ROM Hack RELEASE Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Name De-Localization

[Tsukiru]

The problem is that by using "they/them" they are explicitly focusing on identity. Again: when a normal person in real life sees what is clearly a woman or girl the expected reaction is to say "she." The "they/them" sticks out like a sore thumb when used directly in front of a female looking person who does not specfically say that she doesn't want to be referred as she but they. The natural reaction in real life is to assume it's a woman if it looks like a woman. Using "they/them" the first moment you meet someone is not what normal people do in real life but what Twitter users do on Twitter. Real life is not Twitter... And the game world should not mimic Twitter either.


That's another story all together. When said person insists to be called "they/them" in real life I respect their feelings and do so after being corrected. But I don't go through real life in Twitter mode. Statistically alone there is a astronomically higher probability that a woman I don't know identifies as she and not they.

That's why it is so weird seeing these characters act like Twitter users (using they/them the moment they meet someone). They don't behave like people in real life, but like Twitter users, that's what I meant.

What's even weirder is how Yuzuriha is the only one who they call "they/them," no? How comes? Did the main characters check her Twitter bio?

That's my criticism about the localization choice.

You're just repeating yourself saying the same non-points and whining about "Twitter users" while addressing nothing I said. Many people have approached with using they/them, it doesn't matter if you personally never saw or heard of it. Many forms and websites also have options for pronouns. I also just flat out exist in real life. This didn't just start on Twitter.

I've told you at least 3 times the intention in Japanese is unknown, they don't talk about it, and if you are to carry that intention you best use they/them. The non-gendered terms, which illustrate it not being known. Just using "they/them" isn't "explicitly focusing on identity". Again, you haven't played it so you have no clue what they focus on. A game that can extend for like hours and your "immersion" is so fragile it cracks at "they/them" and not understanding why that's necessary from the matter of language.

And "why is it only Yuzuriha" like I didn't bring up other Heroes or how they are either already known to the players or have other company. Next you'll tell me you don't know that Colony Tau is mostly secluded. Almost like you haven't played the game you're trying to critique.

Its none of your business why they use they/them. If you can believe in a world where people can summon Blades and merge into a Kaiju sized monster, you should have a little room for One Character using pronouns that don't match your expectations. You seem to just have a weird hostility against the gender neutral pronouns despite their necessity for situations like this. "I won't use they/them out of principle" only makes it sound like your principle is being petty and edging on transphobic. An actual aversion from the topic for no good reason. Plenty of real people have good consideration and use they/them. Again doesn't matter if you never encountered it. You're never going to speak for all people or "real people". "Statistically" they exist and it doesn't matter if they're the majority or minority. You can't seem to wrap your head around "they're using they/them because the gender is unknown" and keep telling yourself "it's for identity politics and an agenda" based on nothing but your own already existing beliefs.

It doesn't matter if they appear feminine to you, it doesn't matter about "well statistically". The Japanese website and game does not address them as a woman as it does with other characters. The game does not have a moment of "wait I thought you were a girl" and it would be in poor tastes to use "she/her" when it is purposely unknown. No one is out there randomly picking a character and saying "this one will be nonbinary!" like a mastermind. You made up an enemy in your head that does this. In the real world, far more likely the team saw that vagueness, asked, and realized it's best to keep it by using gender neutral terms. Again, neat to not acknowledge Japanese forums were even asking about Yuzuriha's gender. You conveniently just stuck to your own anecdotes about how you perceive it and not address anything I'm telling you about the game you HAVEN'T PLAYED and discussions in other languages. Go ahead and not address how you already know (because I keep saying it) that there wouldn't be a need for a scene in Japanese where they would talk about their identity or pronouns. It's a far worse decision to ruin the vagueness of Japanese and insist "well they look feminine so she/her". But that would mean even actually addressing the Japanese discussion that you should actually care about if you're gonna go "this was forced by the localizers!" but seemingly you don't care about any real "principles".

Boo-hoo, you feel your immersion break because of two words. Think that should tell you to rethink how you view the world, not that there's some "agenda" about "identity politics" is making very minor changes. Reread this as much as you want, because I'm not repeating myself again or wasting my time with you anymore.

Your "criticism" is based on nothing but a sad "culture war" for a game you haven't played about a character you don't know and referencing about hypothetical "Twitter people" you clearly don't know or understand in the first place. And your one joke about "did they check their Twitter bio" is not funny the first time nor will it be the 99th.

Hope you and rsc here can eventually learn some self-awareness for what nonsense you go on about. For a game you Haven't Played and still say "it's all about identity!" based on One Thing, not even a change, you heard about. It's absurd and stupid to die on that hill and conveniently not address anything else outside a really pathetic laugh reaction. The sign of someone who truly cares and not just pathetic scoffing from someone whose head is too far up.

 

[moonblood666]

And "why is it only Yuzuriha" like I didn't bring up other Heroes or how they are either already known to the players or have other company. Next you'll tell me you don't know that Colony Tau is mostly secluded. Almost like you haven't played the game you're trying to critique.

*shrug* That doesn't answer my question. Pray tell, do these characters in the game refer to everyone they meet and don't know as they/them before getting to know them? If the answer is no, then what makes Yuzuriha so special. Does she have some smell? A "they/them" aura the party can see? Did they find out secretly that Yuzuriha prefers the they/them pronouns? What makes her special in comparison to other characters you meet and don't know at first?

Its none of your business why they use they/them. If you can believe in a world where people can summon Blades and merge into a Kaiju sized monster, you should have a little room for One Character using pronouns that don't match your expectations.

Oh it is my business. If a story decision is illogical to me, I mean this is a plothole (as I said, why just Yuzuriha when surely they refer to other characters the didn't know before with he/she) the localization introduced after all, I have the right to criticize said plothole.

It's not about my expectations but writing choices that seem straight out of the localizer's little social media bubble.

You seem to just have a weird hostility against the gender neutral pronouns despite their necessity for situations like this.

In a translation from Japanese to English the only necessity is when a character is masked or when they talk about someone they didn't meet yet. If Yuzuriha told them to say "they/them" that would be another story, but she didn't.

Again, unless the character isn't specifically depicted that way 99.9% of all existing translations would refer to the character with the pronouns he or she depending on how the character appears. Japanese often omits gender specific pronouns or even the subject in a sentence. Most translators simply assume it's a man or a woman and translate accordingly. Yuzuriha isn't the first time a character has no gender specific pronouns used... In fact it's the norm, not the exception in Japanese as I said before to omit such terms.

"I won't use they/them out of principle" only makes it sound like your principle is being petty and edging on transphobic.

I expected a sentence like this. So Yuzuriha is now trans?

I refuse to use the "they/them" pronouns because I consider this localization choice localizer fan fiction. Unless Takahashi states otherwise it's completely made up. That's why I refuse to use the pronouns. Not because I disrespect the LGBT community (I even stated before that I'd use "they/them" in RL if a person told me so and respect their feelings), but because I don't respect these localizers and their made up fan fiction!

It doesn't matter if they appear feminine to you, it doesn't matter about "well statistically".

Oh statistics do matter. If the statistical probability is 99.99% that someone I meet identifies as "she" and 0.01% that they consider themselves "they" it' simply defies all logic to go with the lower probability choice. I can't believe I need to explain this.

when it is purposely unknown.

You are implying a purpose when you don't know that there was a purpose behind it. I said so before, Japanese oftentimes omits assigning gender specific pronouns. Unless Takahashi states so in an interview this is nothing but you baseless assumption.

 

[MasterJ360]

Yikes what happen to this thread? its just a name mod using the original JPN appearance. Ppl do this kind of mod all the time especially in Smash Bros. If you don't like it then dont use it lol

 

[Tsukiru]

Yikes what happen to this thread? its just a name mod using the original JPN appearance. Ppl do this kind of mod all the time especially in Smash Bros. If you don't like it then dont use it lol

Nothing actually in relation to the mod for 2 or complaining about the existence of this mod. I actually used it as well as similar mods for Smash (like Japanese Aegises or Japanese Sora on a specific color).

 

[LeyendaV]

Any chance of having only the places restored and not the characters?

 

[Niko_of_Death]

Well I guess this is a good time as ever for a brief update

XB2
v2 should be in progress later in the year, earlier if the bugs of v1 are too much for people.
We also have a rough alpha of Torna DLC that required some questionable script hacking to work, not sure if I can throw up since it has to be the whole ard.
At the inception of the mod I kind of envisioned having a 'Lite' version that handled only names and a 'Heavy' version that was one step before a full, and contentious, rewrite (Blushy-Crushy vs moe, Orphion vs Serpent, Fiora vs Fiorung etc).
The person who originally handled the bdat process has always had such a busy schedule that rapid iteration was an impossibility for one, let alone two versions. But now that I've finally took it upon myself to figure it out and establish a 'pipeline', the project can recommence. And in doing so, I decided to take a crack at 3.

XB3
A mod should be possible but how soon is totally up in the air.
The same DLC hack for 2 works to allow bdats of larger sizes, however the format of the bdat has changed from 2/DE meaning larger strings will most likely require entire data table restructuring. If anyone loves hex editing please feel free to help me slam my head against a wall.
If the bdat format somehow does get reverse-engineered, this mod will probably also have two flavors: one smaller for names and locations, one larger one for side-characters, spark/snuff, etc. These are all obviously subjective changes so the more feedback, the better.

If you do make multiple versions I'd highly request one with Nia instead of Niyah, that change drives me insane.

 

[archerboy]

Any chance of having only the places restored and not the characters?

If you do make multiple versions I'd highly request one with Nia instead of Niyah, that change drives me insane.

I might actually put together a simple batch script that lets you pick and chose from various presets (Names, Locations, Change to Niyah, Change to Fiorung, etc) - since it seems like the game is okay without re-encrypting the bdats. But don't quote me on that

 

[Idaten]

So there's already a X3 patch in work? Can I help you somehow?

 

[cai_miao]

I don't think it is a good idea to de-localize any names except for characters... personally.

 

[Tsukiru]

I personally kept losing track when it came to countries, probably due to having the English versions already memorized in comparison. Not due to the mod's fault obviously but other people would probably be better at keeping that all in mind.

 

[Cyan]

I started playing X3 in french today, and I can't stand these spark/snuff words...
spark has been translated to Braise (ember/incandescent charcoal), and Brasier (Big fire)
snuff, to Moucher (they kept the english word)
Mudder, to Bouseux (they also kept the reference to being unclean, except bouse is cow's shit)
Muppet ? There are the muppet's show in that game ? I didn't read anything about that yet, but I'm getting myself warned.
they sometime mix the terms, like "brasier de moucheux" (that's NOT EVEN A WORD !!), I suppose english has "spark of snuffers" ?

It could feel like their own dialect, but if you have Japanese dub you clearly hear the words they are supposed to tell, and it's not dialect at all.
Well, I understand Kuso, teme, etc. in the dub, so I do real-time replacement when reading these absurdities.

I've read that it's the Japanese team's fault, they provided that "english modified version" as "IV" (International Version) to the translators, and they were forced to keep these words and not replace with meaningful ones. So the problem is in all localizations, and we will need a patch in all languages
I even wondered if there were a parental control option in the game... Like two translation versions, one with swears and one without... but no, that's just plain bad choice from Nintendo/Monolith !! it's just plain horrible. I can't enjoy the game as much as I did with previous ones.
I hope there will be a patch, but by the time it's released I would have probably completed the game. same for most people interested in that game. and each new update/DLC will probably require a new patch version.
But if there's at least a delocalization for names, that would be nice !

There are also other little things bothering me, along with sparks and name changing, like some Nopon word style.
It feels like this is a new translation team and they didn't share the old database between translators

I didn't notice or reach the part where the gender is questioned yet. I hope they didn't used "iel" either. it's "new invented french pronoun for non-gender" added in dictionary this year... it's so ugly ! even worse, following words (and all french words) are gendered dependent and accorded ! it's either male of female, there's no "non-gendered" way to speak french.

 

[Fararagi]

Save us from another garbage localization from NOA please...

Their shit even end up tainting the European versions that have to use the same retarded terms, they all need to be fired and blacklisted from this industry forever.

What's called "localization" is basically a mix of xenophobia and censorship with a sprinkle of fanction written by immature children at this point, don't know why Americans just hate every other culture.

 

[Tsukiru]

Nintendo of Europe has been doing the localization for 1, 2, and likely 3. British people I know find the dialogue way more natural than 2, though at the cost of accent variety. So whining about Americans is wrong, stupid and irrelevant. What happened with X was a few costumes to avoid controversy and yes the extremely weird removal of the Breast Slider. But not sure you're gonna ask a British team to localize a game taking many elements from America. It is called New LA after all. Vice versa applies, making your game take on the aesthetic of Europe but done entirely by Americans doesn't sound right. I mean, it literally wouldn't. Very common to have British people online complain about that sort of thing.

Similarly, this talk of "xenophobia" and "hate every other culture" is baseless and stupid. Director of Nintendo's Japanese division, Genki Yokota, has already said that all teams meet up and creators are always involved back in 2017. If anyone would be concerned and not want a change, it would be them. Every time this is brought up it sounds like "well the localizers LIE and they just don't know better" which is just... bad. Because then it sounds like they need you guys to defend them. There's been multiple cases of Japanese creators speaking up for themselves when their message or product gets messed with. Again, it's far more likely that they questioned the vagueness and addressed it as best they could rather than this "fanfiction" you keep parroting. Not to mention Yokota also states "We’re really building [the game] as we’re in discussion" which matches similar statements from Intelligent Systems for 3 Houses and likely just seems a common attitude among developers. They're far more invested in getting their story out there to a wider market. You may not like it or find it necessary, but neither you or I speak for an entire market or have whatever data Nintendo or Monolith have. Safe to say, I think their decisions are probably more well informed than anything you say when you incorrectly bring up NoA for some reason. Wow, another person who doesn't know what they're talking about! Where it only seems the best evidence is just one publication using kanojo... Which isn't a lot. No other website uses it, and any other page with Yuzuriha and kanojo referred to other characters like Eunie or Alexandria. Very nice no one addresses that it's likely vague and making a choice just because "well they look feminine" would kind of ruin that. Or you think "no Japanese game would ever have this in it, it has to be forced" which is also wrong. Plenty of Japanese media where such characters exist and aren't the focus. They just exist. Like people do.

The only immature children in this discussion is you types repeating about "xenophobia" to fill your ego. Changing things for a different market isn't inherently out of dislike. Nor does the game actually change the cultural context of much. Like Agnus's whole theme is being more Japanese oriented to contrast with Keves. That is the whole theming of the game. You could argue that the Britishification is kind of weird but it's been one of the acclaimed things of the Wii original and a thing missed when X focused on being American. More than likely they are already aware of it and approve of the decision, again being at the table at least 3 times now. And between the silent approval (and repeated) instances from a developer and co, compared to people rely on a fake conspiracy to claim "identity politics" for a game they haven't played to even judge if that happens (a singular screenshot of using they/them as something to be mad at is absolutely laughable), I'm taking the silent approval. Unless you for some reason don't even trust staff comments or believe you should be upset on their behalf and project your feelings onto them. The same staff you're supposedly keep their intent alive, but what if their intent was to support this? Or is that suddenly a wrong thought because you don't like it. Or you think localizers secretly added this one based on... Nothing? There's no basis beyond you just "feel" like localizers have an agenda, every single one of them, and it is always "I dislike their culture." Which isn't how real people work, nor is it a good thing to base your principles on. Again, it's not guest chatacter with only one known use of they/them that people spread around. Nothing showing "they made them nonbinary" or "made or all about identity". Like this doesn't make sense when you lay it out, but Someone isn't reading and is just going to laugh at themselves instead of risk critical thinking. Genuine and well-meaning people sure do laugh to themselves against genuine opposition.

Goes without saying, I'm not saying you can't dislike localization choices. Again, fake swears is weird when they still include real ones. Just this specific angle about it is stupid, baseless, delusional, and unhelpful. There's a difference between not liking a change and parroting some grand conspiracy about an entire industry based on a handful of examples always as your default response, even when it doesn't apply. Also not saying this mod or similar isn't useful. It is! In fact shows one of the larger flaws of localization, leaving subtitles for only one audio track but not matching terms from another. 1, 2, and 3 only came with English and Japanese, and the names can vary wildly so it feels like a bad oversight. Especially when the game can properly show voice actors based on the audio track? I also have to assume credits at the start of the game are updated too. So why not the names they're saying to match?

I don't see anyone arguing on behalf of Crash Bandicoot's changes in Japan. Or is it different when they do it? No, the answer is no. It's not some weird conspiracy from localizers or the woke mob, it's just how the industry works. Unless you think "they" are somehow good enough to get a job and also for some reason think just one pronoun change is going to change anything. The market is far more than just people super into anime like people here. Not like any of the anime aspects were toned down in 3 anyways. But I guess that requires people to have played the game and not just repeat what they hear online.

I'm repeating myself (again [again]) (hi rsc, being useless even in the face of staff quotes, huh?) so I'm probably going to avoid this thread, which means can't comment on the progress or bugs should something happen. Hope things go smoothly, and outside of side quests, be sure to watch out for the conversation around the World Tree after the Pneuma cutscene. Due to it being one of the text bubble cutscenes, it got skipped at least with v2. Though probably more likely for the issue to be resolved entirely.

 

[rsc-pl]

What's called "localization" is basically a mix of xenophobia and censorship with a sprinkle of fanction written by immature children at this point, don't know why Americans just hate every other culture.

Yup, I was always saying this, but many people didn't understand it in the past. But as you see, it's not just Americans.

 

[.Darky]

Wow, this Tsukiru guy, seriously. The emotion behind his posts is really something, obsessive even. The point of this patch is to reverse questionable localization name changes, so in the thread itself one would logically expect to find posts criticizing the changes in Xenoblade games or localization practices in general. What were you honestly expecting when coming here, seriously?

 

[Tsukiru]

Wow, this Tsukiru guy, seriously. The emotion behind his posts is really something, obsessive even. The point of this patch is to reverse questionable localization name changes, so in the thread itself one would logically expect to find posts criticizing the changes in Xenoblade games or localization practices in general. What were you honestly expecting when coming here, seriously?

Tired of being confused from 10 different names in a scene with only 5 people?

Not really about "questionable localization changes," but matching names to Japanese audio. The effect would be similar but the intent is different.

I don't know how you get "what did you expect coming here" like I'm against talking about the choices done when I've already said "I'm not saying you can't dislike localization choices," especially when I've mentioned my own critiques or failings of efforts in the past. Unless you're just deliberately taking away nothing and think "post too long, lol." I'm sorry for having detailed thoughts and actually searching things about this topic is "obsessive," but yes when people keep repeating a baseless idea of the industry with the confidence of a peacock, you would show a bit of emotion. God forbid I put in some effort into it. Especially when it goes against staff comments or is unrelated like mentioning NoA (There are two credits for NOA producers, totaling to 6 including NOE. Not including the 27 credited translators). Nor are there any real critiques. Spark and snuff are bad (things I've said and agree with!), but all I've seen is one use of "they" and people who haven't played the game say it's "identity politics" and "fanfiction" when multiple people wouldn't didn't notice it at all. Nor is just calling name changes cringe, what exactly is the criticism there?

You have an extremely good topic here (localization changes and lacking subtitles for the Japanese/original audio) and you're just going about it the worst way possible. Which is my actual problem, because there is a difference between discussing localization and just spewing bull. Of course I'm gonna speak my mind when I see people spew bull en masse. Like I don't think the British effort has landed since the Wii/DE, or think Drakengard 3's approach to its main character is kind of unfunny (which also doesn't match with the Japanese audio [which was paid DLC for some reason]). If we lived in a slightly better world, it'd be really common to have subtitles and dialogue reflect at least the original audio track and I'm hoping that happens eventually. But if you go into "they made them all about identity" you're just shadow boxing a situation that isn't there. And that's bad. No one talks about Juniper's identity. The only claim to being nonbinary is an article from One Person and people who are upset at One Screenshot. Do you not see how this is frustrating? A perfectly fine game is needlessly tossed into the culture war blender and for no real benefit. Of course I'm going to be a little upset. Made worse by people repeating themselves with non-points and extrapolating shit from thin air. Think it's far more questionable to call of "banning from the industry" compared to... me explaining my thoughts as detailed as I can. Like someone trying to actually discuss would do? Or is the bar for being "obsessive" just having a genuine interest and thoughts about a topic? Did you expect this subject to just be plain and simple? What were YOU expecting when coming here, seriously?

You can say you find the choices are odd (I'd likely agree!) but don't say they're xenophobic when staff says outright creators are always there and happen to develop games with larger audiences in mind.

 

[.Darky]

This fucking guy... some people have too much free time on their hands, seriously. No sane person would bother reading your ramblings at this point.

Anyway, I'm glad this is still being worked on and the DLC patch is now a possibility, TC, thanks a lot for your work. Playing this with the localized names while using Japanese audio would've been jarring and a less enjoyable experience.

 

[Tsukiru]

"No sane person would bother reading your ramblings at this point," no you don't have to lie. You weren't reading nor going to in the first place, it's painfully obvious. Whatever happened to "find posts criticizing the changes in Xenoblade games or localization practices in general," or did you conveniently decide it's rambling now when it came to a nuanced topic and how it's discussed. God forbid I try to address everything you said while you give just zero effort, huh? Sounds to me you never sincerely cared to discuss it from the start, just enjoyed the nice echo "localization bad" got you without any real effort. You types never fail to show how disingenuous, vapid and unproductive you are. Up until inconvenient things like staff interviews showed up, that is.

I'll have to start jingling keys just to keep your attention next time.

 

[Spiritshaker]

I think at some point, dedicating paragraphs upon paragraphs of conscious "effort" is going to leave people confused.

 

[joekree]

thanks for the effort OP, i agree the they/them bullshit needs to go.
quite a lot of sentence structures have changed in the localization, beyond just the swear words and brit slang. not sure if this is out of the scope for your mod but touching up on those would be cool too