore" gamers only care about how well their CoD or BF look.... You can get away with just a PC and Nintendo console if you want some of the best games ever made. Next-gen is going to be different too since PS4 and Xbone will be made with a CPU that can support easy ports to a PC. Most of the best selling games do have PC ports that are relatively good.

Can't wait to play all my favourites like "Forza", "Ratchet & Clank", "Jak & Daxter", "Syphon Filter", "inFamous", "Uncharted", "KillZone", "LittleBigPlanet", "Kingdom Hearts", "Resistance", "Gears of War", "Project Gotham Racing", (...goes on and on) OH WAIT!, those are console exclusives*.

Nintendo isn't the only company with console-exclusive games y'know.




*Not actually my favourites, I'm merely making a point here.

 

[LegendAssassinF]

PC's are cheaper than consoles? Since when? Video game consoles branched from the PC's of the past and became the cheaper, more cost-effective gaming solution. The price of a video game console is a fraction of the price of a gaming-oriented PC. Moreover, the fact that PC's are upgradable inflates expenses, not deflates them. When buying a video game console you practically have a guarantee that whatever game you buy for it will work at peak performance from the get-go - with PC you have to be aware of the fact that you will need to upgrade your rig periodically to keep up with the times and those upgrades are sometimes quite substantial. CPU standards change and with them the sockets, same with memory. You can't just upgrade a rig indefinitely - sometimes you need to build one from scratch.

You can easily put down 500-600$ to play games for next generation at 1080p. Depending on parts you could upgrade for a very long time it is a matter of just picking the right Motherboard that can handle it. It is cheaper because unlike console games PC games go on sale all the time. You can even get a good deal on a GPU that will come with 2-3 even 4 new games. Then stack that with another deal that comes with free RAM or SDD that comes with another game. A console game will have a 60$ price tag for the first couple months on the other hand most PC games will start at 50$ and go on sale usually within the first two months. Tomb Raider brand new would cost you 30$ right now but on PC you can get for 10$ right now both on Amazon. You can even pay 15$ on Steam and get the entire collection (minus the arcade style game). You don't have to be limited to what you can and cannot do on a PC either. I can't just boot up internet browser on a console and expect it to run everything. I can't just turn on skype and talk to a friend while I work on an essay. PCs are worth the slight extra money at first to be set for the next 5 years. I've had the same gaming PC for a couple years now and all I had to do was crossfire my GPU to get it running games recently to run 1080p max settings. By the time my computer starts giving out I can just swap out the GPU for a more recent one that isn't going to bottleneck my CPU and it will be set for another generation.

 

[McHaggis]

Why yes, the Wii was proof of something indeed. It was proof that you can release a console which is underpowered from Day 1 and still successfuly market it and sell it, the DS was the exact same deal.

Exactly my point. Power isn't everything, it's not what should sell consoles IMO. Obviously, that's not true in all cases, though.

You mean the WiiMote, right?

Well, not really. The Wii had a useless gimmick but not bleeding edge technology. Even the Wii remote was technologically retarded, which is why they had to release the Plus version. What I'm trying to say is "Pick one, gimmick or bleeding edge hardware". Choosing both usually hikes the price beyond what people are willing to pay, as evident in this case.

Processing power does not eye-watering graphics make. If you want to have games released for the system, it has to match the requirements for contemporary and future game engines. The processing power of both the GPU and the CPU go towards not just graphics, but also game logic in general, for example physics or AI. The console also requires a sufficient amount of memory so that the game code, textures, sound and other content can be stored in a fast access area. Needless to say, those things cost.

I was referring to what many common folk look at when buying a games console. Barely any non-nerd gives a flying fuck what engine a game runs on. Also, most contemporary and future game engines are/will be scalable. Those that aren't could be ported to a specific underpowered system if the developers thought it financially feasible (which isn't what I'm arguing). Either way, it's beside the point, game engines do not have to be targeted at bleeding edge technology either (just like graphics).

Because having ten boxes next to your TV is practical. A video game console has more than enough horsepower to support video playback and online streaming and the cost of adding those features is minimal - give me one good reason why it shouldn't have them? It was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Wii's disc drive supports DVD discs and was merely gimped not to do so so that Nintendo doesn't have to pay royalties to the DVD format owners - why? I would gladly pay the extra $5-25 for my unit if it had that feature because I hate clutter.

I also hate clutter, but I like sound and my sound system includes a Blu-Ray player. Even with the XBox One, I couldn't get rid of that box, so I'm not gaining any space by buying one and I'm not benefiting in any way by that feature. Nintendo were justified in their reasons for not including DVD playback (everyone already had a DVD player), although I do think they could have offered a shop purchase to turn the Wii into a DVD player.

To reiterate, I really hate clutter. In my bedroom, I have nothing but a Smart TV, although I'll temporarily stick a console in there from time to time. I stream via Netflix and Plex Media Server and I'm more than happy with that setup.

Not if those features are essential for the operation of the unit itself. If XBox One games or the GUI will use the Kinect 2.0 extensively, be it for voice commands or motion sensing, the device suddenly becomes indispensible. The Wii was bundled with the WiiMotes and the Sensor Bar despite having four perfectly usable Gamecube gamepad connectors - why wasn't the GUI in any way operational without the WiiMote? Should I be upset about that and rave that the system's price was unnecessarily inflated by such a move?

You're interpreting what I'm saying incorrectly. I'm neither upset nor raving, I just think people are justified in their claims that the XBox One is too expensive.

No, becausethe Sensor Bar and the WiiMote were indispensible. Now so is the Kinect 2.0, and the only difference is that it's far more advanced than the Wii's IR Camera + IR diodes combo. I don't have a problem with the Kinect 2.0 being bundled with the system, I just sincerely doubt that it costs $100 on its own.

Exactly again. The Wii Remote retailed for £30 when the Wii first launched, but it probably cost less than a third of that to pack in with the Wii. It probably costs Microsoft much less than $100 to pack in a Kinect. So, given that the PS4 has superior hardware, how does the XBox One justify a further $100? From a consumer's perspective, they're getting the equivalent of a PS4 console plus Kinect when the Kinect system itself sells for more than $100. That's how it seems they're justifying it, but my argument is that many people won't want or even use Kinect even though they want an XBox. I know lots of people with XBox 360s but, out of the relatively few that own a Kinect, none of them make use of it and I doubt any of them would be interested in upgrading it to a Kinect 2.0.

Furthermore, on the same point that you just made, I'm still using the Wii remotes that came with my Wii on my Wii U... Nintendo didn't pack them in and charge me an extra £30 which is probably a more fair and apt comparison to the Kinect 2.0. Granted, the 2.0 can see you winking, but along the same lines the Wii U is compatible with original Wii remotes and doesn't force the upgrade to Plus even though the latter is required for many newer games.

 

[xist]

Looking at the popularity of Xbox sofware it's unlikely that the entry point is liable to put many people off - in the UK at least MS is destroying all comers in shifting games for it's system. Irrespective of what gargantuan mistakes they've made i can't see the Xbone failing as badly as people expect. Yes people would always like a cheaper console but the games are really what matters and it would appear that the Xbox is likely to have them...established user base liable to all abandon ship? Seems unlikely.... -

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/196130/Microsoft_dominates_UK_in_firsthalf_2013_3DS_rallies.php

(And FWIW look at the Vita beating the Wii U in software sales...stealth comment because i was afraid of starting a new topic to discuss this...)

 

[LegendAssassinF]

Can't wait to play all my favourites like "Forza", "Ratchet & Clank", "Jak & Daxter", "Syphon Filter", "inFamous", "Uncharted", "KillZone", "LittleBigPlanet", "Kingdom Hearts", "Resistance", "Gears of War", "Project Gotham Racing", (...goes on and on) OH WAIT!, those are console exclusives*..

Of course everyone is different but in the end of the day MOST "HARDCORE" gamers only care about how well their CoD or BF look not how well their LBP looks. You can easily see from sales that a ton of people only care about those games most games won't pass those unless they are Nintendo lol I was only talking about graphics since you can get away with most of those games not looking life-like because they are mainly great due to gameplay or story even Ratchet & Clank aren't seeing a PS4 release right away with "Into the Nexus".... wait when was the last Syphon Filter game lol

 

[Hells Malice]

My issue is that it's $100 more expensive than the PS4 despite being the weaker console. Sure, that $100 goes towards the Kinect... but why would I want that?

If the Kinect was kept optional, Microsoft could actually price the One competitively on the market. With it made mandatory, however, they are saddled with having the highest price tag of all three consoles by a somewhat wide margin. That can definitely hurt a console at the outset, so I don't think the naysaying is entirely unwarranted.

Microsoft's not going to die and they're not evil, but they're certainly more than capable of making mistakes.

Yeah, no I agree. i think kinect should be optional. There's no point having it other than forcefeeding its features, which are all pointless.
But again, I really, really doubt its going to be such a big thing that people will jump ship to Sony. People who tend to flip flop between the two or have no loyalties will probably go sony if both consoles have good launch titles (or crap launch for both). But the loyal market is much, much bigger than the neutral market. They wont lose much of that loyalty for THAT much of a difference in price. $100 is a lot, but its not the end of the world.

Launch titles will play into this. The lineup will really matter. If the xbone can line some solid titles up, it'll do just fine. But thats sort of a no brainer even if it WAS the price of the PS4. I'd say as long as there's something good to play, it'll be fine though.

So yeah, microsoft can be stupid, but as you said, they wont die.

 

[LegendAssassinF]

(And FWIW look at the Vita beating the Wii U in software sales...stealth comment because i was afraid of starting a new topic to discuss this...)

Only difference is the PSV no has system sellers (Soul Sacrifice is amazing) this year so WiiU should win against that at least lol

 

[xist]

Only difference is the PSV no has system sellers (Soul Sacrifice is amazing) this year so WiiU should win against that at least lol

60% of Vita software sales are digital...factor that in and even with a better lineup i think the Wii U will struggle. Plus system sellers on the horizon for the Wii U seems a bit over optimistic -
Upcoming lineup

Forthcoming European releases -

07/19
The Smurfs 2

07/26
New Super Luigi U
Pikmin 3

07/31
Ashes Cricket 2013

08/23
The Wonderful 101
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Blacklist

08/30
Rayman Legends

10/18
Skylanders Swap Force (Starter Pack)

10/25
Batman: Arkham Origins






The Xbone will be fine...Kinect be damned, even with the scary NSA/MS allegiance. Launch price could be cheaper but the lemmings will march.