Gaming Zero Punctuation: Skyward Sword

Guild McCommunist

(not on boat)
OP
Member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
18,148
Trophies
0
Age
31
Location
The Danger Zone
XP
10,323
Country
United States
As for Demise, I guess I didn't explain my point of view properly.
Having something different than Ganondorf as a final boss was a good thing, IMO. I wouldn't have really cared if they kept Ganondorf as the final boss, but I like changes like that. Brings some variety.

While I agree not having Ganondorf as the villain yet again (which has been the dickslap in the series, especially when they made Zant out to be the main villain of Twilight Princess only for them to go "LOLNO IT'S GANON WHAT DID YOU EXPECT"), Demise/that emo hipster prince aren't exactly intimidated. Demise looks just stupid when he waddles around. Your fight with him for the first time is also incredibly boring. You look at a game like God of War where you take down big ass dudes and it at least looks rather cool. I of course don't expect or want Zelda to be like God of War but c'mon, smacking its feet? Are you serious?

Here's my theory:
  1. He's big
  2. He's scary
  3. They introduced a whole Assassin's Creed ripoff climbing mechanic.
  4. You have an arsenal of random objects to do shit to stuff with.
Why not have Link climb some walls (hell, even HIM) and do some awesome combat shit. I don't need him to be goddamn Kratos but it'd be cool (and give you that sense of omnipotence that people like in generic bosses) if you, a small insignificant kid with a sword, was essentially scaling this all-powerful being and systematically bringing it down bit by bit. Oh, and make you use all the items and skills you've acquired thus far to make it feel like a test of your skill. The game did have the big thing of all your items constantly having use, why not combine them all into a boss fight? Tickling his feet until he starts literally "ROFLing" and then smacking him in the head is by far the lamest way I've seen to take down a behemoth of those proportions.
 
D

Deleted-236924

Guest
As for Demise, I guess I didn't explain my point of view properly.
Having something different than Ganondorf as a final boss was a good thing, IMO. I wouldn't have really cared if they kept Ganondorf as the final boss, but I like changes like that. Brings some variety.

While I agree not having Ganondorf as the villain yet again (which has been the dickslap in the series, especially when they made Zant out to be the main villain of Twilight Princess only for them to go "LOLNO IT'S GANON WHAT DID YOU EXPECT"), Demise/that emo hipster prince aren't exactly intimidated. Demise looks just stupid when he waddles around. Your fight with him for the first time is also incredibly boring. You look at a game like God of War where you take down big ass dudes and it at least looks rather cool. I of course don't expect or want Zelda to be like God of War but c'mon, smacking its feet? Are you serious?

Here's my theory:
  1. He's big
  2. He's scary
  3. They introduced a whole Assassin's Creed ripoff climbing mechanic.
  4. You have an arsenal of random objects to do shit to stuff with.
Why not have Link climb some walls (hell, even HIM) and do some awesome combat shit. I don't need him to be goddamn Kratos but it'd be cool (and give you that sense of omnipotence that people like in generic bosses) if you, a small insignificant kid with a sword, was essentially scaling this all-powerful being and systematically bringing it down bit by bit. Oh, and make you use all the items and skills you've acquired thus far to make it feel like a test of your skill. The game did have the big thing of all your items constantly having use, why not combine them all into a boss fight? Tickling his feet until he starts literally "ROFLing" and then smacking him in the head is by far the lamest way I've seen to take down a behemoth of those proportions.
You make a good point here.
Though I would've thought about Shadow of the Colossus instead of Assassin's Creed, but that's unrelated.
They really should have made the fight more interesting, because it's really just a fight against Girhanhim, but Demise instead, since his style of combat (and his weakness) are the same.
 

KingVamp

Haaah-hahahaha!
Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
13,472
Trophies
2
Location
Netherworld
XP
7,873
Country
United States
Well, you do have a point there. The motion is/was unnecessary. There should've be an option for Analog, Motion or Mixture.
I hope you did mean the whole game because the game wouldn't be the same if you take the motion controls out.
Also ,how can I put this, for a motion game, wouldn't putting analog in places that wouldn't mess up/change up the gameplay
be unnecessary?Other words it works with motion why not put it there.


They're functional but still terrible and its inexcusable to choose them over an analog stick. It made a basic part of the game a nuisance.
Terrible because it doesn't work well or because you just didn't want to do it ?

I'm not even going to reply to what he said, Truly have not play the game yet.,
but I find it weird that have not seen you post anything from him before. It is like you post it because it had Zelda in the title.
What are these games you said you love that he "torn apart".
 

dorayaki95

Well-Known Member
Newcomer
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
50
Trophies
0
XP
138
Country
Malaysia
Im relatively new to zelda series. I have completed twilight princess last september, approximately 1 year and 3 months ago. I have also completed spirit tracks for the DS.

I have never really played ocarina of time, only up to the very early point of the game ( i went into the big tree after obtaining the sword ), so i couldn't judge between skyward sword and ocarina of time.

But if i am to compare Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword will definitely be my choice of game from the gameplay to the story to the overall epicness and graphics. Why?

Skyward Sword has 1:1 full motion of the sword controls, skyloft flying as well as throwing bombs and whipping whips. The story is, oh well, not very unique, but it is good enough compared to most nintendo 1st party games as far as i concerned. Graphics wise, though without HD, but it is surprisingly fluid and after playing skyward sword, Twilight Princess looks ..... dull ( but the lightning in Twilight Princess is somehow a reminiscence of Monster Hunter 3, so maybe we cannot really compare both games' graphics directly )

Oh, and one more thing.

Playing Twilight Princess makes me want to stop playing it and ultimately to turn off my wii. ( maybe it is because of the dull gameplay or dark ambience )
But playing Skyward Sword is the complete flipside of Twilight Princess and the more i play Skyward Sword, the more i am engrossed into the game. And i personally felt that Twilight Princess is so much harder than Skyward Sword ( but everyone in the blogosphere said the complete flipside of mine ) Mine you, i have completed Skyward Sword with very minimal help from IGN LOL
 

Taleweaver

Storywriter
Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
8,684
Trophies
2
Age
43
Location
Belgium
XP
8,062
Country
Belgium
  1. Despite graphical changes, Zelda games have essentially been the same for the last 15 years.
    Story/plot wise, yes. If not, it wouldn't be a Zelda game (I'd like to note that 4-swords is a bit of an exception). Gameplay wise, there's evolution (like the wiimote handling or the stamina thing).
  2. Recent Nintendo games like Kirby's Epic Yarn and New Super Mario Bros. Wii have mostly avoided motion controls while Skyward Sword "bashes you over the head with the Wiimote and say 'REMEMBER THIS!'" (It was a funny quote)
    Those are platformers, this is a 3D adventure game.
  3. Almost every enemy in the game has a directional blocking ability...
    Yes...learning how to properly use the sword is mostly the point of the game.
  4. Which would be fine if it weren't for the control delay, which often leads you hitting an enemy's defenses (which end up punishing you in turn).
    Sorry: it's not the controls that do the delay, but your hand/forearm. We're more used to pressing a button in a split second. In SS, I noticed I tended to use a split second to ready the wiimote before striking in the direction I wanted.
  5. Flying controls are horrid
    Not agreed. However, it strikes me as the controls are almost directly copy-pasted from wii sports resort (the sword handling, bomb bowling and the "paper plane" flying).
  6. Zelda has a personality but little of it
    How could she have personality if she spends most of the game being not there?
  7. Not related to Skyward Sword, but generally Zelda has no personality and is already a princess or loses all personality when she discovers she's a princess
    Could be. Not sure.
  8. How come Skyloft is conceals the ground below in great clouds but when you're on the surface it's bright as day with clear skies around? Not a criticism really, just more of a funny plot hole
    Absolutely true. Stupid how I never even realised that.
  9. Fi is a terrible assist character. She points out the obvious in "spurious rigor" constantly, and the slow text speed makes it worse.
    ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!!!
  10. The harp sections are uninteresting and boring, involving little more than just waving your hand.
    It's clearly a haste job (WTF? Why are people telling me I played amazing when I just played random notes in a certain rhytm? It even sounded horrible!). However, I never liked the music-making parts of other Zelda's, so I'm glad it's easy.
    (they shouldn't have included singing, though. Fi is more busy yawning, and that statue on that island is something from a Monty Python-sequence).
  11. Wind Waker had a large, open world to explore, while Skyward Sword is a lot smaller. Skyloft is basically the main island where you shop and tons of floating rocks with nothing but chests that you have to go to the "underworld" areas to open.
    True. When I think about it, it's just stupid: you already do all the searching below...why don't they reward you directly then instead of having you go to a different location for your prize?
  12. Additionally, these can only be opened by going to the "designated questing areas", so exploration is basically gone. And there's only three of them.
    I can't deny that it's true. What I dislike most about it is that they aren't connected at all.
  13. All the characters seem uninterested in the plot of the game.
    That's a valid criticism for all adventure games. "Oh, you're about to save the world? That's nice...but please mow my lawn first, okay?"
  14. They copy/paste the same boss fight three times. Additionally, two of the dungeons end with the same boss fight that doesn't even involve using the item(s) you've just obtained.
    Kinda true. A bit sad about that, yeah. :-(
  15. The pirate ship area, however, is good.
    Yes...but it wasn't my favorite dungeon.
  16. Overall: Skyward Sword is the worst Zelda game he's ever played in comparison
    That's his opinion. I guess most boils down to the controls, but I can't say for sure.
All in all, I was hoping he would bash SS a bit more. I should probably see that as a good thing, but I like Yahtzee more when he's pointing out the bad parts of a game. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person

CarbonX13

GBAtemp 台灣人
Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
1,399
Trophies
0
Location
Vancouver, B.C.
Website
Visit site
XP
137
Country
Taiwan
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and he makes valid criticisms. Each Zelda title experienced a varying level of criticisms for the changes it makes to the gameplay or graphics (like Wind Waker). Obviously, with motion controls already being a center of hot discussion amongst the gaming community, Skyward Sword inevitably draws more criticism than any other title in the series. The game wasn't likely going to convert haters into lovers in regards to motion gamind; the end result is that the opinions are completely polarized based on whether or not users enjoyed motion controls or not. I, for one, was fine with motion controls that were well-implemented, for instance, and loved Skyward Sword. Others, obviously, have a hatred towards this control scheme, and it's really understandable. Skyward Sword has been the most criticized Zelda title in the series thanks to the more radical changes to fundamental mechanics and designs it makes, from a complete overhaul to the controls to streamlining the puzzle-solving experience out of the dungeons and into the overworld surrounding it. Some people don't like the changes, saying it detracts from what makes the series so iconic and special.

I do not agree with this guy's criticisms; I loved almost every aspect of Skyward Sword, and consider it to be the best game in the Zelda series. It felt fresh and different, with the controls working perfectly fine roughly 95% of the time, allowing for a more immersive combat experience.Sure, it has its share of things that could be better, such as the awful skydiving mechanics or harp motion controls. Other parts the layout of the Sky (to feature more islands) feel like they didn't reach their potential, but I'd argue it's due to the hardware limitations of the console at hand here. In a nutshell, the was one of the most enjoyable Zelda experience I've had. I'd rank it far ahead of Twilight Princess, the entry I absolutely loathed because I found the setting to be quite dull. It seems that most of the people that hate Skyward Sword love Twilight Princess, and vice versa. Some prefer the darker tone of TP, while others like the bright and vibrant world of SS. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and that doesn't change here either.
 
D

Deleted-236924

Guest
It seems that most of the people that hate Skyward Sword love Twilight Princess, and vice versa. Some prefer the darker tone of TP, while others like the bright and vibrant world of SS. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and that doesn't change here either.
I beg to differ.
I liked both Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword (And still do.)
 

Guild McCommunist

(not on boat)
OP
Member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
18,148
Trophies
0
Age
31
Location
The Danger Zone
XP
10,323
Country
United States
Terrible because it doesn't work well or because you just didn't want to do it ?

I'm not even going to reply to what he said, Truly have not play the game yet.,
but I find it weird that have not seen you post anything from him before. It is like you post it because it had Zelda in the title.
What are these games you said you love that he "torn apart".

For the first part, both.

EDIT: Engineering an innovative motion control game isn't about putting it everywhere so you're forced to use it, it's about putting it in places where you'd want to use it because it's superior or absolutely necessary. Let me draw a parallel between Skyward Sword's unnecessary motion controls and PSP FPS/TPS games. Does the control scheme (typically movement with analog nub, axis movement with face buttons) work? Yes. Does it necessarily work better than an analog stick? Absolutely not. The same goes for all those dumb swimming controls, skydiving controls, and flying controls. Honestly, if the game kept motion controls isolated to swordplay and a few items (like the whip, for instance), then I'd champion the game as being innovative. I'm not shitting you there, it would've done something to introduce motion controls as superior in some areas and step away from the typical "gimmick" image it has been getting. But putting it everywhere basically made it gimmicky. The Wii has an analog stick. Use it.

For the second part, most of his reviews are irrelevant to GBAtemp's opinion. Well, they are, but I'm usually too late to post them. I only started religiously following him recently (as in the past month or two). I have however used some of his videos to bolster my opinions (such as his 3DS and Ocarina of Time review which I feel touched on a lot of issues I have presented before).

I also just wanted to rile up some good conversation. I definitely don't think it's the worst Zelda game, I have said it's an incredibly well designed game with great ideas, just brought down by a bunch of issues (mostly small, some large). The review just seemed to touch on a lot of criticisms that I've found personally and heard from others around here so I thought it'd be worth discussing.

You're obviously trying to say "OH GUILD'S TROLLING" and I'll obviously say I'm not.

As for games that I've "loved" that he's torn apart, in most recent memory I'd take Alice: Madness Returns. It was one of the few games I followed religiously and one of my favorite games of the year. Definitely not the best 3D platformer I've ever played but it was incredibly interesting and I loved the art.

Other games:
  • Saint's Row The Third
  • Castlevania
  • Portal 2
  • Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood
  • Red Dead Redemption
  • Red Steel 2
  • Borderlands
Probably more as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person

FIX94

Former Staff
Former Staff
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
7,284
Trophies
0
Age
29
Location
???
XP
11,238
Country
Germany
My opinion:

1. Despite graphical changes, Zelda games have essentially been the same for the last 15 years.
Yeah sure, it's a series.
2. Recent Nintendo games like Kirby's Epic Yarn and New Super Mario Bros. Wii have mostly avoided motion controls while Skyward Sword "bashes you over the head with the Wiimote and say 'REMEMBER THIS!'" (It was a funny quote)
LOL yeah finally they use wii motion plus and it's just great
3. Almost every enemy in the game has a directional blocking ability...
So? I don't see a problem there.
4. Which would be fine if it weren't for the control delay, which often leads you hitting an enemy's defenses (which end up punishing you in turn).
Delay? I never had a problem with delay.
5. Flying controls are horrid
Well, you need skill, but as soon as you did it a while it just works great.
6. Zelda has a personality but little of it
Welcome to The Legend of Zelda.
7. Not related to Skyward Sword, but generally Zelda has no personality and is already a princess or loses all personality when she discovers she's a princess
Yep, see 6.
8. How come Skyloft is conceals the ground below in great clouds but when you're on the surface it's bright as day with clear skies around? Not a criticism really, just more of a funny plot hole
It's a game.
9. Fi is a terrible assist character. She points out the obvious in "spurious rigor" constantly, and the slow text speed makes it worse.
First valid point in my opinion.
10. The harp sections are uninteresting and boring, involving little more than just waving your hand.
Yep second valid point.
11. Wind Waker had a large, open world to explore, while Skyward Sword is a lot smaller. Skyloft is basically the main island where you shop and tons of floating rocks with nothing but chests that you have to go to the "underworld" areas to open.
It's a bit small, there your right. But it's OK for the story.
12. Additionally, these can only be opened by going to the "designated questing areas", so exploration is basically gone. And there's only three of them.
I still havent got all of them, so you need to search for it.
13. All the characters seem uninterested in the plot of the game.
LOL
14. They copy/paste the same boss fight three times. Additionally, two of the dungeons end with the same boss fight that doesn't even involve using the item(s) you've just obtained.
No problem with it that you fight 3 times against the same boss, shows how dangerous he is.
15. The pirate ship area, however, is good.
Yep :lol:
16. Overall: Skyward Sword is the worst Zelda game he's ever played in comparison.
Nah, it was a really good zelda game in my opinion, the story was alright for zelda games and the boss fights were really good.
So, do you think these are valid criticisms?
Not really.
 

prowler

Sony
Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
9,475
Trophies
2
Location
Ragol
XP
3,294
Country
Zimbabwe
I agree with most things he said, Skyward Sword is definitely a weak entry to the Zelda series.

Pirate Ship and the stuff leading up to it is cool. I loved the rollercoaster thing, even though you didn't need to do much. Probably the best area in the game that actually has some originality to it.
 

Chrono Cross

Member
Newcomer
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
22
Trophies
0
XP
60
Country
United States
I know the thread is a couple of days old now but I just wanted to say thanks Guild for telling me about this guy. I agree with a lot of what he says about games, not all, but a fair amount. Which is a relief because I was starting to think that I was just too demanding and overly cynical.
 

PolloDiablo

Madre de Dios! Es El POLLO DIABLO!!!
Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
3,858
Trophies
2
XP
2,932
Country
United States
zzzZZZzZzzzZ boring
he said that Zelda games have essentially been the same for the last 15 years...
well, all of his reviews are the same... talk shit about everything no matter what
 

Guild McCommunist

(not on boat)
OP
Member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
18,148
Trophies
0
Age
31
Location
The Danger Zone
XP
10,323
Country
United States
zzzZZZzZzzzZ boring
he said that Zelda games have essentially been the same for the last 15 years...
well, all of his reviews are the same... talk shit about everything no matter what

Explain to me outside of level designs how Zelda games have not been the same since Ocarina of Time (excluding your 2D handheld games)? They're incredibly formulaic and adhere to the same basic rules and principles without much change.
 

DarkSzero

Well-Known Member
Newcomer
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
75
Trophies
0
Location
Brazil
Website
Visit site
XP
93
Country
Brazil
  1. Despite graphical changes, Zelda games have essentially been the same for the last 15 years.
  2. Recent Nintendo games like Kirby's Epic Yarn and New Super Mario Bros. Wii have mostly avoided motion controls while Skyward Sword "bashes you over the head with the Wiimote and say 'REMEMBER THIS!'" (It was a funny quote)
  3. Almost every enemy in the game has a directional blocking ability...
  4. Which would be fine if it weren't for the control delay, which often leads you hitting an enemy's defenses (which end up punishing you in turn).
  5. Flying controls are horrid
  6. Zelda has a personality but little of it
  7. Not related to Skyward Sword, but generally Zelda has no personality and is already a princess or loses all personality when she discovers she's a princess
  8. How come Skyloft is conceals the ground below in great clouds but when you're on the surface it's bright as day with clear skies around? Not a criticism really, just more of a funny plot hole
  9. Fi is a terrible assist character. She points out the obvious in "spurious rigor" constantly, and the slow text speed makes it worse.
  10. The harp sections are uninteresting and boring, involving little more than just waving your hand.
  11. Wind Waker had a large, open world to explore, while Skyward Sword is a lot smaller. Skyloft is basically the main island where you shop and tons of floating rocks with nothing but chests that you have to go to the "underworld" areas to open.
  12. Additionally, these can only be opened by going to the "designated questing areas", so exploration is basically gone. And there's only three of them.
  13. All the characters seem uninterested in the plot of the game.
  14. They copy/paste the same boss fight three times. Additionally, two of the dungeons end with the same boss fight that doesn't even involve using the item(s) you've just obtained.
  15. The pirate ship area, however, is good.
  16. Overall: Skyward Sword is the worst Zelda game he's ever played in comparison.
Here's what I think about each point:
  1. Depending on what you call "essentially the same", there's no way a sequel can be different than the previous while still being a sequel. Metroid Prime and Super Metroid are two completelly different games that I could argue they're "essentially the same".
  2. Mario Galaxy 1 had some "HAVE SOME MOTION CONTROL" moments and is still incredibily awesome. (However, using motion as a button is something I preffer not having...)
  3. This is actually something interesting. Since everywhere enemies block your attacks, while you progressively gets better at attacking correctly and the enemies blocking faster. This leads to fights in the end that are hard but you pass through like they're nothing. (In other words, it leads to a super smooth difficult curve)
  4. If the delay can affect you so badly while PLAYING the game, you're doing something wrong. In my 40+ hours playing SS, I wasn't bothered by the delay not even once.
  5. Horrid, stupid and pointless. There's almost no reason to be flying around, but I'm also kinda glad because it's tiring. Motion does NOT fit with long distance movement scheme.
  6. Don't really care, so does Nintendo apparently. They could improve this...
  7. See 6.
  8. Never noticied this. Indeed it's odd, however easily dismissed as an acceptable break from reality
  9. Unskippable slow text is annoying, along with useless messages ("You've arrived at X, master." just after the zone introduction. wat/)
  10. Indeed, the harp was there simply to fit the "Zelda games must have an instrument" rule, and managed to do everything wrong with it.
  11. Wind Waker had a huge ocean that was boring to explore. It may have had hidden things, but I would never explore it all. I like the supposed lack of an "open empty hub" (however the sky acts as this in my opinion)
  12. These three underground areas becomes fairly big at the end of the game. It would be perfect if they were connected, but, well, they aren't.
  13. Boring, but whatever.
  14. Other people would just say that the "The boss must be defeated using the item you've just obtained" is boring. I found the sword fights amazing and would've wanted more.
  15. It was different and interesting.
  16. It's fairly well with enought fun and too much fetch quests. Gotta replay it one day.
 

BrightNeko

Popcorn ball
Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
915
Trophies
0
Age
31
Location
Texas
Website
Visit site
XP
389
Country
United States
1. Yes and no. They change it up a little but it plays the same. Just like every other shooter, sports game , and so on they stay fundamentally the same. People bitch about this and people let it go.
2. yep
3. yep
4. and? I got better at reading them and doing the sword motions so did not bother me.
5. god yes they are
6. we hardly see her so duh?
7. yes it is a general thing since spirit tracks breaks that. Wind waker just kind of brushed her to the side. An minish cap she didn't stick around long enough to loose her bounciness
8. ITS ALWAYS DAY TIME THERE IS NO SUN THIS IS WHY WE CAN NEVER GO AT NIGHT O_O ITS THE TRUTH!!
9. yep
10. kind of
11. well it makes sense in the context the story does say one main island after all, it is however very lame.
12. milk
13. aren't they usually?
14. milk (I blame time, they probably didn't want another TP where they ended up delaying the game again and again just to put it on the wii u or something. )
15. MIIIIIIIIIIILK
16. I like it really, it isn't horrible but as a zelda game it isn't the next wind waker (my personal favorite) and sits pretty low on the chain.

All and all it isn't worth 40$ unless your a hard core fan, and that's just because it explains alot. Otherwise price drop central >_> but with the way the game is getting raved about I doubt it will be soon.
 

PolloDiablo

Madre de Dios! Es El POLLO DIABLO!!!
Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
3,858
Trophies
2
XP
2,932
Country
United States
zzzZZZzZzzzZ boring
he said that Zelda games have essentially been the same for the last 15 years...
well, all of his reviews are the same... talk shit about everything no matter what
Explain to me outside of level designs how Zelda games have not been the same since Ocarina of Time (excluding your 2D handheld games)? They're incredibly formulaic and adhere to the same basic rules and principles without much change.
Im not arguing with that... Zelda games tends to follow the same formula everytime.
Im just saying that this so-called "reviewer" complains about that, when he is doing the exact same thing with his "reviews"
 

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
    K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2: Sorry for accidentally bending over